Suspended jail term in line with global practice: Thai judge

[ThaiUser]

I don’t normally comment on decisions made by our courts but in this instance I feel I have to say something. Supreme Court judge Sri-amporn Salikupt comment that
"She was a minor at the time of the accident. For juveniles, courts focus on rehabilitation, not incarceration," might make sense. However, her comment that it was in line with international practise doesn’t match the facts when comparing similar cases in Europe, Australia or the US.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/401-420/tandi409.html

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/factsheet-youthoffending.pdf

Sri-amporn, who was not involved in the case, said that according to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, a jail term would be the last option for penalising juvenile convicts. "Besides, this was an accident, not a murder," she said.

I agree with her that the people who died haven’t been murdered but the accident was caused by a crime committed by the defendant. She entered the car and drove off in it in the knowledge that she was committing a crime and it would be a farce to deny the fact that a fifteen or sixteen year old girl wouldn’t have that knowledge. The result of her actions caused ten people to die which would bring charges of manslaughter in any other court outside Thailand. I have been just off the phone to my brother in law in Europe who is a solicitor and according to him no court in Europe would have issued a verdict that resulted in a suspended prison sentence. She would have got a prison sentence and send to a juvenile prison to start her rehabilitation by learning that a crime needs to be punished. A suspended sentence and community work can be given to first offenders that spray public or private buildings with their artworks but certainly are no punishment for someone that has caused the death of ten people.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ThaiUser

[thesetat2013]

Although I have not researched to send out links I seem to recall that if a minor commits a serious crime like killing people they are incarcerated into a prison for minors and then when they reach the age of 18 they are moved into a normal prison.

This girl, although a minor at the time of the incident was not a child and she knowingly got behind the wheel of that car without a license making her culpable for her actions. The statement this thread makes about it being in line with international standards is probably only made to appease the ignorant who believe what they read in the Thai news

Before treating others ignorant you might want to brush up your knowledge in criminal law. You might find that in criminal law there is a huge difference between premeditated killing and accidental death by negligent behavior.

Wow! So critical of me and insulting of other that in your own ignorance you failed to read my first sentence that clearly states I DID NOT research claims and links to my comment. You are just too quick to make an ars- of yourself that you neglected to see your own mistake

[pattayasnowman]

"Besides, this was an accident, not a murder," she said.

Correct but its Manslaughter ! It carries a considerable prison sentence in most countries (except S.Africa)

[meltingpot2015]

THE criminal punishment meted out to a young woman whose driving on a Bangkok tollway resulted in nine deaths in 2010 - when she was underage - followed international practice,

"Besides, this was an accident, not a murder," she said.

"criminal punishment" was the suspended jail term?.

Oh!, so we follow international practice for this one, for anything else its self-sufficiency?. The "international practice" argument would hold if international practice was (is) followed in other areas also (not just when it comes to law and order).

Wonder if the same legal international practice had prevented another minor from going to jail (or receiving a punishment that was not as harsh as incarceration but harsher than what the brat received) in a similar case or any case involving a minor (because she says "For juveniles, courts focus on rehabilitation, not incarceration," )

Also, how come the driving while using a mobile phone charge was dropped. "lack of evidence"?, It's usually a really serious offense, anywhere. Justice must not just be done, it must be seen to be done.

[trogers]

Two words stand out in the topic title - Global and Judge.

Then this question pops to mind: Does the justice system here in line with global standard?

Edited May 13, 2015 by trogers

[meltingpot2015]

The judge could be referring to the International Convention on the Rights of the Child. Thailand is a signatory.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

...followed international practice...

While it's true the juvenile justice system even in Western countries typically is focused on rehabilitation, that doesn't mean that young people convicted of crimes don't serve jail time. They do, even if it's in juvenile detention facilities as opposed to adult jails/prisons.

But.... and there are lots of buts here...

--At the time of the crash, the driver was old enough and close enough to being an adult that in some places, given the gravity of the case, she could have been charged and prosecuted as an adult.

--Then, even if she was prosecuted as a juvenile, add in the severity of the case and the extent of lives lost.

--Then add in the fact that the driver was driving without any legal license, and may have been driving while tinkering with her mobile phone.

--Then add in that, at least publicly and according to the families of the victims, the driver has never shown any remorse or even apologized to them for the death.

Put all those things together, and I think, you'd find few places internationally where someone who killed nine people in a horrible vehicle crash would get off with virtually no punishment. Except Thailand.

[Prbkk]

Interesting to read the judge's comments in the context of the story on the front page of today's Bangkok Post.... A 65 year old woman sentenced to gaol for a year, on appeal, for a lese majesty case. The mentally ill woman had been sentenced to prison by a lower court but with a suspended sentence so that she might be offered treatment for her illness.

Prosecutors appealed that ruling and the Supreme Court affirmed a 1 year prison sentence on the grounds that her actions represented a threat to national security.

So no treatment, just gaol.

[Nick167]

I think that the families of those killed should find their own justice themselves.

[ggt]

The adult driver...who was speeding...when he killed the two Brits walking along the edge of the road...should be convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to prison...

He was breaking the law when he killed two people...what is there to judge here?

Probation in cases like this just encourages more lawlessness...national disgrace...

[mango66]

Thailand !

Tha land of corruption and bribes !

My god, why ever I have entered this country !

Even you know on the happy end in the saloon they try to cheat you !

so for what ???

