Yingluck says she will appear at Supreme Court next week to prove her innocence

[rubl]

She certainly has more testicular fortitude than her brother Thaksin.

Frankly I wish her the best of ying, because she is up against a stacked deck. And ,no I am not a YS fan.

Gimme a break. Anyone who thinks she has the balls for this is crazy. This will end badly for justice because she will twist what happens there into a drama show and tell people that court was biased or she wasn't represented properly because she went to it in person.

And you don't believe the court will be biased?

Of course they're biased. No doubt they will believe Ms. Yingluck in her statement in parliament to be in charge. The fools

[rubl]

I feel sorry for her. The whole system is loaded against her - corrupt to the core and I don't mean Yingluck.

Poor innocent little rich girl. I guess she's wondering now about the frequent televised statements about being in charge, the conflicting details, the lack of administration. As if she wanted to make sure courts could only find her guilty

[rubl]

She scrubs up very nicely for someone pushing 50.

My dear sir, you're insulting. Ms. Yingluck isn't even 48 yet

[scorecard]

What happened to the Presumption on Innocents until proven Guilty in a court of law applying rules of evidence.

Don't be silly, this is Thai Visa!

It's OK---a big 5% on Thai visa feel sorry for her---Quote her saying "I did nothing wrong"........we know there are countless others from both sides of the fence that did wrong----but why are you in denial all the time--------face reality for once.

I speak as one of 5%.(?)

So your meticulous monitoring of our posts ( of which you have boasted more than once) leads you to believe that we feel sorry for her, and are "in denial" and need to face reality for once".

I don't feel sorry for her, I respect the fact that she was the popular choice (not on this forum obviously) but of the Thai electorate. I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government, and far from being a political naif I think she is facing the impending show trial with great courage.

As far as "denial" and " facing reality" are concerned, well if reality is represented by your paranoid rants and obsessive monitoring of other people's opinions, I'll stick with denial if it's all the same with you.

No problem --you stick with the 5% on here and you well know the facts, Monitoring of OUR posts

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. I merely put the view across that Thailand is far better off NOW than it was under the Shin regime. History about Army--Abhisit etc are irrelevant.

Facts are facts about total mismanagement after being elected. Bringing the country to it's knees.

This is what my observations are. Your insults are not a one off here on TVF.

She needs more than courage at the trial-------and she never did anything worthwhile apart from being a party to corrupt government--especially the rice job and the amnesty job---feel free to support her in her hour of need, suppose you feel sorry for her brother --all his problems were politically motivated--like his sister now ???

You ask (shout actually, but then you do that rather a lot) "What on earth are you talking about? "

Might I suggest that you read the last paragraph off my post in conjunction with you post. You will find that you have answered your own question.

You are obviously sensitive to what you feel are my "insults". If you carefully and calmly read the last batch of posts you have made on this topic you will realise that apart from lacking any cohesive argument they largely consist of abuse and insults. Perhaps what you perceive as "insults" are a response to your own abusive bellowings?

"... she was the popular choice ... ...of the Thai electorate".

Seems you have missed that her brother made no secret of 'appointing her'.

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government..."

How's that, please share some details of how she dealt with the PDRC.

Do you really believe she was the chief strategist to deal with the PDRC situation?

[Robby nz]

I feel sorry for her. The whole system is loaded against her - corrupt to the core and I don't mean Yingluck.

Poor innocent little rich girl. I guess she's wondering now about the frequent televised statements about being in charge, the conflicting details, the lack of administration. As if she wanted to make sure courts could only find her guilty

I doubt she is wondering that at all Rubi.

She will be believing whatever the lawyers tell her and following big brothers instructions as always. She will really believe in her innocence because she has been told she is innocent.

However it is going to be difficult to prove as there has never been any reliable accounts produced by her of her ministers defense to show where the money went from the pledging scheme. It has now gone through the impeachment stage for both her and the commerce ministry gang and if accounts had existed which could have proven that there was no corruption and that the money spent went to the correct places they would have been produced by now.

The closest it ever came to accurate accounting was the report of the post audit committee: http://www.capitalrice.com/index.php/riceupdates/archive/166

Which got the chair of that committee sacked for telling the truth about the hundreds of billions lost.

