All the pieces coming together to seriously fight corruption, PACC chief says

[Manbing]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/836530-thai-officials-on-the-graveyard-shift/?utm_source=newsletter-20150629-0757&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

The above story is about the displaced civil servants.

The growing number of civil servants need to be managed under an easy to employ disciplinary action for corruption and for poor work practices.

The other half of the problem is that these bureaucrats have no motivation to do their jobs properly. Where are the performance standards they need to meet?

Start sacking them and see how fast they decide to up their game.

I'd like to see the dept of Immigration as the first target.

Those lazy slackers need a hard kick in the work modes.

Not all immigration officers are slackers. I go to Samui Immigration every three months. They are always busy and very patient with the clueless, ill-dressed folks that show up with their holier-than-thou attitudes. I give the Samui Immigration staff kudos for working in such cramped quarters and having to put up with all the euro-trash, ugly americans, etc. that show up.

Yes they might be less busy if they weren't leaving the lower orders to do all the work, as well as processing all the bulk orders for visas sent from outside Samui.

You know the ones, those where the passports are unaccompanied by owners and large amounts of cash change hands.

[AlQaholic]

According Transparency International Thailand is just slightly more corrupt than Italy......

https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

[BirdsandBooze]

I'm my country stuff goes on but when there caught and they usually are eventually they get punished..as Ezzra said the problem here is its not punished and these sideways movements and inactive post nonsense has to stop and real punishments handed out otherwise they don't stand a chance.. give a period of grace, not very long! And implement the laws, lock up punish seize assets etc regardless who they were but there lies the problem..there all in it aren't they...I have just been trying to think of one area in Thai society that might be clean but I've given up..right from a early age at school etc there at it and everybody grows up thinking that mentality is allowed and the norm....

A feudalistic patronage history and saving face are cultural traits that are extremely slow to change, especially with Thai's so proud of their never being colonized or under the influence of European led bureaucratic systems. Folks are not quickly going to openly change their support for the big guy in town, let alone "rat" on him, when he influences the underlings chances for opportunity in every imaginable way. The "benefits" of patronage flow in both directions. Likewise the big guy is likely going to have a hard time successfully implementing programs if he loses underling support by upsetting their own little rice bowls. These cultural traits are indeed slow to change,

I read in a history book about Thailand that 19th century Siam based it's bureaucratic system on that of Great Britain and allowed a certain amount of influence as a trade off for peaceful relations. Thai diplomats of that era were wise and greatly skilled compared to their modern day counterparts.

[Traveling Sailor]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/836530-thai-officials-on-the-graveyard-shift/?utm_source=newsletter-20150629-0757&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

The above story is about the displaced civil servants.

The growing number of civil servants need to be managed under an easy to employ disciplinary action for corruption and for poor work practices.

The other half of the problem is that these bureaucrats have no motivation to do their jobs properly. Where are the performance standards they need to meet?

Start sacking them and see how fast they decide to up their game.

I'd like to see the dept of Immigration as the first target.

Those lazy slackers need a hard kick in the work modes.

Not all immigration officers are slackers. I go to Samui Immigration every three months. They are always busy and very patient with the clueless, ill-dressed folks that show up with their holier-than-thou attitudes. I give the Samui Immigration staff kudos for working in such cramped quarters and having to put up with all the euro-trash, ugly americans, etc. that show up.

Yes they might be less busy if they weren't leaving the lower orders to do all the work, as well as processing all the bulk orders for visas sent from outside Samui.

You know the ones, those where the passports are unaccompanied by owners and large amounts of cash change hands.

Sorry Manbing, I wasn't aware of any of that. I just go there because I have to file my 90 day and yearly renewal. I smile, be respectful, shower & shave before I go, dress respectfully, say "Thank you" and leave. I don't, and don't want to, get into their politics, work habits, etc.

