Practical Experience of Schengen for spouse of EU citizen application?

[DrChopper]

I (UK) am travelling to Italy with my Wife (Thai).

I unrderstand the differences in the application (no fee, lesser information needed, quicker processing time). My question relates to the EU spouse's passport in the application process. I appreciate the need to validate that the spouse is really from the EU, but do they really require the spouse's original passport?

If so, how does that play with the requirement to have your passport to hand in Thailand?

I would prefer to provide a copy of my passport if possible as I travel frequently.

Does anyone have practical experience of this and can advise?

Edited April 24, 2015 by DrChopper

[theoldgit]

All you need is a copy, and it's as you say it's to prove you're an EU national.

I did it recently via the Dutch Consulate and the Italian last year, both pretty painless but the Dutch were far better.

[DrChopper]

Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

We are stuck with the IT embassy as the vast majority of our trip will be there.

[mikebell]

Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

We are stuck with the IT embassy as the vast majority of our trip will be there.

Could you not get the Visa from the helpful Dutch then use it to enter Italy? I intend to apply later this year but as yet haven't decided on a European country yet. She has a 5 yr visitors UK Visa so we would be leaving UK for Spain or France after visiting family in England.

[Donutz]

You would need to apply at the embassy of the country that is going to be your main destination. You might (genuinly) change your plans after the visa has been issued though. But they may ask you what you'd be doing with a Dutch issued visa traveling to Italy. Ofcourse as the spouse of an EU national they could not stop the Thai national from entering Italy together. The Dutch might not be so amuzed if they found out that people are oy applying there because they are the most friendly, easiest and helpful to deal with. How long would they maintain such standards?

[merijn]

FYI: Forget the German consul on Phuket.

They bluntly refused the application for my wife's visa on ground of marriage to a EU national.

They confirmed that i was entitled to it but that they would not accept it.

Instead they forced us to use the normal application route with all required papers.

[sandyf]

FYI: Forget the German consul on Phuket.

They bluntly refused the application for my wife's visa on ground of marriage to a EU national.

They confirmed that i was entitled to it but that they would not accept it.

Instead they forced us to use the normal application route with all required papers.

That is a bit disconcerting, I will have to do a German visa for my wife shortly.

[Donutz]

And you let them walk all over you rather then contacting the embassy in BKK and/or Solvit? :/

[merijn]

And you let them walk all over you rather then contacting the embassy in BKK and/or Solvit? :/

As we needed the visa and i had all the paperwork we had no choice to provide all of them for a normal visa, which was granted in a few days.

But afterwards i send letters to the German embassy and the government in Germany about the actions of the German consul in Phuket.

Received a standard b*s reply that they where sorry for the inconvenience we had.

[sandyf]

And you let them walk all over you rather then contacting the embassy in BKK and/or Solvit? :/

As we needed the visa and i had all the paperwork we had no choice to provide all of them for a normal visa, which was granted in a few days.

But afterwards i send letters to the German embassy and the government in Germany about the actions of the German consul in Phuket.

Received a standard b*s reply that they where sorry for the inconvenience we had.

I take it as read that you did not get a refund on the visa fee.

We will be making the application to the embassy in BKK so I am hoping from your post that there is less likely to be a problem there.

[7by7]

And you let them walk all over you rather then contacting the embassy in BKK and/or Solvit? :/

As we needed the visa and i had all the paperwork we had no choice to provide all of them for a normal visa, which was granted in a few days.

But afterwards i send letters to the German embassy and the government in Germany about the actions of the German consul in Phuket.

Received a standard b*s reply that they where sorry for the inconvenience we had.

Perhaps a complaint to Solvit will elicit a better response; including a possible refund of any fee as the visa should have been free.

It should also hopefully ensure the consulate abide by the rules in future.

It's what Solvit are there for.

