Thailand Brit murder suspects 'still waiting' on evidence review

[Lite Beer]

Thailand Brit murder suspects 'still waiting' on evidence review

Bangkok, Thaïlande | AFP |

BANGKOK: -- Lawyers for two Myanmar nationals accused of murdering a pair of British holidaymakers in Thailand said Sunday they have "deep concerns" that they will be unable to independently review forensic evidence before the trial starts.


Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun have pleaded not guilty to the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai island of Koh Tao in September.


The pair's defence team have long voiced concerns over the quality of the Thai police investigation, claiming the crime scene was contaminated and that their clients were tortured into confessing.


In April a court on the nearby island of Koh Samui approved the defence's request to independently analyse the evidence against their clients, including DNA and physical evidence at the crime scene such as blood stains and a shirt.


But the lead lawyer on the defence side said his team had been told by the court that they would only find out whether they can access the evidence on July 8 -- the first day of the trial.


"The defence lawyers urgently need both crucial information gained from the re-examination of forensics evidence in this case and also adequate time to consider this information prior to the trial beginning. I am now deeply concerned at this developing situation," Nakhon Chomphuchat said in a statement released Sunday.


"Forensic evidence is central to this case. Without re-examination of this evidence... the ability of the two defendants to defend themselves against the serious crimes they are charged (with) will be seriously impeded," he added.


The court was unreachable over the weekend.


The defendants, both aged 22, confessed to the crimes after their arrest in October but later retracted the admission of guilt, alleging it had been extracted under duress.


Rights groups have accused Thai authorities of using the men as scapegoats.


However both police and prosecutors have defended their investigation and insist that the forensic evidence is solid.


The victims' families have also said they have seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case after British detectives travelled to Thailand to observe the investigation.


Miller and Witheridge's corpses were discovered on a Koh Tao beach on September 15. Police said both had been bludgeoned to death, while Witheridge's body showed signs of sexual abuse.


The accused, who have been in custody on Koh Samui since October, face several charges including murder, rape and robbery.


The murders further damaged Thailand's image as a tourist haven after months of political protests followed by last May's army coup.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2015-05-31

[canopus1969]

BBC are also on to it LINK

[Always18]

International eyes must remain focussed on this Thai version of "justice" despite the all the attempts that have been made to deflect their gaze..................

[seahorse]

In April a court on the nearby island of Koh Samui approved the defence's request to independently analyse the evidence against their clients, including DNA and physical evidence at the crime scene such as blood stains and a shirt.

What blood stains and shirt are being referred to here? Are the prosecution claiming that blood and a shirt belonging to the accused were found at the crime scene? I don't remember that in any previous police report.

[BMF1960]

With all this talk of ridding Thailand of corruption, I can't help but think that this is a missed opportunity to show some transparency. After all, the eyes of the world will be watching this trial, and based on how the case has been conducted so far, those eyes are coloured with skepticism and doubt. An effective, transparent judiciary should attempt to deliver fairness in legal processes and is probably the most powerful weapon against corruption. We can only hope that they get a fair trial.

[EricBerg]

From the BBC link in canopus's comment #1

"Thai police have described their investigation as "perfect", despite failing to control the crime scene and the flurry of conflicting police statements issued in the first weeks of the investigation, our correspondent says."

I remember the pictures of the crime scene with heaps of people around there, police and non-police. The police statement about just having found a victim's cell pnone where it already showed on a police desk from days before. The investigation is only "perfect" as follow-up on the famous statement "Thai person could not do such a thing".

Edited May 31, 2015 by EricBerg

[boomerangutang]

I'm trying to gauge what some of the officialdom-defenders will say about this, when they pipe up. They always justify everything Thai authorities do and say. I can't find any way to justify the judge's latest decision - to further delay justice, but I'm sure RTP defenders will find justifications.

[NongKhaiKid]

BBC are doing an interesting piece pointing out the judge who initially agreed to the review has now changed his mind saying he will not consider it until the trial has actually started which will be too late.

The judge is alao being quoted as saying he sees no reason to question police methods.

Looks like this case is about to blow up again big time.

Edited May 31, 2015 by NongKhaiKid

[dageurreotype]

BBC are also on to it LINK

Well good on the BBC. however, it would have been better if the UK police/authorities hadn't put on their sham investigation concluding the Thais were on the right path, thus legitimising their claims of everything having been conducted in the proper manner. It would have been far better if they'd shown their disdain by not coming here at all. However, diplomatic relations and all that pip pip.

