Tourist Police Dreamworld

[FolkGuitar]

I guess what this all means is that the entire concept is wrong, the entire organization is corrupt, and all of it should be shut down.

At the same time, everyone should turn in their Christian Bibles as there have been entirely too many priests arrested for child molesting. The Church certainly should have done a better job vetting potential clerics, and spent a LOT more time over-seeing the actions of individuals charged with teaching morality and right behavior, and exercising power over a general public.

Perhaps, we need to get rid of the police forces in the US? After all, a few officers have wrongfully killed unarmed suspects.

Some soldiers have massacred hundreds of innocent civilians in the last few years. Perhaps we need to abolish the Military.

Let's get real. There is no question there are a few bad apples in the bunch. I doubt anyone is saying that there aren't. That's going to happen in ANY organization. In other threads people have discussed police corruption. Not volunteers foreigners, but salaried Thais. Does this mean there shouldn't be a Thai police force?

The problem isn't the Volunteer Tourist Police Force. The problem is a few bad members.

If this is a problem it is a problem or the Police Force or the voluneer Tourist Police Force. If there are bad members in them it is a problem for all people. The controlling organizations should control their members first. If they cannot or are unwilling to do that they are unfit to purport to control others.

So you are saying that because there are bad human beings all of humanity should get together and control them?

Same principal just on a larger scale. Is it happening?

Actually yes, that is why the members of society make rules and then enforce them. What is happening too often though is that some do not enforce the rules by the book but by their pocket or ego, this should be stopped by those charged with controlling them.

Wonderful use of the word "should."

But until they actually "do," do you think the programs or entire organizations need to be shut down?

[NickJ]

I think I remeber that guy Junglechef....if its the guy who drove around in a humvee that had all kind of police decals all over it. He seemed to have a pretty big entourage.....I heard he had peoblems but never knew anything else.

[LivinLOS]

I guess what this all means is that the entire concept is wrong, the entire organization is corrupt, and all of it should be shut down.

A few bad apples ?? Pretty much every one of the pattaya ones I have seen stomping around in all black jackboot uniforms were on a power trip.. You could add a majority of the phuket bangla road patrol too.

So yes, I am very wary of anyone who will go to such lengths to pay from their own pocket to be able to wear a uniform to tell other what to do (while breaking the law themselves). We already have murderers and drug dealers shown to be in their ranks, clearly the background checks and training is inadequate. For gods sake you had a madman running around with automatic weapons ramming cars in car chases and firing off guns at people !!

Immigration volunteers handing out information.. Sure thats helpful.. Tourist POLICE ?? Get a good clear get ta <deleted> from me.. They are not police police, they have no rights over me, and I will absolutely stand my ground at any that attempt to. Why do they carry handcuffs if they have no powers of detention ??

I said when the scheme started a decade ago these abuses of power would happen.. they did.. I said it would attract the wrong mentality.. it has.. It also has become lots of fiefdoms and power games between different police and immigration departments, who has the most pet farangs, yet they dont back the farangs up when things actually go down (TVPs on strike in Phuket a couple of months ago). The whole idea is wrong headed and badly organised from the start.

[LivinLOS]

I guess what this all means is that the entire concept is wrong, the entire organization is corrupt, and all of it should be shut down.

At the same time, everyone should turn in their Christian Bibles as there have been entirely too many priests arrested for child molesting. The Church certainly should have done a better job vetting potential clerics, and spent a LOT more time over-seeing the actions of individuals charged with teaching morality and right behavior, and exercising power over a general public.

Perhaps, we need to get rid of the police forces in the US? After all, a few officers have wrongfully killed unarmed suspects.

Some soldiers have massacred hundreds of innocent civilians in the last few years. Perhaps we need to abolish the Military.

Let's get real. There is no question there are a few bad apples in the bunch. I doubt anyone is saying that there aren't. That's going to happen in ANY organization. In other threads people have discussed police corruption. Not volunteers foreigners, but salaried Thais. Does this mean there shouldn't be a Thai police force?

