When was the last time The Chinese army fought anyone other than unarmed civilians? Oh yes. They were trounced by the Vietnamese in the 70s. Their last victory was Tiananmen square. I am sure there will be a useful relationship between the two armies. Victory over the people!...Sorry I meant: Victory to the people.

I think you really need to learn something from history !

China did not take their military 'incursion' into Vietnam in the 70s seriously. It was a brief conflict, China did not take it seriously, and China pulled out because they weren't interested in a long-term occupation of Vietnam.

Now then, the USA got involved in Vietnam before China's involvement. The Americans were in Vietnam a lot longer than China was, and America did take the conflict seriously. How much money and soldiers were used ? Hollywood spent the 1980s making movies/films about the devastating effect of the war on America. Yes, the movies were an exaggeration, but still, Vietnam was pretty much part of the US psyche during the 80s.

I think we should regard todays strengthening of military ties as symbolic of economic ties. China's economic power is rising and it is becoming the dominant economic power of the Far East area, there's no doubt about that. Thailand is trying to benefit and feed off the big beast.

I wonder if this deal with China includes defining where the sea boundary of Thailand finishes and Chinas' territory claim starts. If Thailand asks China to clarify, Thailand is in for a big shock. But the purchase of a few subs and increased military ties is no big deal. The Thai military poses no threat to any country, except possibly their own. The Andaman Sea is a strategic sea lane and the purchase of two conventional hunter/killer subs to patrol this area makes some kind of sense. They will be cheap at least. And because the US publicly criticised and caused Thailand to lose face Thailand, has little recourse but to run into the loving embrace of not only China but Russia as well.

If we look at a map of the South China Sea, surely, Thailand's advantage is, is that it doesn't have a dispute about islands and territorial seas with China ? It's Vietnam, and the others, they have a problem with China. But Thailand is simply not involved. That's one of the good things about being Thailand. Close enough to China to get the economic benefits (mass tourism, investment, etc), but not close enough to be involved in a dispute about whatever islands or whatever bit of the sea.

The Kilo class subs like the ones Malaysia and Vietnam have would seem to be a good bet. They are the quietest diesel ever built and designed for operation in shallow waters and for surface operations too. Maybe they could be used in Bangkok if floods to deep in the future. China has a bunch of nuclear subs so will probably want to sell the diesel ones.

2011 You could go with a small sub in our soi :-)

I wonder how many patrol-boats one might purchase, for the price of just one submarine, perhaps value-for-money ought to be a consideration ?

Then again, what about the brown-envelopes, TiT.

I wonder if this deal with China includes defining where the sea boundary of Thailand finishes and Chinas' territory claim starts. If Thailand asks China to clarify, Thailand is in for a big shock. But the purchase of a few subs and increased military ties is no big deal. The Thai military poses no threat to any country, except possibly their own. The Andaman Sea is a strategic sea lane and the purchase of two conventional hunter/killer subs to patrol this area makes some kind of sense. They will be cheap at least. And because the US publicly criticised and caused Thailand to lose face Thailand, has little recourse but to run into the loving embrace of not only China but Russia as well.

They should probably of considered building their state of the art submarine base on the Andaman coast then, rather than the thick end of 2,000 km away in Sattathip!

Just for fun, let's compare Costa Rica and Thailand.

Similarities: small countries, dependent largely on tourism revenue, bordered on two sides by sea, bordering other small countries, similar GNP and similar average income.

Differences: CR doesn't have a standing military. Thailand does. How many more military threats does Thailand have than CR? It's debatable, but also doubtful if Thailand needs subs and an aircraft carrier to meet its defense needs. Thailand is like the college kid who wants the expensive fanciest muscle car to impress other kids on the block.

CR has become fossil fuel-free in terms of electricity production. All its electric comes from renewables, when including hydro.

In contrast, a large portion of Thailand's electric comes from fossil fuels, and Thailand is fixated with running large cables over long distances (to Samui and to Mae Hong Song, for example) because it can't fathom the concept of renewables beyond just window dressing.

Yes, it looks like the Thai government is hedging its bets.

