Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered

[sweatalot]

And what happened to the situation where his son was supposedly flying to Japan to show legal registration papers of the gun?

legal registration papers is an euphemism for big brown envelopes

but this is not Thailand

[2fishin2]

It is illegal in Japan for an ordinary citizen to own a handgun. It is extremely difficult to own a rifle. This is an extremely serious offense to the Japanese.

[Arkady]

What is all the hoopla about whether the gun was registered? That would be a Thai issue and a secondary issue ie possessing an unregistered/unreported gun. The alleged crime is carrying a loaded gun into the passenger cabin of a passenger plane. Extremely serious offense in today's climate.

The last article showed a pic of the gun which was a derringer sized, one shot 22 pistol. Easy to miss in an X-ray scan. How did this change to a full size 5 shot pistol?

Are the conspiracy theorists and spin doctors just having a binge?...

Really.

So having an unregistered and therefore illegal weapon in your possession, lying to the police (apparently) that it was registered in your own country and not being able to produce documentary evidence won't be of interest to the Japanese police, IYO. They will just charge him with attempting to carry it on a plane. You reckon? Hope you're not a lawyer.

The alleged crime(s) will be what the prosecutors decide to charge him with. Of course they may decide the gun was carried in from Thailand, is registered to him there, and it was all a mistake. He forgot he put it in his bag, forgot he shouldn't take it on a plane, take it to another country, bring it back on a plane, carry it loaded and forgot where he put all the documentation. Easy mistakes when you're forgetful.

It's a 5 shot .22 caliber derringer revolver. Hardly the key chain toy one top Thai copy tried to pass it off as. Plenty of information on this thread about the type of gun. And no, not easy to miss if security are doing their job right.

No, I'm not a lawyer and would probably be a lousy one anyway.

However, the unregistered gun is a crime in Thailand not Japan unless Japan has a law requiring a gun be registered in a person's home country before being allowed in which it probably does have. But, of course, it was sneaked in. Seems a bit odd that there would also be a law requiring smuggled weapons be registered. Anyway, seems to me the more significant crime is the smuggling. I fail to see how it's registration status has any real bearing on that. But, that crime pales beside the crime of bringing it aboard the plane.

Now I didn't say the registration would not "be of interest to the Japanese police" which it would but I suspect goes more to understanding motive than a crime. And as we know, understanding motive is often relevant to weighing the seriousness and intent of the crime. But, obviously I don't know Japanese laws in this respect.

I stand corrected re: the 5 shot derringer. Thought I had read single shot. But still rather surprised that such a tiny gun can hold that. However, I still believe it's small size can be easily missed by security, not an excuse just a reality in an overwhelmed system...No comment re: incompetence other than the Japanese caught it, the Thais did not...it's statistically based and a deterrence system not foolproof....ha, well, I guess I commented anyway...

I think the idea was the Japanese were exploring the defence that was already suggested by Thai police that he had a gun that he could legally carry around Thailand fully loaded and took it to Japan through an honest mistake. Now it looks more like the case of some one who was actually a habitual criminal in Thailand, rather than a law abiding retiree, since he carried an unregistered firearm around with his meds, and thought so little of it that he forgot that it was there. Even if the Japanese had accepted the defense of a forgetful but law abiding citizen, he wasn't licensed to carry a gun in Japan and certainly not to carry one on to a plane. In the unlikely event that the incident had taken place in Thailand, nobody would have pointed out the lack of Thai serial number and gun would have been returned to him.

The gun seems to the standard NAA Sidewider model which is a 5 shot .22 magnum. The .22 magnum packs a punch that is 50% harder than the standard .22 long rifle cartridge.

[rametindallas]

Now, the only way Kamronwit could be deeper in the poo is if he had gone on a shooting rampage in Japan. One question I would dearly like to ask him. "Why did you keep it loaded when you easily can buy .22 magnum cartridges in Thailand?" There is stupid, breathtakingly stupid, glaringly stupid, but this is approaching 'blindingly stupid'. Wow!

.

Stupid is as stupid does! Can we be sure he was a Police General? Surely "stupid" people do not get promoted do they?

Thailand; a place where who you know is waaay more important than what you know. Do you know who my father is?

.

[rametindallas]

Now, the only way Kamronwit could be deeper in the poo is if he had gone on a shooting rampage in Japan. One question I would dearly like to ask him. "Why did you keep it loaded when you easily can buy .22 magnum cartridges in Thailand?" There is stupid, breathtakingly stupid, glaringly stupid, but this is approaching 'blindingly stupid'. Wow!