The problem isn't the Volunteer Tourist Police Force. The problem is a few bad members.

If this is a problem it is a problem or the Police Force or the voluneer Tourist Police Force. If there are bad members in them it is a problem for all people. The controlling organizations should control their members first. If they cannot or are unwilling to do that they are unfit to purport to control others.

So you are saying that because there are bad human beings all of humanity should get together and control them?

Same principal just on a larger scale. Is it happening?

No I think what we are saying is

1) any system must be 100% legal from the outset. Especially as enforcers of the law.

2) it must have a clear controlling body, with a complaints process and redress and accountability against bad behaviour on the job (punishment)

3) there must be a national chain of command and hierachy, not just some random local pooyais idea of what he wants

4) there MUST be a clear mandate of what rights and responsibilities are involved, we have been told countless times how they have no powers of arrest yet then hear how they 'detained' someone until Thai officers can arrest them.. What is detention if not arrest.

5) they must be trained.. The idea of random Walts out there with handcuffs (easy to break a wrist) and pepper spray with zero training is just mad.

6) there must be ongoing training in all these areas..

If these simple steps cant be managed.. Then its better it didnt exist as a police force / tool. Theres simply too much room for abuse and appealing to totally the wrong kind of person least suited to the role/

[Rimmer]

A Libellous troll post making sweeping generalisations has been removed.

[brommers]

Lets get back to Dreamworld .

Our Governor has introduced the concept of Chiang Mai as a slow city with a speed limit of 40kmh in the inner city. What the hell does that have to do with a drunken kid killing people at 5am in Doi Saket? Nothing.

The co-ordinator of a network promoting C.M. self management has said his group will push for the enforcement of the 40kmh limit and encourage inner city residents to grow edible plants. What is this guy smoking.

Our esteemed Mayor is responding to the slow city policy by planning to launch 21 spots where people can borrow bicycles!! Presumably to enable more moronic tourists to wobble all over the roads and cause more carnage!!

The same mayor said we have 20-seat buses with bike racks operating in the inner city. Why?

And the said mayor stated in the same press please that anyone building in the inner city must incorporate Lanna architecture and paint in earth tones. I am sure that will save many lives from accidents caused by crazed architects and house painters.

All this was reported today in a national newspaper.

A Dreamworld. I rest my case.

[junglechef]

Here's something i just read concerning Tourist Police

http://www.bangkokscams.com/

I didn't see any scam going on. I saw people asking for directions and receiving them. I see that often here in Chiang Mai. I myself will often see some one with looking at a map and ask if I can help them. Am I scamming? I thought I was trying to be helpful.

I hope your joking, well think so but one of these, , is always helpful esp. with dry humor

But if not one has to not only look at the pretty pictures but actually read the words.

"There were a total of SIX scammers here trying to extort money from foreign tourists"

As for your helping a lost tourist, which I do too, not really what were talking about here (if this is still a continuation of the joke I apologize for being so humorless today)

[FolkGuitar]

I guess what this all means is that the entire concept is wrong, the entire organization is corrupt, and all of it should be shut down.

At the same time, everyone should turn in their Christian Bibles as there have been entirely too many priests arrested for child molesting. The Church certainly should have done a better job vetting potential clerics, and spent a LOT more time over-seeing the actions of individuals charged with teaching morality and right behavior, and exercising power over a general public.

Perhaps, we need to get rid of the police forces in the US? After all, a few officers have wrongfully killed unarmed suspects.

Some soldiers have massacred hundreds of innocent civilians in the last few years. Perhaps we need to abolish the Military.

Let's get real. There is no question there are a few bad apples in the bunch. I doubt anyone is saying that there aren't. That's going to happen in ANY organization. In other threads people have discussed police corruption. Not volunteers foreigners, but salaried Thais. Does this mean there shouldn't be a Thai police force?

The problem isn't the Volunteer Tourist Police Force. The problem is a few bad members.