Edited May 31, 2015 by dageurreotype

[NongKhaiKid]

BBC are also on to it LINK

Well good on the BBC. however, it would have been better if the UK police/authorities hadn't put on their sham investigation concluding the Thais were on the right path, thus legitimising their claims of everything having been conducted in the proper manner. It would have been far better if they'd shown their disdain by not coming here at all. However, diplomatic relations and all that pip pip.

I can't recall anything being said since the investigation team left and I don't think their report has been made public and is unlikely to be until after the trial for diplomatic reasons.

I do believe the Foreign Office requested a team be permitted to come here which was initially refused until the PM said yes but observer status only.

The British Ambassador did raise concern early on as he appeared to fawn over the Thais but they used him and made comments on his behalf which I do believe he never refuted.

Edited May 31, 2015 by NongKhaiKid

[boomerangutang]

If this were a soccer match, the ref in April seemed to be open to fairness. Now the ref (same one?), after talking with the RTP bench coaches and their benefactors, decided to push fairness aside until, (maybe), the last 5 minutes of the match. As for the players: there are 11 big strong decorated players on the RTP side, and two little guys on the Burmese side. Go figure.

[partington]

Judges in Thailand are political appointees, as is the much-touted head of the Thai Forensic Institute, who will remain amazingly silent on this issue. There are no juries.

In a multiple rape and murder, happening within a few minutes of each other, the rapists are guilty of the murder. DNA evidence from a rape is not trace evidence but massive, and easy to analyse. The DNA evidence is all there is in this case.

Even if the judge were remarkably unbiased and completely indifferent to the effect of his court decisions in this case on his future career, how can the defense adequately contest DNA evidence with their own experts if they are not given access to it? Their job is to raise reasonable doubt, and they are being prevented from doing it.

It seems that the Thai authorities don't care at all that refusing to let the defence examine the DNA evidence looks to international observers exactly like an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Even if you assume the evidence is watertight, the crime occurred as stated, and the defendants are guilty, this refusal looks odd. It actually points you to the conclusion that the evidence is no good, or why would they fear its examination? This is also suggested by the massive delays in trying to acquire new evidence for months after the original DNA evidence was apparently successfully analysed.

The BBC World TV news has mentioned the judge's incredible revocation of his April decision, pointing out that the original reason given for the seven month delay after the trial started in January was ostensibly to give the defence time to examine the evidence!

However without serious external political pressure this trial seems already over.

[Strangebrew]

What a load when I hear this BS no Thai can do that a little girl named Toon comes to mind I think she was 10 or 11 and a Thai took that innocent child raped and murdered her stuffing her body in a drain pipe, her parent's were a piece of work too busy partying to watch there child left her unattended. Just don't get me started. No Thailand some of us haven't forgot and yes we are watching very closely.

[NongKhaiKid]

Judges in Thailand are political appointees, as is the much-touted head of the Thai Forensic Institute, who will remain amazingly silent on this issue. There are no juries.

In a multiple rape and murder, happening within a few minutes of each other, the rapists are guilty of the murder. DNA evidence from a rape is not trace evidence but massive, and easy to analyse. The DNA evidence is all there is in this case.

Even if the judge were remarkably unbiased and completely indifferent to the effect of his court decisions in this case on his future career, how can the defense adequately contest DNA evidence with their own experts if they are not given access to it? Their job is to raise reasonable doubt, and they are being prevented from doing it.

It seems that the Thai authorities don't care at all that refusing to let the defence examine the DNA evidence looks to international observers exactly like an attempt to pervert the course of justice. Even if you assume the evidence is watertight, the crime occurred as stated, and the defendants are guilty, this refusal looks odd. It actually points you to the conclusion that the evidence is no good, or why would they fear its examination? This is also suggested by the massive delays in trying to acquire new evidence for months after the original DNA evidence was apparently successfully analysed.

The BBC World TV news has mentioned the judge's incredible revocation of his April decision, pointing out that the original reason given for the seven month delay after the trial started in January was ostensibly to give the defence time to examine the evidence!

However without serious external political pressure this trial seems already over.

So much has been said an out this and I'm not going to rehash the story as it's building up towards massive publicity when the 'trial ' starts.

Suffice to say the authorities have well and truly painted themselves into a corner and the international media will be all over this, AGAIN !

