Our committees doings, stuff for a movie?

[zappalot]

The management of our building as well as the committee still acting everything but professional. I want to give you a glimpse about what's going on:

The previous committee members have been all corrupt. They did in the building whatever they want including not paying the maintenance fees. They made changes in public areas, they changed office area into living zone area. And so on and so on. They never asked for permission for anything at the annual general meeting. They even faked the elections at the AGM for new committee terms.

Only a few knew about that. We actually got behind all this because it was me who checked the monthly income clarification of the management. You simply need to calculate the square meters of the building and how many baht per square meter you have to pay for the maintenance fee per month. There was a huge gap between what should come in and what actually came in.

We found out that the one committee member owing 40 to 50 million baht in maintenance fee to the building is working together with the buildings manager who is the son of the owner of one of the biggest management groups in Bangkok. That was another reason why they never paid maintenance fees.

The management even issued fake documents for the one owing more then 40 million baht to the building when he wanted to sell his apartments saying that there was no debit. Lies, only lies, wherever we looked at.

And I didn't see why we pay our maintenance fee but many don't. Digging deeper we got into contact with a small group. But they feared to take action. They said that it is not easy in Thailand to take action against people of power.

As I heard of on anticorruption command of the Army I suggested to report this and finally the Army stepped in. By going from door to door collecting signatures we arranged an extraordinary AGM.

The old committee was kicked out. But if you think the situation changed to the better then you are wrong. My wife and me we thought to fight on the right side but:

Unfortunately there was no change of the company managing our building. So the old management company fears that they get sued by the committee because they let it happen that some co-owners didn't pay their maintenance fees for 20 years. This is why they keep very quiet now, following every order the committee gives and not stepping in at all.

The committee then, now consisting out of nine members, agreed to that someone without any reputation in the financial field should, for 100,000 baht per month, bring in any amounts of maintenance fees not paid in the past. Of course we are sure that some of the committee members happily share some of this 100,000 baht per month. But we can't prove it. And actually this is a job to be done by the management.

And more to come:

When we bought our second apartment we asked for permission to build a second entrance door to our new apartment. As of the minutes of one committee meeting we got this approval. On the day we made this door we again called the management company to make sure that no one will complain afterwards. They said everything is perfectly fine, just continue. In the previous AGM we were told we should call the land department if they have any problems if we make another door to our apartment. Of course the land department had no objections. Anyway, it was the wrong place to ask for permission. But how could we know better? If the management of the building telling us that this was the right way to go.

Actually in this building there are 54 cases where co-owners changed their doors or anything that they would have need to get approval from the AGM.

And now after my wife didn't agree to lock the emergency exits in the building and didn't agree as well to change the bylaw without asking the AGM suddenly they want us to close our second entrance to our apartment. The committee member asking us to close the door changed her door by herself as well. But of course she insists that this is a different story.

So one another question is: if there are 54 breaches of the condo law of the same issue in the common area of the building can they only ask one to undo the changes? The committee member with some power does not need to undo her changes and the one with no power need to undo her changes?

[blackcab]

He owed 40 million baht in CAM fees? How much are the CAM fees per square meter? If we went with 40 baht per square meter per month and that person didn't pay for the last 20 years, he would have to own 4,200 square meters of property. That's 42 x one hundred square meter condos.

Did I get my sums wrong, because that seems like a lot of units for one person to own and not pay fees on for a couple of decades.

Edited May 21, 2015 by blackcab

[zappalot]

No, The one not paying the maintenance fee has to pay up to 20% interest on his debits.

I am too lazy to read the bylaw now but it was close to 20% what can be charged but here it is calculated with 12% only. And yes, they have about 20 apartments and office space...

[Bung]

Id just stick to watching people with binoculars through lifting a corner of your curtains

[KittenKong]

Yes, debts plus interest can add up quite fast. Two rates are applicable, depending on the age of the debt (12% and 20%).

Unfortunately lies, corruption, fraud and cheating are par for the course in condo building management in Thailand. If it isnt the management company it's the JPM or the committee or the staff, or all of them.

Never trust anyone here when it comes to condo money. Check everything and assume that everyone is either an idiot or is practising some scam or another, regardless of the colour of their skin. Do that and you wont go far wrong.

[ripley]

Anti-corruption unit of the Thai Army?? They actually came and cleaned up the original mess?

I'd like to know more about this Anti-corruption unit. How did you contact them? What information and proofs did you have to provide before they stepped in? Did they impose punishment or penalties on the wrong-doers? Anything you can tell us would be most interesting and helpful.

Incidentally - congrats on finding and approaching them. That was well done.

The tale of your new committee immediately adopting corrupt practices is an old story but I never get used to it and to how quickly people can turn on you. And, after the Army caught the previous committee one would think the new one would watch its P's and Q's. At least for a while.

