45-50HP?

[WingNut]

Are there any bikes presently being manufactured in Thailand, besides the Honda CBR500, that have between 45-50HP?

[TheRoadWarrior]

R3 is about 43hp and almost 60lbs lighter

[WingNut]

Wow, nice. That's a lot of power for a 300cc sized bike. That's nearly double the HP of the CBR300 as well. What does that bike cost in Thailand?

[mark131v]

The R3 costs about 185,000 baht, I have one as well as a CB500X and it is a really good fun little bike, probably hasn't quite got the top end of the 500 and you sometimes miss the torque and have to work the gears a bit more but it is good fun and there really aint a lot in it, it is more than enough for the Thai roads and also strangely comfortable which I was not expecting

It has some nice bells and whistles with the gear change light and gear indicator. When I got it I was a little nervous with the Michelin Street Pilots that it comes with as I had seen a couple of reviews that said they could be better but actually they are fine and I have not had any dodgy moments unlike with the Road Killers on the old Ninja 250

I really like it as if I go out with the Missus unlike when she used the Ninja 250 now she has the same safety with the ABS as me and absolutely no problem keeping up or overtaking traffic, like I say very different to the Honda 500's but in a good way!

edited to say in my experience while the bike is great the service from Honda Big Wing is in a completely different class and the place where I bought mine in Pattaya where rubbish, I am not expecting any issues but I would not be filled with confidence after watching how long it took them to do the service and fit a tail tidy, time will tell but I don't have any regrets at all after 1500k

Edited June 14, 2015 by mark131v

[Dutchbike]

Not being manufactured in Thailand but in India, does that count?....KTM RC 390 ( 44 HP / 33kW)

edit: and the Duke 390

Edited June 14, 2015 by Dutchbike

[TheRoadWarrior]

Not being manufactured in Thailand but in India, does that count?....KTM RC 390 ( 44 HP / 33kW)

edit: and the Duke 390

yeah RC390 is gorgeous, and even lighter than the R3.... but also over 50% more expensive.... 300k baht for a baby bike!

if it was 200k, i would be all over it.... love the style

[TheRoadWarrior]

The R3 costs about 185,000 baht, I have one as well as a CB500X and it is a really good fun little bike, probably hasn't quite got the top end of the 500 and you sometimes miss the torque and have to work the gears a bit more but it is good fun and there really aint a lot in it, it is more than enough for the Thai roads and also strangely comfortable which I was not expecting

It has some nice bells and whistles with the gear change light and gear indicator. When I got it I was a little nervous with the Michelin Street Pilots that it comes with as I had seen a couple of reviews that said they could be better but actually they are fine and I have not had any dodgy moments unlike with the Road Killers on the old Ninja 250

I really like it as if I go out with the Missus unlike when she used the Ninja 250 now she has the same safety with the ABS as me and absolutely no problem keeping up or overtaking traffic, like I say very different to the Honda 500's but in a good way!

edited to say in my experience while the bike is great the service from Honda Big Wing is in a completely different class and the place where I bought mine in Pattaya where rubbish, I am not expecting any issues but I would not be filled with confidence after watching how long it took them to do the service and fit a tail tidy, time will tell but I don't have any regrets at all after 1500k

where did you purchase your R3 in pattaya?

im strongly considering one soon... but havent gone to test ride one yet

[mark131v]

Directly across the traffic lights from Big C South Pattaya ??Wittaya Marine or something like that, they also sell the big KTM's and Yamaha Super Teneres and used to have Triumph's in the other building behind the Yamaha showroom if you have a big wedge burning a hole in your pocket....

edit ref the test ride for me it was literally a couple of spins up and down the yard and not an ideal way to see what a bike can do, that said I had made up my mind to get it so did not really push for more, if you did and they thought you where serious I reckon they would let you take it onto Sukumvit

Edited June 14, 2015 by mark131v

[WingNut]

Many thanks for all the input. I was wanting made in Thailand to try and keep cost down. I was actually hoping that there might be an option in the 150,000 Baht range. But I guess not. As you get closer to the 200,000 Baht price range I feel it might be better to spend a bit more for a bigger bike instead. I really like the idea of the R3 though. It sounds like a great bike in many ways. Light weight, relatively small, and good horse power. I'm surprised torque on it isn't so great though. Would perhaps a front sprocket change help?