There have been other comprehensive reports from such institutions as The Thai Development Research Institute which estimated the corruption within the scheme at 111billion baht and that did not include corruption at a farmer, miller, warehouse of Govt official level. http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/tdri-details-apparent-costs-of-rice-pledging-programme-including-bt111-billion-in-corruption/

Freedom Barometer which produced a 14 page report :

http://freedombarometer.org/assets/pdfs/Freedom-Barometer-Special-Report-Thailands-Agrarian-Policy.pdf

And the finance ministry itself whose report led to the following graphic :

Of course none of these matter because their all bias and its all a witch hunt to get rid of political rivals, yea right.

[Robby nz]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

[Baerboxer]

That's your intuitive feeling?

So you think her popularity has increased since she won the 2011 election with her brother's help? The large minority that voted for her brother's political party has now grown into a majority of the electorate supporting her you think?

I don't think so matey. You underestimate how many former supporters were totally pissed at the constant lying, thieving, ludicrous management and the very obvious attempts at completely whitewashing Thaksin and themselves.

But, that's my opinion, Which like yours, is based on intuition, wishful thinking and bias - not facts.

2001, 2005, 2007, 2011 are facts

B4 2011 all the TVF yellow cheer-leading squad were asserting that the reds had lost sooooo much support because of the protests. & they were yet again WRONG!

The naivety of people to believe political allegiances change so easily.

Oh really? Ed Milliband might disagree.

The naivety to believe that people don't finally wake up and smell the shit.

Thaksin misjudged the response to the more and more open cheating and thieving, the more ridiculous lying and above all the response to his attempts at not only whitewashing himself and his family but putting them above the law.

Many people I know voted PTP and those same people all attended the protests that brought PTP down. None of them would vote PTP or any Shin owned political party again. They for the ludicrously titled Democrats, who simply represent the interests of the rich elite. Strangely most say they will vote for Prayuth if he stands. They aren't interested in the Western trumpeted democracy - it only brings them the elite or a gang of rich crooks. They want to see change. Will he deliver it - who knows?

Actually, the same thing is happening in many countries - people want change and are fed up with the same old choices not delivering. In the UK, Labor and Liberal found out to their cost whist SNP and UKIP gained massively. Political alliances are no longer as entrenched as you naively believe.

[dageurreotype]

Yingluck says she will appear at Supreme Court next week to prove her innocence

Just in case anyone needed reminding of the 'culture' into which they have lol, immersed themselves.

[JAG]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

Edited May 16, 2015 by JAG

[djjamie]

I feel sorry for her. The whole system is loaded against her - corrupt to the core and I don't mean Yingluck.

Poor innocent little rich girl. I guess she's wondering now about the frequent televised statements about being in charge, the conflicting details, the lack of administration. As if she wanted to make sure courts could only find her guilty

I doubt she is wondering that at all Rubi.

She will be believing whatever the lawyers tell her and following big brothers instructions as always. She will really believe in her innocence because she has been told she is innocent.

However it is going to be difficult to prove as there has never been any reliable accounts produced by her of her ministers defense to show where the money went from the pledging scheme. It has now gone through the impeachment stage for both her and the commerce ministry gang and if accounts had existed which could have proven that there was no corruption and that the money spent went to the correct places they would have been produced by now.

The closest it ever came to accurate accounting was the report of the post audit committee: http://www.capitalrice.com/index.php/riceupdates/archive/166

Which got the chair of that committee sacked for telling the truth about the hundreds of billions lost.

There have been other comprehensive reports from such institutions as The Thai Development Research Institute which estimated the corruption within the scheme at 111billion baht and that did not include corruption at a farmer, miller, warehouse of Govt official level. http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/tdri-details-apparent-costs-of-rice-pledging-programme-including-bt111-billion-in-corruption/

Freedom Barometer which produced a 14 page report :

http://freedombarometer.org/assets/pdfs/Freedom-Barometer-Special-Report-Thailands-Agrarian-Policy.pdf

And the finance ministry itself whose report led to the following graphic :

rice.jpg

Of course none of these matter because their all bias and its all a witch hunt to get rid of political rivals, yea right.

