British superbug outbreak 'could kill 80,000'

[cumgranosalum]

I am suprised Cameron never suggested that if Brexit suceeds 23% of British population will die from this superbug

Just realised the source of this "story" more hysterical scaremongering stories from the telegraph and suppose headline news in the mail as well ?

Hardly reputable newspapers in the UK

if Britain leaves the EU, one of the biggest immediate impacts will be felt in scientific research, much of which is funded - not by Big Pharma - but by the EU.

[cumgranosalum]

I am suprised Cameron never suggested that if Brexit suceeds 23% of British population will die from this superbug

Just realised the source of this "story" more hysterical scaremongering stories from the telegraph and suppose headline news in the mail as well ?

Hardly reputable newspapers in the UK

Another profoundly ill-informed post again

The report is here - published May 2016

http://amr-review.org/sites/default/files/160518_Final%20paper_with%20cover.pdf

The media may get it "wrong" to sell papers, but read this first before making these ridiculous comments

Edited May 20, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[ilostmypassword]

If action is not taken we are on the verge of a new era....

The old era will be from about 1940 to 2020 - it will be the era when scientific drugs worked.

The new era will be the era without effective drugs.

That means returning to a time when STDs, measles, smallpox minor cuts and abrasions, broken bone etc etc could be fatal......the only treatment will be a succession of painkillers until death........

Actually there are currently very effective treatments for bacterial infections. They're called bacteriophages or phages for short.. Phages are viruses that infect and kill bacteria. They are a bit harder to prescribe because they are not a broad spectrum treatment like antibiotics but actually offer the possibility of a virtually bulletproof cure for bacterial. infections. They are stilled used in some parts of eastern europe. Actually their use preceded antibiotics but when antibiotics were discovered they were so much easier to use that most phage research just evaporated. That research is resurgent now. And the reason I used the word "bulletproof" is because typical phage treatments don't just include one type of virus but many. So even if a bacterium mutates to defend itself against one kind of virus, the others will kill it anyway. The odds against a bacterium mutating all the defenses it would need are vanishingly small even over long spans of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

I'm more and more aghast at your total ignorance of this topic.

you are now talking about a way of killing bacteria - it was obvious from your earlier posts that you have no idea of what "antimicrobial" means and you haven't bothered to find out so you now try to sidetrack the issue by talking about something else you clearly don't understand i.e. bacteriophages.

Why not just admit it you haven't read the report, you don't understand the issues and stop posting nonsense?

I read the article not the report. And yes, you're right the article is about antimicrobials. But I was absolutely correct to counter Johpa's assertion about antibiotics.

Now can you please tell me what it is that i don't understand about bacteriaphages? What errors have I made in my short paragraph about them? I wait your reply with interest and your bizarre rage with indifference.

[Koosdedooes]

I am suprised Cameron never suggested that if Brexit suceeds 23% of British population will die from this superbug

Just realised the source of this "story" more hysterical scaremongering stories from the telegraph and suppose headline news in the mail as well ?

Hardly reputable newspapers in the UK

Another profoundly ill-informed post again

The report is here - published May 2016

http://amr-review.org/sites/default/files/160518_Final%20paper_with%20cover.pdf

The media may get it "wrong" to sell papers, but read this first before making these ridiculous comments

Have they perfected that sense of humour transplant yet ? Could think of a few who would benefit from this ground breaking treatment

[cumgranosalum]

If action is not taken we are on the verge of a new era....

The old era will be from about 1940 to 2020 - it will be the era when scientific drugs worked.

The new era will be the era without effective drugs.

That means returning to a time when STDs, measles, smallpox minor cuts and abrasions, broken bone etc etc could be fatal......the only treatment will be a succession of painkillers until death........

Actually there are currently very effective treatments for bacterial infections. They're called bacteriophages or phages for short.. Phages are viruses that infect and kill bacteria. They are a bit harder to prescribe because they are not a broad spectrum treatment like antibiotics but actually offer the possibility of a virtually bulletproof cure for bacterial. infections. They are stilled used in some parts of eastern europe. Actually their use preceded antibiotics but when antibiotics were discovered they were so much easier to use that most phage research just evaporated. That research is resurgent now. And the reason I used the word "bulletproof" is because typical phage treatments don't just include one type of virus but many. So even if a bacterium mutates to defend itself against one kind of virus, the others will kill it anyway. The odds against a bacterium mutating all the defenses it would need are vanishingly small even over long spans of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

I'm more and more aghast at your total ignorance of this topic.

you are now talking about a way of killing bacteria - it was obvious from your earlier posts that you have no idea of what "antimicrobial" means and you haven't bothered to find out so you now try to sidetrack the issue by talking about something else you clearly don't understand i.e. bacteriophages.

