Travellers From Thailand To Laos

[unforgiven]

Lannarebirth - Kerry Danes is referring to the " secret police " not the

uniform guys you see on the street so it's a different situation altogether. Don't forget

being a communist country -whilst it's not perhaps as visible in Laos as it is

in say North Korea or Cuba- the government officials will not allow

the citizens to leave the country. There is therefore a " behind the scenes "

system to monitor this - i.e. the secret police

Terry57 - I will try to answer your questions :-

# 1 did the danes have there diamond business 100 % legal and did they comply with every local law and regulation without exception ?

Kerry Danes was the manager of Jardine Securicor Laos -who in turn were employed by

a gem company to provide security services. That gem company had a joint venture agreement

with the Laos government which indeed went sour. But surely the security company cannot

all should not be held liable -and that is what happened. I have only read a book so I'm not

for one instance saying I believe 100 percent -they're always two sides to every story

but the points I have tried to make we should be of concern to travelers to Laos are :-

1. How easy it seems to be for the Laos government to accuse you of breaking the law

and the secret police said to the Danes while they were in prison-that they had NO rights !

2. Not being able to have immediate access to your lawyer or your embassy in Laos

3. That according to the book written by Kay Danes - they have an interrogation

room in the prison where it seemed everyone was subject to torture -surely

that is the fundamental difference to Thailand. I don't believe foreign prisoners

are subject to torture in Thai prisons?

4. The conditions are so bad in the Laos prisons that no one is allowed to visit

them. All meetings with embassy or consular staff ( when they are eventually agreed to )

are held at the immigration office to which the prisoner is transported by armed

guard. At least in Thai prisons they allow visitors.

# 2 did they give the lao authorities any reason what so ever to be able to lock them up ?

to

The Lao authorities said the Danes were responsible for the theft of sapphires

whereas it was actually two other foreigners who were the actual directors of the

gem company. Securicor Laos merely provided the security services.

There was a lot of face-saving going on in the end and even though by the description

the court case was a complete farce, they were made

to sign documents ( negotiated between the Australian and Laos governments )

that the Danes agreed to the decision to the court - but after that the process

started for them to return to Australia and before that they received

a Presidential pardon.

Once again as I raised earlier, surely the Prime Minister of Australia

and Foreign Minister would not become involved in a case in which

a foreigner is prima facie guilty of breaking the law ?

Look at these links :and-

http://www.maverickhouse.com/Shared/Books/...are_In_Laos.php

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nightmare-Laos-Imp...g/dp/1905379080

http://www.usp.com.au/fpss/products/index.html

I believe it was saphires and they where hiding the big stones from the athorities because they realised once the gov. realized how rich the find was they where done...........there workers ratted them.........the gov said give us the stones and go free...........they said "we don't have"..........................there rich now..........cost them 10 months

[Maizefarmer]

By the way guys the Laotians Abroad call it a "a brutal Stalinist state "- I never went tat far

.............and that a fairly accurate description from their perspective.

Have you been up north in Laos - have you seen how the Hmong are treated by their own goverment. It is very sad, but having been jumped on once oveer the last fews day for been politcal I am not about to do it again.

Go do some serious research on the Hmong minority ethinic group in Laos - its complete a tradgedy and the international community has done so little to help them.

The Danes will always maintain they were whiter than white - till the day they die. They most certainly weren't, but that did not justify the way they were treated by the Loation authorities.

Tim

Edited September 29, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[terry57]

jdinasia - " A complaint from a sketchy case? "

I suggested yesterday that we forget the " sketchy case " because it's not the reason for my posting in any case. My concern is about the conditions inside the jail and how easy it could be for other foreigners to join them.

Of course are not likely to be 100's of documented cases because who and where would those ex-prisoners go to have it documented? May be those who survived their jail sentences and eventually left the prison simply didn't know how or where to tell their story - and if it was a very minor crime -who would be interested ? It's only the high-profile nature of the case that allowed the opportunity to expose how corrupt these guys are. How do you know there are not 100's of foreigners who have been through the same nightmare ?

I mean what's the use of writing a book when people like you don't believe what's written in books

anyway?

id just like to say midas that conditions in all asian jails are horrendous and you never want to go there.

only 1 exception and thats singapore.

as far as cops setting people up goes,

here in australia it happens and this is suppost to be a civilised country.

just had 2 high profile cases in perth were guys spent over 10 years in the slam before new D.N.A. cleared them. its a real shocker.

america is a basket case as the amount of people proved innocent after languishing in gaol is truly scary especially if you are a black person.

your retoric is now concentrating on the conditions in the lao jail system .

your telling us nothing, as every punter on this planet knows how bad it is so whats your point in all this. ?

i having trouble understanding why your continuing with the thread.

as i said before if you have some new info please give it to us.

cheers midas.

[terry57]

No jdinasia - you do have trouble grasping things dont you ?

I said ignore the case i.e. the details of case regarding

whether Kay and Kerry Danes were guilty or not.