[Briggsy]

This is a very familiar tactic in Thai courts when a desired outcome is required by influential people. The judge finds certain evidence admissible, other evidence inadmissible and then is able to claim to have reached the desired verdict based on the evidence presented to the court.

[Thai at Heart]

Thank god I never went to court in Thailand.

[cumgranosalum]

the longer they take the less convincing the whole process is.........

[recycler]

The evidence may need some preparation before it can be reviewed....

[26vinny]

Thai sham never expected anything else, only good thing that will come out of this will be the international outcry, showing how much of a corrupt country Thailand is and its only rated 94th in the world`s most corrupt.the whole world has seen this Circus roll into town, and it has already tarnished the country and affected tourism. i hope it will be the final nail in the coffin for thai tourism, i have property and family, but after this case i will not go back over again, got my morals in the right place, spending my money elsewhere.

[razer]

Seems to me the police and their (business as usual murder case) have damaged the reputation of Thailand.

And now, the suspicious behavior of the prosecutors will further damage the reputation of Thailand.

Edited May 31, 2015 by razer

[technologybytes]

I think that this case has so much media attention that it'll be difficult now for the accused to be denied a fair trial.

[SunsetT]

If this were a soccer match, the ref in April seemed to be open to fairness. Now the ref (same one?), after talking with the RTP bench coaches and their benefactors, decided to push fairness aside until, (maybe), the last 5 minutes of the match. As for the players: there are 11 big strong decorated players on the RTP side, and two little guys on the Burmese side. Go figure.

......It sounds like FIFA have become involved............... .

[berybert]

Well the RTP lovers where all over us when it was said the defense could view the evidence. Now they cant, so that was just a smoke screen to buy them some time before the trial started.

Now we need to know is why wouldn't they let the defense view the evidence against them ? Can only be because it would prove not guilty.

I really see no other reason.

[Tchooptip]

If this were a soccer match, the ref in April seemed to be open to fairness. Now the ref (same one?), after talking with the RTP bench coaches and their benefactors, decided to push fairness aside until, (maybe), the last 5 minutes of the match. As for the players: there are 11 big strong decorated players on the RTP side, and two little guys on the Burmese side. Go figure.

......It sounds like FIFA have become involved............... .

Not good omen at the present time, seems to be corrupted as well

[aslimversgwm]

This is a most disturbing turn of events. Someone, somewhere high up in the Thai food chain is telling the judge what to do.

This appears to have little or nothing to do with conducting a fair trial, or allowing a proper defence for these innocent boys - and yes they are innocent until proved guilty, even in Thailand, but with no proper chance to re-examine the evidence, particularly the DNA evidence, prior to the trial's start, what chance have the defence of properly defending them?

[joebrown]

If you're wondering about the reason why the trial judge has decided to delay the release of forensic evidence, look no further than the fact that the B2 defence team has engaged the help of Mike Moulden a UK forensics expert. Mike's already here in LOS and no doubt the prosecution werer shi33ing themselves enough to persuade the judge to make life as difficult as possible for the defence to unravel the supposedly 'perfect' investigation.

Edited May 31, 2015 by joebrown

[Happy Grumpy]

However both police and prosecutors have defended their investigation and insist that the forensic evidence is solid.

Let's not forget that the Prime Minister of Thailand also declared that they are guilty because of the DNA evidence against them.

If that isn't joke enough, it seems that the prime minister can independently review the forensic evidence against them, and then publicly declare their guilt before they even go to trial, but the defense team cannot review it.

Sickening.

Anyone who has genuine faith in this system needs their head read.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[Happy Grumpy]

the fact that the B2 defence team has engaged the help of Mike Moulden a UK forensics expert. Mike's already here in LOS

Let's hope he has good health and life insurance.

The Thai police and army (PM) don't like their perfect plans being meddled with. Think the Blue Diamond affair. 3 or 4 Saudi diplomats and business men murdered in Bangkok.

Imagine if this guy got his hands on the actual forensic evidence from the crime, and publicly declared in UK that there is no forensic link whatsoever to the B2..... now that's a loss of face these animals Buddhists just couldn't risk.

[slipperylobster]

BBC are doing an interesting piece pointing out the judge who initially agreed to the review has now changed his mind saying he will not consider it until the trial has actually started which will be too late.

The judge is alao being quoted as saying he sees no reason to question police methods.

Looks like this case is about to blow up again big time.

Nice if Mr Prayuth would take a personal interest in this trial..

[Monkeyrobot]

Sound more and more like my cousin Vinny.