If this is a problem it is a problem or the Police Force or the voluneer Tourist Police Force. If there are bad members in them it is a problem for all people. The controlling organizations should control their members first. If they cannot or are unwilling to do that they are unfit to purport to control others.

So you are saying that because there are bad human beings all of humanity should get together and control them?

Same principal just on a larger scale. Is it happening?

No I think what we are saying is

1) any system must be 100% legal from the outset. Especially as enforcers of the law.

2) it must have a clear controlling body, with a complaints process and redress and accountability against bad behaviour on the job (punishment)

3) there must be a national chain of command and hierachy, not just some random local pooyais idea of what he wants

4) there MUST be a clear mandate of what rights and responsibilities are involved, we have been told countless times how they have no powers of arrest yet then hear how they 'detained' someone until Thai officers can arrest them.. What is detention if not arrest.

5) they must be trained.. The idea of random Walts out there with handcuffs (easy to break a wrist) and pepper spray with zero training is just mad.

6) there must be ongoing training in all these areas..

If these simple steps cant be managed.. Then its better it didnt exist as a police force / tool. Theres simply too much room for abuse and appealing to totally the wrong kind of person least suited to the role/

I agree with you 100%... right up to your last line.

According to your summation, there shouldn't be any police force, military, religious organizations, etc., etc... anyone with any power or control over the civilian population, because ALL OF THEM suffer from the same problems as the Volunteer Tourist Police.

The newspapers are filled daily with misconduct by members of all organizations. It would be great if we lived in a "Perfect Word," but we don't. So perhaps it's best not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We certainly need to clear up the problems, but it's not going to happen over night nor will it be 100%.

By your alternative, we'd have absolutely no Police.

[northernjohn]

I guess what this all means is that the entire concept is wrong, the entire organization is corrupt, and all of it should be shut down.

At the same time, everyone should turn in their Christian Bibles as there have been entirely too many priests arrested for child molesting. The Church certainly should have done a better job vetting potential clerics, and spent a LOT more time over-seeing the actions of individuals charged with teaching morality and right behavior, and exercising power over a general public.

Perhaps, we need to get rid of the police forces in the US? After all, a few officers have wrongfully killed unarmed suspects.

Some soldiers have massacred hundreds of innocent civilians in the last few years. Perhaps we need to abolish the Military.

Let's get real. There is no question there are a few bad apples in the bunch. I doubt anyone is saying that there aren't. That's going to happen in ANY organization. In other threads people have discussed police corruption. Not volunteers foreigners, but salaried Thais. Does this mean there shouldn't be a Thai police force?

The problem isn't the Volunteer Tourist Police Force. The problem is a few bad members.

If this is a problem it is a problem or the Police Force or the voluneer Tourist Police Force. If there are bad members in them it is a problem for all people. The controlling organizations should control their members first. If they cannot or are unwilling to do that they are unfit to purport to control others.

So you are saying that because there are bad human beings all of humanity should get together and control them?

Same principal just on a larger scale. Is it happening?

Actually yes, that is why the members of society make rules and then enforce them. What is happening too often though is that some do not enforce the rules by the book but by their pocket or ego, this should be stopped by those charged with controlling them.

You say yes it is then describe why it is not happening.

You dream man is not perfect and therefore his doings will never be perfect.

Accept it and live a happier life. Reality is not a bitch trying to make it perfect is a bitch.

[northernjohn]

Here's something i just read concerning Tourist Police

http://www.bangkokscams.com/

I didn't see any scam going on. I saw people asking for directions and receiving them. I see that often here in Chiang Mai. I myself will often see some one with looking at a map and ask if I can help them. Am I scamming? I thought I was trying to be helpful.

I hope your joking, well think so but one of these, , is always helpful esp. with dry humor

But if not one has to not only look at the pretty pictures but actually read the words.

