I Called Immigration And Got Some Answers!

[my benny rai]

I think one of the reasons this topic has ignited such intense feelings is change does not come easily, especially when it hits so close to home. The more I think about it, the more I am concerned for the aliens here who have a family or are here to retire but do not have enough money to get a Non Immigrant Visa, O and O-A respectively. If they are able to stay here through the system that PREM-R describes above, it will be more costly in the long run for them to have to fly out at least twice per year.

And then there is the question if schools will be able to provide work permits to enable workers to apply for a Non Immigrant B.

But, as we have said, let's not worry until we get more information.

[chinthai]

>>also ... are they now saying that so long as i have a tourist visa then its possible i will be able to renew it ?

no fear please.....

I spoke with different Immigration officers - at time, the new rules will be made only for VOA Visas.

So if you go out and made a tourist/NON-0 Visa, so you can do this any time and come back too.

Visa Runs for Tourist Visas are not the problem.

Please think: this is valid only for at time - tomorrow all immigration chiefs will held a meeting for this, so I think Sunbelt Asia can give us the newest information on 16th of September.

Edited September 14, 2006 by chinthai

[PREM-R]

I think one of the reasons this topic has ignited such intense feelings is change does not come easily, especially when it hits so close to home. The more I think about it, the more I am concerned for the aliens here who have a family or are here to retire but do not have enough money to get a Non Immigrant Visa, O and O-A respectively. If they are able to stay here through the system that PREM-R describes above, it will be more costly in the long run for them to have to fly out at least twice per year.

And then there is the question if schools will be able to provide work permits to enable workers to apply for a Non Immigrant B.

But, as we have said, let's not worry until we get more information.

The system I suggest is dependant on October 1st being "a clean sheet" and is also to some extent only suitable for people who can easily access a land border crossing. If it becomes necessary to fly to get the tourist visa there is alway air asia (partly owned by Mr Taksin) with the low price flights to many countries here in Asia.

[jackr]

I think one of the reasons this topic has ignited such intense feelings is change does not come easily, especially when it hits so close to home. The more I think about it, the more I am concerned for the aliens here who have a family or are here to retire but do not have enough money to get a Non Immigrant Visa, O and O-A respectively. If they are able to stay here through the system that PREM-R describes above, it will be more costly in the long run for them to have to fly out at least twice per year.

And then there is the question if schools will be able to provide work permits to enable workers to apply for a Non Immigrant B.

But, as we have said, let's not worry until we get more information.

The system I suggest is dependant on October 1st being "a clean sheet" and is also to some extent only suitable for people who can easily access a land border crossing. If it becomes necessary to fly to get the tourist visa there is alway air asia (partly owned by Mr Taksin) with the low price flights to many countries here in Asia.

Thought he flogged his part of that to Singapore along with AIS?

[PREM-R]

I think one of the reasons this topic has ignited such intense feelings is change does not come easily, especially when it hits so close to home. The more I think about it, the more I am concerned for the aliens here who have a family or are here to retire but do not have enough money to get a Non Immigrant Visa, O and O-A respectively. If they are able to stay here through the system that PREM-R describes above, it will be more costly in the long run for them to have to fly out at least twice per year.

And then there is the question if schools will be able to provide work permits to enable workers to apply for a Non Immigrant B.

But, as we have said, let's not worry until we get more information.

The system I suggest is dependant on October 1st being "a clean sheet" and is also to some extent only suitable for people who can easily access a land border crossing. If it becomes necessary to fly to get the tourist visa there is alway air asia (partly owned by Mr Taksin) with the low price flights to many countries here in Asia.

Thought he flogged his part of that to Singapore along with AIS?

But would not that be illegal? "The Foreigner" can only own 49% of a company in Thailand, given that the other partner is, I think, Malasian then you have a Thai company that is owned 100% by "The Foreigner" and that is not allowed in Thailand, is it?