Edited April 29, 2015 by 7by7

[merijn]

And you let them walk all over you rather then contacting the embassy in BKK and/or Solvit? :/

As we needed the visa and i had all the paperwork we had no choice to provide all of them for a normal visa, which was granted in a few days.

But afterwards i send letters to the German embassy and the government in Germany about the actions of the German consul in Phuket.

Received a standard b*s reply that they where sorry for the inconvenience we had.

I take it as read that you did not get a refund on the visa fee.

We will be making the application to the embassy in BKK so I am hoping from your post that there is less likely to be a problem there.

Correct, I did not get any refund off-course.

I think that this was more a issue at the German consul then the Embassy so hopefully you have more luck.

This is the first time i hear about Solvit ?

Can anybody explains to me how this works, and if it maybe to late as we did this visa a while ago.

[Donutz]

Solvit is the EU's ombudsman, you can contact via the information at the bottom of the following page:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

It might be too late for a refunded (you would have been entitled to one) but at the very least it means a negative mark for the German's. If it appears that an EU embassy is regulary violating the rules then the European Commission may look into it and take approperiate action. Solvit itself being 'just' an ombudsman has no powers (cannot fine, enforce rules etc.) but it will do it's best to resolve issues such as violation by incompetent, ignorant or unwilling EU members (embassies etc.).

[sandyf]

FYI: Forget the German consul on Phuket.

They bluntly refused the application for my wife's visa on ground of marriage to a EU national.

They confirmed that i was entitled to it but that they would not accept it.

Instead they forced us to use the normal application route with all required papers.

I think I can see the problem. The German embassy uses an online application called VIDEX which I have just completed. The form does not allow for an application based on the spouse of an EU national. There is a question on the form asking if related to an EU national but the form does not respond to the answer, so there is no way to make the application on that basis.

I find it hard to believe that this has not been addressed and dealt with.

I suspect I may end up in the same boat, They address the application as standard on the basis it is computerised and cannot alter it, and then offer an apology if you complain.

[DrChopper]

We are gearing up to apply for her spouse visa next week.

Given that we dont need to supply financial, travel insurance or flight/hotel details I just wanted to sanity check what we do need to supply. Seems to be just the applicaiton form, photos her passport and a copy of my passport. That seems kind of light, are we missing anything?

[Donutz]

It's supposed to be simple, but what you also need in addition to her passport, your passport (copy) and applicationform (skip questioms marked with *) : evidence of family relation (such as by marriage) and evidence of her joining you on the trip (such as a writtenststement if you, some embassies insist on transport/hotel bookings even though those questioms are marked with an *).

If you wish to make sure, check the embassy's website, some are more bureaucratic then others and may request more then the bare minimum. Giving them such extra items even though strictly speaking not mandatory requirements, would make the application go more smoothly rather then risking a visa denial and then getting Solvit involved to set them straight. Some embassies just love bureaucracy too much...

[sandyf]

We are gearing up to apply for her spouse visa next week.

Given that we dont need to supply financial, travel insurance or flight/hotel details I just wanted to sanity check what we do need to supply. Seems to be just the applicaiton form, photos her passport and a copy of my passport. That seems kind of light, are we missing anything?

Italy is done in the VFS Silom office, we did Spain last year in the same office. The main problem will be the marriage certificate, they have to accept it as being legal so it will probably need to be certified by MFA. Mine is from the UK GRO which threw them a bit but we got over it.

Once you are established as EU national and spouse it is plain sailing. I think you will need to show return tickets, we had to. It is the financial, insurance and hotel that are not required. You should check the VFS website for Italy.

Edit

Are you going to mainland Italy or an Island? We went to Tenerife and the initial problem was they could not find Tenerife on the map of Spain. They check the tickets to the country concerned.

Edited May 2, 2015 by sandyf

[Donutz]

Lol, that is why I would avoid an optional VAC (visa application office) run by VFS or TLS and directly at the embassy instead. You can apply at the Italian, Spanish, ... embassy as per instructions found on the website of the embassies. More competent staff plus no service fee.