"There were a total of SIX scammers here trying to extort money from foreign tourists"

As for your helping a lost tourist, which I do too, not really what were talking about here (if this is still a continuation of the joke I apologize for being so humorless today)

Yes it said six scammers there but it showed a picture of people being helped. What is the scam? How do you look at an honest picture and see hidden intent. There may well have been 100 tourist police around. But where was the scam? If a picture of you helping some one was on the front page of the paper would that make you a scammer?

I know you better than to think you are a Thai basher so can you explain the scam going there and prove it was not an honest attempt at help.

Edited May 24, 2015 by northernjohn

[MESmith]

Here's something i just read concerning Tourist Police

http://www.bangkokscams.com/

I didn't see any scam going on. I saw people asking for directions and receiving them. I see that often here in Chiang Mai. I myself will often see some one with looking at a map and ask if I can help them. Am I scamming? I thought I was trying to be helpful.

I hope your joking, well think so but one of these, , is always helpful esp. with dry humor

But if not one has to not only look at the pretty pictures but actually read the words.

"There were a total of SIX scammers here trying to extort money from foreign tourists"

As for your helping a lost tourist, which I do too, not really what were talking about here (if this is still a continuation of the joke I apologize for being so humorless today)

Yes it said six scammers there but it showed a picture of people being helped. What is the scam? How do you look at an honest picture and see hidden intent. There may well have been 100 tourist police around. But where was the scam? If a picture of you helping some one was on the front page of the paper would that make you a scammer?

I know you better than to think you are a Thai basher so can you explain the scam going there and prove it was not an honest attempt at help.

Of course the scammers appear to be helping, doh!!

[northernjohn]

I didn't see any scam going on. I saw people asking for directions and receiving them. I see that often here in Chiang Mai. I myself will often see some one with looking at a map and ask if I can help them. Am I scamming? I thought I was trying to be helpful.

I hope your joking, well think so but one of these, , is always helpful esp. with dry humor

But if not one has to not only look at the pretty pictures but actually read the words.

"There were a total of SIX scammers here trying to extort money from foreign tourists"

As for your helping a lost tourist, which I do too, not really what were talking about here (if this is still a continuation of the joke I apologize for being so humorless today)

Yes it said six scammers there but it showed a picture of people being helped. What is the scam? How do you look at an honest picture and see hidden intent. There may well have been 100 tourist police around. But where was the scam? If a picture of you helping some one was on the front page of the paper would that make you a scammer?

I know you better than to think you are a Thai basher so can you explain the scam going there and prove it was not an honest attempt at help.

Of course the scammers appear to be helping, doh!!

It was a simple question. I asked you to show me not take a chance to bash a Thai.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think I remeber that guy Junglechef....if its the guy who drove around in a humvee that had all kind of police decals all over it. He seemed to have a pretty big entourage.....I heard he had peoblems but never knew anything else.

Here's a news article from back at that time discussing the 2010 arrest that was made.

http://pattayadailynews.com/news-update-pattaya%E2%80%99s-robert-%E2%80%98sifu%E2%80%99-mcinnes-officially-arrested/

Looked, but cannot find any news report on what ever the ultimate result of the case was, as is unfortunately customary here...

Meanwhile, the webpage included the following excerpt of an interview between journalists and the Pattaya police guy at the time.

Q: Can you offer any incite into the Volunteer Police? Complaints regarding their actions and activities appear on a daily basis.

A: We will be strictly informing and educating the volunteer and tourist police that they are strictly assistants to the Royal Thai Police officers and are as such, not allowed to carry any form of firearm or weaponry in public. This will be enforced on both the foreign and Thai volunteers immediately.

Q: Foreign Tourist Police and Volunteers are becoming notorious for their poor service, with illegal dealings being reported on numerous occasions with increasing regularity. Have you any plans to deal with this pressing issue?

A: I acknowledge the issues surrounding the Tourist and Volunteer Police forces and assure you that ever attempt will be made to clear-up the current situation. Records will be checked and maintained on all volunteers whilst the official police force will also be monitored more strictly than is currently being done.

[Mapguy]

Hmmmm!