[drummer]

So let's please stop worrying until we get more information from immigration itself sometime early next week or until somone reports back that they have read an officially posted notice at the border.

My thoughts are also along these lines. This is obviously political pandering. Strictly economically speaking, it is a disaster of a policy. But it sounds great to a lot of people.

But still - there is a fair chance that this wil be implemented as is. Again, there is a fair chance that some version of this will be implemented in a way that stems from politics more than economics or common sense. Even if this does not get implemented at all, the specter of an unreliable system is increasingly being raised about Thailand. In other words, if not today then maybe tomorrow.

This kind of event has happened before in many places - sometimes to FAR greater extremes than Thailand's new immigration laws . I would not be overly surprised if Thailand follows the same lines - just disappointed.

As I said before - it is possible to stay- I could do at least 3 different options. However, It is knowing why the laws are on the books, and the spector of unreliability that gets me.

[BigSnake]

Round and round we go, I for one is getting DIZZY!! all the above

[Lenn2005]

hi,

am wondering how this is going to affect getting the triple entry tourist visa in Penang?

will be going there next Wednesday to try and get one of these. already have two one month stamps in my passport from a Cambodian border.

thanks

[Soju]

I see your point, Soju, but only if the government puts a limit on the number of times one can apply for a Tourist Visa. If that is the case, which I hope it will not be, then that will bar long term tourists, frequent tourists, and residents who have a family but cannot qualify for any other visa. But if no limitations are placed on the number of times one can get a Tourist Visa, such people you have mentioned in your post will only have to plan ahead to obtain a proper visa but only after they have used up their three freebie 30 day stamps.

What you don't realize is that the planning ahead part is difficult, if not impossible for a lot of us. I often go to Thailand with little or no notice. Normally my work schedule doesn't allow me to plan ahead except around certain key holidays. I don't purchase my ticket on 80% of my trips until at most just a few days before I leave. It's impossible for me to get a tourist visa under those conditions as one of the requirements for a Thai tourist visa is that you have a purchased ticket already. Furthermore, having to send in my passport for a few days every month is unacceptable. I often have to travel on business at a moment's notice. If there's a last minute business meeting in another country and I tell my boss, "sorry, I don't have my passport now", it will create a big problem.

Another group of people for which getting a visa might be impossible are the oil rig workers. I don't know details of their situation other than what I read about in these threads, but at least one seems to say that they need their passport with them and cannot send it to another country to get a visa.

A third group for which visas are impossible are travellers who don't plan ahead but just make decisions about their travel as it happens. So many travellers may have a certain vacation planned out, but once they get to Thailand and meet up with other travellers, suddenly they decide to take a few side trips to Laos, Singapore, Cambodia, etc. and quickly find that they either need to put their vacation on hold while they make a sidetrip to a Thai consulate and wait for their visa, or cancel returning to Thailand.

Several countries have limits on the total time you can spend in their country with or without a tourist visa, but to my knowledge Thailand is the only one who is trying to limit it to just 3 trips in 180 days. That is a maximum of only 6 trips per year. That is the big problem for many of us. Limit it to 90 days out of 180 days is absolutely no problem for me. Or give me a one-year multiple entry tourist visa would also be acceptable, though more of a hassle. However this option would obviously be used by the visa runners and so would defeat the purpose of the new regulation on 30 day stamps. Another option would be to allow us to get a tourist visa on arrival, even if we have to pay for it, where they scrutinize our previous travels to verify that we don't fit the model of the illegal worker. I'd rather not have the hassle of filling out a form, waiting extra time, and paying extra money just to enter Thailand each time, but would do it if I didn't have any other alternative. I do that now whenver visiting Laos or Cambodia. I think the added expense and hassle would discourage some legitimate travellers, but would certainly be preferable to barring us completely.

[JimGant]

3. She said that I could get a 30 day stamp at the border and I could get it changed into a Non-Immigrant Visa in Bangkok if there were at least 21 days left on it (and I had all the proper paperwork). So no need to fly to Penang or home for those of us who can get the required documents.

