The truth really does hurt

[kannot]

Well no doubt the apologists will all chip in to this one.

In the last 3-4 years I have been trying to get staff to work on our land ( yes lets not get into the you own nothing argument) they've come and gone, the longest stay was 6 months and most don't make it past a month two at best.

The job is easy, get the weeds out feed the fish keep the land tidy and water the trees.

Out of the 12 -14that we have had only 2 could actually do it, one of those left saying the work was " too hard" the other like many just says their Father is sick, this is code for we are going to a new job.

Now you can argue the salary is low but checking with Thai neighbours they say we pay too much we pay 18000 baht for two people a month with free house electric water motorbike and fuel + free rice.

The simple fact is most of them are bone idle, the last who has just gone spent 5 weeks doing virtually nothing. The land was empty as I had to get back to the UK and the Wife is in BKK.

2 new staff arrived today, the girls first words were " not convenient to get food" followed 10 minutes later by she is sick and will have to go back to Burma. The boy will stay apparently......... a good start.

So my generalisation is many Thais really are Bone idle..........now I say Thais but in fact some are Burmese although we have had hill tribe folk and Laotian and some Thais..............to be honest no difference in attitude or work ethic. Simple truth is Thai s don't want this type of work at all in fact security guard seems to be the ultimate aim for most of the low paid workers, this involves clicking heels saluting and sleeping at night from what Ive seen.

So you wonder ( well you probably don't) how I get my opinion on many Thai people, of course they are the lowest paid workers but its also the opinion of the local shop owners who tell my Wife the same that why is it always like this with staff.

Doesn't matter how well you treat them, in fact the better you treat them the worse they seem to be.

Fire away if this post doesn't get removed.

[kannot]

Yep........Because, perhaps a farang millinaire involved..............Easy money..

Wife employed them Im not there currently and they dont know feeeelthy rich falang involved.

[Morakot]

Interesting!

What type of work and how skilled do they need to be?

Yes, the wages sound very reasonable if you're in the rural North.

[pigeonjake]

kannot i tend to agree with you,

my father inlaw, will sit in his hamock all day, they work when its rice time, thats it 3 months of the year,

the mother inlaw does a bit grows a bit of veg to sell,

you see it all round the village there isnt many thai men that want to work,(in the villages im talking about)

i wanted some to put some fence posts in for me, i ended up doing them myself, they would come one day then have 2 off spending the monet they earned,

[kannot]

Interesting!

What type of work and how skilled do they need to be?

Yes, the wages sound very reasonable if you're in the rural North.

To be honest this is a dream turning sour slowly, i thought buy some land get some staff sit back and enjoy growing trees,

Reality is have ended up doing it all myself which is no joke, Im not the only one, my Wife thought the same, shes is seeing how lazy people are "now" want everything but want to do nothing for it, her words..

Im in Sam Roi Yot area inland 16km form the sea RURAL, checked the locals for staff prices, the work is simple, see ANY weed pull it out, feed fish twice a day once in morning once at night ( they get free fish too 60cm long), water trees once a day. cut hedge once a week..................doesnt need a brain surgery degree does it.

Not only that to make it easy for them we have petrol hedge cutter, sprinklers grass strimmers.

What weve also told them is "look its hot working on the land" they can choose the hours they work, we suggested 6 am to 10 am then 3pm to 7pm but up to them but 8 hours a day 6 days a week.

Edited May 22, 2015 by kannot

[kannot]

Yep........Because, perhaps a farang millinaire involved..............Easy money..

Wife employed them Im not there currently and they dont know feeeelthy rich falang involved.

You reckon.....?.................

Well the new pair arrived today Wife brought them from BKK they havent had a chance to go out yet and talk to any locals to tell them Im Flangggggggggggg utang.

[krisb]

What area are you in?

[Morakot]

Interesting!

What type of work and how skilled do they need to be?

Yes, the wages sound very reasonable if you're in the rural North.

To be honest this is a dream turning sour slowly, i thought buy some land get some staff sit back and enjoy growing trees,

Reality is have ended up doing it all myself which is no joke, Im not the only one, my Wife thought the same, shes is seeing how lazy people are "now" want everything but want to do nothing for it, her words..

Im in Sam Roi Yot area inland 16km form the sea RURAL, checked the locals for staff prices, the work is simple, see ANY weed pull it out, feed fish twice a day once in morning once at night ( they get free fish too 60cm long), water trees once a day. cut hedge once a week..................doesnt need a brain surgery degree does it.

Not only that to make it easy for them we have petrol hedge cutter, sprinklers grass strimmers.

See what you mean. Had similar experiences for getting people to do skilled and unskilled building work.

I'm in the Bangkok area. People refused outright to do some rather heavy and dirty work, like digging trenches for draining land that is inaccessible to machinery. For more skilled work, rarely did tradesmen turn up with proper tools. I had several people running away after a few hours work --without even taken any pay-- when things turned not to go to plan (as it sometimes can happen in construction).

