properperson Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Was wondering if any Brits on here who have re-claimed UK Income tax on heir pension could offer some help..... Little info: Age 55, lived here 6 years, on retirement visa, no income here (just live off savings), no assets in the UK. I recently cashed in a small pension and the UK insurance co (Aviva) deducted 25% basic tax...... Knowing i was living in Thailand, the iinurance company sent me a "double taxation" form to complete and send to HMRC along with the P60's showing the tax deducted......... So look down the form and its asking for a Thai "tax number" - well i ain't got one as i don't pay tax here - is that ok and can i put "Not applicable" on the form, or will the HRMC say no tax number - no tax refund.... Any help greatfully received. ps: while i think about, when its time to start claiming my Government state pension - will this be paid without any deduction of tax or will it be net of the 25% basic tax and i have to re-claim it ?? Link to comment
topt Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is being argued about discussed in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833471-finding-a-local-tax-advisor-for-expats-in-pattaya/ where the evidence to me looks like there is no double taxation treaty on pensions between UK and Thailand unless you have what is termed a “Government pension” – which is not the same as the state pension. However I could be completely wrong…… I think you should be able to claim the personal allowance of £10,600 for this year against any tax paid. My advice would be to contact the non resident tax centre and ask them - presuming also that you are officially non resident for tax purposes as far as HMRC are concerned? Link to comment
properperson Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is being argued about discussed in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833471-finding-a-local-tax-advisor-for-expats-in-pattaya/ where the evidence to me looks like there is no double taxation treaty on pensions between UK and Thailand unless you have what is termed a “Government pension” – which is not the same as the state pension. However I could be completely wrong…… I think you should be able to claim the personal allowance of £10,600 for this year against any tax paid. My advice would be to contact the non resident tax centre and ask them - presuming also that you are officially non resident for tax purposes as far as HMRC are concerned? its not a "goverment pension" - ie old gage pension - a private pension taken out with a UK insurance company.... I've tried phoning the "help line" - but permantly engaged - hence the post on here.... Anyone else got any ideas ??? Link to comment
topt Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is being argued about discussed in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833471-finding-a-local-tax-advisor-for-expats-in-pattaya/ where the evidence to me looks like there is no double taxation treaty on pensions between UK and Thailand unless you have what is termed a “Government pension” – which is not the same as the state pension. However I could be completely wrong…… I think you should be able to claim the personal allowance of £10,600 for this year against any tax paid. My advice would be to contact the non resident tax centre and ask them - presuming also that you are officially non resident for tax purposes as far as HMRC are concerned? its not a "goverment pension" - ie old gage pension - a private pension taken out with a UK insurance company.... I've tried phoning the "help line" - but permantly engaged - hence the post on here.... Anyone else got any ideas ??? If you have savings here (Thailand) and get interest from those savings you may be being taxed. If so you can claim that tax back from the Thai tax man and in the process you would have to get a tax id number. This is covered in a number of posts in the banking forum - just do a search on reclaiming tax on interest or similar. Are you trying the pensions help line or the non resident tax helpline? The pension one is probably going to be on melt down for a while with all the changes going on. By the way if your savings are in the UK then presumably generating some interest - if you are paid gross then this would go against you personal allowance and if net than you could claim back against your personal allowance. Have you also read through this thread as you may find the answer you are looking for in it - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807027-uk-private-pension-changes-to-pension-laws/ Link to comment
MaeJoMTB Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 You need to fill in form P53 Reclaim tax when taking a small pension as a lump sum. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-repayment-claim-when-small-pension-taken-as-a-lump-sum-p53 Link to comment
chiang mai Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The insurance company deducts tax based on your tax coding number, they cannot decide whether to deduct tax or not. The fact that Aviva sent you a double taxation treaty form was an attempt at them being helpful. You need to settle the matter with HMRC directly, they are usually very helpful and easy to deal with in these situations. Link to comment
huawei Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 ^^^ correct as you cashed it in, otherwise SA ( self assessment) 105. Link to comment
properperson Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 The insurance company deducts tax based on your tax coding number, they cannot decide whether to deduct tax or not. The fact that Aviva sent you a double taxation treaty form was an attempt at them being helpful. You need to settle the matter with HMRC directly, they are usually very helpful and easy to deal with in these situations. well they didn't ask me !! they said they were required to deducd basic income tax after the 25% tax free allowance, which they did and directed me to the double tax form...... Link to comment