(from the first post in this thread)

Not really wanting to stir up more dust -- but I'm surprised this statement hasn't been challenged (?). However, it wouldn't surprise me if the nice lady at Immigration wasn't confused, since it seems possible Immigration gets "Visa on Arrival" confused with the '30-day no-visa-required stamp' (officially, "tourist visa exemption") that the US, Britain, and 39 other countries are allowed. Maybe there's something mistranslated when Thai regulations are translated into English..........

Anyway, the point is, 30-day stamps have *never* qualified to be upgraded to real visas within Thailand itself. Only recently, tourist visas with "21 days left, plus proper paperwork" could be upgraded in-county to Non Immigation O visas for the purpose of obtaining a retirement extension stamp.

But, who knows. Maybe there's movement afoot to allow obtaining proper visas from 30-day stamps -- as long as you don't have an earring in your nose, of course.

[schmitonian]

I see your point, Soju, but only if the government puts a limit on the number of times one can apply for a Tourist Visa. If that is the case, which I hope it will not be, then that will bar long term tourists, frequent tourists, and residents who have a family but cannot qualify for any other visa. But if no limitations are placed on the number of times one can get a Tourist Visa, such people you have mentioned in your post will only have to plan ahead to obtain a proper visa but only after they have used up their three freebie 30 day stamps.

What you don't realize is that the planning ahead part is difficult, if not impossible for a lot of us. I often go to Thailand with little or no notice. Normally my work schedule doesn't allow me to plan ahead except around certain key holidays. I don't purchase my ticket on 80% of my trips until at most just a few days before I leave. It's impossible for me to get a tourist visa under those conditions as one of the requirements for a Thai tourist visa is that you have a purchased ticket already. Furthermore, having to send in my passport for a few days every month is unacceptable. I often have to travel on business at a moment's notice. If there's a last minute business meeting in another country and I tell my boss, "sorry, I don't have my passport now", it will create a big problem.

Another group of people for which getting a visa might be impossible are the oil rig workers. I don't know details of their situation other than what I read about in these threads, but at least one seems to say that they need their passport with them and cannot send it to another country to get a visa.

A third group for which visas are impossible are travellers who don't plan ahead but just make decisions about their travel as it happens. So many travellers may have a certain vacation planned out, but once they get to Thailand and meet up with other travellers, suddenly they decide to take a few side trips to Laos, Singapore, Cambodia, etc. and quickly find that they either need to put their vacation on hold while they make a sidetrip to a Thai consulate and wait for their visa, or cancel returning to Thailand.

Several countries have limits on the total time you can spend in their country with or without a tourist visa, but to my knowledge Thailand is the only one who is trying to limit it to just 3 trips in 180 days. That is a maximum of only 6 trips per year. That is the big problem for many of us. Limit it to 90 days out of 180 days is absolutely no problem for me. Or give me a one-year multiple entry tourist visa would also be acceptable, though more of a hassle. However this option would obviously be used by the visa runners and so would defeat the purpose of the new regulation on 30 day stamps. Another option would be to allow us to get a tourist visa on arrival, even if we have to pay for it, where they scrutinize our previous travels to verify that we don't fit the model of the illegal worker. I'd rather not have the hassle of filling out a form, waiting extra time, and paying extra money just to enter Thailand each time, but would do it if I didn't have any other alternative. I do that now whenver visiting Laos or Cambodia. I think the added expense and hassle would discourage some legitimate travellers, but would certainly be preferable to barring us completely.

I agree with Soju. Much of the concern is for expat workers who visit Thailand on a regular basis, either for business, pleasure or family reasons. We work overseas, and if there is an opportunity to spend a weekend in Thailand, or if we have a longer stay planned for which we wish to do some side trips to Singapore, Laos, Cambodia or similar, we enjoy the convenience Thailand offers. We usually do not have great lengths of time to plan these trips and it is nice to know we can hop on a plane, touch down in Thailand and see the family or whatever, no hassles. If worst comes to worst, we will try and abide by the rules as best as possible, but it does become a little inconvenient and will require more planning on our behalf.

