Scooters in Chiang Mai - Good Idea or Bad Idea?

[teflonwulfie]

Hey there! I have a one-way ticket booked for Chiang Mai May 12th and am excited to finally get there. I've been looking up as much information as I can on the area, maps, and how to get around and the one thing that keeps sticking out is how most people seem to rent scooters. But I've also looked at some videos of traffic and it looks TERRIFYING and I'm used to driving in Atlanta traffic up and down 6 lane Interstates. I'm also a little unclear on the actual laws. It seems like no one has trouble renting or driving these scooters, but they also don't have Thai driver's licenses or international licenses - how are they getting away with that?

My main question is, do you recommend renting a scooter to get around? If so - why?

Secondly, for those of you who don't rent scooters to get around, is it fairly economical to simply get taxis anywhere you need to go? If so - how much would you estimate you spend per month?

Thanks!

[masuk]

Ensure that you have good medical and hospital insurance, and that you have a current motor cycle licence, and are covered for motorbike accidents. It's a very real thing here.

Running red lights is a hazard of this place, along with other very strange driving habits.

It's not something I'd care to do. I'll stay with 4 wheels. Public transport around the city is 20 baht.

Sure, a bike is great for getting around the countryside,so it depends what your plans are.

[zeichen]

Are an experienced motorcycle rider?

Do you have health insurance?

Are you staying for a week, a month a year?

Are you staying out of town?

Have you ever driven on the other side of the road to what you are used to?

If the answer is no to all of these, then no I wouldn't recommend it, but you can still do it and be fine.

Oh, by the way, you do realize that you will have trouble coming to Thailand on a way one ticekt if you don't have a proper visa.

To answer your other questions. Every single tourist that comes here and drives a scooter is doing so illegally, but doesn't really matter as they don't usually check. Most police if they pull you over and you have a drivers license from your country will let you pass. Though technically without a motorcycle license and international license, they could fine you. They usually (99%) don't.

Most rental shops will demand you give them either a large deposit 4-5k baht or more or surrender your passport which I would never do.

Most people get by with walking, biking, or taking the local version of a taxi (red trucks) or tuk tuk. Unless you travel around a lot, it is not financially worth it to rent a motorcycle.

[Mcffee]

It's only safe if your scooter is at least a 125cc and if you know how to drive crazier then the Thais. If you are afraid, don't! Traffic in ChiangMai is like a battle, or either you win, or you loose.

[Loptr]

Driving in Atlanta traffic in no way prepares you for the way traffic flows in Thailand... Think of it as a fluid, like water, naam... Wherever there is a gap, someone will fill it, whether it's a reasonable thing to do or not...

My advice is to stick to the center of town for a while and ride the songtaews, tuk tuk, ride a bicycle or just walk... Once you get your bearings, then think about getting a Thai drivers license and renting a scooter...

[teflonwulfie]

I was thinking of looking for a place to live around the front of Chiang Mai University (near Lanna Muay Thai gym - not that the reason I'm going is strictly due to martial arts). For everybody telling me not to rent a scooter, could you give me an idea on how much I'd pay just using taxis? I work from home and would of course be going out to eat and needing to get around the area - may go out on the weekends. Do you think like $5, $10, $20 a day? What did you spend when you first got there?

[teflonwulfie]

Are an experienced motorcycle rider?

Do you have health insurance?

Are you staying for a week, a month a year?

Are you staying out of town?

Have you ever driven on the other side of the road to what you are used to?

If the answer is no to all of these, then no I wouldn't recommend it, but you can still do it and be fine.

Oh, by the way, you do realize that you will have trouble coming to Thailand on a way one ticekt if you don't have a proper visa.

To answer your other questions. Every single tourist that comes here and drives a scooter is doing so illegally, but doesn't really matter as they don't usually check. Most police if they pull you over and you have a drivers license from your country will let you pass. Though technically without a motorcycle license and international license, they could fine you. They usually (99%) don't.

Most rental shops will demand you give them either a large deposit 4-5k baht or more or surrender your passport which I would never do.

Most people get by with walking, biking, or taking the local version of a taxi (red trucks) or tuk tuk. Unless you travel around a lot, it is not financially worth it to rent a motorcycle.

Why would I have trouble with a one-way ticket? I'm flying out of the United States. Later this month I'm going to get a Multi-entry Visa (at least that's my plan). Is that supposed to be difficult or something? All the research I've done just tells me to grab a multi-entry Visa and get it renewed every 90 days by flying out to a neighboring country (which doesn't bother me).