Proof of transport is optional, it's also an * marked question. Some embassies love bureaucracy so much that they wish to see such evidence anyway. You could either argue with them that there is no such need if you make evident by other means that your spouse will join you, or submit the unneccesary documents if that's not too much effort.

Edit: return tickets are never required, not even for regular applications. A reservation will do and for EU/EEA there is no requirement to show proof of single/return journey only that you make evident that your Thai spouse travels with you (EU national). Infact such a visa cannot be denied on grounds such as "failure to make evident of timely return".

Edited May 2, 2015 by Donutz

[sandyf]

Lol, that is why I would avoid an optional VAC (visa application office) run by VFS or TLS and directly at the embassy instead. You can apply at the Italian, Spanish, ... embassy as per instructions found on the website of the embassies. More competent staff plus no service fee.

Proof of transport is optional, it's also an * marked question. Some embassies love bureaucracy so much that they wish to see such evidence anyway. You could either argue with them that there is no such need if you make evident by other means that your spouse will join you, or submit the unneccesary documents if that's not too much effort.

Edit: return tickets are never required, not even for regular applications. A reservation will do and for EU/EEA there is no requirement to show proof of single/return journey only that you make evident that your Thai spouse travels with you (EU national). Infact such a visa cannot be denied on grounds such as "failure to make evident of timely return".

First point. I did request an appointment at the Spanish Embassy and was told I would have to get in touch with VFS. You quote the rule book and demand your rights, how far is that likely to get you, an appointment in 6 /8 weeks time?

Last point.

When I was at the VFS office there was a Russian woman at the next counter. VFS were refusing to accept her application on the grounds she did not have a return ticket. She had a ticket to Spain and a ticket from Spain to Moscow, the VFS crib sheet says you must be in possession of return tickets to Thailand. She was arguing the toss when I went in and still there and getting nowhere when I left.

That was a year ago so hopefully they have been shown the error of their ways.

Going to an Embassy is not all that straight forward. I am currently doing an application for Germany and their computer system does not allow for application as EU national and spouse. Will see the outcome of that next week.

People should realise that what is written and what happens in reality are completely separate. Invariably time constraints will dictate the most expedient course of action.

[theoldgit]

I did request an appointment at the Spanish Embassy and was told I would have to get in touch with VFS. You quote the rule book and demand your rights, how far is that likely to get you, an appointment in 6 /8 weeks time?

I take your point, but you might be interested to read my email exchange with the Spanish Visa Section.

To: [email protected]

Dear Sir or Madam

Re: Schengen Visa Application

I wish to schedule an appointment to lodge an application for a short term Schengen Visa directly at The Spanish Embassy rather than through the Visa Facilitation Service.

I make this request under Article 17 of the Schengen Agreement.

I look forward to receiving confirmation of my appointment at your earliest convenience.

Thank you

theoldgit

I received this reply the following day.

Dear theoldgit

APPOINTMENT TO SUBMIT A VISA APPLICATION

Your request has been accepted. Please print this e-mail and submit your visa application on the following date:

DATE OF APPOINTMENT

One week hence

TIME

11.00 hrs.

[Donutz]

Sandy the Spsnish instructions on the VFS site also mention direct access (mailing to the embassy and allowing to apply there) so it is very much possible and the Spanish publically acknowledge this. Not always smoothly though (see topics fromm 2014 here on visa for Spain). If the Spanish do it right they offer a direct appointment at the embassy on a date within two weeks of the request just as they are required to. If for some reason this gets you nowhere you could either contact Solvit or be practical and turn to VFS.