The comments by others in similar situations such as total time versus number of stamps both have their pros and cons. Soju's comment that if we also had the chance to fill out a form and present our individual cases to the immigration at the border while inconvenient has merit, so long as the officer has a brain and a little compassion. For those in Nong Khai doing the shopping, they could have a short-term (1-day, THB200), medium-term (3-day, THB500) and longer-term (15-day, THB1000) VOA form to be filled out for those who have exceeded their freeby quota.

I recently had to renew my passport during the Israel-Lebanon conflict. Being based in the Middle East, reading all the anti-Western sentiment and not having the passport handy if things did escalate was worrying. And not having my passport for 3 weeks earlier in the year while my residency permits were organised was not a pleasant feeling. Hence I do not like handing over my passport unless I know it will be promptly returned. I will hand over my passport to Thai Embassy and get the visas if required, it is just inconvenient. Others are not so lucky like myself.

The *possible* news that 1-Oct is a clean slate is promising. Told the Thai missus I should now be able to come and help with her move and she sounded so much happier. Said her family would also be happier. Still waiting with bated breath for the official ruling, but I think I'll probably take the risk of heading to BKK without any visa (only return tickets for the next day) and see what happens...

[zeusbheld]

uncertain information is MUCH more useful than NO information.

So, you are telling me that you really enjoy listening to Sunbelt's uncertain information. Come on, you must be bored, get a real life.

and what, do tell, is *your* definition of a 'real life'... one like yours?

wherein you DON'T enjoy listening to sunbelt's but you sit here and read it anyway?

jeez seems like you'd just realize your true inclination, seek out and s&m club and find a proper dominus/domina to punish you up properly.

PS didnt say i enjoyed it as such, just that maybes can be useful, 'situational awareness' is not a bad thing...

[george]

Here is the full regulation from Thai Immigration,

valid from Oct 1, 2006:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83253

[Kwai Yai]

This is the most useful and sensible post on this subject.

I have never read so much uneducated, ill-informed garbage as in the first six pages posted on this subject. So, us visa-runners are all no good criminals eh! We should wake up, smell the coffee and get a legal visa. Yeah, right.

I have been teaching English here for over one year, making monthly visa runs after my six monthly expired. Why don’t I just go legal and get a Non-imm. B? Because the lazy Thais can’t be “assed” to provide me with the correct documents. I require a letter from my school director and a letter from the director of education in my district. The new laws have caused a wave of panic in the schools here because the Thais now realise they have got to provide their teachers with the correct docs. - or loose them, and they have to do it pronto. Oh! horror, the directors have to write letters when they could be watching TV in their offices or enjoying long boozy lunches.

I am sure that if I knew who was the director of education for my district I could pop round to his house with a bottle of Black Label and an envelope with a thousand baht and I might get my documents next week.

Nobody has spotted the main point, in a country which has had no elected government or working parliament since April, exactly who changed the Laws of The Kingdom of Thailand and how? Answers on a 1000 baht note to the Khao Lak Rehabilitation Center for tsunami victims, which is closing through lack of funds.

The ONLY official statement from the head of immigration, Gen. Suwat, was published in Forbes magazine. There has been no official announcement in the Thai press, though The Bangkok Post featured the story. No Thais at my school knew about the new rules until I made them aware. Incidentally, Gen Suwat said that we (filthy illegal foreigners) are working in bars in Pattya. Err, come to Thailand and work in a bar for 100B a day, not me, dear General.

[astral]

I called immigration in Bangkok and talked to a very helpful and pleasant officer who spoke English. She stated a few things.................

Did you get her name so you can quote her when you get turned back??

Sorry this nice girl does not speak for the Head of Immigration.

You have only to look at the variations of interpretation from one Immigration office to another to see this.