Why not just admit it you haven't read the report, you don't understand the issues and stop posting nonsense?

I read the article not the report. And yes, you're right the article is about antimicrobials. But I was absolutely correct to counter Johpa's assertion about antibiotics.

Now can you please tell me what it is that i don't understand about bacteriaphages? What errors have I made in my short paragraph about them? I wait your reply with interest and your bizarre rage with indifference.

It seems to me that you are grasping a straws here.

the sign of someone with no argument is to ask for "ridiculous" references - it is up to YOUY to get up to speed before you comment...

Bacteriophages have been know about for at least a century and the problems associated with them are well - documented - you seem completely unaware of this.

furthermore as we are talking about CHANGING microbes, bacteriophages have the same problems. they may be able to adapt but the way they are used makes them far more difficult to apply in general and we would also need to do several years of infrastructure catch up.

Like everything else you have posted here, you do so without bothering to inform yourself first. ..... now...why don't you spend some time reading up on the topic "AMRs" and ten on bacteriophages neither of which you appear to know the first thing about.

you might also explain how you think bacteriophages are going to replace all the other forms of drugs threatened by AMR.

[pitrevie]

Apparently its based on something Darwin wrote about 150 years ago.Dr Ben Carson, Dr Ron Paul state things such as bacteria evolving is just a theory and Dr Paul Broun goes even further and states its from the pit of hell. This approach is supported by almost the entire GOP in the USA, its not proven science so nothing to worry about. As usual the vast majority of scientists say otherwise but they are probably all in on the scam.

possibly the most fatuous post on the thread.......Various diseases (including HIV are already showing resistance to current drugs. It is not just bacteria. However bacteria are already shown to resistant in some common diseases.....

"

• There are high proportions of antibiotic resistance in bacteria that cause common infections (e.g. urinary tract infections, pneumonia, bloodstream infections) in all regions of the world. A high percentage of hospital-acquired infections are caused by highly resistant bacteria such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus(MRSA) or multidrug-resistant Gram-negative bacteria.
• Treatment failures due to resistance to treatments of last resort for gonorrhoea (third-generation cephalosporins) have been reported from 10 countries. Gonorrhoea may soon become untreatable as no vaccines or new drugs are in development" - WHO...

And do tell us why those bacteria are now resistant to the drugs if it is not something that Darwin pointed out 150 years ago.

[cumgranosalum]

Apparently its based on something Darwin wrote about 150 years ago.Dr Ben Carson, Dr Ron Paul state things such as bacteria evolving is just a theory and Dr Paul Broun goes even further and states its from the pit of hell. This approach is supported by almost the entire GOP in the USA, its not proven science so nothing to worry about. As usual the vast majority of scientists say otherwise but they are probably all in on the scam.

possibly the most fatuous post on the thread.......Various diseases (including HIV are already showing resistance to current drugs. It is not just bacteria. However bacteria are already shown to resistant in some common diseases.....

"

• There are high proportions of antibiotic resistance in bacteria that cause common infections (e.g. urinary tract infections, pneumonia, bloodstream infections) in all regions of the world. A high percentage of hospital-acquired infections are caused by highly resistant bacteria such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus(MRSA) or multidrug-resistant Gram-negative bacteria.
• Treatment failures due to resistance to treatments of last resort for gonorrhoea (third-generation cephalosporins) have been reported from 10 countries. Gonorrhoea may soon become untreatable as no vaccines or new drugs are in development" - WHO...

And do tell us why those bacteria are now resistant to the drugs if it is not something that Darwin pointed out 150 years ago.

As ever the requests for ridiculous citations is the response of someone with no idea. you are just trying in vain to recover from a blunder you have chosen to make in black and white.

If you had the slightest inkling of what this was about, you'd realise what an utterly fatuous question that is.