And don't forget Suropong stating to the majority who he held in contempt be saying to ignore export figure FACTS (the PTP's greatest enemy) and believe his beliefs because he said the FACTS were wrong and that everything will be OK. Turned out FACTS (PP's greatest enemy) were right and his BELIEFS (PTP's greatest friend) were wrong……..AGAIN...

I see you produce facts and all rebuttals towards you are beliefs…It is all they have and all they will ever have.

[Trouble]

I feel sorry for her. The whole system is loaded against her - corrupt to the core and I don't mean Yingluck.

60 odd million people in Thailand. Good percentage of those living on the bread line and below. Surely amongst those a few more deserving of sympathy than a woman who was handed untold wealth by her brother to act as figurehead for his various corrupt ventures and activities, and who is now having to answer for that, but with zero chance of ever actually having to take any sort of punishment, as she'll either do some sort of a deal with the powers that be, or simply flee to live in luxury somewhere else.

Get the facts straight. I get tired of the constant talk of her "untold wealth" by individuals who don't do their homework. Her estimated wealth was about 17 million USD when she entered office. When she stepped down from office her wealth had increased by about 1 million USD. Most of her assets are in stocks. Her son and husband have about 1 1/2 million USD in addition. Oh, I forgot the expensive watch she forgot to include in her assets. If you think that is untold wealth you are barking up the wrong tree. She also has millions in liabilities. Sure that is a good deal of money compared to the average Thai but it is NOT untold wealth. She is probably earning abut $300,000 to $400,000 per year off of her investments if she is lucky. Seems like many TV posters dislike her more for her wealth and connection to her brother than anything else. Read her bio sometime. She did not start at the top of her brothers companies but worked her way up. Sure she had the connections and surely was promoted based on the connections but she was not just handed a CEO position. Give her some credit. She is not as stupid as people seem to think. Let's face it, it's the wealth the bothers so many people here.

If she is only earning that much something is very wrong she should be earning a lot more

Just figured that with some millions of debt, property, etc included in assets but not generating income, maybe at 3% in dividends and interest she is generating about that amount. She could be making more but that was just a figure based on income generated from interest and dividends. Think one could live quiet comfortably on 300,000 to 400,000 USD in Thailand. She might have more but my point was she and her immediate family do not have "untold" wealth by themselves. It does not hurt to have a billionaire (USD) brother either if she gets in a pinch.

[Robby nz]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

You wrote it and now you try to make excuses for yourself.

You even have the audacity to try to compare the armed riots of 2010 where the grenades were fired out of the rioters area at the military and civilians with the peaceful protests of 2014 where the grenades were fired into the protesters.

Your admiration is misplaced and it is you who should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to defend the indefensible.

[JAG]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

You wrote it and now you try to make excuses for yourself.

You even have the audacity to try to compare the armed riots of 2010 where the grenades were fired out of the rioters area at the military and civilians with the peaceful protests of 2014 where the grenades were fired into the protesters.

Your admiration is misplaced and it is you who should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to defend the indefensible.

I make no excuses. It is you who seek to excuse a wholly unwarranted, untrue allegation. You suggested I cheered the murder of children.

Discussing, however forthrightly the present and past of the Thai political situation is one thing, we hold wildly differing views, and are not afraid to express them. I am quite prepared to accept that you feel I should be "ashamed of myself", (not that I am).You have gone far beyond that in accusing me of something I have not done. You suggested that I cheered the murder of children . I Never did that. You said again that I wrote that, I never did.That is the indefensible.It is way beyond the discussion of politics. You should retract the allegation.

Edited May 17, 2015 by JAG

[LannaGuy]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

You wrote it and now you try to make excuses for yourself.

You even have the audacity to try to compare the armed riots of 2010 where the grenades were fired out of the rioters area at the military and civilians with the peaceful protests of 2014 where the grenades were fired into the protesters.

Your admiration is misplaced and it is you who should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to defend the indefensible.

I make no excuses. It is you who seek to excuse a wholly unwarranted, untrue allegation. You suggested I cheered the murder of children.

