Bangkok bank taking the (deleted)

[smedly]

so I swift transferred a large sum of money into my Bangkok bank account yesterday which arrived today and based on the displayed TT exchange rate minus 500baht fee there is 1300 baht missing, using the closing exchange rate yesterday it is 3000baht missing as there was a slight dip early on this am, is someone creaming off these transfers in their exchange desk

[Swiss1960]

- what currency?

- which TT rate from which time where displayed?

- why not talk with the bank beforehand if you submit "large" sums of money and negotiate the best rate?

[smedly]

it seems that after investigation even though I thought I was doing a swift transfer from UK (Nationwide) in sterling to my Bangkok bank account - that it was first passed to HSBC in Thailand who then applied a lesser exchange rate into Baht and then forwarded the Baht to my Bangkok bank which is not what I requested from my UK bank, my Bangkok bank is a sterling account, these banks are really pulling some moves on people

[Pib]

If the the international funds arrived directly to Bangkok Bank their receiving fee is 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max). Thai banks will usually adjust the their TT Buying Rate several times each day...usually around 3 or 4...sometimes less...sometimes a lot more if the FX markets are having a wild day....what rate you got depends on when they finalized the posting to your account during the day.

If your Sending bank needed to use a correspondent bank, then that correspondent bank may have applied a fee. If that correspondent bank happened to be another Thai bank, then that Thai bank may have accomplished the currency conversion which means they may have applied a fee and "their" TT Buying Rate would have been used...then they would have completed the transfer of that baht over to Bangkok Bank where they would have probably applied their receiving fee assuming the coding in the transfer still reflected it was an international transfer. In some cases where a Forex service is accomplishing the transfer they may also send to a correspondent bank in Thailand who accomplishes the conversion, but then the final leg from that Thai bank to your bank is classified a domestic transfer which means that 0.25% fee is not applied. So, many possibilities depending on the routing of the transfer and method of transfer. Also, you sure you didn't allow your Sending bank to convert to baht versus letting the receiving Thai bank accomplish the conversion. Your missing money so to speak is most likely "upstream" of Bangkok Bank....before the money even arrived Bangkok Bank.

Call Bangkok Bank and ask them about the transfer. They can tell you exactly how much arrived, whether it arrived in a foreign currency or baht, the exchange rate they gave, and what fee they applied. You can also get a SMS from them for free for international remittance which gives you detailed info in the SMS like amount of currency rec'd, exchange rate, fee, posting amount, posting date, etc.....See this Bangkok Bank Link on how to signup of the SMS Remittance Service.

[Awk]

- what currency?

- which TT rate from which time where displayed?

- why not talk with the bank beforehand if you submit "large" sums of money and negotiate the best rate?

Could you please elaborate on that last point. How is this done, and what sums are we talking about before the bank would even care to have a talk?

I will very soon transfer the equivalent of 2,000,000 baht from my european account to Thailand. From what I've read, I should always send the money in my local currency at the sending end, and let the receiving bank (Bangkok Bank in my case, though I will open an account in another bank if there is any reason to do it) do the exchange into the local currency at the receiving end. So I presume it is Bangkok Bank I would need to talk with. But is 2,000,000 a sum too small for anyone to care, or?

For what it's worth, it's a big sum for me, so I'd like to get the best rate of course.

Thanks.

[smedly]

If the the international funds arrived directly to Bangkok Bank their receiving fee is 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max). Thai banks will usually adjust the their TT Buying Rate several times each day...usually around 3 or 4...sometimes less...sometimes a lot more if the FX markets are having a wild day....what rate you got depends on when they finalized the posting to your account during the day.

If your Sending bank needed to use a correspondent bank, then that correspondent bank may have applied a fee. If that correspondent bank happened to be another Thai bank, then that Thai bank may have accomplished the currency conversion which means they may have applied a fee and "their" TT Buying Rate would have been used...then they would have completed the transfer of that baht over to Bangkok Bank where they would have probably applied their receiving fee assuming the coding in the transfer still reflected it was an international transfer. In some cases where a Forex service is accomplishing the transfer they may also send to a correspondent bank in Thailand who accomplishes the conversion, but then the final leg from that Thai bank to your bank is classified a domestic transfer which means that 0.25% fee is not applied. So, many possibilities depending on the routing of the transfer and method of transfer. Also, you sure you didn't allow your Sending bank to convert to baht versus letting the receiving Thai bank accomplish the conversion. Your missing money so to speak is most likely "upstream" of Bangkok Bank....before the money even arrived Bangkok Bank.