.

He is not the first Thai to be stupid and certainly not the last.

I see a lot of stupid people around me everyday.

It's notable because of the high position he attained.

.

[teacherpaul]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Surely you are not suggesting Mr T?

Famous for his 'honest mistake" defence.

If the gun can be proved to have been a gift from Mr T, he'll be dropped by Prayuth like a hot brick. He'll get no help from Thailand if this is the case.

[rametindallas]

Many people will disagree with you. Source please? In general when people are speaking of 'Arabic numbers' they mean these numbers:

From Wikipedia,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals: Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals^[1][2] or Indo-Arabic numerals^[3] are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today.

Like I said earlier, at Kamronwit's trial, all the evidence will be presented and it will be proven if I am right or wrong. In the meantime, why does it matter to you if you are so sure I am wrong? I have the right to speculate the same as many who have been speculating on this subject for the last few days. Thank you, in advance, for allowing me to voice my opinion.

I thought the same as you but to be sure, I did a Bing Image Search and this if what I found when I typed in 'Arabic numbers': http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=arabic+numbers&qs=SC&sk=&FORM=QBILPG&pq=arabic%20mumbers&sc=8-14&sp=1&qs=SC&sk=&ghc=1

The numbering system the West uses now is usually referred to as Western Arabic/European numerals.

Modern-day Arab telephone keypad with two forms of Arabic numerals: Western Arabic/European numerals on the left and Eastern Arabic numerals on the right:

EgyptphoneKeypad.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

.

And because a newspaper report said that a source omitted "westernised" while also mistakenly calling Roman lettering English, there is a procedure where guns are stamped with the numeral system of the region where they are sold. There is NO evidence anywhere that such a procedure exists that I can find, and the best you have come up with is a phone keypad using both number systems.

You're beating a dead horse.

.

[Halion]

Here is a true reflection of the current state of this nation.

Senior, much accredited police officer of substantive rank owns and carry's a covert unregistered loaded firearm on an overseas trip.

Let the Japanese decide what to do opposite their laws and lets see what happens to this hapless sod when he returns. Possession of an unregistered firearm in Thailand is also a serious offense regardless of who the hell you think you are. Shall we see the new regime exercise what they are preaching.

[Halion]

Now, the only way Kamronwit could be deeper in the poo is if he had gone on a shooting rampage in Japan. One question I would dearly like to ask him. "Why did you keep it loaded when you easily can buy .22 magnum cartridges in Thailand?" There is stupid, breathtakingly stupid, glaringly stupid, but this is approaching 'blindingly stupid'. Wow!

.It would be most unlikely that this pistol could use the .22 magnum cartridge owing to the cylinder length which is only 2 cm.

He is not the first Thai to be stupid and certainly not the last.

I see a lot of stupid people around me everyday.

It's notable because of the high position he attained.

.

[Thai at Heart]

What is all the hoopla about whether the gun was registered? That would be a Thai issue and a secondary issue ie possessing an unregistered/unreported gun. The alleged crime is carrying a loaded gun into the passenger cabin of a passenger plane. Extremely serious offense in today's climate.

The last article showed a pic of the gun which was a derringer sized, one shot 22 pistol. Easy to miss in an X-ray scan. How did this change to a full size 5 shot pistol?

Are the conspiracy theorists and spin doctors just having a binge?...

Really.

So having an unregistered and therefore illegal weapon in your possession, lying to the police (apparently) that it was registered in your own country and not being able to produce documentary evidence won't be of interest to the Japanese police, IYO. They will just charge him with attempting to carry it on a plane. You reckon? Hope you're not a lawyer.

The alleged crime(s) will be what the prosecutors decide to charge him with. Of course they may decide the gun was carried in from Thailand, is registered to him there, and it was all a mistake. He forgot he put it in his bag, forgot he shouldn't take it on a plane, take it to another country, bring it back on a plane, carry it loaded and forgot where he put all the documentation. Easy mistakes when you're forgetful.

It's a 5 shot .22 caliber derringer revolver. Hardly the key chain toy one top Thai copy tried to pass it off as. Plenty of information on this thread about the type of gun. And no, not easy to miss if security are doing their job right.

No, I'm not a lawyer and would probably be a lousy one anyway.