I spoke to some Thais who also to tried to get reliable workers. Same story! I'm under the impression their is a severe shortage of manual workers. This makes it possible that people can be choosy. I think a remote location can aggravate the problem as there are just not enough people to do the work.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Morakot

[roamer]

Be interesting to see some posts from people that do NOT have these problems with Thai staff. Not saying you are doing anything wrong, just wondering what some people are doing right. Or is it simply the work, land work being not what they fancy ? Certainly in the UK we tend to recruit workers from the former Eastern bloc for this type of work.

Really not going for the "rich" farang scenario, has to be more to this problem that many people on here seem to be complaining about. And if this were true of all Thai's then industrial output would be dropping like a stone and foreign investors would have quit years ago.

[DLock]

Kannot, this is almost identical my circumstance.

I gave 20,000 baht per month for couple - wife worked in house, husband in the garden.

I gave them a small house with all utilities, TV as well as a motorbike that I fueled. 5 day week only, but animals needed to be fed all days. They even got the use of the truck when they needed it on a weekend.

Tried many couples. Upped the salary to 24,000 baht per month, but they just did not want to work and expected a week off at Songkran, Loy Kratong and New Year. Excuse after excuse why they had to go somewhere else or could not work...but still expected full pay.

Eventually, I gave up, and hired staff by the day - and gave up on housing staff. Has worked out much better and my staff are very good. Local people who are reliable, trustworthy and happy.

I know there are people that will say I pay to low, but where I live this is a very good salary. More than most make per month...

[kannot]

Kannot, this is almost identical my circumstance.

I gave 20,000 baht per month for couple - wife worked in house, husband in the garden.

I gave them a small house with all utilities, TV as well as a motorbike that I fueled. 5 day week only, but animals needed to be fed all days. They even got the use of the truck when they needed it on a weekend.

Tried many couples. Upped the salary to 24,000 baht per month, but they just did not want to work and expected a week off at Songkran, Loy Kratong and New Year. Excuse after excuse why they had to go somewhere else or could not work...but still expected full pay.

Eventually, I gave up, and hired staff by the day - and gave up on housing staff. Has worked out much better and my staff are very good. Local people who are reliable, trustworthy and happy.

I know there are people that will say I pay to low, but where I live this is a very good salary. More than most make per month...

My Wife's saying pay someone to come daily now but the problem is trees need watering daily fish need feeding daily and they need to be here everyday, she thinks them not living on site will be better.

She has a sister who we have employed, shes great, tidy careful hardworking but cant come for long periods and has a useless son who tells her she cant come to us (incredible but true)

It is getting to be a real problem now, thing is its NOT skilled work in any way and even the burmese are starting to turn their noses up at this, they want gas station jobs.

The amount you pay them makes no difference and paying 24k a month is way way too high.

[Varrius]

Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.

Get real.

[Morakot]

The amount you pay them makes no difference

Perhaps you should give them additional incentives. Like that they can progress and become the "chief gardener" or something if they work hard and stay with you. Like some long-term prospect and some prestige... I know it's not easy, but might work if you're creative somehow.

[kannot]

Be interesting to see some posts from people that do NOT have these problems with Thai staff. Not saying you are doing anything wrong, just wondering what some people are doing right. Or is it simply the work, land work being not what they fancy ? Certainly in the UK we tend to recruit workers from the former Eastern bloc for this type of work.

Really not going for the "rich" farang scenario, has to be more to this problem that many people on here seem to be complaining about. And if this were true of all Thai's then industrial output would be dropping like a stone and foreign investors would have quit years ago.

Am not sure its a case of what they are doing right so much as the general "lazyness"

The stupid thing is if they worked well the salary and perks would get a lot better as after all this time Id be very happy to keep them.

It also seems that maybe "eventually" the right person will come along like my Wifes Sister but without the baggage of the useless son

[kannot]

The amount you pay them makes no difference

Perhaps you should give them additional incentives. Like that they can progress and become the "chief gardener" or something if they work hard and stay with you. Like some long-term prospect and some prestige... I know it's not easy, but might work if you're creative somehow.

Id get them a shiny suit n boots with a whistle if it worked, another problem is they never tell you if theres something they dont like they just go, discussing anything seems a big no no we find out from the agent in some cases other times we can guess, generally "work too hard" when really it isnt but of course nothing beats sitting on yer arse all day.

[kannot]

Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.

Get real.

Pray tell how you "vet" employees in Thailand? its not like they turn up with a 10 year reference from anywhere

Weve had people sent to us by a neighbour who said they were ok and werent and then later neighbour admitted the woman was lazy.

I work with them all day usually so I see how they work, the laziest need the toilet every 15 minutes or a cigarette break every 15 minutes. We get rid of the useless pretty fast.