Discussing, however forthrightly the present and past of the Thai political situation is one thing, we hold wildly differing views, and are not afraid to express them. I am quite prepared to accept that you feel I should be "ashamed of myself", (not that I am).You have gone far beyond that in accusing me of something I have not done. You suggested that I cheered the murder of children . I Never did that. You said again that I wrote that, I never did.That is the indefensible.It is way beyond the discussion of politics. You should retract the allegation.

good for you! don't give in to the propaganda and ignorance of the junta supporters who should be embarrassed in their support for the military take-over - hypocrites!

[LannaGuy]

That's your intuitive feeling?

So you think her popularity has increased since she won the 2011 election with her brother's help? The large minority that voted for her brother's political party has now grown into a majority of the electorate supporting her you think?

I don't think so matey. You underestimate how many former supporters were totally pissed at the constant lying, thieving, ludicrous management and the very obvious attempts at completely whitewashing Thaksin and themselves.

But, that's my opinion, Which like yours, is based on intuition, wishful thinking and bias - not facts.

2001, 2005, 2007, 2011 are facts

B4 2011 all the TVF yellow cheer-leading squad were asserting that the reds had lost sooooo much support because of the protests. & they were yet again WRONG!

The naivety of people to believe political allegiances change so easily.

Oh really? Ed Milliband might disagree.

The naivety to believe that people don't finally wake up and smell the shit.

Thaksin misjudged the response to the more and more open cheating and thieving, the more ridiculous lying and above all the response to his attempts at not only whitewashing himself and his family but putting them above the law.

Many people I know voted PTP and those same people all attended the protests that brought PTP down. None of them would vote PTP or any Shin owned political party again. They for the ludicrously titled Democrats, who simply represent the interests of the rich elite. Strangely most say they will vote for Prayuth if he stands. They aren't interested in the Western trumpeted democracy - it only brings them the elite or a gang of rich crooks. They want to see change. Will he deliver it - who knows?

Actually, the same thing is happening in many countries - people want change and are fed up with the same old choices not delivering. In the UK, Labor and Liberal found out to their cost whist SNP and UKIP gained massively. Political alliances are no longer as entrenched as you naively believe.

nonsense post again trying to suggest the UK might choose a military junta rather than the democratic system that produced a clear winner. 'Many people' is a joke as 'many people' I know are against the junta but know that they will rig the election as a 'Hobsons Choice'.

By the way UKIP were nearly annihilated (winning ONE seat) and there was a clear winner in the UK election. I suggest you should choose more carefully an example which you have, at least, a little knowledge of (clearly the same with Thai politics)

Edited May 17, 2015 by LannaGuy

[JAG]

In fairness to "Baerboxer" (goodness me, what am I saying!) UKIP won a very significant part of the vote. It was the vagaries of the UKs electoral system that denied them seats. Off topic I know.

[LannaGuy]

In fairness to "Baerboxer" (goodness me, what am I saying!) UKIP won a very significant part of the vote. It was the vagaries of the UKs electoral system that denied them seats. Off topic I know.

they won ONE seat, got 12% of the vote and the leader resigned as he did not even win his OWN seat

but this veers totally off topic and was introduced to show a comparison between a military junta and UK politics which is ABSURD

Edited May 17, 2015 by LannaGuy

[mercman24]

in my eyes the rice scheme was a total ba**s up and corrupt, just wondered if anyone pondered about some people in power (who shall become nameless) have become fabulously rich over night ??

[JAG]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

You wrote it and now you try to make excuses for yourself.

You even have the audacity to try to compare the armed riots of 2010 where the grenades were fired out of the rioters area at the military and civilians with the peaceful protests of 2014 where the grenades were fired into the protesters.

Your admiration is misplaced and it is you who should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to defend the indefensible.

I make no excuses. It is you who seek to excuse a wholly unwarranted, untrue allegation. You suggested I cheered the murder of children.

Discussing, however forthrightly the present and past of the Thai political situation is one thing, we hold wildly differing views, and are not afraid to express them. I am quite prepared to accept that you feel I should be "ashamed of myself", (not that I am).You have gone far beyond that in accusing me of something I have not done. You suggested that I cheered the murder of children . I Never did that. You said again that I wrote that, I never did.That is the indefensible.It is way beyond the discussion of politics. You should retract the allegation.

good for you! don't give in to the propaganda and ignorance of the junta supporters who should be embarrassed in their support for the military take-over - hypocrites!

