Is Your Pool Green?

[Anthony5]

Looks to me as if it is nothing more than a total lack of regular normal maintenance including maybe even a lack of backwashing/rinsing the filter system.

Test strips are not very accurate and they are expensive. A simple pH & Cl test kit for baht 200 (some pool shops selling them for a LOT more) would do all you need to understand the basic additions of chemicals such as chlorine and pH Minus until perhaps the pool reveals more detailed problems that need to be addressed, Very murky water also first needs to be clarified using a flocculant, and some of these products are marketed by pool shops at exhorbitant prices. Sometimes it's actually cheaper to drain the pool, give it a good clean and start over with a fresh fill and than keep it properly maintained.

A basic testkit, as the one you describe in your post, test for pH and TOTAL chlorine only which is useless since it is the FREE chlorine that sanitizes your water.

You can measure a high level of total chlorine in your pool, while the chlorine is not effective because the level of combined chlorine ( also called chloramine) is too high.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Anthony5

[Chaichara]

A basic testkit, as the one you describe in your post, test for pH and TOTAL chlorine only which is useless since it is the FREE chlorine that sanitizes your water.

We know. But a basic tesk kit is perfect for BASIC testing, especially for domestic pools and doing some first checks on a new fill. Any other testing equipment may possibly work out significantly more expensive, and particularly budget conscious pool owners will know that it might not be necessary to launch into high cost testing equipment right from the outset especially when one can apparently buy stuff six times cheaper in some other country.

[billphillips]

It's not unusual at the start of the rainy season for pools to go green. A pool pro would know that. It's to do with the additional acid content accumulating in the pool water. Once the water is green, the normal level of chlorine will not clear it. The water has to be over-chlorinated for 2 or 3 days. Chlorine works more effectively in alkaline water rather than neutral ph water.

Here is what to do .... Close the pool, add 5 kilos of soda ash and circulate / filter the water for one hour, add double the normal weekly chlorine in one go and circulate / filter for 24 hours.

After 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal after another 24 hours it will be safe to use again but the chlorine and Ph levels will confirm this.

One side thought is .. that the chlorine that the pool pro is using is not 90% but a lower cost mixture or even a rip off supply, worth checking.

Add 5kg of soda ash and after 24 hours the improvement would be noticeably visible and the chlorine / ph back to near normal

You really have any idea what you're talking about?

Yes.ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1429154797.585358.jpg

5kg of soda ash would raise the pH in an average sized pool with 2.5.and raise TA by 75.

This would mean that a previous neutral pH pool would rise to pH 9.5, which would make chlorine pretty ineffective, since chlorine has it's maximum effectiveness at pH 7.4. Everything lower or higher than this number will make the chlorine less effective, so a pH of 2.0 above the recommended level would render chlorine just useless, or in other words would promote algae growth.

http://www.swimmingpool.com/maintenance/chemical-problems-and-solutions/ph-and-pool-water

High pH in swimming pool water may cause the following problems:

• calcium buildup on pool surfaces, waterline and accessories

• dull or cloudy pool water

• clogging of filter medium or elements

• drop in disinfection potential of chlorine resulting in algae growth

Now another thing is, if you can get a pH of 9.5 back to normal in 48 hours without adding loads of HCI, you must be a magician. Moreover I would consider that a pool with such a high pH and extreme high TA as well, will give you big problems to get back to normal for the next 3 months.

No, you are presuming a normal ph to start. The fact that the pool is green should tell you that this is not so and that the chlorine is ineffective because of that. In short the water is contaminated. As you say I must be a magician, I prefer to say a good working knowledge of chemistry and a real interest in pools.

My method will clean the pool quickly, effectively and for a low cost. Moreover it works, I note that you have many criticisms but no suggestions and also that since your last post you have been rather busy using the Google method of research. I however have more than a tad of first hand experience, Iv tried many of the mamby-pamby and also the high cost pool treatments. I prefer now not to prattle around with a little of this and a little of that. I hit the problem quick and hard and as a result the problems are also resolved quickly, effectively, economically and safely. Also returning the pool to use in 2/3 days.

If anyone disagrees with my method, good, use your own method. Mine works, yours may be an ongoing project. The op pool pro is clearly quite useless if he is unable to quickly fix a simple and regular issue such as this. Obviously the pool pro is in the ongoing project category.