[amexpat]

It's only safe if your scooter is at least a 125cc and if you know how to drive crazier then the Thais. If you are afraid, don't! Traffic in ChiangMai is like a battle, or either you win, or you loose.

C'mon, Mac. The OP could take you seriously.

[TheAppletons]

Why would I have trouble with a one-way ticket? I'm flying out of the United States. Later this month I'm going to get a Multi-entry Visa (at least that's my plan). Is that supposed to be difficult or something? All the research I've done just tells me to grab a multi-entry Visa and get it renewed every 90 days by flying out to a neighboring country (which doesn't bother me).

The one-way ticket reference is due to airlines being leery of travelers who don't have a visa or proof that they are leaving the country within 30 days....but since you intend to obtain a visa prior to traveling (at least that's how I'm interpreting your post) then it shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't rent transportation then you'll probably do like many and ride in a songthaew from place to place. This is a local form of taxi that is a covered red pick-up truck with bench seats in the back - there are hundreds combing the city. You simply flag one down, state where you're going, hop in, pay 20 baht (usually) when you get out. You'll be riding with other people and the truck will make various stops to accommodate the other passengers so it's not the most direct route but it's not costly either. (See attached image.)

Tuk-tuks are another local "taxi" option - sort of like being driven in a high powered golf cart. (If you've been to Mazatlan, they are similar to the pulmonias there.) More expensive than songthaews but faster as you are the only passenger. (Price is negotiable.)

Chiang Mai is also very walkable.

Regarding how much you'll pay per month for transport, it really depends upon your level of activity and how far you want to go. I don't have my own transportation in Chiang Mai and pay, on average, less than 500 thb/month on songthaew/tuk-tuk transportation. That's about $16 U.S. per month.

(The only time anyone I know uses "regular" air conditioned automobile taxis - like you see in the U.S. - is when going to or from the airport.)

Your decision if you want to rent a scooter but if you've never ridden one before and you've never driven on the left side of the road before.....

[jonwilly]

Hum !

I ride my scooter every day.

Bike rider since I turned 16 over 50 years ago.

Dangerous Yes.

But then so is walking or any other form of living.

Some years back I was down the garage where I have my bikes serviced and many Bikers where around.

They started a conversation on how many guys they knew who had died in bike accidents. Lot of blokes.

Then they started on how many they knew had died in Cars.

Strange many more had died in 4 wheeled transport, many more.

And me too I know more who died in a car then on 2 wheels.

john

But Yes Dangerous. And anyone learning to ride in CM would be mental.

[amexpat]

And anyone learning to ride in CM would be mental.

I did.

[elektrified]

I would not recommend driving a motorcycle in Thailand. They are extremely dangerous. The drivers here have no regard for others. A friend of mine here who is an experienced motorcycle rider was in a very bad accident a year or so ago. The driver of the car that hit him was watching a movie on the TV in his car at the time. He told the police "he never saw the motorcycle". Yes, people have TV's in their cars here. My friend had multiple broken bones, lost a lot of blood, etc. It took him about 10 months to fully recover. The medical bills were very high.

We gave up riding motorcycles here about 2 years ago. We still use one of them to go to the store or restaurant inside the moobaan - that's it.

Make sure you purchase a good medical or travel insurance policy either before arriving or as soon as you get here. A hospital stay is not as cheap as it once was!

[teflonwulfie]

I would not recommend driving a motorcycle in Thailand. They are extremely dangerous. The drivers here have no regard for others. A friend of mine here who is an experienced motorcycle rider was in a very bad accident a year or so ago. The driver of the car that hit him was watching a movie on the TV in his car at the time. He told the police "he never saw the motorcycle". Yes, people have TV's in their cars here. My friend had multiple broken bones, lost a lot of blood, etc. It took him about 10 months to fully recover. The medical bills were very high.

We gave up riding motorcycles here about 2 years ago. We still use one of them to go to the store or restaurant inside the moobaan - that's it.

Make sure you purchase a good medical or travel insurance policy either before arriving or as soon as you get here. A hospital stay is not as cheap as it once was!

I was thinking of getting World Nomad travel insurance before I shipped out, do you know anything about that? If I remember correctly (have to check) one of the few things they don't cover is motorcycle accidents if you're not fully legal with everything.

I was wondering about using one inside the city and not on the highways. Like, just get a little vespa to get around the side roads and stuff for nearby areas - would that be a good idea?

[jonwilly]

"And anyone learning to ride in CM would be mental. I did."