However, the unregistered gun is a crime in Thailand not Japan unless Japan has a law requiring a gun be registered in a person's home country before being allowed in which it probably does have. But, of course, it was sneaked in. Seems a bit odd that there would also be a law requiring smuggled weapons be registered. Anyway, seems to me the more significant crime is the smuggling. I fail to see how it's registration status has any real bearing on that. But, that crime pales beside the crime of bringing it aboard the plane.

Now I didn't say the registration would not "be of interest to the Japanese police" which it would but I suspect goes more to understanding motive than a crime. And as we know, understanding motive is often relevant to weighing the seriousness and intent of the crime. But, obviously I don't know Japanese laws in this respect.

I stand corrected re: the 5 shot derringer. Thought I had read single shot. But still rather surprised that such a tiny gun can hold that. However, I still believe it's small size can be easily missed by security, not an excuse just a reality in an overwhelmed system...No comment re: incompetence other than the Japanese caught it, the Thais did not...it's statistically based and a deterrence system not foolproof....ha, well, I guess I commented anyway...

Huh? The unregistered gun is a crime in Japan AND Thailand. Unless its legal to have an unlicensed gun in Japan.

And yes, I think u would make a lousy lawyer.

[TPI]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Surely you are not suggesting Mr T?

Famous for his 'honest mistake" defence.

I'm personally horrified with that sugestion! How could any reasonable person think that Mr T would abet an illegal transaction!

[sweatalot]

I very much doubt that guns sold in Thailand from international gun makers have their serial numbers written in Thai. This is a report from the Japanese side NOT the Thai side. Can anyone with a legal gun in the family confirm about the serial numbers please!

our legally in Thailand bought gun, made in US has the serial number in normal western (arabic) numbers. No Thai letter

[halloween]

And because a newspaper report said that a source omitted "westernised" while also mistakenly calling Roman lettering English, there is a procedure where guns are stamped with the numeral system of the region where they are sold. There is NO evidence anywhere that such a procedure exists that I can find, and the best you have come up with is a phone keypad using both number systems.

You're beating a dead horse.

.

More like trying to teach a pig to whistle. I'm just wasting my time.................

I don't suppose there is any need to ask if you've had any luck with any record of a US arms manufacturer stamping serial numbers in other than westernised arabic numerals?

Edited June 28, 2015 by halloween

[TPI]

What is all the hoopla about whether the gun was registered? That would be a Thai issue and a secondary issue ie possessing an unregistered/unreported gun. The alleged crime is carrying a loaded gun into the passenger cabin of a passenger plane. Extremely serious offense in today's climate.

The last article showed a pic of the gun which was a derringer sized, one shot 22 pistol. Easy to miss in an X-ray scan. How did this change to a full size 5 shot pistol?

Are the conspiracy theorists and spin doctors just having a binge?...

Really.

So having an unregistered and therefore illegal weapon in your possession, lying to the police (apparently) that it was registered in your own country and not being able to produce documentary evidence won't be of interest to the Japanese police, IYO. They will just charge him with attempting to carry it on a plane. You reckon? Hope you're not a lawyer.

The alleged crime(s) will be what the prosecutors decide to charge him with. Of course they may decide the gun was carried in from Thailand, is registered to him there, and it was all a mistake. He forgot he put it in his bag, forgot he shouldn't take it on a plane, take it to another country, bring it back on a plane, carry it loaded and forgot where he put all the documentation. Easy mistakes when you're forgetful.

It's a 5 shot .22 caliber derringer revolver. Hardly the key chain toy one top Thai copy tried to pass it off as. Plenty of information on this thread about the type of gun. And no, not easy to miss if security are doing their job right.

No, I'm not a lawyer and would probably be a lousy one anyway.

However, the unregistered gun is a crime in Thailand not Japan unless Japan has a law requiring a gun be registered in a person's home country before being allowed in which it probably does have. But, of course, it was sneaked in. Seems a bit odd that there would also be a law requiring smuggled weapons be registered. Anyway, seems to me the more significant crime is the smuggling. I fail to see how it's registration status has any real bearing on that. But, that crime pales beside the crime of bringing it aboard the plane.

Now I didn't say the registration would not "be of interest to the Japanese police" which it would but I suspect goes more to understanding motive than a crime. And as we know, understanding motive is often relevant to weighing the seriousness and intent of the crime. But, obviously I don't know Japanese laws in this respect.