[sappersrest]

Hi Folks I have been following this forum with great interest whilst there is some really good advice some, comments are really unhelpful. I have taken the liberty to attach a pdf file, please take time to read it all it may take several reads.Although it is very technical , it should give readers some deeper understanding of pool water chemistry.Please read the section on the relationship of ph and chlorine and its effectivness at 7.2 , This is the figure that most european pools now try to maintain.

I have been earning my living for the past 30 years as water treatment engineer in the UK commercial pool industry.Swimming_Pool_Disinfection.pdf

[sappersrest]

I am now retired and living in Chiang mai.

[IMHO]

5kg of soda ash would raise the pH in an average sized pool with 2.5.and raise TA by 75.

How can anyone specify a qty of chemicals to add when the OP has never stated their existing chemical balance or water volume?

In my pool, that qty of soda ash would send my TA so far through the roof I'd have to drain out 1/2 of the water just to get it back to normal again..

[maanoi]

Wow many of the recent posts here are totally wrong and will only cause confussion. The OP had his question corrextly answered very early on in this thread.

OP, please do not dump 5kg of soda ash in your pool!

[Naam]

5kg of soda ash would raise the pH in an average sized pool with 2.5.and raise TA by 75.

How can anyone specify a qty of chemicals to add when the OP has never stated their existing chemical balance or water volume?

In my pool, that qty of soda ash would send my TA so far through the roof I'd have to drain out 1/2 of the water just to get it back to normal again..

it was not Anthony but a clown who posted the "5kg soda ash"

[sappersrest]

With luck if you use this calculator it should save any misunderstandings and help you maintain your pool.Also a point to note that no amount of playing about with chemicals will help if the water filtration system is poorly designed. Remember all the organic pollution is in the top 3 inches of water ,take your testing sample at least 300mm below the surface for accurate results.

Balanced water is a lot more complicated than just keeping the pH and chlorine levels correct. buy yourselves a multi parameter test kit and it will become so easy and save many a heart ache.

Ph--Free chlorine-- Total chlorine---Alkalinity---Calcium hardness --Cynuric acid and to really push the boat out a TDS meter

http://www.easypoolchemicals.co.uk/shop/popups/calculator.html

For us Brits please be careful when using US based online calculators the good ol US gallon is different to ours, not that many use imperial gallons now.

[Anthony5]

A basic testkit, as the one you describe in your post, test for pH and TOTAL chlorine only which is useless since it is the FREE chlorine that sanitizes your water.

We know. But a basic tesk kit is perfect for BASIC testing, especially for domestic pools and doing some first checks on a new fill. Any other testing equipment may possibly work out significantly more expensive, and particularly budget conscious pool owners will know that it might not be necessary to launch into high cost testing equipment right from the outset especially when one can apparently buy stuff six times cheaper in some other country.

An Aquachek silver 7 in 1 testkit with 100 test strips cost approx 900 Baht delivered to your doorstep on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquachek-Pool-Spa-Test-Strips-7-in-1-Fast-Free-Shipping-/321707013946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae73b773a

This test kit tests for Total hardness, total chlorine - free chlorine - Total alkalinity - pH and Cyanuric acid and is sufficient for almost 2 years testing once a week.

Getting a contaminated pool back in balance cost a multiple of this.

[sappersrest]

A basic testkit, as the one you describe in your post, test for pH and TOTAL chlorine only which is useless since it is the FREE chlorine that sanitizes your water.

We know. But a basic tesk kit is perfect for BASIC testing, especially for domestic pools and doing some first checks on a new fill. Any other testing equipment may possibly work out significantly more expensive, and particularly budget conscious pool owners will know that it might not be necessary to launch into high cost testing equipment right from the outset especially when one can apparently buy stuff six times cheaper in some other country.

An Aquachek silver 7 in 1 testkit with 100 test strips cost approx 900 Baht delivered to your doorstep on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquachek-Pool-Spa-Test-Strips-7-in-1-Fast-Free-Shipping-/321707013946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae73b773a

This test kit tests for Total hardness, total chlorine - free chlorine - Total alkalinity - pH and Cyanuric acid and is sufficient for almost 2 years testing once a week.

Getting a contaminated pool back in balance cost a multiple of this.