[EnglishJohn]

I plead in your honest and earnest effort to seriously fight corruption, please do not neglect power corruption. Corrupt individuals exhibit moral deterioration by using their power to benefit themselves and their kinds. Its showing up more and more as each day passed.

But it was OK when they were elected, even by the party list?

It was OK as long as long as it is within the law. You break the law and you are duly punished as in the Thawil case. Contrast that with the coup breaking the law under Section 113 of the Thai Criminal Code, they cant be punished because they tore up the law and granted themselves amnesty which except the junta from guilt and liability. You cant live in denial all the time.

More of the unbelievable red-shirt hypocrisy.

"Corrupt individuals exhibit moral deterioration by using their power to benefit themselves" : after the amnesty bill which is the whole reason we had a coup in the first place, you should be too ashamed to try and criticise others for the same thing. Pheu-Thai tried to use their power to give themselves amnesty for 25,000 cases of corruption.

Can you even see it ? - or are you blind with your political bias ?.

I think you see it, but your personal moral standards are so low, you don't care. You just want them back in so the chance of a gravy train is on the menu again.

[mmh8]

New Hub of not mentioning Corruption to be announced - last night some important people wearing big hats decreed that the mere mention of corruption will result in arrest and loss of all money. From now on all mention of corruption by insinuation or anythiong else for that matter will be treated as an offense law 101 do not upset the junta.

One insider mentioned that wrt to the c word we are thinking of putting them in front of a crowd and having people point at them. we may or may not allow the use of bodyarmour and cycle helmets, the message for everyone out there is corruption will not be tolerated and neither will the mere mention of corruption be tolerated.

[lildragon]

I won't take any of these corruption busting claims seriously until the army are properly investigated. Everyone else is getting it why not the big fat cat generals with bank accounts bigger than their salaries at the top?

[heybruce]

You don't prevent bank robberies by trying to catch the thieves after the robbery, you prevent bank robberies with locks and safes and guards to make robbing the bank difficult

You don't prevent government corruption by attempting to prosecute people after the corruption has occurred, you require transparency in government operations and financial disclosures so people can't divert money or accept bribes without being caught.

What has this or any other government done to increase transparency?

[Muirton]

I plead in your honest and earnest effort to seriously fight corruption, please do not neglect power corruption. Corrupt individuals exhibit moral deterioration by using their power to benefit themselves and their kinds. Its showing up more and more as each day passed.

But it was OK when they were elected, even by the party list?

It was OK as long as long as it is within the law. You break the law and you are duly punished as in the Thawil case. Contrast that with the coup breaking the law under Section 113 of the Thai Criminal Code, they cant be punished because they tore up the law and granted themselves amnesty which except the junta from guilt and liability. You cant live in denial all the time.

More of the unbelievable red-shirt hypocrisy.

"Corrupt individuals exhibit moral deterioration by using their power to benefit themselves" : after the amnesty bill which is the whole reason we had a coup in the first place, you should be too ashamed to try and criticise others for the same thing. Pheu-Thai tried to use their power to give themselves amnesty for 25,000 cases of corruption.

Can you even see it ? - or are you blind with your political bias ?.

I think you see it, but your personal moral standards are so low, you don't care. You just want them back in so the chance of a gravy train is on the menu again.

Let us dispense with juvenile "comments" about "your personal moral standards". They reflect on you and badly.

Your argument is undone by reality. The amnesy bill that falang fascists go on and on and on about was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts. If you do your homework, it's never too late, check how much the YellowShirts would have gained from passage of the amnesty bill.

[Eric Loh]

I plead in your honest and earnest effort to seriously fight corruption, please do not neglect power corruption. Corrupt individuals exhibit moral deterioration by using their power to benefit themselves and their kinds. Its showing up more and more as each day passed.

But it was OK when they were elected, even by the party list?