Edited June 14, 2015 by WingNut

[mark131v]

Real world riding torque is good I guess but for me I flog my bikes and find I need to regrip the throttle to open it all the way which I do not have to do on the 500. I would still buy the R3 again as it is different ride to the 500 and for me a bit more involving, the power and acceleration are good and it is really suprising what a small bike with 320cc can do, thinking about it the missus on the R3 could probably leave me on the CBX if she really wanted to because of the weight difference and I reckon the R3 is a good alternative to the CBR500, I am not technical with the sprocket changes but there are quite a few reviews out now and most seem to be fairly positive

edited to say that actually the R3 is made in Indonesia but the quality and fit and finish are all good as is the price

Edited June 14, 2015 by mark131v

[WingNut]

Thanks. What was your issue with the 250 Ninja that you didn't like? Road killers? Are you referring to the stock tires? Sorry, didn't quite follow all that.

[WingNut]

Also, the R3 seems to have about double the HP as the CBR250 and the Ninja 250. Does the R3 feel like it has twice the power as those two other bikes when your riding it I wonder.

[wow64]

R3 overpriced here as its made in Indo.... Should only be a little more expensive then the cbr300r not 52,000b more.

For similar money a cbr500r can be had... Even cheaper a 2nd hand one... What dont u like about the 500?

Sent from my c64

Edited June 14, 2015 by wow64

[WingNut]

I don't dislike the CBR500, but I assumed it would be at least 200K. Was trying to find something in the 150K sweet spot. Maybe a used 500CBR could be had at around 150K.

[TheRoadWarrior]

R3 overpriced here as its made in Indo.... Should only be a little more expensive then the cbr300r not 52,000b more.

For similar money a cbr500r can be had... Even cheaper a 2nd hand one... What dont u like about the 500?

Sent from my c64

cbr500r is incredibly heavy for its class, and underpowered for that much weight IMO

if im going to get a bike that heavy, might as well go up to the cbr650f and get more power.

also, the headlight styling is rather boring... should have made it closer to the cbr1000rr headlights

[TheRoadWarrior]

I don't dislike the CBR500, but I assumed it would be at least 200K. Was trying to find something in the 150K sweet spot. Maybe a used 500CBR could be had at around 150K.

yeah, theres some great deals out there on used ones... i think lots of buyers upgraded to cbr650f

[wow64]

I don't dislike the CBR500, but I assumed it would be at least 200K. Was trying to find something in the 150K sweet spot. Maybe a used 500CBR could be had at around 150K.

I was actually going to get a cbr500r as a 2nd bike to commute... Got the cbr300r instead as there were not many used examples back then.. The price of a 300r 133000b new or around 100,000b used.. Maybe get one of those if its a second bike...you have a 650 if I remember. IMO the R3 is good.. But just not worth the money with the tax imposed on it.

Sent from my c64

[mark131v]

I don't understand where people are coming from ref the money and tax thing, it is pretty much the same price as the Ninja 300 which is I think made in Thailand and the only other twin in the small market, for a slightly more powerful and modern bike that's a bit lighter and in my opinion better looking it is a good price, would be nice if it was the same price as the Honda and Kawasaki singles but unless they decide to commit financial hari kari that aint never gonna happen

True you can pick up a used bike for a really good price and that is always an option as there are some bargains out there but for me this is a different bike and a different proposition entirely but others probably think differently and that is good too

Ref the Honda 500's I really like them and I have 23,000k on my CBX and no plans to sell but the R3 is a different ride altogether and it is very nice having the option to ride both as they are completely different, if I could only choose one I would stick with the CBX mainly due to the upright riding position and the fact I have a box on it and when I ride the R3 to the shops the lack of the box is a naus, dare say I could fit one but it would look ridiculous so I wont

[mark131v]

Thanks. What was your issue with the 250 Ninja that you didn't like? Road killers? Are you referring to the stock tires? Sorry, didn't quite follow all that.