Second point: if it was a regular application they would wish to see reservations of a return ticket. The visa rules do not demand to buy an actual ticket and many embassies explictly warn not to buy tickets before the visa is issued but to provide a booking/reservation instead. For regular applications they will want to see that you will return to Thailand, via Russia should be possible though if you show you can or will get access to Russia and then back to TH. For such less common applications I would never want to deal with less experienced VFS or TLS staff but face the embassy directly. Note that just as with UK visas, the outsourced partners are just paperpushers or glorified postoffice, they cannot argue what is or is not submitted (only advice) , they simply need to accept the papers, put them in an envelop and sent it to the embassy for proccessing. But again, EU Spouse applixations do not neer to show reasons of return or any ticket reservations. You might if you have but if the Spanish do a proper job they must accept a statement from the EU spouse regarding traveling together and reasons for return is not a factor to be taken into account. The EU spouse visa could only be refused incase of fraud, not being eligable (applicant is not a family member of an EU national, not traveling or joining the EU spouse in an other EU nation, the people involved cannot be Identified). If you wish to submit more paperwork because they would ask, you can ofcourse be practical and submit this and consider a formal complaint to them or the EU (Solvit) to try and maje the embassy provide a better service in the future.

So I would tell people be aware of their rights and official requirements, then check the embassy's website and after that the page of VFS/TLS. See if their instructions are what you'd ecpect them to be and officially should be. If not consider if you'd wish to play along (consider formal complaints to the embassy and EU) or if you are better off bringing it up with the embassy if that saves you time/money/hassle. Know your rights and then take the course of action you feel comfortable with.

Edit: as for the Russian lady: a reservation of tickets from

Thailand to Spain to Russia should be okay but a Russian citizen cannot apply from

TH unless it would be unreasinable for her to apply from Russia or unless the embassy wishes to grand a favour. Tourists cannot apply, you need to be a legal resident to apply at a Schengen embassy. So unless she had Legal ressidence is TH they Spanish could chose to refuse the application.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Donutz

[sandyf]

I did request an appointment at the Spanish Embassy and was told I would have to get in touch with VFS. You quote the rule book and demand your rights, how far is that likely to get you, an appointment in 6 /8 weeks time?

I take your point, but you might be interested to read my email exchange with the Spanish Visa Section.

To: [email protected]

Dear Sir or Madam

Re: Schengen Visa Application

I wish to schedule an appointment to lodge an application for a short term Schengen Visa directly at The Spanish Embassy rather than through the Visa Facilitation Service.

I make this request under Article 17 of the Schengen Agreement.

I look forward to receiving confirmation of my appointment at your earliest convenience.

Thank you

theoldgit

I received this reply the following day.

Dear theoldgit

APPOINTMENT TO SUBMIT A VISA APPLICATION

Your request has been accepted. Please print this e-mail and submit your visa application on the following date:

DATE OF APPOINTMENT

One week hence

TIME

11.00 hrs.

That is good constructive information, you were certainly more specific in your request than I was. I just wonder how valid it would be today. VFS has not been with the Spanish embassy for very long and they may have been a bit more lenient in the early days. But certainly no harm in trying.

When it comes to options, reality and personal circumstances come into play and the last thing anyone wants to hear is how they should have done it

It is a sad state of affairs when people cannot relate an experience without it being torn apart by the armchair experts. Surely prospective applicants should be warned of the pitfalls that are likely to arise. It is of little benefit being told that you can complain if it all goes wrong.

[Donutz]

I agree that it's useful or even important to know common pitfalls or violations by embassies that don't give a damn about proper procedures (which Spain is notorious for) . As said, know the rules, rights and hurdles that you may encounter, then act accordingly. I myself had no issue getting an appointment at the embassy. The Spanish embassy mailed us that we had to go to VFS, I replied that I did not want to do so as there is no such requirement and then they offered to apply at the embassy.

[7by7]

Indeed, it is important for prospective applicants and sponsors to be made aware of the possible malpractice to which they may be subjected.

It is just as important for them to be told what to do if they are subjected to that malpractice.