The corporate puppet masters in the US and the rest of the world will have to up their game.

Old Chinese proverb "When you drink the water, remember the spring."

The Thais would do well to remember this when those bets are called in.

Neither the US or Europe needs to up their ante by one red cent. All they need to do is get up and leave the game, which means closing their markets to Thai products or products made with parts from Thailand.

You really think they will leave the game zydeco?

I don't think for one minute that will happen.

Time will tell.

There's too much at stake here.

What is at stake? Thailand is chaotic, undependable, inefficient, and the infrastructure that the Americans built for them in the 60s and 70s is beginning to deteriorate. Meanwhile, Vietnam and the Philippines (where there is a traditional relationship and people speak English) are beckoning.

Ever heard of the expression giving an inch and taking a mile?

Look at what is going on in Africa, South America and even Ukraine.

China is making huge land investments not to mention corporate takeovers in the US and UK.as well.

However, I take your point, but I still don't believe the west will totally abandon Thailand in the long run.

If the Chinese can cut through "Thainess" it might not be such a bad thing in the short term.

Chailand. A future name for this country maybe. I don't understand why Thailand doesn't strenghten military ties with India? Laos and Cambodia pose no threat only Burma has a strong army and its near India the 4th biggest army on the planet.

What does the Thai military really have to offer? Corrupt, poorly trained and equiped do they have any recent real combat experience?

Strategic important position.....Airports and habors (that the USA love to use when they make troubles in Asia).

Strongest military in the region (beside Malaysia, maybe).

Manpower

You saw what the poor trained and equiped did in the Vietnam war. The kicked out the good trained and equiped American, with quantity.

Check Burma.

What does the Thai military really have to offer? Corrupt, poorly trained and equiped do they have any recent real combat experience?

Strategic important position.....Airports and habors (that the USA love to use when they make troubles in Asia).

Strongest military in the region (beside Malaysia, maybe).

Manpower

You saw what the poor trained and equiped did in the Vietnam war. The kicked out the good trained and equiped American, with quantity.

I take your points on strategic positions, however as for comparing the fighting spirit of he Vietnamese with the Thais, not the same. The Vietnamese have taken on and defeated all comers throughout their history and their present fight is the financial betterment of their nation they are making advances there as well, the Thais are not.

What does the Thai military really have to offer? Corrupt, poorly trained and equiped do they have any recent real combat experience?

Strategic important position.....Airports and habors (that the USA love to use when they make troubles in Asia).

Strongest military in the region (beside Malaysia, maybe).

Manpower

You saw what the poor trained and equiped did in the Vietnam war. The kicked out the good trained and equiped American, with quantity.

The altercation they had with the mighty Laos was not exactly a triumph:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai%E2%80%93Laotian_Border_War

Chailand. A future name for this country maybe. I don't understand why Thailand doesn't strenghten military ties with India? Laos and Cambodia pose no threat only Burma has a strong army and its near India the 4th biggest army on the planet.

Yes, Burma does have a strong army. But Burma's army is there to control Burma's people, it's not there to invade Burma's neighbours.

Thailand strengthen military ties with India ?? I doubt it. If we look at the Chinese take-away food shops in England, and the Indian curry shops. Well, the Thais look far more like Chinese take-away staff than people who are Indian curry shop workers. That's because the Thais are far more Chinese than they are Indian. And that's why it is, that Thailand is moving towards China rather than India.

What does the Thai military really have to offer? Corrupt, poorly trained and equiped do they have any recent real combat experience?

Strategic important position.....Airports and habors (that the USA love to use when they make troubles in Asia).

Strongest military in the region (beside Malaysia, maybe).

Manpower

You saw what the poor trained and equiped did in the Vietnam war. The kicked out the good trained and equiped American, with quantity.

I take your points on strategic positions, however as for comparing the fighting spirit of he Vietnamese with the Thais, not the same. The Vietnamese have taken on and defeated all comers throughout their history and their present fight is the financial betterment of their nation they are making advances there as well, the Thais are not.