The great thing is the accuracy,I have checked them against a fully calibrated photometer and they are within 2% which is great for pool testing

Edited April 16, 2015 by sappersrest

[Anthony5]

Today I went to see the little one at the ex her place. She has a small pool of about 25.000 liter, yeah the same one that tested 200ppm CYA shortly after she moved in, and the pool looked cloudy.

At the time the pool tested dangerous high in CYA I had given the new boyfriend as much info as possible how to take care of a pool, but he seems to know better, and they just continued with the pool boy. I guess by now it must be 400ppm CYA

So yesterday the pool was perfectly clear, today it looked like a lot of milk was spilled in it.

Asked her what happened and she said the BF had tested and found it was low in pH, so he had thrown 4 kg of soda ash in the pool half an hour earlier. In a 25.000 liter pool I'm sure the water will not be acidic now.

On top of that he had another 4 kg ready to throw in when the previous load was dissolved.

Tomorrow I'll ask her if he is a member of TVF.

[sappersrest]

There is no helping people who think they know best. Just make sure the little one does not use the pool!!!

[Naam]

A basic testkit, as the one you describe in your post, test for pH and TOTAL chlorine only which is useless since it is the FREE chlorine that sanitizes your water.

We know. But a basic tesk kit is perfect for BASIC testing, especially for domestic pools and doing some first checks on a new fill. Any other testing equipment may possibly work out significantly more expensive, and particularly budget conscious pool owners will know that it might not be necessary to launch into high cost testing equipment right from the outset especially when one can apparently buy stuff six times cheaper in some other country.

An Aquachek silver 7 in 1 testkit with 100 test strips cost approx 900 Baht delivered to your doorstep on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquachek-Pool-Spa-Test-Strips-7-in-1-Fast-Free-Shipping-/321707013946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae73b773a

This test kit tests for Total hardness, total chlorine - free chlorine - Total alkalinity - pH and Cyanuric acid and is sufficient for almost 2 years testing once a week.

Getting a contaminated pool back in balance cost a multiple of this.

any problems having it sent to Thailand?

[Anthony5]

A basic testkit, as the one you describe in your post, test for pH and TOTAL chlorine only which is useless since it is the FREE chlorine that sanitizes your water.

We know. But a basic tesk kit is perfect for BASIC testing, especially for domestic pools and doing some first checks on a new fill. Any other testing equipment may possibly work out significantly more expensive, and particularly budget conscious pool owners will know that it might not be necessary to launch into high cost testing equipment right from the outset especially when one can apparently buy stuff six times cheaper in some other country.

An Aquachek silver 7 in 1 testkit with 100 test strips cost approx 900 Baht delivered to your doorstep on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquachek-Pool-Spa-Test-Strips-7-in-1-Fast-Free-Shipping-/321707013946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae73b773a

This test kit tests for Total hardness, total chlorine - free chlorine - Total alkalinity - pH and Cyanuric acid and is sufficient for almost 2 years testing once a week.

Getting a contaminated pool back in balance cost a multiple of this.

any problems having it sent to Thailand?

No problems at all Naam. I have ordered twice and other members hve also ordered on my suggestion.

Shipping is fast and comes in under the radar.

There are other suppliers on Ebay, but the one I linked to is the most "economic" offer .

[IMHO]

any problems having it sent to Thailand?

No problems at all Naam. I have ordered twice and other members hve also ordered on my suggestion.

Shipping is fast and comes in under the radar.

There are other suppliers on Ebay, but the one I linked to is the most "economic" offer .

+1, I have bought them 3 times from Ebay, once I had to pay 7 Baht VAT

[sappersrest]

Hi folks just a quick word of advice make sure if and when you order test strips make sure they are made by Hach and that they are capable of doing seven tests, there are a few cheaper look alike products on the market and they only do five tests.

Get the seven test kit then if you have any problems with water quality issues, it will be easier to diagnose and possibly solve by email etc.

You do not require to test for bromine unless of course you use bromine. (not normally used for pools but ideal for hot tubs )

Hope to see containers full of test strips coming to Thailand, might put some of those pool cowboys out of business, and have a lot less stressed pool owners as well.

Edited April 21, 2015 by sappersrest

[fdimike]

I've been using this same brand kit for a number of years now for my salt water pool. They work great and I never have a problem with green/gray/cloudy water. I along with help from my brother-in-law do all maintenance on our large in ground pool.

[fdimike]

As an aside I also purchased a simple aquarium hydrometer to monitor the salt level.