properperson Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is being argued about discussed in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833471-finding-a-local-tax-advisor-for-expats-in-pattaya/ where the evidence to me looks like there is no double taxation treaty on pensions between UK and Thailand unless you have what is termed a “Government pension” – which is not the same as the state pension. However I could be completely wrong…… I think you should be able to claim the personal allowance of £10,600 for this year against any tax paid. My advice would be to contact the non resident tax centre and ask them - presuming also that you are officially non resident for tax purposes as far as HMRC are concerned? where do i contct them ?? do you have an e mail address ?? not sure what i'm officially classed as - i just left the UK several years ago and said "nowt" - i'm as resident as i can be in Thailand on a retirement visa... Link to comment
properperson Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is being argued about discussed in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833471-finding-a-local-tax-advisor-for-expats-in-pattaya/ where the evidence to me looks like there is no double taxation treaty on pensions between UK and Thailand unless you have what is termed a “Government pension” – which is not the same as the state pension. However I could be completely wrong…… I think you should be able to claim the personal allowance of £10,600 for this year against any tax paid. My advice would be to contact the non resident tax centre and ask them - presuming also that you are officially non resident for tax purposes as far as HMRC are concerned? its not a "goverment pension" - ie old gage pension - a private pension taken out with a UK insurance company.... I've tried phoning the "help line" - but permantly engaged - hence the post on here.... Anyone else got any ideas ??? If you have savings here (Thailand) and get interest from those savings you may be being taxed. If so you can claim that tax back from the Thai tax man and in the process you would have to get a tax id number. This is covered in a number of posts in the banking forum - just do a search on reclaiming tax on interest or similar. Are you trying the pensions help line or the non resident tax helpline? The pension one is probably going to be on melt down for a while with all the changes going on. By the way if your savings are in the UK then presumably generating some interest - if you are paid gross then this would go against you personal allowance and if net than you could claim back against your personal allowance. Have you also read through this thread as you may find the answer you are looking for in it - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807027-uk-private-pension-changes-to-pension-laws/ only have a small amount and just left in current account, so no interest earnt - hence no need to contact the Thai tax office..... yes tried the pensions help line to no avail..... savings are in Thailand - no money / property in the uk..... Link to comment
chiang mai Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The insurance company deducts tax based on your tax coding number, they cannot decide whether to deduct tax or not. The fact that Aviva sent you a double taxation treaty form was an attempt at them being helpful. You need to settle the matter with HMRC directly, they are usually very helpful and easy to deal with in these situations. well they didn't ask me !! they said they were required to deducd basic income tax after the 25% tax free allowance, which they did and directed me to the double tax form...... The insurance company is wrong in that instance, they are not required to deduct basic rate tax if your tax coding number says it is not required. I and many others on this forum have been through this previously with various pension/insurance companies so I speak from first hand knowledge on this point. Link to comment
topt Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The insurance company deducts tax based on your tax coding number, they cannot decide whether to deduct tax or not. The fact that Aviva sent you a double taxation treaty form was an attempt at them being helpful. You need to settle the matter with HMRC directly, they are usually very helpful and easy to deal with in these situations. well they didn't ask me !! they said they were required to deducd basic income tax after the 25% tax free allowance, which they did and directed me to the double tax form...... The insurance company is wrong in that instance, they are not required to deduct basic rate tax if your tax coding number says it is not required. I and many others on this forum have been through this previously with various pension/insurance companies so I speak from first hand knowledge on this point. OP you can try here for some online forms - but it may take a while to get a reply - https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-and-capital-gains-tax-enquiries-for-non-uk-residents - which also has a phone number at the bottom of the page. Specifically - https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/CNR_GEN_SEF I have just checked my correspondence with HMRC and you will probably have to talk to your old tax office who should still have your details. They will probably request a Form P85. Link to comment