It was OK as long as long as it is within the law. You break the law and you are duly punished as in the Thawil case. Contrast that with the coup breaking the law under Section 113 of the Thai Criminal Code, they cant be punished because they tore up the law and granted themselves amnesty which except the junta from guilt and liability. You cant live in denial all the time.

More of the unbelievable red-shirt hypocrisy.

"Corrupt individuals exhibit moral deterioration by using their power to benefit themselves" : after the amnesty bill which is the whole reason we had a coup in the first place, you should be too ashamed to try and criticise others for the same thing. Pheu-Thai tried to use their power to give themselves amnesty for 25,000 cases of corruption.

Can you even see it ? - or are you blind with your political bias ?.

I think you see it, but your personal moral standards are so low, you don't care. You just want them back in so the chance of a gravy train is on the menu again.

Try selling another brand of snake oil John. You got to be joking to said the coup was because of the amnesty bill. You exposed yourself to be a fraud telling us you been here for a long time.

Now back to the amnesty bill; it is within the parliamentary system and the constitution for the legislature wing (parliament) to pass a bill. Happens everywhere in the world.It is simply not illegal. In our case, public anger was aroused and the bill withdraw. Drawing similarity, the coup tore up the constitution and again it is within their power to grant themselves amnesty. Same same but difference is that public opinion and opposition are not allowed. That's the moral issue.

[GinBoy2]

Sometimes I'm stunned (still) that some of you love believe that corruption is a color coded thing. The Reds did, ahh but the Yellows did that.

Grow up boys, corruption is endemic throughout society. from the Politicians, Cops, Army, Land Office, the list is endless. There is no political solution, it needs a societal shift, which is a really really hard thing to achieve in a lifetime, let alone a couple of years.

But if you want to believe that one bunch of corrupt kleptocrats are better than the other bunch of equally corrupt kleptocrats...then I hope it makes you feel btter

[tigermonkey]

19,000 reports of corruption cases in hand.
9,000 initial investigations completed.
1,500 under scrutiny.
200 cases pinpointed
4 cases sent to court.

---- after seven years

It absolutely boggles the mind to think how poor the results would have been without the added impetus of the coup.

Edited June 29, 2015 by tigermonkey

[halloween]

Let us dispense with juvenile "comments" about "your personal moral standards". They reflect on you and badly.

Your argument is undone by reality. The amnesy bill that falang fascists go on and on and on about was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts. If you do your homework, it's never too late, check how much the YellowShirts would have gained from passage of the amnesty bill.

I really dislike casual lies, and this one is a beauty "The amnesy bill ......... was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts."

How many PTP "reds" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many UDD "red leaders" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many Democrat Party member "yellows" voted for it?

The bill was supported by the Democrats when it was for rank and file only, and opposed the inclusion of Thaksin and the UDD criminals he appointed to parliament. They also declined to accept it for their own leaders, and the PAD leaders who have just been hit with a huge fine.

Edited June 29, 2015 by halloween

[z42]

Everything here is in such dire straits it almost defies belief. 4 cases made it to court in 4 years, and considering how blatant certain corrupt practices are it's got to be said that the PACC has been frighteningly inefficient and displaying zero tenacity to actually fulfil its mandate (whatever that is).

The society is broken, corruption is the rule & those honest folks who say no are nowhere in sight. there is no fixing this, EVER. Even the Chinese model wouldn't work here because those with the connections have bailed themselves out of jail actually after getting convicted in court and given a death sentence.

It will be interesting to see what unfolds and what political landscape is crafted after the event happens.

[elgordo38]

PACC set up in 2008.

19,000 cases in hand.

9,000 initial investigations completed.

1,500 under committee scrutiny.

200 involving malteasance or corruption.

4 cases sent to court.

"My officers have been working non-stop" PACC Secretary General Prayong Preeyachitt.

Jesus wept!

I take it your not buying into this puzzle. Yes Jesus would weep.

[Muirton]

Let us dispense with juvenile "comments" about "your personal moral standards". They reflect on you and badly.