I stand corrected re: the 5 shot derringer. Thought I had read single shot. But still rather surprised that such a tiny gun can hold that. However, I still believe it's small size can be easily missed by security, not an excuse just a reality in an overwhelmed system...No comment re: incompetence other than the Japanese caught it, the Thais did not...it's statistically based and a deterrence system not foolproof....ha, well, I guess I commented anyway...

I think the idea was the Japanese were exploring the defence that was already suggested by Thai police that he had a gun that he could legally carry around Thailand fully loaded and took it to Japan through an honest mistake. Now it looks more like the case of some one who was actually a habitual criminal in Thailand, rather than a law abiding retiree, since he carried an unregistered firearm around with his meds, and thought so little of it that he forgot that it was there. Even if the Japanese had accepted the defense of a forgetful but law abiding citizen, he wasn't licensed to carry a gun in Japan and certainly not to carry one on to a plane. In the unlikely event that the incident had taken place in Thailand, nobody would have pointed out the lack of Thai serial number and gun would have been returned to him.

The gun seems to the standard NAA Sidewider model which is a 5 shot .22 magnum. The .22 magnum packs a punch that is 50% harder than the standard .22 long rifle cartridge.

.22 magnum is pretty close to 9mm in close up power, which is what the pistol is designed for!

[stevenl]

Those are 'Westernized' Arabic numbers. The OP says Arabic numbers. example below of Arabic numbers that would be stamped on a gun to be sold in an Arabic speaking country where they use Arabic numbers so Arabic authorities can read the serial numbers. Dubai, for example.

Many people will disagree with you. Source please? In general when people are speaking of 'Arabic numbers' they mean these numbers:

From Wikipedia,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals: Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals^[1][2] or Indo-Arabic numerals^[3] are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today.

Like I said earlier, at Kamronwit's trial, all the evidence will be presented and it will be proven if I am right or wrong. In the meantime, why does it matter to you if you are so sure I am wrong? I have the right to speculate the same as many who have been speculating on this subject for the last few days. Thank you, in advance, for allowing me to voice my opinion.

I thought the same as you but to be sure, I did a Bing Image Search and this if what I found when I typed in 'Arabic numbers': http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=arabic+numbers&qs=SC&sk=&FORM=QBILPG&pq=arabic%20mumbers&sc=8-14&sp=1&qs=SC&sk=&ghc=1

The numbering system the West uses now is usually referred to as Western Arabic/European numerals.

Modern-day Arab telephone keypad with two forms of Arabic numerals: Western Arabic/European numerals on the left and Eastern Arabic numerals on the right:

EgyptphoneKeypad.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

.

You can speculate all you like, but don't correct others with incorrect specific and general information.

[sweatalot]

No mention of the purpose of his trip.

I believe there was actually, he was one of 80 Thais on a junk junket, a trash trip or a garbage disposal seminar in Japan.

Why a police general would be there is quite beyond me.

This is Thailand

Being a vip, having vip friends it seems to be easy to get invitations to luxury trips payed by the tax payer on an invented purpose

[Papa San]

When a former chief law enforcer commits a crime for which he is fully aware as being illegal and against the law, what is the most suitable and effective punishment for him in order to make him an example to others not to emulate?

Please make a choice:

-- death by guillotine, firing squad, lethal injection, torture,

-- life imprisonment with no chance of parole or pardon whatsoever

-- do nothing,

-- provide him safe passage to PoiPet so he can escape to Dubai or Montenegro to seek refuge from his Godfather

-- topple the regime and promote him to the position of prime minister in charge of enforcing corruption and promoting all kinds of criminal acts agains the people by unleashing the power of the Monsters in Red

Your answer will determine what kind of a person you are -- patriot or traitor.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Possession of an unregistered firearm in Thailand is also a serious offense regardless of who the hell you think you are.

If anyone's expecting any reasonable justice in this case, meaning having the laws fairly applied and a reasonable sentence befitting the facts, it's only going to happen in Japan -- not in Thailand.

This guy is a former senior RTP officer who presumably has much of the police establishment behind him. And they're the ones who would have to originate any criminal case against him here in Thailand..

And then, there is the "deference" Thai courts seem to give to police defendants who are actually convicted in criminal cases.

Just the other day, the Supreme Court handed down a suspended two-year sentence (meaning no jail time) to a police officer who was actually convicted of failing to stop attacks on protesters -- with the reasoning that since he'd never been sentenced to jail before, they (the court) shouldn't do so in that case.