I take it you agree.

john

[zeichen]

As explained the one way ticket will give people who don't have a visa difficulty. If you have a proper visa from the Thai consulate in the US before leaving, you will be fine. However, I don't think that you are accurate about a 90 day visa. Unless things have changed tourist visas are 60 days and can be exteneded for 30 days for 2k baht at immigration. So perhaps that is what you mean by getting 90 days. I also thought that they only would provide a dual entry tourist visa, not a multiple entry.

If you have a non immigrant visa like an ED visa, then you can get multiple entry 90 days. You don't need to fly out though. You can easily take a bus up to Myanmar from CM in a day to get stamped in and out.

As for cost of local transportation, get a bicycle. Near CMU a lot of people ride bicycles and there are a few groups that do long distance rides. If you walk some, ride your bike, take the occassional tuk tuk or red truk, then you will proably spend less than 1000 baht a month on transportation. If you are outgoing, you will make friends quickly and usually get rides.

Vespa are 3-5x as expensive as Honda motorcycles. They have less power and are not as controllable. Personally, I love to drive motorcycle and drive more than 100km a day. I have been driving here for more than 15 years and have never had an injury. I have been hit a few times, but mostly by other motorcycle drivers. I was aware it was going to happen so I mitigated the damage to myself. Being aware and always responsive is important.

If you choose a motorcycle, you will adjust, you will feel more mobile and free to go and do what you want when you want. But you do put yourself in a higher risk bracket. It is something that you will need to decide for yourself. Wait until you have been here for a few weeks before getting into a lengthy contract.

[happy Joe]

Rent a scooter CM is a good idea.

Of course, there are some risks and caution is advised but we also come here for a little adventure.

The scooter allows you to escape the ghetto tourist center and discover this beautiful city according to your desire. Also escape the laborious discussions with taxis and other tuc tuc, all at low cost, between 100 and 300 baht per day.

Again, how do the Thais? They overwhelmingly choose two wheels for good reason certainly close to your concerns.

[NotEinstein]

You have to evaluate the rewards v the risks.

The freedom that a motorcycle provides obviously allows you to go anywhere, but you could die in the process.

A long-time US bike rider, who has been here for 7+ years was hospitalized the other day by a university student driving a car with no licence. She pulled out of a side road in front of him. "I didn't see him"......

The choice is yours.

[northernjohn]

I now have no vehicle and no intention of getting one. I am a very good driver but at my age I realize that I am no longer capable of being observant enough of other vehicles on the road. Many of them do not realize there are other vehicles on the road. In stead of them watching out for you they completely depend on you to watch out for them.

As for cost of transportation I have no idea. Some times a thousand a month some times 500 some times more. Makes no difference it is still cheaper than buying or renting. I do admit it can be a little hard to find in some areas or some areas the cost to get there will be high. How ever it is still cheaper. The area you are looking at is a piece of cake for cheap transportation. Also lot's in walking distance.

[elektrified]

I would not recommend driving a motorcycle in Thailand. They are extremely dangerous. The drivers here have no regard for others. A friend of mine here who is an experienced motorcycle rider was in a very bad accident a year or so ago. The driver of the car that hit him was watching a movie on the TV in his car at the time. He told the police "he never saw the motorcycle". Yes, people have TV's in their cars here. My friend had multiple broken bones, lost a lot of blood, etc. It took him about 10 months to fully recover. The medical bills were very high.

We gave up riding motorcycles here about 2 years ago. We still use one of them to go to the store or restaurant inside the moobaan - that's it.

Make sure you purchase a good medical or travel insurance policy either before arriving or as soon as you get here. A hospital stay is not as cheap as it once was!

I was thinking of getting World Nomad travel insurance before I shipped out, do you know anything about that? If I remember correctly (have to check) one of the few things they don't cover is motorcycle accidents if you're not fully legal with everything.

I was wondering about using one inside the city and not on the highways. Like, just get a little vespa to get around the side roads and stuff for nearby areas - would that be a good idea?

I don't know that company personally but there are a number of very good U.S. insurance companies that provide travel/accident/medical insurance for up to one year. Yes, you are correct, most do NOT cover motorcycle accidents.

Motorcycle accidents/driving only on the city roads vs. on the highways doesn't mean it is safer/less dangerous. My friend I wrote about above was on a city road going about 40 km/hr when he was hit.

[masuk]

Rent a scooter CM is a good idea.

Of course, there are some risks and caution is advised but we also come here for a little adventure.