I still like the Ninja 250 it is a nice ride but the R3 is in a different class altogether......

It feels much more powerful all over the rev range and I have tried to follow my wife when she is on the on the R3 (who is not the fastest rider) and I simply cannot keep up.

If we go for a ride the Ninja cannot keep up with the CBX and I find it frustrating having to keep slowing down plus overtaking on the Ninja takes a lot more planning than the R3 or CBX who seem to be pretty much the same in that respect

It's more modern with a really good instrument panel with all the useful stuff and gear indicator and upshift light not to forget a fuel gauge! It has good breaks with ABS as standard and both the rider and pillion seat are way more comfortable with the pillion being much higher and getting a better view of the road

The riding position is also much more comfortable for me as it is more upright with less pressure on the wrists but again that could be a personal thing as I am now more used to the upright position on the CBX

I never liked the IRC roadwinners that where standard on the Ninja and quickly changed them for Pirelli Sport Demons which transformed the bike, we got the Ninja second hand so that could be why the tires where so hard and slippy and they might have been different when new however the Michelins on the R3 are really good and give pretty good feedback but who knows maybe they will harden as time passes too and we will end up with Pirellis on there too, time will tell but as I said yesterday I like the R3 and have no regrets and hopefully it will stay that way

Edited June 15, 2015 by mark131v

[papa al]

My German friend who has ridden since kid, and has at least 4 CBRs in household, recently bought the new 300-something Bennelli and thinks it is tops.

Under 150,000, I think so, not sure.

Pattaya.

[mark131v]

I had a look at the new Bennelis and the 300 and 600 both look nice, I test rode the 600 and it is a really nice bike to ride and sounds awesome but the lack of ABS on both and uncertainty of servicing was the killer for me, I really hope they do well as more choice can only be a good thing but it will get the China bike haters frothing at the mouth though...

[WingNut]

Yes, I do have a CBR650 already and am very happy with it. I was thinking of perhaps getting rid of my CBR250 one day for something slightly bigger with a bit more power.

I must admit, when the CBR650 first came out I had thought that many of the owners that bought the CBR500 previous to the CBR650 being announced might be unhappy now knowing that for just a bit more money that there is now an option with twice the HP. I assumed that many would be selling the CBR500, biting the bullet on the loss, and moving over to the CBR650. And when the CBR500 first came out I also felt it was a very underpowered bike for its size and weight class and a bit pricey for what it offered and that is why I was never interested to buy one in the first place back then.

But now that I have a 650 I am thinking about the 500 in a different way as a smaller, second bike. But rethinking the fact that it is still heavy and underpowered for its weight class is turning me off to it again, even if I could pick one up used with low mileage for around 150,000 Baht now.

The R3 really seems like the best all around choice because of its size and weight. Just wish it had a little more torque and power and was a bit less money. It will end up costing 190,000 Baht out the door, and by the time you do an exhaust change on it you have well over 200,000 Baht into it.

@Mark131v - Yes, those IRC tires are awful. They are like ridding on slippery rocks. I did a long post about them a while back that you are welcome to read about replacing my IRC tires on my CBR250 if you feel like reading it. The result was a bought a pair of cheap locally made tires which copy the Pirelli tread design and are very soft and grippy. I really like them, have been using them for a while, no slips and slides, and they were not expensive. But the Michelin Pilot Street tires are a good choice too I think, but a friend of mine has them on his bike and complains they aren't that grippy though. The thread is here on the tires: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/799017-stock-irc-tires-for-cbr250r/

[Dutchbike]

What happen to bikes like the: CBR250RR's ZXR 250's ( 4 inlines!) the VFR400's RVF400's V4's and the CBR400RR and others ( 4 inline)And then you also had the 250 2 strokes.

That 45/50Hp class in those days was awesome, now all there is are "boring" singles and twins.

[WingNut]

What happen to bikes like the: CBR250RR's ZXR 250's ( 4 inlines!) the VFR400's RVF400's V4's and the CBR400RR and others ( 4 inline)And then you also had the 250 2 strokes.