The Japanese, AFAIK, don't have the propensity to look the other way when serious criminal offenses have occurred. Let's see what they do with the case and hope it gets resolved there in Japan.

[edko]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Arabic numbers are the same numbers used everywhere, even in Thailand, i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....

[JAG]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Am I reading this right?

You are trying to bring Thaksin into this story?

Seriously?

Wow!

Just wow!

You think this is far fetched?

I don't

Another couple of posts suggesting this and it will be a (Thai Visa) FACT!

[Andreas2]

As already mentioned in another post, there is no such thing as an unregistered, legally produced gun. Meaning, there must be a paper trail to the last registered owner of Mr. Camronwit's gun.

I could imagine that the Japanese Police will or already know, who this was and what the circumstances were under which the gun disappeared. If the gun didn't disappear in Thailand it could also become quite difficult now to "prove" that the gun was already in the luggage when the Pol. General entered Japan. Especially if it is true, that the airport security already destroyed their luggage scans of Mr. Camronwit...

Anyway, as a non-lawyer, I interpret the term "unregistered", as that the gun in question was not reported and approved by the local authorities for Mr. Camronwit to own and bear in their country. It wouldn't matter, if he was legally owning it in Thailand - The gun and it's owner are still not registered and approved in Japan.

But if the gun didn't disappear in Thailand, then it could become an extra challange for the Pol. General to prove that he didn't steal or illegally buy it in Japan. I would expect that it would become extremely ugly for any of us taxfeeders if we were in Mr. Camronwit's situation, anyway.

Let's see how the story develops. If it dies a silent death I assume the General got away - Which wouldn't surprise me too much. I don't expect him to serve three or more years in a Japanese prison... But hope dies last that for a change, once the same punishment is applied to a taxeater as it is to a taxfeeder.

[Transporter]

Amazing that one minute his son is on the way with the registration certificate for the gun and then the next the gun is not registered at all.

Now he claims he bough it in Japan. Did he forget?

Must have been a very stressful flight.

Either that or being in a shared damp cell wearing only his Y fronts has made him say anything at all to try and get out!

I wonder if he will ever come back?

Who cares?

[rametindallas]

Those are 'Westernized' Arabic numbers. The OP says Arabic numbers. example below of Arabic numbers that would be stamped on a gun to be sold in an Arabic speaking country where they use Arabic numbers so Arabic authorities can read the serial numbers. Dubai, for example.

Many people will disagree with you. Source please? In general when people are speaking of 'Arabic numbers' they mean these numbers:

From Wikipedia,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals: Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals^[1][2] or Indo-Arabic numerals^[3] are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today.

Like I said earlier, at Kamronwit's trial, all the evidence will be presented and it will be proven if I am right or wrong. In the meantime, why does it matter to you if you are so sure I am wrong? I have the right to speculate the same as many who have been speculating on this subject for the last few days. Thank you, in advance, for allowing me to voice my opinion.

I thought the same as you but to be sure, I did a Bing Image Search and this if what I found when I typed in 'Arabic numbers': http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=arabic+numbers&qs=SC&sk=&FORM=QBILPG&pq=arabic%20mumbers&sc=8-14&sp=1&qs=SC&sk=&ghc=1

The numbering system the West uses now is usually referred to as Western Arabic/European numerals.

Modern-day Arab telephone keypad with two forms of Arabic numerals: Western Arabic/European numerals on the left and Eastern Arabic numerals on the right:

EgyptphoneKeypad.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

.

You can speculate all you like, but don't correct others with incorrect specific and general information.

In the same vein as Thaksin when he famously said, "The UN is not my father", I tell you that, "You are not my father" so I am not bound by your command.

People have been correcting me on this thread; have you also been admonishing them to not correct others or is it OK for them as long as you agree?

If I respond to someone who replied to me first, am I correcting them or am I responding to let them know I am not persuaded by their argument?

You started this by responding to my opinion and I am not persuaded. If you perceive this as 'correcting' you or others, that is your problem. Bye, now.

.

[MiKT]

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan

From the OP (second to last paragraph): Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

There may have been confusion before but this statement makes it clear that Japanese authorities found it in his 'hand luggage' which cannot be confused with 'checked in luggage'. They found the gun in his 'hand luggage' which is the same as a carry-on bag which means he was attempting to bring a loaded, five-shot, revolver into the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft.