The topic is about the AMR report - how can you make comments about it if you don't know anything in the first place - it isn't for me to give you an education in reading a science - it is all there for you - but most people like to comment on something they know a bit about or at least in context with the topic.

if you want to take part in the topic why not read up first - it says quite clearly in the report what is going on and why.

do yourself a favour - read and don't look quite so ill-informed.

in fact here's a short cut.....this is the WHO fact sheet on AMR

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/

it's been referred to before but you obviously chose to ignore it.

Edited May 20, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

I am suprised Cameron never suggested that if Brexit suceeds 23% of British population will die from this superbug

Just realised the source of this "story" more hysterical scaremongering stories from the telegraph and suppose headline news in the mail as well ?

Hardly reputable newspapers in the UK

Another profoundly ill-informed post again

The report is here - published May 2016

http://amr-review.org/sites/default/files/160518_Final%20paper_with%20cover.pdf

The media may get it "wrong" to sell papers, but read this first before making these ridiculous comments

Have they perfected that sense of humour transplant yet ? Could think of a few who would benefit from this ground breaking treatment

there's nothing humopuropus about a bunch of idiots posting nonsense about a report they have neither read nor understand

[cumgranosalum]

Actually this brings to mind a quotable line based on proverbs by Geo Carlin....

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

[boomerangutang]

Sometimes fixing things can be painful.

People have overpopulated this planet severely.

People numbers have to come down. It will happen in a combination of ways.

So-called 'super-bug' is one of many.

Other species can hopefully breathe a sigh of relief, when human populations go down significantly.

[pitrevie]

Apparently its based on something Darwin wrote about 150 years ago.Dr Ben Carson, Dr Ron Paul state things such as bacteria evolving is just a theory and Dr Paul Broun goes even further and states its from the pit of hell. This approach is supported by almost the entire GOP in the USA, its not proven science so nothing to worry about. As usual the vast majority of scientists say otherwise but they are probably all in on the scam.

possibly the most fatuous post on the thread.......Various diseases (including HIV are already showing resistance to current drugs. It is not just bacteria. However bacteria are already shown to resistant in some common diseases.....

"

• There are high proportions of antibiotic resistance in bacteria that cause common infections (e.g. urinary tract infections, pneumonia, bloodstream infections) in all regions of the world. A high percentage of hospital-acquired infections are caused by highly resistant bacteria such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus(MRSA) or multidrug-resistant Gram-negative bacteria.
• Treatment failures due to resistance to treatments of last resort for gonorrhoea (third-generation cephalosporins) have been reported from 10 countries. Gonorrhoea may soon become untreatable as no vaccines or new drugs are in development" - WHO...

And do tell us why those bacteria are now resistant to the drugs if it is not something that Darwin pointed out 150 years ago.

As ever the requests for ridiculous citations is the response of someone with no idea. you are just trying in vain to recover from a blunder you have chosen to make in black and white.

If you had the slightest inkling of what this was about, you'd realise what an utterly fatuous question that is.

The topic is about the AMR report - how can you make comments about it if you don't know anything in the first place - it isn't for me to give you an education in reading a science - it is all there for you - but most people like to comment on something they know a bit about or at least in context with the topic.

if you want to take part in the topic why not read up first - it says quite clearly in the report what is going on and why.

do yourself a favour - read and don't look quite so ill-informed.

in fact here's a short cut.....this is the WHO fact sheet on AMR

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/

it's been referred to before but you obviously chose to ignore it.

I think you have a problem reading and understanding. I asked a very simple question which you have decided to brush aside probably because you misread my original post and are now trying to backpedal.

Once again why are these drugs becoming ineffective if it isn't what Darwin pointed out 150 years ago. In my OP I indicated that we have a mindset in the USA where almost an entire political party that deny this science.

Let me just give you one quote from the link which you so kindly provided.

The evolution of resistant strains is a natural phenomenon that occurs when microorganisms replicate themselves erroneously or when resistant traits are exchanged between them. The use and misuse of antimicrobial drugs accelerates the emergence of drug-resistant strains. Poor infection control practices, inadequate sanitary conditions and inappropriate food-handling encourage the further spread of antimicrobial resistance.

I have highlighted the operative word.. try reading the links you post before replying to posts you might better understand what is being discussed.

Edited May 20, 2016 by pitrevie

[Koosdedooes]

I am suprised Cameron never suggested that if Brexit suceeds 23% of British population will die from this superbug

Just realised the source of this "story" more hysterical scaremongering stories from the telegraph and suppose headline news in the mail as well ?