Thank you for your support.

The junta supporters are entirely entitled to express their support for the regime and the way it came to power. After all, freedom of speech is central to my arguments. I disagree with them fundamentally and will always argue against their position.

That is not the basis of my fight with Robby nz. What he said in alleging that I cheered the murder of children was beyond the bounds of a political discussion. It is an awful allegation which is completely unfounded, and is nowhere supported by anything I have posted, ever. That is why I feel so strongly that it should be removed.

Edited May 17, 2015 by JAG

[billd766]

What happened to the Presumption on Innocents until proven Guilty in a court of law applying rules of evidence.

Don't be silly, this is Thai Visa!

It's OK---a big 5% on Thai visa feel sorry for her---Quote her saying "I did nothing wrong"........we know there are countless others from both sides of the fence that did wrong----but why are you in denial all the time--------face reality for once.

I speak as one of 5%.(?)

So your meticulous monitoring of our posts ( of which you have boasted more than once) leads you to believe that we feel sorry for her, and are "in denial" and need to face reality for once".

I don't feel sorry for her, I respect the fact that she was the popular choice (not on this forum obviously) but of the Thai electorate. I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government, and far from being a political naif I think she is facing the impending show trial with great courage.

As far as "denial" and " facing reality" are concerned, well if reality is represented by your paranoid rants and obsessive monitoring of other people's opinions, I'll stick with denial if it's all the same with you.

To say Yingluck was the Popular choice of the thai electorate proves you don't know anything about Thai Politics.....she wasn't elected by the Thai electorate.....suggest you read more about it before making silly statements

She was leader of the party which easily won the last general election in Thailand.That's the usual criterion for a politician's popularity.It also explains why an unelected military government and assorted toadies are so frightened of the Thai people making a choice in another general election.

Actually Yingluck was NOT the leader of the PTP and never has been.

Nor did she ever put herself forward as a constituency MP.

Nor did she receive a single vote from Thai voters, only from the PTP MPs who 100% elected her with no exceptions or abstentions.

She was however the #1 candidate for the party list MPs.

I know the reference is only Wikipedia but have a look here.

If your Thai reading skills are good enough (and mine are not) you could log onto the Official PTP site and check there if she was ever the leader of the PTP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheu_Thai_Party

Leader Charupong Ruangsuwan Secretary-General Phumtham Wechayachai Spokesperson Prompong Nopparith Slogan ขอคิดใหม่ ทำใหม่ เพื่อไทยทุกคน... อีกครั้ง

"Let us rethink and redo for all Thais...Again"^[1] Founded 20 September 2008 Preceded by People's Power Party Headquarters 1770 OAI Bld. New Petchburi Rd. Bangkapi, Huaykwang, Bangkok, Thailand Ideology Populism

Democratic socialism Colors Red and dark blue Website Official website

True enough but the fact remains the Thai people voted her party into office in the full knowledge she would be leader (and all that this implied including the influence of Thaksin).Thus she had a legitimacy completely lacking in the current government.No doubt as the good and "educate" people maintain, the Thai nation was mistaken in its choice.Just in case they repeat that mistake it was necessary to seize power by force and impose a constitution which will always ensure the "right" answer.

So basically what you actually said was not correct in any way at all.

You also seem to be quite happy that Thaksin even though he was and still is a convicted criminal fugitive had an input to the highest levels of the Thai government at the time and certainly swayed the way that the country was run.

[LannaGuy]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

You wrote it and now you try to make excuses for yourself.

You even have the audacity to try to compare the armed riots of 2010 where the grenades were fired out of the rioters area at the military and civilians with the peaceful protests of 2014 where the grenades were fired into the protesters.

Your admiration is misplaced and it is you who should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to defend the indefensible.

I make no excuses. It is you who seek to excuse a wholly unwarranted, untrue allegation. You suggested I cheered the murder of children.