I am the overseer or if Im not here my Wife.

Im not "that bloke" who sits in the house all day I actually get out and right down into ANY work, that can be hole digging, pipe laying block laying roofing etc etc

Edited May 22, 2015 by kannot

[ttthailand]

You could hire 4 of those boat people and they would be happy.... Well maybe for a month or two ..... Not too sure many southeast Asians really want to work hard or full time.

[kannot]

What area are you in?

Sam roi yot Pranburi

[kannot]

You could hire 4 of those boat people and they would be happy.... Well maybe for a month or two ..... Not too sure many southeast Asians really want to work hard or full time.

Already mentioned to the Wife in fact id be happy to give them a chance ..................but?????????? do they end up the same over time? makes you wonder.

We have employed Karon people and other Hilltribe folk, no joy. I think its more down to the individual they either are the hard working type or they aint. Sadly most arent by the looks of things

[MaeJoMTB]

We live in a modern world where low level manual work just isn't appealing.

The only people prepared to do it are the land owners and the desperate, and maybe the slightly simple.

People just aren't that desperate these days, I see no solution to your problem.

I suppose you could marry a foreigner, convince them it is their land, and get them to work for nothing until they drop ....... no, wait ........

Edited May 22, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Mr Somtam]

Don't let anybody tell you you are a cheap charley! I have had builders here doing really heavy work (roofing, welding, block laying, digging, pouring concrete) and they were very happy with 300 baht per day. That's about 6,500 per month for 5 days a week... So for your 20,000 plus extras I could get 3 people working their ass off... People around here would call that job a winning lottery ticket! Watering trees, feeding fish and animals, sounds like a holiday!

[buhi]

Do you have air conditioning on your land? That might help. People from temperate climates know how to plan for the yearly seasonal changes..Sitting around in a nice air conditioned environment is better than sweating outside.

Protestant work ethic is what it used to be known as!

[weegee]

Kannot..

Theres a house being built next door...i have mentioned it before on TVF...The builder was doing a fantastic job, but then he started bringing in cheaper labour to do finishing etc...The TVF member building has.. had enough.. and is now on his 4th Tiler...WHO IS the best i have seen laying tiles ever...But it took 4 tilers to get the right job...The windows werent square and the sliders wouldn't close the windows....thats after 2 times trying to fix them...It goes on and on.

The Painter has wrecked the place with paint over window sils and in general never comes before lunch....Now there's a holdup I believe, as the painted is going to be a monk for a while, and another painter has to be found....

The guy building (one of us) started out so happy and contented when the house started, but now all he wants is for them to be gone, and he can do repairs, to their new home, himself...

SO...point is , some are good and some are plain usless as well.....It's just pot luck.

To answer the question on Day rate...forget it i tried that when building years ago...Offer them an Hourly rate only for the hours worked, and tell them if they havent started the day before 8am...dont start, try again tomorrow, if theres a vacancy before 8am, they can start.......THAT works !

[metisdead]

Moved to the business forum.

[kannot]

Do you have air conditioning on your land? That might help. People from temperate climates know how to plan for the yearly seasonal changes..Sitting around in a nice air conditioned environment is better than sweating outside.

Protestant work ethic is what it used to be known as!

Yes we do.... did you read the bit about starting at 6am to 10am then 3-7pm temps then are ok for working at "this" time of year.

[kannot]

We live in a modern world where low level manual work just isn't appealing.

The only people prepared to do it are the land owners and the desperate, and maybe the slightly simple.

People just aren't that desperate these days, I see no solution to your problem.

I suppose you could marry a foreigner, convince them it is their land, and get them to work for nothing until they drop ....... no, wait ........

I "did" marry a foreigner ( after all she aint English) and she "is" convinced she owns the land ( The papers say nor sor sam gor and her name with a usufruct) and she does work for nothing on that land that she owns............does that help you?

[weegee]

lol....all that salary, and plus fresh fish as well.....There must be hundreds of Falang that would kill for the job......

Do you have a pool for your staff?....if so, Im applying....solly have no WP though, would have to be cash.....

[kannot]

lol....all that salary, and plus fresh fish as well.....There must be hundreds of Falang that would kill for the job......

Do you have a pool for your staff?....if so, Im applying....solly have no WP though, would have to be cash.....

Pool is 7 metres deep about 1 rai in area with over 4000 fish many 60cm Pla Nin Pla Tapien, swimming costume optional suggest may be better for the males as fish may assume "worm" in the water and may bite

[kannot]

My Wife wants to know this

The Thais used to work the land, then moved into gas stations and Tesco and security guards, now she says those jobs are more often being done by Burmese and wonders what all the Thais have moved on to?

[Lukecan]

Employ burmese workers, they'll be more than content on a 18,000 baht salary. Thailand is getting richer and richer, Thais dont want to those manual labor jobs anymore, thats why more and more people are resorting to hire Burmese workers.