Hardly reputable newspapers in the UK

Another profoundly ill-informed post again

The report is here - published May 2016

http://amr-review.org/sites/default/files/160518_Final%20paper_with%20cover.pdf

The media may get it "wrong" to sell papers, but read this first before making these ridiculous comments

Have they perfected that sense of humour transplant yet ? Could think of a few who would benefit from this ground breaking treatment

there's nothing humopuropus about a bunch of idiots posting nonsense about a report they have neither read nor understand

Oh dear, i will concede i havent read it, but whats makes you think i wouldnt understand it ?...

ny way its just another study same as the ones that come out every week, scaremongering to gain more funds for research...one week they tell you eggs are good for you the following week they tell you excess egg consumption will make you grow a 3rd eye and your testicles will grow to the size of an elephant

So lighten up, being so uptight can kill you as well

Edited May 20, 2016 by Koosdedooes

[cumgranosalum]

I think a few people here are playing pigeon chess.

[ilostmypassword]

As ever the requests for ridiculous citations is the response of someone with no idea. you are just trying in vain to recover from a blunder you have chosen to make in black and white.

And do tell us why those bacteria are now resistant to the drugs if it is not something that Darwin pointed out 150 years ago.

If you had the slightest inkling of what this was about, you'd realise what an utterly fatuous question that is.

The topic is about the AMR report - how can you make comments about it if you don't know anything in the first place - it isn't for me to give you an education in reading a science - it is all there for you - but most people like to comment on something they know a bit about or at least in context with the topic.

if you want to take part in the topic why not read up first - it says quite clearly in the report what is going on and why.

do yourself a favour - read and don't look quite so ill-informed.

in fact here's a short cut.....this is the WHO fact sheet on AMR

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/

it's been referred to before but you obviously chose to ignore it.

I think you have a problem reading and understanding. I asked a very simple question which you have decided to brush aside probably because you misread my original post and are now trying to backpedal.

Once again why are these drugs becoming ineffective if it isn't what Darwin pointed out 150 years ago. In my OP I indicated that we have a mindset in the USA where almost an entire political party that deny this science.

Let me just give you one quote from the link which you so kindly provided.

The evolution of resistant strains is a natural phenomenon that occurs when microorganisms replicate themselves erroneously or when resistant traits are exchanged between them. The use and misuse of antimicrobial drugs accelerates the emergence of drug-resistant strains. Poor infection control practices, inadequate sanitary conditions and inappropriate food-handling encourage the further spread of antimicrobial resistance.

I have highlighted the operative word.. try reading the links you post before replying to posts you might better understand what is being discussed.

I got the virtuall the same kind of reply. I can't feature why someone would get so emotional about microbes. Politics I can understand since all kinds of valules are involved. I think it's pretty clear that this guy doesn't get much respect in his real life and takes out his rage in forums like this.

[pitrevie]

I think a few people here are playing pigeon chess.

I think you need to read the post before accusing people of making fatuous comments. The sixth word in on my OP mentioned Darwin which I had assumed until now everyone would associate with the word Evolution.

[ilostmypassword]

I think a few people here are playing pigeon chess.

I think you need to read the post before accusing people of making fatuous comments. The sixth word in on my OP mentioned Darwin which I had assumed until now everyone would associate with the word Evolution.

It's clear from his comments that cumgranosalum doesn't know who Darwin was. And not to worry about it. It's not your job to educate him.

[ilostmypassword]

British superbug outbreak 'could kill 80,000'

So this won't be blamed on Thai street food vendors? I'm sure some of our more creative posters will manage to put the blame on Thailand one way or another, although over-prescription & misuse of unnecessary antibiotics is as much a first world problem as one in the third world.

To be fair, the headline is a little misleading ... the report came out of Britain, I don't think it was meant to imply that Britain would necessarily be ground zero for the next plague ... just the hub of hysterical predicitions:

"David Cameron has warned that such a scenario would see the world “cast back into the dark ages of medicine”.

Of course it was the home of mad cow disease and seems to be a leader in foot and mouth disease, so who knows.

Something is stirring that will cast the UK back to the dark ages. It will not be anything to do with medicine.

Oh no. Bellbottoms are coming back!

[cumgranosalum]

I think a few people here are playing pigeon chess.

I think you need to read the post before accusing people of making fatuous comments. The sixth word in on my OP mentioned Darwin which I had assumed until now everyone would associate with the word Evolution.