Discussing, however forthrightly the present and past of the Thai political situation is one thing, we hold wildly differing views, and are not afraid to express them. I am quite prepared to accept that you feel I should be "ashamed of myself", (not that I am).You have gone far beyond that in accusing me of something I have not done. You suggested that I cheered the murder of children . I Never did that. You said again that I wrote that, I never did.That is the indefensible.It is way beyond the discussion of politics. You should retract the allegation.

good for you! don't give in to the propaganda and ignorance of the junta supporters who should be embarrassed in their support for the military take-over - hypocrites!

Thank you for your support.

The junta supporters are entirely entitled to express their support for the regime and the way it came to power. After all, freedom of speech is central to my arguments. I disagree with them fundamentally and will always argue against their position.

That is not the basis of my fight with Robby nz. What he said in alleging that I cheered the murder of children was beyond the bounds of a political discussion. It is an awful allegation which is completely unfounded, and is nowhere supported by anything I have posted, ever. That is why I feel so strongly that it should be removed.

I didn't say they didn't have the right to express their right wing views I said they should be embarrassed by that support

[billd766]

That's your intuitive feeling?

So you think her popularity has increased since she won the 2011 election with her brother's help? The large minority that voted for her brother's political party has now grown into a majority of the electorate supporting her you think?

I don't think so matey. You underestimate how many former supporters were totally pissed at the constant lying, thieving, ludicrous management and the very obvious attempts at completely whitewashing Thaksin and themselves.

But, that's my opinion, Which like yours, is based on intuition, wishful thinking and bias - not facts.

2001, 2005, 2007, 2011 are facts

B4 2011 all the TVF yellow cheer-leading squad were asserting that the reds had lost sooooo much support because of the protests. & they were yet again WRONG!

The naivety of people to believe political allegiances change so easily.

Oh really? Ed Milliband might disagree.

The naivety to believe that people don't finally wake up and smell the shit.

Thaksin misjudged the response to the more and more open cheating and thieving, the more ridiculous lying and above all the response to his attempts at not only whitewashing himself and his family but putting them above the law.

Many people I know voted PTP and those same people all attended the protests that brought PTP down. None of them would vote PTP or any Shin owned political party again. They for the ludicrously titled Democrats, who simply represent the interests of the rich elite. Strangely most say they will vote for Prayuth if he stands. They aren't interested in the Western trumpeted democracy - it only brings them the elite or a gang of rich crooks. They want to see change. Will he deliver it - who knows?

Actually, the same thing is happening in many countries - people want change and are fed up with the same old choices not delivering. In the UK, Labor and Liberal found out to their cost whist SNP and UKIP gained massively. Political alliances are no longer as entrenched as you naively believe.

nonsense post again trying to suggest the UK might choose a military junta rather than the democratic system that produced a clear winner. 'Many people' is a joke as 'many people' I know are against the junta but know that they will rig the election as a 'Hobsons Choice'.

By the way UKIP were nearly annihilated (winning ONE seat) and there was a clear winner in the UK election. I suggest you should choose more carefully an example which you have, at least, a little knowledge of (clearly the same with Thai politics)

Slightly off topic but since you brought it up. In the last election in the UK the UKIP got a little over 4 million votes and gained 1 seat. The SNP polled less than half that number of votes and gained 56 seats. Perhaps if the FPTP way of elections were changed to proportional voting the UKIP may have got more seats than the SNP.

If that were to happen in Thailand and there were NO party list seats except for PR seats then maybe neither the Thaksin party at the time to come nor the Democrats could become a single party government.

[JAG]

"I admire the way in which she dealt with the PDRC s attempts to bring down her government"

Did you really write that JAG, I had to read it several times to make sure of what I was reading.

You are obviously referring to the peoples protest of 2014 against the amnesty bill and corruption within her Govt.

You don't know that there were protests all over the country :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Amnesty-opponents-to-rally-nationwide-30218654.html

I was at a couple of them taking photos so I don't really need a news report to tell me.

In other parts of the world even :

2013-11-09

"Opposition to the controversial amnesty bill has expanded beyond Thailand's borders, with Thai expatriates and students in several countries also staging their own protests.