[mango66]

...followed international practice...

While it's true the juvenile justice system even in Western countries typically is focused on rehabilitation, that doesn't mean that young people convicted of crimes don't serve jail time. They do, even if it's in juvenile detention facilities as opposed to adult jails/prisons.

But.... and there are lots of buts here...

--At the time of the crash, the driver was old enough and close enough to being an adult that in some places, given the gravity of the case, she could have been charged and prosecuted as an adult.

--Then, even if she was prosecuted as a juvenile, add in the severity of the case and the extent of lives lost.

--Then add in the fact that the driver was driving without any legal license, and may have been driving while tinkering with her mobile phone.

--Then add in that, at least publicly and according to the families of the victims, the driver has never shown any remorse or even apologized to them for the death.

Put all those things together, and I think, you'd find few places internationally where someone who killed nine people in a horrible vehicle crash would get off with virtually no punishment. Except Thailand.

so said this story,

so said for the families of the victims,

and so bad is the judging of this lost land !!

[rametindallas]

Although I have not researched to send out links I seem to recall that if a minor commits a serious crime like killing people they are incarcerated into a prison for minors and then when they reach the age of 18 they are moved into a normal prison.

This girl, although a minor at the time of the incident was not a child and she knowingly got behind the wheel of that car without a license making her culpable for her actions. The statement this thread makes about it being in line with international standards is probably only made to appease the ignorant who believe what they read in the Thai news

In the U.S. the punishment hinges entirely on whether the prosecutor charges the offender as a juvenile or as an adult. If charged as a juvenile, the case will be heard in juvenile court and if found guilty, will be sentenced to juvenile detention so as not to be mixed with adult offenders. If found guilty as a juvenile, no matter what the crime (even murder), the offender will be released at age 21 and all records sealed. The prosecutor gets to make the decision as to whether to charge a minor in juvenile court or adult court, regardless of age.

Boy, 12, faces grown up murder charges http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/10/pennsylvania.young.murder.defendant/

Young killer nears prison release, seeks fresh start http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/12/young-killer-catherine-jones-release-date-nears/21636259/

Michigan Boy Who Killed at 11 Is Convicted of Murder as Adult http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/17/us/michigan-boy-who-killed-at-11-is-convicted-of-murder-as-adult.html

Kentucky 6-year-old tried for murder http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/03/05/loc_kentucky_6-year-old.html

Suspended jail term in line with global practice: judge

Thais are notoriously ignorant of the way the rest of the world operates and no one will challenge this judge's statement because of a Thai trait called, "Krieng Jai", which prevents any Thai from putting another Thai in an awkward or uncomfortable situation. This is why news reporters repeat what they are told and never ask probing questions. This trait causes Thai society to stagnate as no one will change unless challenged.

In my opinion, this girl was old enough to be responsible for her actions and should have been in juvenile detention until at least age 21 with no bail while appealing her case. The justice system here "is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham." (stolen from Woody Allen in 'Bananas 1971)

[technologybytes]

Boy, 12, faces grown up murder charges http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/10/pennsylvania.young.murder.defendant/

Young killer nears prison release, seeks fresh start http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/12/young-killer-catherine-jones-release-date-nears/21636259/

Michigan Boy Who Killed at 11 Is Convicted of Murder as Adult http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/17/us/michigan-boy-who-killed-at-11-is-convicted-of-murder-as-adult.html

Kentucky 6-year-old tried for murder http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/03/05/loc_kentucky_6-year-old.html

I think you just defeated your own argument here.

Those examples are not the same, and anyway any country that would try a 6 year old for murder has no right to judge any other nation for their justice system.

The reason she had no licence was BECAUSE SHE WAS A CHILD.

Destroying her life by sending her to prison would achieve nothing. The court was correct not to send her to prison.

[meatboy]

Boy, 12, faces grown up murder charges http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/10/pennsylvania.young.murder.defendant/

Young killer nears prison release, seeks fresh start http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/12/young-killer-catherine-jones-release-date-nears/21636259/

Michigan Boy Who Killed at 11 Is Convicted of Murder as Adult http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/17/us/michigan-boy-who-killed-at-11-is-convicted-of-murder-as-adult.html

Kentucky 6-year-old tried for murder http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/03/05/loc_kentucky_6-year-old.html

I think you just defeated your own argument here.

Those examples are not the same, and anyway any country that would try a 6 year old for murder has no right to judge any other nation for their justice system.

The reason she had no licence was BECAUSE SHE WAS A CHILD.

Destroying her life by sending her to prison would achieve nothing. The court was correct not to send her to prison.

i wonder how you would feel if it was your wife,son or daughter that was killed by a TEENAGER not a child.

[meatboy]

has there been any mention of the third party involved? didnt her freind let her borrow her car.knowingly what age she was.or has she got away scot free.

and recieved a brand new car.

[Strangebrew]

As someone above said, she is not underage now so NOW she should go to jail and pay for her crime.

She was underage before, and that's what counts.

Fortunately this is not the Wild West where teenagers get shot by rambo cops.

Correct This is Thailand where you kill 9 people and get 48 hours of community service. Where cops shoot at tires where innocent bystanders might get hit with stray bullet or find mass graves of slaves and then under pressure from other nations finally do something about it Thai style give warning your going to arrest the kingpins so they can run and hide. Frickin Amazing Thailand.