Ricardo Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I had a similar case this January, with a P60 showing tax-deducted from a small Standard Life cashed-in pension-policy, which I reported on the pinned pensions-thread. I don't have a UK tax-code, as I haven't lived there for a decade, so the company were required to use an emergency PAYE-code, and deduct 20% income-tax on the 75% of the cashed-in sum which was possibly taxable. HMRC didn't respond to my letter in February requesting an early-refund, but did send me a P800 Tax Calculation form after the year-end, showing the income & deduction. They concluded that "Your personal allowances exceed your taxable income, no tax is due", and sent me a full-refund by cheque in May. Based on my own experience, and provided that the pension-company & HMRC are aware of your Thai address, I would therefore expect a full refund in-the-post sometime around May-2016, when they process paperwork for the current tax-year 2015-16. But it might be worth writing to them now, and requesting an early-refund, on the grounds that you have (and expect) no other income to arise within the UK during the cuurent tax-year ? Good luck ! Link to comment
i claudius Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 This is being argued about discussed in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833471-finding-a-local-tax-advisor-for-expats-in-pattaya/ where the evidence to me looks like there is no double taxation treaty on pensions between UK and Thailand unless you have what is termed a “Government pension” – which is not the same as the state pension. However I could be completely wrong…… I think you should be able to claim the personal allowance of £10,600 for this year against any tax paid. My advice would be to contact the non resident tax centre and ask them - presuming also that you are officially non resident for tax purposes as far as HMRC are concerned? its not a "goverment pension" - ie old gage pension - a private pension taken out with a UK insurance company.... I've tried phoning the "help line" - but permantly engaged - hence the post on here.... Anyone else got any ideas ??? I got taxed on a pension from aviva,not their problem phone tax office. Tax office phone aviva like a fuc_ing merry go round ,in the end just gave up Link to comment
properperson Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 I had a similar case this January, with a P60 showing tax-deducted from a small Standard Life cashed-in pension-policy, which I reported on the pinned pensions-thread. I don't have a UK tax-code, as I haven't lived there for a decade, so the company were required to use an emergency PAYE-code, and deduct 20% income-tax on the 75% of the cashed-in sum which was possibly taxable. HMRC didn't respond to my letter in February requesting an early-refund, but did send me a P800 Tax Calculation form after the year-end, showing the income & deduction. They concluded that "Your personal allowances exceed your taxable income, no tax is due", and sent me a full-refund by cheque in May. Based on my own experience, and provided that the pension-company & HMRC are aware of your Thai address, I would therefore expect a full refund in-the-post sometime around May-2016, when they process paperwork for the current tax-year 2015-16. But it might be worth writing to them now, and requesting an early-refund, on the grounds that you have (and expect) no other income to arise within the UK during the cuurent tax-year ? Good luck ! ....How long did it take to get your Thai account credited once you paid the cheque in ?? Weren't they abe to just credit your Thai bank account ?? Link to comment
Ricardo Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) I had a similar case this January, with a P60 showing tax-deducted from a small Standard Life cashed-in pension-policy, which I reported on the pinned pensions-thread. I don't have a UK tax-code, as I haven't lived there for a decade, so the company were required to use an emergency PAYE-code, and deduct 20% income-tax on the 75% of the cashed-in sum which was possibly taxable. HMRC didn't respond to my letter in February requesting an early-refund, but did send me a P800 Tax Calculation form after the year-end, showing the income & deduction. They concluded that "Your personal allowances exceed your taxable income, no tax is due", and sent me a full-refund by cheque in May. Based on my own experience, and provided that the pension-company & HMRC are aware of your Thai address, I would therefore expect a full refund in-the-post sometime around May-2016, when they process paperwork for the current tax-year 2015-16. But it might be worth writing to them now, and requesting an early-refund, on the grounds that you have (and expect) no other income to arise within the UK during the cuurent tax-year ? Good luck ! ....How long did it take to get your Thai account credited once you paid the cheque in ?? Weren't they abe to just credit your Thai bank account ?? I mostly bank offshore, with HSBC in Jersey, so I posted the cheque (and a paying-in slip) to the Channel Islands as-usual for me with minor personal-cheques. My account was credited with the HMRC-cheque about 10 days after posting it off from Thailand, so no great delay in clearing it. They might have credited a Thai-bank account by transfer, I do have one with SCB, but on-principle I never tell HMRC anything about my offshore/non-UK affairs, including the existence of bank-accounts or investments, as it's none of their business ! Edited November 27, 2015 by Ricardo Link to comment
meatboy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 i got taxed on a trivial amount,[private pension] you should know your tax address,its on your codeing notice with your tax.ref.no. fill in the form send it to them,they will ask you for your banking details,UK ? OR A THAI ACC. i still got a uk.bank acc.so the tax refund was paid into it. unless you exceed your personal allowance in the UK. they will refund no questions asked. Link to comment
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