Your argument is undone by reality. The amnesy bill that falang fascists go on and on and on about was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts. If you do your homework, it's never too late, check how much the YellowShirts would have gained from passage of the amnesty bill.

I really dislike casual lies, and this one is a beauty "The amnesy bill ......... was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts."

How many PTP "reds" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many UDD "red leaders" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many Democrat Party member "yellows" voted for it?

The bill was supported by the Democrats when it was for rank and file only, and opposed the inclusion of Thaksin and the UDD criminals he appointed to parliament. They also declined to accept it for their own leaders, and the PAD leaders who have just been hit with a huge fine.

You are naive beyond measure regarding the amnesty 'contretemps'. Again, skip the juvenile "casual lies" language and start writing Comments like an adult.

[NongKhaiKid]

You don't prevent bank robberies by trying to catch the thieves after the robbery, you prevent bank robberies with locks and safes and guards to make robbing the bank difficult

You don't prevent government corruption by attempting to prosecute people after the corruption has occurred, you require transparency in government operations and financial disclosures so people can't divert money or accept bribes without being caught.

What has this or any other government done to increase transparency?

Well, on taking power the PM did promise his govt would be transparent in all matters then promptly indicated the wealth of the hand picked NCPO was not for discussion.

[rametindallas]

When the cancer of corruption has metastasized to the point where to cut it out will destroy the body, it is too late. Unless they are willing to take out massive good tissue to remove the bad tissue it is hopeless. Cutting all agencies', excepting public safety, personnel by 10% will expose who is protecting the corrupt and the dead-wood. If, after those cuts, the corruption is not diminished, the department heads are cutting the wrong staff and they, themselves, must go. All bureaucracies around the world, are over staffed and over budgeted so if services suffer from a staff/budget cut, the department heads are cutting the wrong staff and the wrong parts of their budget and they, themselves, must go. A lot of good workers will lose their jobs at the expense of the corrupt who are being protected but, offer them the chance to 'rat out' their corrupt colleagues, and the process may get better results. Above all, they must never give up as new corruptible employees will replace old corrupted employees.

Another way would be to focus on one agency at a time and put them under a microscope by combining all the investigators and forensic accountants on one department.

Having the will to sustain the fight is where they all fail.

.

[paulchiangmai]

According Transparency International Thailand is just slightly more corrupt than Italy......

https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

With only four people being taken to court for corruption in the past seven years we can see just why it is only just below Italy. Incidentally, were they convicted?

[Muirton]

Sometimes I'm stunned (still) that some of you love believe that corruption is a color coded thing. The Reds did, ahh but the Yellows did that.

Grow up boys, corruption is endemic throughout society. from the Politicians, Cops, Army, Land Office, the list is endless. There is no political solution, it needs a societal shift, which is a really really hard thing to achieve in a lifetime, let alone a couple of years.

But if you want to believe that one bunch of corrupt kleptocrats are better than the other bunch of equally corrupt kleptocrats...then I hope it makes you feel btter

You miss the point totally.

The issue is not kleptocracy. The issue is civil liberties in conformity with the UN Declaration of Human Rights to which Thailand is a signatory. The two sides which you obnoxiously lecture us about ["Grow up, boys"] are in complete contradiction. There was a "political solution" in progress when the RedShirts won four elections in a row -- a fact so unbearable to certain elements in BKK that an attempt to reverse the flow of history was undertaken. It's not a matter of "wanting to believe" anything, it's a matter of observing facts. Give it a try.

[exbikey]

Professional story tellers

They should write novels

Not novels... Fairy tales

[halloween]

Let us dispense with juvenile "comments" about "your personal moral standards". They reflect on you and badly.

Your argument is undone by reality. The amnesy bill that falang fascists go on and on and on about was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts. If you do your homework, it's never too late, check how much the YellowShirts would have gained from passage of the amnesty bill.