The sound of whistles seems to be echoing around the world as Thais in a number of countries gather to express their disagreement about the bill. "

http://www.nationmul...r-30219115.html

You don't seem to realize that even the reds were dead against the amnesty bill, heck she would not even listen to her own supporters : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678356-more-and-more-red-shirts-taking-a-stand-against-thai-amnesty-bill/

More and more red shirts taking a stand against bill

You admire teargas being used against peaceful protesters, grenades and bullets fired at them on a nightly basis, you admire the killing of women and children, were you one of those who cheered when the news of the children being killed by a grenade was announced from the red stage ?

Robby nz, I admire the fact that she didn't declare "free fire zones". and authorise or allow widespread and indiscriminate firing on the protestors. Nor did she deploy troops on the skytrain tracks to shoot down into a temple full of people seeking shelter.

I never condoned the terror attacks on the protestors, (nor do I believe that Yingluck ordered or planned them).

To suggest that I cheered the grenading of children is obscene, and shows the lengths to which your automatic unconsidered repudiation of any views which do not chime with yours will take you. You should reconsider it, but I don't for a moment suppose you will. In fact my response, which I have wondered whether to make, will probably allow you to work up even more disgust.

You have taken what I said in my response to Ginjags rantings out of its context, and twisted it to mean, in your hyperbolic interpretation, something which I never never said or would say - to wit that I approve of the murder of children. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suspect that you will be glowing with self righteous satisfaction. I imagine you know the short (two word) Anglo Saxon phrase with which I would like to end this post, the moderators would not allow me to do so.

You wrote it and now you try to make excuses for yourself.

You even have the audacity to try to compare the armed riots of 2010 where the grenades were fired out of the rioters area at the military and civilians with the peaceful protests of 2014 where the grenades were fired into the protesters.

Your admiration is misplaced and it is you who should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to defend the indefensible.

I make no excuses. It is you who seek to excuse a wholly unwarranted, untrue allegation. You suggested I cheered the murder of children.

Discussing, however forthrightly the present and past of the Thai political situation is one thing, we hold wildly differing views, and are not afraid to express them. I am quite prepared to accept that you feel I should be "ashamed of myself", (not that I am).You have gone far beyond that in accusing me of something I have not done. You suggested that I cheered the murder of children . I Never did that. You said again that I wrote that, I never did.That is the indefensible.It is way beyond the discussion of politics. You should retract the allegation.

good for you! don't give in to the propaganda and ignorance of the junta supporters who should be embarrassed in their support for the military take-over - hypocrites!

Thank you for your support.

The junta supporters are entirely entitled to express their support for the regime and the way it came to power. After all, freedom of speech is central to my arguments. I disagree with them fundamentally and will always argue against their position.

That is not the basis of my fight with Robby nz. What he said in alleging that I cheered the murder of children was beyond the bounds of a political discussion. It is an awful allegation which is completely unfounded, and is nowhere supported by anything I have posted, ever. That is why I feel so strongly that it should be removed.

I didn't say they didn't have the right to express their right wing views I said they should be embarrassed by that support

Im not having a pop at you, just clarifying where I stand!

[rubl]

That's your intuitive feeling?

So you think her popularity has increased since she won the 2011 election with her brother's help? The large minority that voted for her brother's political party has now grown into a majority of the electorate supporting her you think?

I don't think so matey. You underestimate how many former supporters were totally pissed at the constant lying, thieving, ludicrous management and the very obvious attempts at completely whitewashing Thaksin and themselves.

But, that's my opinion, Which like yours, is based on intuition, wishful thinking and bias - not facts.

2001, 2005, 2007, 2011 are facts

B4 2011 all the TVF yellow cheer-leading squad were asserting that the reds had lost sooooo much support because of the protests. & they were yet again WRONG!

The naivety of people to believe political allegiances change so easily.

Oh really? Ed Milliband might disagree.

The naivety to believe that people don't finally wake up and smell the shit.

Thaksin misjudged the response to the more and more open cheating and thieving, the more ridiculous lying and above all the response to his attempts at not only whitewashing himself and his family but putting them above the law.

Many people I know voted PTP and those same people all attended the protests that brought PTP down. None of them would vote PTP or any Shin owned political party again. They for the ludicrously titled Democrats, who simply represent the interests of the rich elite. Strangely most say they will vote for Prayuth if he stands. They aren't interested in the Western trumpeted democracy - it only brings them the elite or a gang of rich crooks. They want to see change. Will he deliver it - who knows?