Call Bangkok Bank and ask them about the transfer. They can tell you exactly how much arrived, whether it arrived in a foreign currency or baht, the exchange rate they gave, and what fee they applied. You can also get a SMS from them for free for international remittance which gives you detailed info in the SMS like amount of currency rec'd, exchange rate, fee, posting amount, posting date, etc.....See this Bangkok Bank Link on how to signup of the SMS Remittance Service.

Thanks for the reply

I have a copy of the original swift transfer, I have already been to Bangkok Bank to find out what exchange rate they used as it was not what I expected or what was on their website at the time, they investigated it and found out that it went to HSBC in Thailand first who then converted it at their own lesser exchange rate and then transferred Thai Baht to Bangkok Bank, this is not what I instructed my bank to do as my Bangkok Bank account is a sterling account. I have now taken this up with the Nationwide in the UK

The next transfer I do will be through Bangkok Bank in London who obviously don't do any of this nonsense using other 3rd party entities to complete a swift transfer, when transferring large sums of money and 0.5 (52.5 to 52) baht drop in exchange rate can make quite a difference

Just found this http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761993-nationwide-to-krung-thai-via-swift-extra-charge-from-hsbc/

apart from the extra charge they are applying their own exchange rates

Never again, as stated above I will go the London Bangkok Branch route next time, transfer from Nationwide to the London Branch is free then from there it is all internal to Bangkok Bank including their exchange rates or sterling transfers if rquired

Edited May 13, 2015 by smedly

[Swiss1960]

- what currency?

- which TT rate from which time where displayed?

- why not talk with the bank beforehand if you submit "large" sums of money and negotiate the best rate?

Could you please elaborate on that last point. How is this done, and what sums are we talking about before the bank would even care to have a talk?

I will very soon transfer the equivalent of 2,000,000 baht from my european account to Thailand. From what I've read, I should always send the money in my local currency at the sending end, and let the receiving bank (Bangkok Bank in my case, though I will open an account in another bank if there is any reason to do it) do the exchange into the local currency at the receiving end. So I presume it is Bangkok Bank I would need to talk with. But is 2,000,000 a sum too small for anyone to care, or?

For what it's worth, it's a big sum for me, so I'd like to get the best rate of course.

Thanks.

Well, just walk into the bank, tell them how much you want to transfer and ask what exchange rate they are able (and willing) to offer. I would assume - as always with Thai banks - it depends on the Bank (Bangkok Bank being less willing) and on the branch you hold your account (SCB started to discuss with me from 500K Baht). While it might only be a few satang when the exchange rate is stable, on higher transfers you can get few 1'000 Baht more.

Key is to also compare TT buy rates the different banks publish. If you look - just one example - on http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx you will see that exchange rates can vary considerably from bank to bank. Also you see there that some banks only post 1 update per day (I do not know how many recalculations they do internally) while others post up to 9 TT rates per day (i.e. SCB rates on http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp when you select your currency). When I look at yesterday and can convince SCB to give me the highest daily TT rate (which yesterday was 0.51 Baht higher than the lowest rate), then on 100K CHF I can get 50'000 Baht more.

Also the first website mentioned shows you differences between lowest and highest exchange rate from the various banks. In volatile exchange rate days, I have seen differences of up to 2.5% between banks, just on CHF.. .which for your 2 Mio THB would mean another 50'000 Baht more.

Since I have three accounts with three banks (risk mitigation...), before transfers I look at which banks might offer the highest TT buy rate and that is where I transfer the full amount. After that, I do Thai internal transfers to the other accounts. This way, I can profit from the best bank TT rate AND I can discuss higher amounts with the bank chosen.

That is how I do it, maybe I am just lucky to have the right bank and branch (including a trusted Thai friend who is business owner and very good customer in that branch), but I have also read from other posters that it is possible to negotiate TT rates starting from certain amounts.

[mokwit]

It seems your sending account was with Nationwide who lacking their own branch in Thailand used a correspondent bank, in this case HSBC. who converted it at their rate. This is a well known rip where a correspondent bank sees a fee opportunity and takes it - possibly even when the instruction 'remit as currency' was used and usually at a very bad rate. For future reference ONLY use a bank that has its own branch in the country [otherwise you are wide open to the correspondent bank opportunistic rip] and specify on SWIFT message 'remit as currency'. Best rates will be onshore rates from Thai banks.

Lat time I checked HSBC was charging ~3% mark up above interbank rate - anybody who thinks they are being charged GBP12 or whatever is not seeing the whole picture.