But I see no reason to disbelieve her account of what other

foreign prisoners were and are going through

because it's the only documentation there happens

to be at this point ! Maybe the Laos people

living abroad in exile and there huge numbers of them in

America - may have a better chance to be heard now.

" no-one is likely to be put in anything remotely approaching

the situation that were described in that book "

you're so good at generalising !

I'm not saying be frightened I'm saying be aware -

I think that difference may be too subtle for you

steady on midas,

cricky's mate dont go to hard on JD,

he's a bit depressed, as he just bought a dog called bruiser and even the dog hates him.

cost him 3000 frigging baht at the weekend market and its got freaking parvo virus.

[terry57]

jdinasia - " A complaint from a sketchy case? "

I suggested yesterday that we forget the " sketchy case " because it's not the reason for my posting in any case. My concern is about the conditions inside the jail and how easy it could be for other foreigners to join them.

Of course are not likely to be 100's of documented cases because who and where would those ex-prisoners go to have it documented? May be those who survived their jail sentences and eventually left the prison simply didn't know how or where to tell their story - and if it was a very minor crime -who would be interested ? It's only the high-profile nature of the case that allowed the opportunity to expose how corrupt these guys are. How do you know there are not 100's of foreigners who have been through the same nightmare ?

I mean what's the use of writing a book when people like you don't believe what's written in books

anyway?

To make $$$?

You said ignore that case --- then referred back to is as documentation and since there doesn't seem to be other documented cases and no-one is likely to be put in anything remotely approaching the situation that were described in that book, it just comes across as more than a tish 'reactionary' to be frightened of travelling there . I think you could find books about horror stories anywhere ......

Exactly. To make $$$$$

The media, particularly the Oz media delight in this type of thing. They are very good at putting a story forward and then portraying what happened in that story to apply to anyone who goes to that place.

Turkey. Bali. Laos. Thailand. The ME.

Look at the case of the 'beautician in Bali. Her family has book deal, she has a bok deal and I'm sure her coworkers have been paid for 'imtimate' details of her life before she ended up in jail.

Australia being an isolated country, in the meaning of being so far from anywhere else, and with its small population is prone to sensationalising storys to feed the ever increasing amount of bored housewives and disgruntled workers.

If it worries you to go.

Don't go.

cricky's mate ,

im an aussie and i'll back the old swagman up on that one.

bored house wifes, how frigging true is that mate.

[terry57]

jdinasia and swagman -OK OK - let's forget completely about the Danes book !

What about the following extract taken from a letter written by Sin Vilay

Under-Secretary General Assembly of Delegates of Laotians Abroad

addressed to U.S. House of Representatives - the full letter can be read

from the link below but Sin Vilay goes on to say :-

" ................the LPDR government's perennial poor record on human rights. They

continue to restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly and association. Citizens

do not have the right to change their government. Police uses arbitrary arrest, lengthy

detention without charge, and surveillance. Prisoners are abused and tortured, and

prison conditions generally are extremely harsh and life threatening "

see :- http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=494

Nothing to do with the Danes - yes we can cast aside the claims of book promters but surely we have no reason to disbelieve the citizens of that country who are now living in exile ?.

jes--us midas,

you've already told us that 30 frigging times and i understand that its a <deleted> idea to end up in the slam in lao, OK.

tell me again and im going to get mr plod to pay you a little visit and lock you up in the tower of bloody londonstan

[Little_Buddy]

I'd certainly rather be a white guy going to Laos than an Arab heading to the US <or living there> these days!

Why? Is the US dunking Arab heads in toilets and shocking and burning their genitals (as is being done to farang prisoners in Laos)?

Edited September 30, 2006 by Little_Buddy

[Thaddeus]

This thread is now spiralling down to destruction. Nothing new has been said, as a matter of fact, the contributions from two of the posters have just been a rehash of 'facts' already well understood by the audience at large.

I think that I will start a topic about how horrific the conditions were in Cell Block H

It would have about the same relevance as the content of this thread to it's title.

[midas]

Hey terry57 - you are right - I have nothing more to add so this is my last post in this thread YIPEE he says !

At least you have verified the identity of jdnasia because as he suggested I might have been

the rep for the book -I was wondering if the real identity of jdnasia might have been none other than

the Laos Tourist Minister ?????????????

Anyway terry at the beginning you came across as a hard bastard but now I you sound like

a decent bloke - considering your from Australia's provinces - I'm from Sydney !

Cheers

[jdinasia]

This thread is now spiralling down to destruction. Nothing new has been said, as a matter of fact, the contributions from two of the posters have just been a rehash of 'facts' already well understood by the audience at large.

I think that I will start a topic about how horrific the conditions were in Cell Block H

It would have about the same relevance as the content of this thread to it's title.

Yeppers the thread has very little to do with its title ..... and a lot to do with someone's agenda

[abdulrahman]

Sssshhhh,jd,don't reawake the troll!