Looks like anoher topic getting out of control, just like the same topic has done before. Anyway, here is my little bit before the topic is closed down as has, I think, happened before. It gets rather heated usually.

There seem to be some basic cultural discontinuities reflected in this thread.

Thai logic seems to be that the sensible thing is to get cross-cultural help to help with tourists. This is logical but rather innocent because the local gendarmes have not always realized that, very regretably--- in some, NOT ALL cases ---they recruit fools and worse. That is worrisome. Thai officials aren't fools, but they can certainly be unplesantly surprised!

One memory: Several years ago, at the reviewing stand for one of the major holiday parades, I watched a very tall (Must have been 190 tall) blue-uniformed foreign volunteer directing pedestrian traffic. He seemed very out of place to me --- and I thought it sad. He wasn't hurting anyone. He was helping. He wasn't swaggering around. He was simply doing very simple crowd control duty. I felt sorry for him. I thought that he did not belong there. I don't know how he felt, of course, or why he thought it appropriate to be there.

All in all, I do favor some intercultural assistance but a lot of caution --- especially considering the characters who can afford plane fare to Thailand, both those who want to be cops and those who need tobe confronted in the streets, in the bars, or wherever --- but language interpretaton is it, nothing more. I rather doubt that many foreigners who land here have the requisite training in effective police work although common sense is a large part of that and where they got such training isn't really altogether relevant to Thailand. Not at all.

[Konini]

Meanwhile, the webpage included the following excerpt of an interview between journalists and the Pattaya police guy at the time.

Q: Can you offer any incite into the Volunteer Police? Complaints regarding their actions and activities appear on a daily basis.

A: We will be strictly informing and educating the volunteer and tourist police that they are strictly assistants to the Royal Thai Police officers and are as such, not allowed to carry any form of firearm or weaponry in public. This will be enforced on both the foreign and Thai volunteers immediately.

Q: Foreign Tourist Police and Volunteers are becoming notorious for their poor service, with illegal dealings being reported on numerous occasions with increasing regularity. Have you any plans to deal with this pressing issue?

A: I acknowledge the issues surrounding the Tourist and Volunteer Police forces and assure you that ever attempt will be made to clear-up the current situation. Records will be checked and maintained on all volunteers whilst the official police force will also be monitored more strictly than is currently being done.

I was about to give this thread the flick as it's descending below my tolerance level, but then I noticed this. Oh dear. Perhaps they should incite people to volunteer......

I'd say this was written or at the very least proof read, corrected and almost re-written by a native English speaker with very bad grammar rather than someone who speaks it as a 2nd or 3rd language. Proof: The words used and the way in which they were used, along with the type of sloppy mistakes that native English writers tend to make.

[Lizard2010]

Hmmmm!

Looks like anoher topic getting out of control, just like the same topic has done before. Anyway, here is my little bit before the topic is closed down as has, I think, happened before. It gets rather heated usually.

There seem to be some basic cultural discontinuities reflected in this thread.

Thai logic seems to be that the sensible thing is to get cross-cultural help to help with tourists. This is logical but rather innocent because the local gendarmes have not always realized that, very regretably--- in some, NOT ALL cases ---they recruit fools and worse. That is worrisome. Thai officials aren't fools, but they can certainly be unplesantly surprised!

One memory: Several years ago, at the reviewing stand for one of the major holiday parades, I watched a very tall (Must have been 190 tall) blue-uniformed foreign volunteer directing pedestrian traffic. He seemed very out of place to me --- and I thought it sad. He wasn't hurting anyone. He was helping. He wasn't swaggering around. He was simply doing very simple crowd control duty. I felt sorry for him. I thought that he did not belong there. I don't know how he felt, of course, or why he thought it appropriate to be there.

All in all, I do favor some intercultural assistance but a lot of caution --- especially considering the characters who can afford plane fare to Thailand, both those who want to be cops and those who need tobe confronted in the streets, in the bars, or wherever --- but language interpretaton is it, nothing more. I rather doubt that many foreigners who land here have the requisite training in effective police work although common sense is a large part of that and where they got such training isn't really altogether relevant to Thailand. Not at all.