[Anthony5]

any problems having it sent to Thailand?

No problems at all Naam. I have ordered twice and other members hve also ordered on my suggestion.

Shipping is fast and comes in under the radar.

There are other suppliers on Ebay, but the one I linked to is the most "economic" offer .

+1, I have bought them 3 times from Ebay, once I had to pay 7 Baht VAT

You have been had mate.

I have had the same charge with other items a few times, and it is always 7 baht, and don't get a receipt.

I'm still trying to figure out why that 7 Baht is applied in some cases.

[Naam]

We know. But a basic tesk kit is perfect for BASIC testing, especially for domestic pools and doing some first checks on a new fill. Any other testing equipment may possibly work out significantly more expensive, and particularly budget conscious pool owners will know that it might not be necessary to launch into high cost testing equipment right from the outset especially when one can apparently buy stuff six times cheaper in some other country.

An Aquachek silver 7 in 1 testkit with 100 test strips cost approx 900 Baht delivered to your doorstep on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquachek-Pool-Spa-Test-Strips-7-in-1-Fast-Free-Shipping-/321707013946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae73b773a

This test kit tests for Total hardness, total chlorine - free chlorine - Total alkalinity - pH and Cyanuric acid and is sufficient for almost 2 years testing once a week.

Getting a contaminated pool back in balance cost a multiple of this.

any problems having it sent to Thailand?

No problems at all Naam. I have ordered twice and other members hve also ordered on my suggestion.

Shipping is fast and comes in under the radar.

There are other suppliers on Ebay, but the one I linked to is the most "economic" offer .

i usually order things in Europe, have it delivered to one of my friends who handcarry it. as i get frequently visitors that is normally no problem. but there are still "dry" months when a direct delivery comes in handy.

thanks for the info, will order today.

p.s. i don't understand why pool shops in Thailand carry only CL and pH kits

[sappersrest]

Thai pool shops only carry basic test kits, so as to stop people getting into and practicing the black art of basic pool water chemistry (or do them out of a job).

I would certainly advocate people to carry out the basic pool tests at least once a day i.e. chlorine and pH, That way it is easy to start spotting trends and then be able to act proactively .

A good example of this is to maybe test the pool the day before all the neighbours kids come around or the big family party.

[Rhys]

It is quite sad, a university pool..... staff and director...more the director, have fizzled away the funds to take care of a beautiful 50 meter pool that is only 5 years old..

[merijn]

I have a normal pool and my old handyman was perfect for maintaining the pool, never dirty or discoloration. Unfortunately i have a new handyman who knows nothing about pools and therefore the pool is now green. (Can't see the bottom) the pool company tried to teach him about pool maintenance but without success and I'm afraid he will never learn it.

I don't have the time to do it myself.

As I was thinking of changing the pool to a salt water pool maybe it's now a good time to do it.

But I don't have any experience with salt water pools.

My question; are salt water pools easier to maintain ( like idiot proof) and to keep good by somebody who doesn't know much about pools.

All advice on this is more than welcome.

[IMHO]

I have a normal pool and my old handyman was perfect for maintaining the pool, never dirty or discoloration. Unfortunately i have a new handyman who knows nothing about pools and therefore the pool is now green. (Can't see the bottom) the pool company tried to teach him about pool maintenance but without success and I'm afraid he will never learn it.

I don't have the time to do it myself.

As I was thinking of changing the pool to a salt water pool maybe it's now a good time to do it.

But I don't have any experience with salt water pools.

My question; are salt water pools easier to maintain ( like idiot proof) and to keep good by somebody who doesn't know much about pools.

All advice on this is more than welcome.

A salt water chlorinator doesn't magically make your pool maintenance-free, but the difference in the amount of maintenance required is substantially reduced.

Instead of checking & manually dosing chlorine levels daily (or having rollercoaster chlorine levels if dosing less frequently) as you do in non-salt pools, you simply set the chlorinator (and main pump) to run for a specific time & chlorine dose each day, so your pool maintains a steady chlorine balance.

Most chlorinators are simply based on a timer and a dosing control - you still have to do some tests and find a setup to get the right balance, and you'll need to re-visit that balance as the seasons change too (less duration/intensity sunlight = less chlorine loss).