Complaints to the relevant authority after the fact are also important. I can't remember which embassy it was, but I do recall reports on another forum of one EU embassy in London being told to mend it's ways after complaints about the way it insisted that non EEA national family members of British citizens resident in the UK make an appointment via a premium rate phone line to submit their visa application.

If people complain about poor treatment; something might be done; if enough complain, something will be done.

If no one complains, nothing will be done.

[sandyf]

FYI: Forget the German consul on Phuket.

They bluntly refused the application for my wife's visa on ground of marriage to a EU national.

They confirmed that i was entitled to it but that they would not accept it.

Instead they forced us to use the normal application route with all required papers.

I am really glad you posted this, it made me take a really close look at the process. We will go the embassy prepared to make the standard application if that is the case. Had I not picked up on this chances are it would have been a double trip to the embassy.

If I have interpreted this correctly then there is nothing I or the embassy can do about it. Appears to be a standard application, take it or leave it.

[merijn]

FYI: Forget the German consul on Phuket.

They bluntly refused the application for my wife's visa on ground of marriage to a EU national.

They confirmed that i was entitled to it but that they would not accept it.

Instead they forced us to use the normal application route with all required papers.

I am really glad you posted this, it made me take a really close look at the process. We will go the embassy prepared to make the standard application if that is the case. Had I not picked up on this chances are it would have been a double trip to the embassy.

If I have interpreted this correctly then there is nothing I or the embassy can do about it. Appears to be a standard application, take it or leave it.

I don't know if it is a standard procedure from the German Consul or from the Thai lady working there.

This was the time that the German consul was sick and afterwards stepped down, maybe this has something to do with it but i don't think so.

[teatree]

You would need to apply at the embassy of the country that is going to be your main destination. You might (genuinly) change your plans after the visa has been issued though. But they may ask you what you'd be doing with a Dutch issued visa traveling to Italy. Ofcourse as the spouse of an EU national they could not stop the Thai national from entering Italy together. The Dutch might not be so amuzed if they found out that people are oy applying there because they are the most friendly, easiest and helpful to deal with. How long would they maintain such standards?

Wouldn't the Dutch embassy be getting a cut out of the visa fee to cover the manpower in processing the visas?

If so there is potentially a very lucrative business - think of the millions of baht being made by embassies in Bangok every day. Could well be in the interest of the Dutch to be so fair in their issuance of visas.

Let's face facts, embassies are essentially businesses.

[Donutz]

An EU/EEA spouse visa is entirely free (unless you chose the optional service provider VFS or TLS, which charge a service fee). So such applications cost the embassy time and money, if anything embassies are reluctant to issue such a visa for these reasons (an others such as being unfamiliar or not wishing to give up the bureacracy involved as found with regular applications).

[7by7]

Wouldn't the Dutch embassy be getting a cut out of the visa fee to cover the manpower in processing the visas?

If so there is potentially a very lucrative business - think of the millions of baht being made by embassies in Bangok every day. Could well be in the interest of the Dutch to be so fair in their issuance of visas.

Let's face facts, embassies are essentially businesses.

As far as the UK is concerned, visa fees do not go to the embassy, they go direct to UKVI. This has always been the case, even when fees were paid at the embassy and later via a VAC. Fees are now paid online direct to UKVI in the UK; even though they charge in USD, but that's another story.

Visa and leave to remain fees are used to pay for the running costs of UKVI; ECOs at embassies, IOs at ports of entry etc., and any profit, which is considerable, goes to the general exchequer.

I imagine something similar is the case for other countries.

[Donutz]

I don't know about other embassies but the Dutch and Belgian embassies accept cash only in local currency. So you simply show up at the embassy, submit the application and pay the visa fee (if any). If you wish to have the embassy sent the passport back to you you ofcourse pay a courier fee aswell. Those who chose to use VFS have to pay that service feein advance to VFS directly (via the Ayudhya bank) , which is too much hassle in my book and one of several reasons to directly deal with the embassy instead (faster, cheaper, more competent staff).