I agree

It has now gone to talk about the Mayor

I think this should be closed

Hopefully a Mod will close it for us

Everyone has had there say

[LivinLOS]

So you are saying that because there are bad human beings all of humanity should get together and control them?

Same principal just on a larger scale. Is it happening?

No I think what we are saying is

1) any system must be 100% legal from the outset. Especially as enforcers of the law.

2) it must have a clear controlling body, with a complaints process and redress and accountability against bad behaviour on the job (punishment)

3) there must be a national chain of command and hierachy, not just some random local pooyais idea of what he wants

4) there MUST be a clear mandate of what rights and responsibilities are involved, we have been told countless times how they have no powers of arrest yet then hear how they 'detained' someone until Thai officers can arrest them.. What is detention if not arrest.

5) they must be trained.. The idea of random Walts out there with handcuffs (easy to break a wrist) and pepper spray with zero training is just mad.

6) there must be ongoing training in all these areas..

If these simple steps cant be managed.. Then its better it didnt exist as a police force / tool. Theres simply too much room for abuse and appealing to totally the wrong kind of person least suited to the role/

I agree with you 100%... right up to your last line.

According to your summation, there shouldn't be any police force, military, religious organizations, etc., etc... anyone with any power or control over the civilian population, because ALL OF THEM suffer from the same problems as the Volunteer Tourist Police.

The newspapers are filled daily with misconduct by members of all organizations. It would be great if we lived in a "Perfect Word," but we don't. So perhaps it's best not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We certainly need to clear up the problems, but it's not going to happen over night nor will it be 100%.

By your alternative, we'd have absolutely no Police.

No they dont..

Thai police are not by definition working illegally.. Hence you dont have the police breaking the law every time they work.

Thai police have a command structure and however weak you can attempt redress

Thai police have training

The things I stated above specifically dont apply to regular police forces and do apply to untrained wannabe cops having a go..

Any system will have rogue elements.. but the system of the TVPs is so fundamentally flawed from the outset it should be scrapped as enforcer of laws.

[LivinLOS]

I would also like to hear it from the horses mouth, as they believe it to be.. under what circumstances are TVPs allowed to detain / arrest / or otherwise use force or pepper spray to control

A) a westerner

a Thai national

On Phuket the TVPs were clearly instructed not to interfere with Thai lawbreakers (touts, animal photo guys, etc) as the Thais wouldn't tolerate it and probably fight back.. So then you have a police force only enforcing laws on one section of society while having to allow another section of society free pass to break them. One sided enforcement such as this is of course not equality or justice.

[Lizard2010]

I would also like to hear it from the horses mouth, as they believe it to be.. under what circumstances are TVPs allowed to detain / arrest / or otherwise use force or pepper spray to control

A) a westerner

a Thai national

On Phuket the TVPs were clearly instructed not to interfere with Thai lawbreakers (touts, animal photo guys, etc) as the Thais wouldn't tolerate it and probably fight back.. So then you have a police force only enforcing laws on one section of society while having to allow another section of society free pass to break them. One sided enforcement such as this is of course not equality or justice.

I believe in Chiang Mai

That the TVP are there to help the westerners to communicate with the Thai Police

Due to the communication with English

But i could be wrong

[hml367]

I would also like to hear it from the horses mouth, as they believe it to be.. under what circumstances are TVPs allowed to detain / arrest / or otherwise use force or pepper spray to control

A) a westerner

a Thai national

On Phuket the TVPs were clearly instructed not to interfere with Thai lawbreakers (touts, animal photo guys, etc) as the Thais wouldn't tolerate it and probably fight back.. So then you have a police force only enforcing laws on one section of society while having to allow another section of society free pass to break them. One sided enforcement such as this is of course not equality or justice.