Actually, the same thing is happening in many countries - people want change and are fed up with the same old choices not delivering. In the UK, Labor and Liberal found out to their cost whist SNP and UKIP gained massively. Political alliances are no longer as entrenched as you naively believe.

nonsense post again trying to suggest the UK might choose a military junta rather than the democratic system that produced a clear winner. 'Many people' is a joke as 'many people' I know are against the junta but know that they will rig the election as a 'Hobsons Choice'.

By the way UKIP were nearly annihilated (winning ONE seat) and there was a clear winner in the UK election. I suggest you should choose more carefully an example which you have, at least, a little knowledge of (clearly the same with Thai politics)

True democracy, winning one seat while receiving more than a million votes. The NCPO can learn from that I'm sure.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck will turn up coming week to show her innocence, or at least use the opportunity she asked for to prove her innocence.

[LannaGuy]

Slightly off topic but since you brought it up. In the last election in the UK the UKIP got a little over 4 million votes and gained 1 seat. The SNP polled less than half that number of votes and gained 56 seats. Perhaps if the FPTP way of elections were changed to proportional voting the UKIP may have got more seats than the SNP.

If that were to happen in Thailand and there were NO party list seats except for PR seats then maybe neither the Thaksin party at the time to come nor the Democrats could become a single party government.

i didn't 'bring it up' dude - go check your FACTS

UKIP got 12%

PTP got ?????????????

an 'inconvenient truth' how can UKIP get more seats than SNP? explain???? SNP got substantially more than 12% - or is this MORE yellow spin???

[LannaGuy]

True democracy, winning one seat while receiving more than a million votes. The NCPO can learn from that I'm sure.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck will turn up coming week to show her innocence, or at least use the opportunity she asked for to prove her innocence.

it's a 'first past the post' democracy? you don't like it? would you support a Military Take Over? as you do here???

[Emster23]

If you picked any, and I mean ANY, person who works for Thai government in some white collar position and investigated, you would find corruption. From village teacher to very top. That is one of the "perks" of government job.

[rubl]

True democracy, winning one seat while receiving more than a million votes. The NCPO can learn from that I'm sure.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck will turn up coming week to show her innocence, or at least use the opportunity she asked for to prove her innocence.

it's a 'first past the post' democracy? you don't like it? would you support a Military Take Over? as you do here???

The believe that democracy and it's implementation in the Western World is the same as in Thailand and therefore to assume similar action/reaction seems a wee bit naive.

Anyway, with all the distractions regarding the topic it would seem some fear Ms. Yingluck might not be able to explain herself. Pity really that she so frequently publicly stated to be in charge, to have no problems, to be successful, etc., etc. Difficult to ignore.

[djjamie]

yingluck's rice scheme defence.

[billd766]

Slightly off topic but since you brought it up. In the last election in the UK the UKIP got a little over 4 million votes and gained 1 seat. The SNP polled less than half that number of votes and gained 56 seats. Perhaps if the FPTP way of elections were changed to proportional voting the UKIP may have got more seats than the SNP.

If that were to happen in Thailand and there were NO party list seats except for PR seats then maybe neither the Thaksin party at the time to come nor the Democrats could become a single party government.

i didn't 'bring it up' dude - go check your FACTS

UKIP got 12%

PTP got ?????????????

an 'inconvenient truth' how can UKIP get more seats than SNP? explain???? SNP got substantially more than 12% - or is this MORE yellow spin???

Absolutely more "yellow" spin from me and the BBC News in the UK.

If you don't believe me and you don't believe the BBC in the % of UK votes than I suggest you change your medicine.

% of the UK votes

UKIP 12.6%

SNP 4.7%

Even the Lib/Dems got a bigger % of the votes than the SNP but only have 8 MPs

http://www.bbc.com/news/election/2015/results

UK vote share after 650 of 650 seats Party % CON 36.9 LAB 30.4 UKIP 12.6 LD 7.9 SNP 4.7 GRN 3.8

From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015

What PR voting would mean in the UK

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32601281