It's clear from his comments that cumgranosalum doesn't know who Darwin was. And not to worry about it. It's not your job to educate him.

QED - pigeon chess.

[cumgranosalum]

There seems to be a paucity of critical thought concentrated on this thread - Dunning Kruger running riot - for those of you who don't understand Darwin but think they do, and consider all this to be science fiction, take a look at this.

http://time.com/4350585/superbug-cant-be-treated-with-antibiotics/

the sad thing is the very people who need to, won't bother

Edited May 30, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[pitrevie]

There seems to be a paucity of critical thought concentrated on this thread - Dunning Kruger running riot - for those of you who don't understand Darwin but think they do, and consider all this to be science fiction, take a look at this.

http://time.com/4350585/superbug-cant-be-treated-with-antibiotics/

the sad thing is the very people who need to, won't bother

Have you ever considered that might apply to you? Anyone who has ever bothered to read anything about Darwin knows this is as far from fiction as you can get and is a real threat.

Edited May 30, 2016 by pitrevie

[cumgranosalum]

There seems to be a paucity of critical thought concentrated on this thread - Dunning Kruger running riot - for those of you who don't understand Darwin but think they do, and consider all this to be science fiction, take a look at this.

http://time.com/4350585/superbug-cant-be-treated-with-antibiotics/

the sad thing is the very people who need to, won't bother

Have you ever considered that might apply to you? Anyone who has ever bothered to read anything about Darwin knows this is as far from fiction as you can get and is a real threat.

Yes - I have - which more than we can say for most on this thread...hence your garbled reply? - You seem so confused you can't tell whether you are actually agreeing with me or not......but you do seem under the erroneous impression that you are giving a coherent answer - the evidence suggests that you are not actually arguing just gainsaying, but don't seem aware of that either hence the impression of the Dunning Kruger effect?

​I believe it was you amongst others who made some really dumb ands inaccurate posts earlier in this thread so why not just live with it?

BTW - "no you " or "no your mother" are really arguments are they now?

Edited May 30, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[pitrevie]

There seems to be a paucity of critical thought concentrated on this thread - Dunning Kruger running riot - for those of you who don't understand Darwin but think they do, and consider all this to be science fiction, take a look at this.

http://time.com/4350585/superbug-cant-be-treated-with-antibiotics/

the sad thing is the very people who need to, won't bother

Have you ever considered that might apply to you? Anyone who has ever bothered to read anything about Darwin knows this is as far from fiction as you can get and is a real threat.

Yes - I have - which more than we can say for most on this thread...hence your garbled reply? - You seem so confused you can't tell whether you are actually agreeing with me or not......but you do seem under the erroneous impression that you are giving a coherent answer - the evidence suggests that you are not actually arguing just gainsaying, but don't seem aware of that either hence the impression of the Dunning Kruger effect?

​I believe it was you amongst others who made some really dumb ands inaccurate posts earlier in this thread so why not just live with it?

BTW - "no you " or "no your mother" are really arguments are they now?

I think it was you who failed to connect the dots when I originally mentioned Darwin in relation to this problem. Since when you have supplied me with a link confirming my original post and then spent the rest of the time trying to dig yourself out of the hole of your own making.

[cumgranosalum]

There seems to be a paucity of critical thought concentrated on this thread - Dunning Kruger running riot - for those of you who don't understand Darwin but think they do, and consider all this to be science fiction, take a look at this.

http://time.com/4350585/superbug-cant-be-treated-with-antibiotics/

the sad thing is the very people who need to, won't bother

Have you ever considered that might apply to you? Anyone who has ever bothered to read anything about Darwin knows this is as far from fiction as you can get and is a real threat.

Yes - I have - which more than we can say for most on this thread...hence your garbled reply? - You seem so confused you can't tell whether you are actually agreeing with me or not......but you do seem under the erroneous impression that you are giving a coherent answer - the evidence suggests that you are not actually arguing just gainsaying, but don't seem aware of that either hence the impression of the Dunning Kruger effect?

​I believe it was you amongst others who made some really dumb ands inaccurate posts earlier in this thread so why not just live with it?

BTW - "no you " or "no your mother" are really arguments are they now?

I think it was you who failed to connect the dots when I originally mentioned Darwin in relation to this problem. Since when you have supplied me with a link confirming my original post and then spent the rest of the time trying to dig yourself out of the hole of your own making.

QED