I believe in Chiang Mai

That the TVP are there to help the westerners to communicate with the Thai Police

Due to the communication with English

But i could be wrong

If these volunteers are communicating to the police, what level are the volunteers' Thai language skills? I have heard many foreigners talk about their Thai language skills, yet their skills were not as good as they thought they were. Add to that whether a volunteer can speak the local dialect, which could also complicate good 2 way communication with the police.

In something as important as communicating to a Thai police officer they should certainly also have local customs knowledge exceeding the normal person I would think.

As for understanding local culture, I have not met many foreigners that truly understand the culture. I am not saying that I do, but it is quite evident most foreigners do not understand the local culture.

[FolkGuitar]

No I think what we are saying is

1) any system must be 100% legal from the outset. Especially as enforcers of the law.

2) it must have a clear controlling body, with a complaints process and redress and accountability against bad behaviour on the job (punishment)

3) there must be a national chain of command and hierachy, not just some random local pooyais idea of what he wants

4) there MUST be a clear mandate of what rights and responsibilities are involved, we have been told countless times how they have no powers of arrest yet then hear how they 'detained' someone until Thai officers can arrest them.. What is detention if not arrest.

5) they must be trained.. The idea of random Walts out there with handcuffs (easy to break a wrist) and pepper spray with zero training is just mad.

6) there must be ongoing training in all these areas..

If these simple steps cant be managed.. Then its better it didnt exist as a police force / tool. Theres simply too much room for abuse and appealing to totally the wrong kind of person least suited to the role/

I agree with you 100%... right up to your last line.

According to your summation, there shouldn't be any police force, military, religious organizations, etc., etc... anyone with any power or control over the civilian population, because ALL OF THEM suffer from the same problems as the Volunteer Tourist Police.

The newspapers are filled daily with misconduct by members of all organizations. It would be great if we lived in a "Perfect Word," but we don't. So perhaps it's best not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We certainly need to clear up the problems, but it's not going to happen over night nor will it be 100%.

By your alternative, we'd have absolutely no Police.

No they dont..

Thai police are not by definition working illegally.. Hence you dont have the police breaking the law every time they work.

Thai police have a command structure and however weak you can attempt redress

Thai police have training

The things I stated above specifically dont apply to regular police forces and do apply to untrained wannabe cops having a go..

Any system will have rogue elements.. but the system of the TVPs is so fundamentally flawed from the outset it should be scrapped as enforcer of laws.

1. If the Volunteers were working illegally, they would have been arrested and deported. That they haven't been means that you are not quite as familiar with Thai Law as you might like. Or... do you suppose that after all these years of having a volunteer program that the Police are unaware of the law?

2. The Volunteers also have a command structure, and generally work along side (not necessarily physically) with an assigned Thai police officer.

3. The Volunteers also go through a training period.

If these volunteers are communicating to the police, what level are the volunteers' Thai language skills?

Considerably better than the average tourist who visits Thailand. And not just Thai language skills either. When you consider that the Thai Tourist police must understand the problems of Germans, French, Chinese, Swedish, Russian, Japanese, Tagalog, and even English speakers, having a volunteer with those language skills reduces the stress level on both sides. The Volunteer may not be fluent in these languages, or even in Thai, but when problems arise, 'some help' is better than 'no help.' It's not the ideal situation, especially when it comes to serious problems, but it beats everyone standing around not being able to get the ideas across.

You (that's the generic you, not you personally,) would likeyour police force to be perfect. You'd like the Volunteers to be perfect.

Is every Thai police officer perfect? Are you perfect. Do you know someone who is? Anyone?

Edited May 25, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[hml367]

FG,

I disagree that "you" (generically and in general) expect any of what you refer to be perfect. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish to even suggest that.

My Thai language skills are better than "the average tourist who visits Thailand", but I would not attempt to communicate between a foreigner and a Thai police person.

Edited May 25, 2015 by hml367

[FolkGuitar]

That's the difference between you and a volunteer who hopes to be of help. Doing 'nothing' accomplishes nothing. Trying to help 'may' just do that. It's certainly better than nothing. Sure, it's possible to exacerbate a situation, but I suggest that this wouldn't happen very often.