Edited May 13, 2015 by mokwit

[elgordo38]

it seems that after investigation even though I thought I was doing a swift transfer from UK (Nationwide) in sterling to my Bangkok bank account - that it was first passed to HSBC in Thailand who then applied a lesser exchange rate into Baht and then forwarded the Baht to my Bangkok bank which is not what I requested from my UK bank, my Bangkok bank is a sterling account, these banks are really pulling some moves on people

You misunderstand my dear boy banks are a big business now not a service. They will pinch your money whenever they can. They must watch the bottom line or shareholders will be up in arms.

[smedly]

it seems that after investigation even though I thought I was doing a swift transfer from UK (Nationwide) in sterling to my Bangkok bank account - that it was first passed to HSBC in Thailand who then applied a lesser exchange rate into Baht and then forwarded the Baht to my Bangkok bank which is not what I requested from my UK bank, my Bangkok bank is a sterling account, these banks are really pulling some moves on people

You misunderstand my dear boy banks are a big business now not a service. They will pinch your money whenever they can. They must watch the bottom line or shareholders will be up in arms.

and well my dear boy, I was not going to accept what they were doing and objected and the outcome is that "my dear boy" I have been compensated for the failure of my bank to do as I instructed, and that my dear boy is that

and what is all that "my dear boy" about ........................get off the yogurt - my dear boy...seriously (deleted)

keep your boys to yourself

[Naam]

- what currency?

- which TT rate from which time where displayed?

- why not talk with the bank beforehand if you submit "large" sums of money and negotiate the best rate?

Could you please elaborate on that last point. How is this done, and what sums are we talking about before the bank would even care to have a talk?

I will very soon transfer the equivalent of 2,000,000 baht from my european account to Thailand. From what I've read, I should always send the money in my local currency at the sending end, and let the receiving bank (Bangkok Bank in my case, though I will open an account in another bank if there is any reason to do it) do the exchange into the local currency at the receiving end. So I presume it is Bangkok Bank I would need to talk with. But is 2,000,000 a sum too small for anyone to care, or?

For what it's worth, it's a big sum for me, so I'd like to get the best rate of course.

Thanks.

Well, just walk into the bank, tell them how much you want to transfer and ask what exchange rate they are able (and willing) to offer. I would assume - as always with Thai banks - it depends on the Bank (Bangkok Bank being less willing) and on the branch you hold your account (SCB started to discuss with me from 500K Baht). While it might only be a few satang when the exchange rate is stable, on higher transfers you can get few 1'000 Baht more.

Key is to also compare TT buy rates the different banks publish. If you look - just one example - on http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx you will see that exchange rates can vary considerably from bank to bank. Also you see there that some banks only post 1 update per day (I do not know how many recalculations they do internally) while others post up to 9 TT rates per day (i.e. SCB rates on http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp when you select your currency). When I look at yesterday and can convince SCB to give me the highest daily TT rate (which yesterday was 0.51 Baht higher than the lowest rate), then on 100K CHF I can get 50'000 Baht more.

Also the first website mentioned shows you differences between lowest and highest exchange rate from the various banks. In volatile exchange rate days, I have seen differences of up to 2.5% between banks, just on CHF.. .which for your 2 Mio THB would mean another 50'000 Baht more.

Since I have three accounts with three banks (risk mitigation...), before transfers I look at which banks might offer the highest TT buy rate and that is where I transfer the full amount. After that, I do Thai internal transfers to the other accounts. This way, I can profit from the best bank TT rate AND I can discuss higher amounts with the bank chosen.

That is how I do it, maybe I am just lucky to have the right bank and branch (including a trusted Thai friend who is business owner and very good customer in that branch), but I have also read from other posters that it is possible to negotiate TT rates starting from certain amounts.

the only possibility is a "straight forward" deal, i.e. selling a currency at a rate at a specified date. unfortunately i have strong doubts that you can close a forward in any branch of an anachronistic Thai bank

SCB calls you when transfers arrive. not sure about the minimum amount but definitely when $50k are transferred. SCB also provides the option to hold the forex for up to 4 weeks to decide an exchange at a later date. no idea whether other banks provide that optiuon too.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Naam

[Time Traveller]

I don't know what you would consider a "large sum", but 1300 baht is rounding error. (e.g. on $10k it's like 13 satang difference on the FX rate).

But if that bothers you just ask the bank what rate they applied.

[Robert24]

I usually do the FX offshore and send Thai baht. That way I can manage the FX myself. And for transferring the money, recommend a bank that has direct Swift access, you will know the cost to make a Swift payment with that bank and then I'm sure Bangkok Bank or any Thai bank will still deduct an additional fee.