I'm beginning to think that some of us should band together and write a book. Or maybe establish a Topic here on TVF where people tell of their experiences with condominiums. Might make a good read & supply us with a source of information as well. We'd need to limit the amount of space given each contributor and have an editor to correct English spelling and grammar. But it might be a thought worth exploring. Whaddya think? Shall we "run it up the flagpole and see who salutes'?

Sure hope you find your way thru this maze you're caught in. Believe me, you're not alone.

[Johnny S]

Sounds like a nightmare - I dont blame you for not writing name of the Condominium since it will keep potential buyers and tennants away for sure but it sounds like Riverside in CM - what a dump that is with one scam after another ...

Hope you get out of this with not to big a loss

[AlQaholic]

1. If any owner has long standing debts to the condo the committe/management can go to court and get a forclosure and auction the units in question. In this case however it seems there are falsified documents showing that there are no debts, so then it becomes more difficult. Only way out of this is to go to Police with sufficient evidence, then again you are up against powerful people so do not go that way either. Difficult.situation ineed, cannot give any straightforward advice on this point.

2. Change management a.s.a.p. Not a management company but an individual manager that reports to the committe directly and only to the committe. I suspect that the existing management company has ties/connections with previous committe members.

3. Make a list of all instances where modifications has been done in breach of the bylaws, this must then be addressed at the next AGM. Make sure that there are written and signed documents of approval for those modifications by the commite/management. If there is no documented approval, the modifications (all of those that do not have approval) must be reverted back to original design. Clear and simple. In the case some modifications has written approval and some similar or same modifications on other units do not have written approval, the AGM must take a vote about what to do.

modifications need approval by the committe, The committe will simply look at the bylaws, if the bylaws says it is not allowed, the committe cannot allow it. It is not up to the AGM to approve or not approve indivdual modifications as it is already stated in the bylaws what is allowed/not allowed.

4. For proving or not proving ongoing corrupt practices, it is not easy as receipts and othe documents can be falsified as before, like I said, change of management may be a push in the right direction. Anyway all monthly income and expenses should be scrutinized by the committe on an ongoing basis, with frequent follow up discussions with the manager. The Chairperson is a key player in this activity.

Remember that the Chairperson is legally responsible for the running of the condo and looking out for the interests of all co-owners. There are a number of things that can go wrong and the Chairperson will be the first to go to jail and face penaly fines. Chairperson can only sit for 2 years I think, then a new Chairperson must be elected.

I would also take a look at the sinking fund...it should be fully funded unless someone has been stealing from it.

Edited May 22, 2015 by AlQaholic

[zappalot]

here a pic from one session when the military has been here:

[watcharacters]

here a pic from one session when the military has been here:

It appears you were able to use the management's office to host the meeting with the military charged with investigating the management.

I knew a fellow in one of the View Taley buildings who started to make an issue about the lack of pool maintenance. His wife told him if he wanted to remain unharmed he'd better drop all his protests.

Good luck to you.

Edited May 22, 2015 by watcharacters

[AlQaholic]

View Talay is legendary for its corruption, everyone knows it is corrupt.

[northernrock]

Does anyone have the names of any reputable management companies? I'm on the committee of a large condominium, and would like to find a suitable company to manage the building, which has shops, offices and apartments.

[krisb]

Well thanks and very sorry it's at your experience and sadly expense, but I'll no longer be looking at any condo in Thailand. Hornets nest comes to mind.

[user82374298374]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I don't buy in Thailand - just rent.

[ggt]

Lies, only lies, wherever we looked at.

This fairly well sums up my overall experience in Thailand...thanks for reminding me...

[KittenKong]

Does anyone have the names of any reputable management companies? I'm on the committee of a large condominium, and would like to find a suitable company to manage the building, which has shops, offices and apartments.

I was quite impressed by Jones Lang Lasalle. They arent cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but I got the impression that they would provide a quality service with good oversight. Of course I could be completely wrong.

The problem with many Thai companies (and Thai staff for that matter) is that they only want to do the minimum amount of work possible, which doesnt make them very good at management in my opinion. Good management has to be on top of everything all the time, especially here.

[KittenKong]

View Talay is legendary for its corruption, everyone knows it is corrupt.

Do you mean the developers or the management companies or the committees or the residents?

There are several different management companies involved with the various VT buildings.

[dotpoom]

Id just stick to watching people with binoculars through lifting a corner of your curtains

Like myself....you come from the "Valley of the squinting windows"

[AlQaholic]

View Talay is legendary for its corruption, everyone knows it is corrupt.

Do you mean the developers or the management companies or the committees or the residents?

There are several different management companies involved with the various VT buildings.

I can't say which Talay (for protection of certain people) but it is the committee, We have had a manager in the past from Talay begging to work in our Condo because of the corruption there.

[KittenKong]

I can't say which Talay (for protection of certain people) but it is the committee, We have had a manager in the past from Talay begging to work in our Condo because of the corruption there.

The committee only lasts two years, or four if they serve a second term. And if you have any sort of proof you can vote them out early.

So it should not be too hard to get rid of them.