It also won't alleviate the need for vacuuming, wall scrubbing, emptying skimmers and pump baskets, checking overall chemistry balance, and adding things like algaecides at the onset of an outbreak. You will also need to check salt levels (TDS) after topping up the pool, or a big rain.

OK, maybe I just made it sound hard, but it's really not - what should be a daily job for manually dosed chlorine pools becomes about half an hour a week. You'll still want to do daily inspections of the water to look for evidence of an oncoming algae outbreak though (backswimmers/water boatsmen in the water is my warning sign).

[fdimike]

We have had a salt water pool for 10 years now and find it's quite easy to maintain. The only chemical I add on a regular basis is a small amount of hydrocloric acid (to maintain the Ph) once you have it balanced correctly. By that I mean you will need to initially adjust the Total Alkalinity first and then add Cyanauric Acid which acts as a stabilizer for the chlorine being produced by the chlorinator. Of course you will also have to add salt initially. Once you have everything balanced there's not much else to do other than clean the filter and vacuum the bottom. All your chemicals to include the salt will remain in the water indefinitely or until you have to drain some of the water out due to heavy rain.

The only real factor to contend with is the rain which may cause you to drain off some of the water. Draining some of the water due to the heavy rain may in turn require you to eventually rebalance the Total Alkalinity and level of Cyanauric Acid.

My handicapped brother-in-law takes care of the vacuuming and removing leaves etc from the surface and I do the rest myself.

I hope this helps.

[fdimike]

I ommitted the algae issue because we have never had that problem with our pool. I have never had to add any algaecide. I check the chemical balance about once a week. My brother-in-law also uses a long handled pool brush to scrub the walls daily.

[IMHO]

I ommitted the algae issue because we have never had that problem with our pool. I have never had to add any algaecide.

I've never figured out where those bugs actually come from. I think they fall from the sky

[merijn]

A salt water chlorinator doesn't magically make your pool maintenance-free, but the difference in the amount of maintenance required is substantially reduced.

Instead of checking & manually dosing chlorine levels daily (or having rollercoaster chlorine levels if dosing less frequently) as you do in non-salt pools, you simply set the chlorinator (and main pump) to run for a specific time & chlorine dose each day, so your pool maintains a steady chlorine balance.

Most chlorinators are simply based on a timer and a dosing control - you still have to do some tests and find a setup to get the right balance, and you'll need to re-visit that balance as the seasons change too (less duration/intensity sunlight = less chlorine loss).

It also won't alleviate the need for vacuuming, wall scrubbing, emptying skimmers and pump baskets, checking overall chemistry balance, and adding things like algaecides at the onset of an outbreak. You will also need to check salt levels (TDS) after topping up the pool, or a big rain.

OK, maybe I just made it sound hard, but it's really not - what should be a daily job for manually dosed chlorine pools becomes about half an hour a week. You'll still want to do daily inspections of the water to look for evidence of an oncoming algae outbreak though (backswimmers/water boatsmen in the water is my warning sign).

IMHO Thanks for the information,

I understand that salt pools also need daily maintenance. The cleaning of the pool, filters etc is not the problem and the handyman is doing this already.

But the big problem i have is maintaining the chemical balance of the pool.

Unfortunately i don't have time and i'm not every week at home and the handyman does not have a clue how to check and adjust the chemicals. ( sorry to say but he is not very clever but a nice guy)

The pool company is very helpful in trying to teach him this but it is a lost cause.

Or i use a service contract with the company or i change to a salt pool (what i was planning to do anyway) so the chemical control can be made much easier.

[kmrazek]

Something to also keep in mind with salt water chlorinators is that when the salt level drops with rain dilution, that the efficiency of the chlorinator also drops. The chlorinator electrolyzes NaCl to make Cl2 and most chlorinators have variable voltage output to accommodate variations in salt levels. So this means that as the salt level drops, the chlorinator voltage goes up to compensate but this does result in a drop in efficiency because the chlorinator will start to electrolyze water H2O into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas. What I found was that if I bump up my salt level to a higher level at the start of the hot season/rainy season that I was able to stop the green algae bloom from occurring and the chlorinator did not have to be set to high to keep adequate free chlorine. I did notice a very slight white haze on occasion especially after a big storm that brought in a lot of dust, leaves, algae spores but with regular cleaning it was removed. Before the hot and rainy season I would add an additional 25kg salt for every 10,000 liters. This info might help some of you with the green pools.