Even if Japan wanted to be lenient, they can't now as this would make them look like they valued passenger safety as secondary to the special treatment of a foreign VIP. The Japanese authorities are dragging the proceedings out as this is very difficult/uncomfortable for them but, in the end, the world is watching and they will have to do what is correct.

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

Also from the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold.

The presence of Arabic numbers does not, in any way, refer to where the gun was manufactured but are serial numbers stamped into the gun's frame to denote the market to which it was sold. North American Arms is a specialty gun manufacturer with only one factory and that is in Provo, Utah. You Tube has video tours of the (one and only) factory.

Here is what Arabic numerals look like:

arabic numerals.jpg

Because of the presence of Arabic numerals in the identifying serial number of this particular hand gun, this is clearly not a gun that would/could have been legally sold in Thailand hence, no paperwork or legal registration. Dubai uses Arabic numerals. Did this gun come from Dubai, maybe? Precious, indeed! Kamronwit just might have carried the 'loyalty/devotion' thing too far this time.

Another note: Since Muslims, by and large, are not permitted into Japan except on tourist visas, it is highly unlikely the gun was acquired in Japan.

.

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

.

I don't wish to be too rude and probably I should read the rest of the posts before I write this. But you must know an eclectic selection of Dumbo's.

Almost every body in the world knows that 1,2,3,4, etc are always known as Arabic numerals. As apposed to Roman Numerals, Thai/Chinese/Japanes/Korean/etc characters.

Also, the chances of this well known but small American gun manufacturer producing pistols with real Arabic numerals (which would be known a Arabic numeric characters) as used in Arabish Chat languages must be very close to less than zero.

The vast majority of people who read this post simply understood that the gun had serial numbers and who cares. He was trying to carry a loaded gun onto a

plane. No excuses at all for that. Put him away for lots of years (say 10, or X, or IV or better yet haha)

NB if it was an AK it would stand a good chance of having Cyrillic characters stamped on the receiver, But it wernt.

Edited June 28, 2015 by MiKT

[rametindallas]

And because a newspaper report said that a source omitted "westernised" while also mistakenly calling Roman lettering English, there is a procedure where guns are stamped with the numeral system of the region where they are sold. There is NO evidence anywhere that such a procedure exists that I can find, and the best you have come up with is a phone keypad using both number systems.

You're beating a dead horse.

.

More like trying to teach a pig to whistle. I'm just wasting my time.................

I don't suppose there is any need to ask if you've had any luck with any record of a US arms manufacturer stamping serial numbers in other than westernised arabic numerals?

Just out of curiosity, what motivates a person to try to teach a pig to whistle?

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[halloween]

More like trying to teach a pig to whistle. I'm just wasting my time.................

I don't suppose there is any need to ask if you've had any luck with any record of a US arms manufacturer stamping serial numbers in other than westernised arabic numerals?

Just out of curiosity, what motivates a person to try to teach a pig to whistle?

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Buggered if I know, that's why I gave up.

BTW that saying has another line, but I didn't want to appear rude.

[JulianLS]

Oh my God, it never ceases to amaze me how many uneducated people post on this site..... Arabic numerals.... 1,2,3,4 and so on. This is common knowledge. The "arabic" numerals were put on the gun by the American manufacturer. Oh derrr....

As to whether he got the gun in Thailand or Japan. Let me ask this. Where are you most likely to be able to lay your hands on an unregistered weapon. Thailand or Japan?

Edited June 28, 2015 by JulianLS

[rametindallas]

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan

From the OP (second to last paragraph): Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

There may have been confusion before but this statement makes it clear that Japanese authorities found it in his 'hand luggage' which cannot be confused with 'checked in luggage'. They found the gun in his 'hand luggage' which is the same as a carry-on bag which means he was attempting to bring a loaded, five-shot, revolver into the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft.

Even if Japan wanted to be lenient, they can't now as this would make them look like they valued passenger safety as secondary to the special treatment of a foreign VIP. The Japanese authorities are dragging the proceedings out as this is very difficult/uncomfortable for them but, in the end, the world is watching and they will have to do what is correct.

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

Also from the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold.

The presence of Arabic numbers does not, in any way, refer to where the gun was manufactured but are serial numbers stamped into the gun's frame to denote the market to which it was sold. North American Arms is a specialty gun manufacturer with only one factory and that is in Provo, Utah. You Tube has video tours of the (one and only) factory.