I really dislike casual lies, and this one is a beauty "The amnesy bill ......... was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts."

How many PTP "reds" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many UDD "red leaders" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many Democrat Party member "yellows" voted for it?

The bill was supported by the Democrats when it was for rank and file only, and opposed the inclusion of Thaksin and the UDD criminals he appointed to parliament. They also declined to accept it for their own leaders, and the PAD leaders who have just been hit with a huge fine.

You are naive beyond measure regarding the amnesty 'contretemps'. Again, skip the juvenile "casual lies" language and start writing Comments like an adult.

Unsupported opinion, followed by "naive" and "juvenile" for criticism. If you want credibility, support your statements with facts.

You might also want to comment on the absolute failure of the red shirts by their elected MPs, and Thaksin appointed UDD "red leaders", to support the position you allege they held.

BTW the answer to who DID vote for the amnesty was "PTP/UDD ALL with one abstention, Democrats NIL" - definitely NOT a score to be proud of.

[Muirton]

Let us dispense with juvenile "comments" about "your personal moral standards". They reflect on you and badly.

Your argument is undone by reality. The amnesy bill that falang fascists go on and on and on about was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts. If you do your homework, it's never too late, check how much the YellowShirts would have gained from passage of the amnesty bill.

I really dislike casual lies, and this one is a beauty "The amnesy bill ......... was opposed by RedShirts more than YellowShirts."

How many PTP "reds" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many UDD "red leaders" voted against the amnesty bill?

How many Democrat Party member "yellows" voted for it?

The bill was supported by the Democrats when it was for rank and file only, and opposed the inclusion of Thaksin and the UDD criminals he appointed to parliament. They also declined to accept it for their own leaders, and the PAD leaders who have just been hit with a huge fine.

You are naive beyond measure regarding the amnesty 'contretemps'. Again, skip the juvenile "casual lies" language and start writing Comments like an adult.

Unsupported opinion, followed by "naive" and "juvenile" for criticism. If you want credibility, support your statements with facts.

You might also want to comment on the absolute failure of the red shirts by their elected MPs, and Thaksin appointed UDD "red leaders", to support the position you allege they held.

BTW the answer to who DID vote for the amnesty was "PTP/UDD ALL with one abstention, Democrats NIL" - definitely NOT a score to be proud of.

"support your statements with facts." I do not have the freedom of speech under the current government that would allow me to even tho' many in the LOS know the facts through various channels -- and will not risk 15 years "eating red rice" to enlighten you. This problem doesn't exist for fascists.

[willyumiii]

Let's not go too far here now...

I like the corruption that benefits me!

If I get caught driving without a Thai driver's licence, I give the officet less than $6. usd...and go on my way with a letter saying I can not be fined again for the same infraction for 24 hours!

I like that

Here is what happens in California, where I am from if you violate the same law:

• Fines of up to $1,000, plus any additional court fees,
• Possible time in county jail,
• Probation, and
• Towing and impoundment of the car
• I like the Thai way much better, Thank you.

Seriously, I think most Thais feel this way.

Corruption that benifits them is o.k.

The system is tried and true...and comfortable for most.

[Briggsy]

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014

[paulchiangmai]

Let's not go too far here now...

I like the corruption that benefits me!

If I get caught driving without a Thai driver's licence, I give the officet less than $6. usd...and go on my way with a letter saying I can not be fined again for the same infraction for 24 hours!

I like that

Here is what happens in California, where I am from if you violate the same law:

• Fines of up to $1,000, plus any additional court fees,
• Possible time in county jail,
• Probation, and
• Towing and impoundment of the car
• I like the Thai way much better, Thank you.

Seriously, I think most Thais feel this way.

Corruption that benifits them is o.k.

The system is tried and true...and comfortable for most.

The difference being that there you would obey the laws of the land whether you agree with them or not, whereas here you and so many others are indifferent to the laws of the land. Did you say you came from California or Texas?