The scooter allows you to escape the ghetto tourist center and discover this beautiful city according to your desire. Also escape the laborious discussions with taxis and other tuc tuc, all at low cost, between 100 and 300 baht per day.

Again, how do the Thais? They overwhelmingly choose two wheels for good reason certainly close to your concerns.

It should be mentioned that the Thais, like many other Asians, dislike walking. In the cooler, drier weather, it's quite pleasant to explore around the city, the shops, the temples. Bicycle might be a nice way to do this.

Bicycle helmets don't seem to be used much, and I don't know if they are available here.

Many motor cyclists put a lot of trust in faith, and won't wear helmets. After dark, about 90% won't put them on. just hang them on the handlebars. The police do snap raids almost every day, and take a $3.00 fine (8 hours wages) which it is suspected does not go into the nation's Treasury.

[CMKiwi]

As has been mentioned, riding motorcycles can be hazardous to your health in Chiang Mai (if not the whole of Thailand/Asia). I also agree that it is the easiest way to get around the city especially with all the narrow soi`s (Streets) in the old town. Scooter rental is quite cheap and a good one can be had for about 300 baht a day. Some do ask for your passport (In which case I`d advise you to try elsewhere) and others ask for a deposit (Between 2000-5000 baht);

Generally transportation around the city is easy to get via many forms. But sometimes the drivers do try and put one over you. Easy to walk away and grab another "taxi" if that happens.

Personally I`d go the scooter route. When I first arrived just 3 years ago, I used tuk tuks and songthaews. It was ok but I found I didnt have the freedom I wanted. When I changed and hired a scooter I had to shop around as a lot of shops wanted to retain my passport and there was no way I was going to let that happen. I managed to get a late model Honda Click for 3000 a month. Only problems I had was punctures but nothing to worry about with the actual bike. There are lots of places to get tyre repairs done, although some customers take the bike back to the rental agent and ask them to repair (Surprisingly a lot of them do so at no cost to the user)

If you do go the scooter option ensure you always wear a good helmet, even if it means buying your own. Ive seen locals with construction helmets, plastic bins and even bicycle helmets and they offer F.A. protection should you fall. A good pair of gloves is also recommended as is footware that covers your toes. Some will say that wearing all that is a bit over the top..... until they fall off! No one intends to have an accident but it happens and your extremities are generally the first to get injured. Im am somewhat surprised by the amount of tourists I see with road rash. Nothing serious as an injury but geez it stings like heck when it happens, plus the risk of infection is higher here than back home.

When riding here you have to have eyes in the back of your head, prepare for the unexpected and always be ready for an emergency stop. After a while that becomes second nature and then you really start to enjoy your travels. Oh and your rear vision mirrors are your friend.... saved me many a time when waiting for a green light. As some have said..... lots of red light runners here and naturally they dont see you.

Good luck

[uptheos]

I have a friend who is leaving tomorrow for Japan.

He came here on a one way ticket and didn't get asked any questions by the airline or immigration.

He booked his flight to Japan from here as he wasn't sure of the exact date he would be going.

[Konini]

I was thinking of getting World Nomad travel insurance before I shipped out, do you know anything about that? If I remember correctly (have to check) one of the few things they don't cover is motorcycle accidents if you're not fully legal with everything.

I was wondering about using one inside the city and not on the highways. Like, just get a little vespa to get around the side roads and stuff for nearby areas - would that be a good idea?

We have World Nomads, OK for bikes and we're happy with them but your key words are FULLY LEGAL. To be fully legal here is to have an International Driver Licence used in combination with your home driver licence. If you haven't passed your motorbike test in your home country (or if the clerk who issues your International doesn't endorse it with motorbike - happened to us one year about a decade ago, fortunately we picked up on it and had it corrected before going to Indonesia where the law is the same) then you are not legal.

So many people will tell you the international driver licence isn't worth messing about with - you have to go in person to the issuing authority in your country, usually an auto-mobile association - and if you don't mind being fined by police if stopped then perhaps it isn't, but if you have an accident you will not be covered for anything as you are not complying with local laws. The fine print in insurance policies is very clear. Local laws also allow for one drink for the average person before driving.