Here is what Arabic numerals look like:

arabic numerals.jpg

Because of the presence of Arabic numerals in the identifying serial number of this particular hand gun, this is clearly not a gun that would/could have been legally sold in Thailand hence, no paperwork or legal registration. Dubai uses Arabic numerals. Did this gun come from Dubai, maybe? Precious, indeed! Kamronwit just might have carried the 'loyalty/devotion' thing too far this time.

Another note: Since Muslims, by and large, are not permitted into Japan except on tourist visas, it is highly unlikely the gun was acquired in Japan.

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OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

That's pure speculation as the source didn't specify 'Westernized' Arabic numerals in the serial number but did point out that that they did identify the country to which the gun was sold (Arabic numbers for an Arabic country). From my perspective, if he had meant common everyday Western style numerals, he would have simply said, "the gun had only Western numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun..." and it would not be necessary add the word 'Arabic' as no one I know identifies Western numbers as 'Arabic'. All I have to go on is the OP.

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I don't wish to be too rude and probably I should read the rest of the posts before I write this. But you must know an eclectic selection of Dumbo's.

Almost every body in the world knows that 1,2,3,4, etc are always known as Arabic numerals. As apposed to Roman Numerals, Thai/Chinese/Japanes/Korean/etc characters.

Also, the chances of this well known American gun manufacturer producing pistols with real Arabic numerals (which would be known a Arabic numeric characters) as used in Arabish Chat languages must be very close to 0.

The vast majority of people who read this post simply understood that the gun had serial numbers and who cares. He was trying to carry a loaded gun onto a

plane. No excuses at all for that. Put him away for lots of years (say 10, or X, or take your pick)

I don't think you are being rude at all. Since you didn't read the rest of the posts, you don't know how many times I've been challenged on this, you also wouldn't know how tedious it is becoming but, just for you, I will, once again, repeat my explanation of why I posted what I did.

At first I thought the same as you but I wanted to be sure as most people just say 'numbers', when they refer to the numbering system used by the West, and not add the word 'Arabic'. That raised a question in my mind so, I went to Bing Images and typed in 'Arabic numbers' and this is what I got: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Arabic+numbers&go=Submit&qs=n&form=QBILPG&pq=arabic+numbers&sc=8-14&sp=-1&sk=

The OP said: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters... This made me ask myself why the Japanese source would distinguish between Arabic numbers and English letters. Why would't he simply say English numbers and English letters or, simply, numbers and letters and then we could all assume he meant traditional Western numbers and letters? To my thinking, he was obviously making a distinction on the type of numbers that were imprinted on the frame as a serial number.

As I've said repeatedly, the trial will bring out all evidence and we will see photos of the actual gun and I will, for sure, be proven correct or incorrect. I'm wondering why this is so important to so many posters that I have had to address this more than a dozen times on this one thread. I welcome you to interpret the OP in any way you wish and I will interpret to OP any way I wish, as is my right. If my explanation is not good enough for you, I am sorry but it's the same reply I gave the first person who challenged my veracity/viewpoint and it's the best I'm going to attempt for now.

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[Anthony5]

Oh my God, it never ceases to amaze me how many uneducated people post on this site..... Arabic numerals.... 1,2,3,4 and so on. This is common knowledge. The "arabic" numerals were put on the gun by the American manufacturer. Oh derrr....

As to whether he got the gun in Thailand or Japan. Let me ask this. Where are you most likely to be able to lay your hands on an unregistered weapon. Thailand or Japan?

Ever considered that someone who lives in an Arabic country, and who owns a private yet and has been in Japan not so long ago, might have deposited the gun for Camronwit to pick it up and transport to Thailand?

[Jay Sata]

Amazing that one minute his son is on the way with the registration certificate for the gun and then the next the gun is not registered at all.

Now he claims he bough it in Japan. Did he forget?

Must have been a very stressful flight.

Either that or being in a shared damp cell wearing only his Y fronts has made him say anything at all to try and get out!

I wonder if he will ever come back?

Who cares?

Well said.

Despite having five bullets in the chamber at least the good news is they did not find a box of ammo in his luggage.

It must have been quite humiliating for him to have the mugshot taken along with fingerprints and DNA swab then placed in the cell where he has now spent a week locked up.

All taking place in a foreign country with everyone speaking a language you do not understand.

The boredom must be mind numbing.