Edited May 25, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[hml367]

You assume too much, FG. I did not say I would not try to help. You have no idea I may have helped before or not.

What I said is, "I would not attempt to communicate between a foreigner and a Thai police person." There are other ways to help.

Edited May 25, 2015 by hml367

[hml367]

You assume too much, FG. I did not say I would not try to help. You have no idea I may have helped before or not.

What I said is, "I would not attempt to communicate between a foreigner and a Thai police person." There are other ways to help.

I don't speak Thai but I help. TP always have an English speaker on board, he is the one I communicate with, with a smile to help farangs...

I agree with you on that TransAm. I don't think it is that hard to find a regular police officer that has good English langauge skills. It does take more time, of course.

TransAm, I sent you a PM.

Edited May 25, 2015 by hml367

[DeaconJohn]

The presence of foreign police in any country for whatever reason is guaranteed to provoke resentment among the locals.

It will create more problems than it solves.

[DeaconJohn]

The presence of foreign police in any country for whatever reason is guaranteed to provoke resentment among the locals.

It will create more problems than it solves.

Weeeeeeeeell, my best "case" was helping a Thai lady, her farang husband died unexpectedly and so she was in turmoil. I took it on myself to sort stuff out with the UK regarding his pensions. Yes, I needn't but I did help and had a happy conclusion..

I buried the guy too....

Some times in life helping folk can/does pick one up....

Good that you were able to help.

That sounds more like social work than policing.

It is the conspicuous sight of farangs walking the streets in uniform that would be the potential problem.

[faraday]

My point is this lady knew I was a TPV and asked for assistance, the same thing I do on TVF at times.......Nooooo, I don't wear a uniform though I do have a TPV shirt for my hansum photo shoots..........e

Do you wear those Black Leather Boots too?

Think you'll be even more hansum.....

Edited May 25, 2015 by faraday

[LivinLOS]

I would also like to hear it from the horses mouth, as they believe it to be.. under what circumstances are TVPs allowed to detain / arrest / or otherwise use force or pepper spray to control

A) a westerner

a Thai national

On Phuket the TVPs were clearly instructed not to interfere with Thai lawbreakers (touts, animal photo guys, etc) as the Thais wouldn't tolerate it and probably fight back.. So then you have a police force only enforcing laws on one section of society while having to allow another section of society free pass to break them. One sided enforcement such as this is of course not equality or justice.

I believe in Chiang Mai

That the TVP are there to help the westerners to communicate with the Thai Police

Due to the communication with English

But i could be wrong

Thats doesnt answer the question unless you means 'never'..

Plenty of video evidence and media reports has been posted of TVPs doing exactly that arresting, handcuffing, and even macing people. Despite those actions being illegal and most TVPs claiming they are impossible and not within their rights.

Why do they carry handcuffs and mace ??

[LivinLOS]

1. If the Volunteers were working illegally, they would have been arrested and deported. That they haven't been means that you are not quite as familiar with Thai Law as you might like. Or... do you suppose that after all these years of having a volunteer program that the Police are unaware of the law?

2. The Volunteers also have a command structure, and generally work along side (not necessarily physically) with an assigned Thai police officer.

3. The Volunteers also go through a training period.

1) That the TVPs are not held to the law is precisely the point.. Yes by every measure they are breaking the law.. Simon43 a senior TVP asked and worked for months to get a volunteer work permit simply to set a precedent.. he failed.. He was constantly told dont bother its ok.. No one minds.. Which is typical thai style, those in power can abuse the law as they see fit and the law is only for others. The fact that westerners themselves buy into that claptrap is laughable. Volunteering needs a work permit, by no measure does TVP work fall under any other.

2) There is no national command structure.. theres a bunch of regional structures with no consistency.. Theres immigration volunteer police.. police volunteer police.. Different departments and fiefdoms appear..

3) for handcuffs and mace ??