[Mousehound]

I would suggest that for the first few weeks you will want to be really checking the place out and my experience is that I spent 300 to 1500 Bht per day on transport. This included trips out of town to Doi Inthanon and Chiang Dao and the hire of a sorngtao for the day. Mostly about 300bht per day. Now there are two of us, so that could double. Therefore a powerful scooter could be the answer. The freedom to get where you want and explore the back alleys is attractive to me as I now know CM pretty well. I spent a lot of time learning to ride a scooter in my home country first, with the deliberate decision to have a scooter in CM. I also have the advantage of driving on the left being natural for me. I then hired a car for two weeks to get the feel of the CM traffic. This was a great advantage - I can tell you get an adrenaline rush for the first two or three days driving in CM. Now I am fairly confident that I have a chance of survival but I wear gloves, helmet, jacket and long trousers as well as short boots. None of this bare feet lark for me! Also if I am out at night and have a drink or two I don't drive. In fact I avoid night driving wherever possible but have driven in the country quite a lot at night time. Remember that motorbikes fill the wards of western hospitals and that Thailand has ten times the accident rate than most western countries. Just like martial arts it's all about practice, preparation and discipline.

[NotEinstein]

You have to evaluate the rewards v the risks. The freedom that a motorcycle provides obviously allows you to go anywhere, but you could die in the process. A long-time US bike rider, who has been here for 7+ years was hospitalized the other day by a university student driving a car with no licence. She pulled out of a side road in front of him. "I didn't see him"...... The choice is yours.

The reason why the standard of road proficiency and amount of accidents won't change any time soon is that, in the aftermath of the above mentioned accident, the police didn't arrive until the dust had settled, i.e. student with no licence, so the mother was then officially driving. All consequences thereby being mimimised, so it can all be quickly forgotten.

Many by-standers took in the whole process and didn't bat an eyelid. Thainess in action.

I once saw the result of a fatal motorcycle accident, where the licence plate was swapped with the victim's brother's bike because it was insured.....

[Greenside]

Just to distill the above advice into easy points:

• Riding a motorbike or scooter (or pushbike) can be hazardous anywhere, but far more so in Asia. It's also very convenient and most people value personal transport enough to take the risks.
• Get an International License that qualifies you to ride a motorbike before you leave home - it will save you hassle and potential grief.
• Make sure you buy good quality insurance that will cover you for renting and riding a bike and then comply with all the fine print (wear a helmet, have the right license etc). Repatriation in the event of a serious accident is worth having if you're here on your own.
• Buy a better helmet than the one the rental shop offers you.
• Prepare to spend some time understanding what you're in for - don't check in to a guesthouse and rent a bike from the lobby on day one.
• Be super careful when riding. Especially at night....

The standard of driving for locals is very poor. The test to get a license is so basic as to be meaningless and the penalty for driving without one is less than $10 so you can be confident that many people speeding past you on the highway haven't bothered.

[JulieM]

Another option is to walk everywhere you go. You see a lot more that way. But it does take time. I gave up the bikes a few years ago. I rode one for 10 years without an accident but I had two friends seriously hurt in bike accidents. They both spent months in the hospital.

But, if you are an experienced bike rider and a defensive driver you should be OK. My friends drove way too aggressively and they paid the price.

[CMKiwi]

Another option is to walk everywhere you go. You see a lot more that way. But it does take time. I gave up the bikes a few years ago. I rode one for 10 years without an accident but I had two friends seriously hurt in bike accidents. They both spent months in the hospital.

But, if you are an experienced bike rider and a defensive driver you should be OK. My friends drove way too aggressively and they paid the price.

You rode a bike for 10 years? Wow I take my hat off to you.... Im lucky if I can keep going for 3 hours!

Just joking, and agree about defensive driving vs aggressive driving. One will get you in trouble whereas the other will keep you out of it.

[MrBrad]

I second Greenside's opinions in post #26 above. If you have room for it in your luggage, you might consider bringing a helmet along from the States.

Some helmets here cost less than $15, and the protection offered is worthless; the cycle rental places usually include these kinds of helmets in the rental package. It takes a bit of running around town to find a really good helmet. As I mention, you're best off bringing one from home. It's one less thing to sort out here.

Do spend money--perhaps a minimum of $150--for a good helmet. You will want one with chin protection, as opposed to just having a visor in front of you with nothing below the visor. Your head is certainly worth more than whatever amount you spend. And, of course, make sure you wear it all the time with the chin strap securely fastened.

[teflonwulfie]

Thanks for the awesome information everybody. I just looked up how to get an International Driver's Permit - will be applying first thing next week. Doesn't look like a very long or arduous process at all.

One more quick question - you're able to legally drive for 60 days with an IDP in Thailand from what I've read. Does that "60 day legality" renew once you renew your tourist visa through a visa run? Like - you leave the country, come back, and you're good for another 60 days of legal driving?