I guess you forgot about Vietnam being a French Colony for about 100 years and then a Japanese occupied state. Easy to forget those losses I guess. Then there was the Au Lac-Nanyue War and Han–Nanyue War and Trưng Sisters Revolt and Lady Triệu Revolt and Sui-Vietnamese War and Phung Hung Revolt and Cham-Vietnamese War and Ming-Vietnamese War and Franco-Thai War ( Oh my did Thailand defeat the Vietnamese too?)

What does the Thai military really have to offer? Corrupt, poorly trained and equiped do they have any recent real combat experience?

Strategic important position.....Airports and habors (that the USA love to use when they make troubles in Asia).

Strongest military in the region (beside Malaysia, maybe).

Manpower

You saw what the poor trained and equiped did in the Vietnam war. The kicked out the good trained and equiped American, with quantity.

I take your points on strategic positions, however as for comparing the fighting spirit of he Vietnamese with the Thais, not the same. The Vietnamese have taken on and defeated all comers throughout their history and their present fight is the financial betterment of their nation they are making advances there as well, the Thais are not.

I guess you forgot about Vietnam being a French Colony for about 100 years and then a Japanese occupied state. Easy to forget those losses I guess. Then there was the Au Lac-Nanyue War and Han–Nanyue War and Trưng Sisters Revolt and Lady Triệu Revolt and Sui-Vietnamese War and Phung Hung Revolt and Cham-Vietnamese War and Ming-Vietnamese War and Franco-Thai War ( Oh my did Thailand defeat the Vietnamese too?)

The Vietnamese sent them all home in the end. They won their country back each time. I'll back the Viets fighting spirit over the Thais any time.

I take your points on strategic positions, however as for comparing the fighting spirit of he Vietnamese with the Thais, not the same. The Vietnamese have taken on and defeated all comers throughout their history and their present fight is the financial betterment of their nation they are making advances there as well, the Thais are not.

I guess you forgot about Vietnam being a French Colony for about 100 years and then a Japanese occupied state. Easy to forget those losses I guess. Then there was the Au Lac-Nanyue War and Han–Nanyue War and Trưng Sisters Revolt and Lady Triệu Revolt and Sui-Vietnamese War and Phung Hung Revolt and Cham-Vietnamese War and Ming-Vietnamese War and Franco-Thai War ( Oh my did Thailand defeat the Vietnamese too?)

The Vietnamese sent them all home in the end. They won their country back each time. I'll back the Viets fighting spirit over the Thais any time.

Thailand has fought a war with the Vietnamese once and won. The Vietnamese violated Thai borders many times and were chased out. Could you provide an example from the past 100 or so years when the Vietnamese army has defeated the Thai Army?

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Chailand. A future name for this country maybe. I don't understand why Thailand doesn't strenghten military ties with India? Laos and Cambodia pose no threat only Burma has a strong army and its near India the 4th biggest army on the planet.

Yes, Burma does have a strong army. But Burma's army is there to control Burma's people, it's not there to invade Burma's neighbours.

Thailand strengthen military ties with India ?? I doubt it. If we look at the Chinese take-away food shops in England, and the Indian curry shops. Well, the Thais look far more like Chinese take-away staff than people who are Indian curry shop workers. That's because the Thais are far more Chinese than they are Indian. And that's why it is, that Thailand is moving towards China rather than India.

Skin color is also a factor. Indians are dark on average, Chinese are light. It's something that's uncomfortable to talk about publicly, but is a factor nevertheless - in deciding which groups of people Thais would rather interact with.

36,000 million baht? Interesting math.

When was the last time The Chinese army fought anyone other than unarmed civilians? Oh yes. They were trounced by the Vietnamese in the 70s. Their last victory was Tiananmen square. I am sure there will be a useful relationship between the two armies. Victory over the people!...Sorry I meant: Victory to the people.

Which means that China is much more peaceful than USA (NATO). That is a good sign and someone to team up with.

In that case there was lots of peace in Nazi concentration camps. You confuse fearful oppressed populations run by dictators with peaceful societies. A mistake the Germans and Italians made in the 30s. You appear to be a troll or genuinely witless.