That 45/50Hp class in those days was awesome, now all there is are "boring" singles and twins.

Most likely they want to only put that much power into bigger bikes now so they can sell us bigger bikes and charge us more money to get that power. Most things in this world are driven by maximizing profits now. It's no longer a world of real value for money anymore. [emoji30]

[papa al]

What happen to bikes like the: CBR250RR's ZXR 250's ( 4 inlines!) the VFR400's RVF400's V4's and the CBR400RR and others ( 4 inline)And then you also had the 250 2 strokes.

That 45/50Hp class in those days was awesome, now all there is are "boring" singles and twins.

Most likely they want to only put that much power into bigger bikes now so they can sell us bigger bikes and charge us more money to get that power. Most things in this world are driven by maximizing profits now. It's no longer a world of real value for money anymore. [emoji30]

I think one can earn a PhD. in squeezing the last penny out of the consumer.

Get hired quickly.

[ttakata]

This may be the last great small bike.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/aprilia/rs250/1994/

I think it cost around the same as a CBR600 back then so not a good primary value bike.

It was for a collector or a true aficianado.

[Dutchbike]

That Aprilia is a great bike (I love the 2 strokes)

One of my favorites 4 strokes of that era is the CBR250RR MC 22

45 HP with a rev limiter @ 19.000 rpm,sounds a bit like a formula 1 car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cwyksKx6txo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IXt7fQsDsk8

And what Honda gives us now... CBR 250( 300)

[WingNut]

Amazing [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

[WingNut]

I just read a wiki on the CBR250RR. What an amazing bike that was for its time. What's more amazing is we don't have anything like that today as you said, despite even all the advances in bike technology made over the last 20+ years.

The new R3 is the only thing I think that comes even close to having that kind of HP on a Japanese made bike in that size class, but alas it still doesn't have the same kind of torque or acceleration that this CBR did. I think manufacturers are more concerned about fuel efficiency too now on small bikes, so I would be surprised if we ever see a 4 cylinder bike made again in a Japanese bike factory in that size class.

It's also very apparent, that when they came out with the new CBR250R in 2011, that they started going backwards instead of forwards with a single cylinder engine and only 23HP. Perhaps the new CBR 250 and 300 now has a slightly better suspension, and might be more comfortable for longer distance riding, but that's about it I think. No double headlight, no double front disc brake, etc.

Frankly, to think that Honda recently got rid of making the 2011 model CBR250 and replaced it with a CBR300 that only has a few more horsepower seems pointless. Again, probably for marketing purposes to get more people interested in them if they have a 300cc engine instead of just a 250cc. But to make a 300cc bike with under 30HP is pretty disappointing, considering they are charging almost 140,000 Baht for them.

Now that the competition is getting stronger in that size class though maybe Honda will eventually step up with a more exciting bike in the 250-300cc range, but I'm not going to hold my breath. The best case would be if they scrapped the CBR500 all together and brought back a 4 cylinder 400cc sport touring model of some sort. Or even a 400cc 4 cylinder with a street fighter type design like the Kawasaki Z series.

By the way, I'll bet the Kawasaki Z300 doesn't pull very hard either in that size class? It is a nice looking bike though.

Edited June 15, 2015 by WingNut

[Dutchbike]

A reason for all these interesting bikes, is (or was) the Japanese law, bigger bikes ( 400cc and up) are much more expensive. ( with taxes etc)

Maybe the laws have changed in Japan and that's the reason Manaufactures don't make these kinda bikes anymore.

The Big 4 all had a 250 inline: Honda MC22 CBR 250RR, Kawasaki ZXR250, Yamaha FZR 250 and Suzuki GSX-R250 all with more or less same engine specs 40/45 hp and amzing rev ranges up to 20.000 rpm A bit later in the nineties the Big 4 also had a line-up of naked 250 4 inlines Suzki Bandit 250, Honda Hornet, Yamaha Zeal to name a few.

The only remaining "small" 4 inline that I know off still being produced is the CB 400 Super Four ( 52 HP @10.500 rpm) but quite a bulky and heavy bike 194/203kg)