Family Values?

[dressedingreen]

I came to Thailand this year, with the intention of staying. I met a Thai woman about 4 months ago, and we've gotten along particularly well. In most ways she's an ideal companion and lover. Like most Thais, she's close to her family. I've met most of them, and feel comfortable with the general culture of the family. One brother, however, (the youngest, as it happens ... 35 years old) is immature and appears really very needy. On the two occasions I've met him he's stuck to my girlfriend like they're joined at the hip. I've watched as he's fiddled with her hair, held hands with her some way beyond what would be acceptable for brothers and sisters in the west, whispered to her in seperate rooms, and generally been very touchy-feely.

I've always regarded myself as very broad minded and open to the norms of other cultures. But I'm finding this oppressive and annoying. I've talked with her about it. She tells me she and her brother have always been close. When together, they often hold hands or walk with their arms around each other. People, she tells me, have mistaken them for boyfriend and girlfriend in the past. She is 39, BTW.

I've never been the jealous type. That doesn't mean I'm incapable of such an emotion. And maybe this is what's going on for me. They seem to form their own little exclusive space when they're together. The last time he was with us he wanted to go dancing. I had to go to Cambodia the next day, so I didn't feel like joining them. They went with two female friends of my girlfriend, and a male friend of the brother. My girlfriend returned at 3am, apparently when the nightclub closed. I was annoyed because she woke me, and annoyed that she was out til that time, even though it was with her brother and friends. She didn't drink (as she mostly doesn't) and seemed perfectly ok.

I'd like some feedback please, guys. I haven't been here for long enough to fully understand the Thai culture. Maybe this is normal. Maybe I'm taking it too seriously. I'm open to learning. So say what you feel.

Many thanks

[simon43]

Are you sure it is her brother and not her husband???

Simon

[dressedingreen]

Are you sure it is her brother and not her husband???

Simon

Yes!!!!

[Donz]

Well there peobaly really close, nothing wrong with it, but My gf and her sister are also very close, not as close as your gf and brother though.

Do you also have a problem her going out to pubs and clubs without you?

[dressedingreen]

Well there peobaly really close, nothing wrong with it, but My gf and her sister are also very close, not as close as your gf and brother though.

Do you also have a problem her going out to pubs and clubs without you?

No! But she's never asked to. So maybe I'd be tested if she did. So I guess I won't know until then. I'm still sorting through my feelings about this, hence the post in the hope of some cultural perspective.

Thanks for replying.

[simon43]

Are you sure it is her brother and not her husband???

Simon

Yes!!!!

[\quote]

OK, why are you sure that this is not her Thai boyfriend or husband?

Simon

[aughie]

Maybe the younger brother is all touch feely because he is gay.

[dressedingreen]

Are you sure it is her brother and not her husband???

Simon

Yes!!!!

[\quote]

OK, why are you sure that this is not her Thai boyfriend or husband?

Simon

The hoardes of photos of her with her brothers and sisters, including the offending brother, going back to when they were kids. The photos of her with her ex-husband, who doesn't look a bit like her brother. The fact that her son, who lives with her ex-husband, calls him 'daddy' and not her brother. The family gatherings where all her brothers and sisters (2 of each) come together, and the family resemblance.

[dressedingreen]

Maybe the younger brother is all touch feely because he is gay.

That is a very real possibility. And I've considered the point. Even my GF has suggested it may be the case. But since they're very close I'd have thought she would have been the one to have known for certain. Good point though. Thanks for raising that one.

[simon43]

Good answer....

Then maybe I agree with Aughie

Simon

[Mobi]

The number of so-called brothers who turn out to be boyfriends/husbands is legendary.

Think with your head, not your prick and check VERY VERY carefully.

They need your money, and will go to great lengths to hide the truth from you.

[Donz]

Maybe the younger brother is all touch feely because he is gay.

Yes I would say thats when it looks like.

Probaly the correct answer here.

[dressedingreen]

The number of so-called brothers who turn out to be boyfriends/husbands is legendary.

Think with your head, not your prick and check VERY VERY carefully.

They need your money, and will go to great lengths to hide the truth from you.

I have to ask myself if a Thai man would be prepared to let his wife/GF live with and sleep with a stranger for 4 months (and indefinitely in the future) and not get a dime out of it (as would be the case with me). She's a teacher, and therefore has her own income. All I pay for is the rent on my apartment. I don't give her money, and she doesn't ask for any. I have a year's contract in Indonesia coming up in 5 weeks time. She's due to come with me. So any husband/BF is going to be waiting a long time for any money. I never think with my prick ... ever!

[Donz]

People seem to quickly jump to the conclusion that your Thai Gf is cheating on you etc. Its the norm around here.

I wonder how many people trust there wifes/gf in this forum.

Would be a interesting stat

[Mobi]

I hope you are right - and no doubt you are.

there's an old English expression: "Where there's muck there's brass"

A Thai version of this could be: "Where there's a farang there's money"

Teachers don't earn much, and I can assure you Thais are prepared to invest in a great deal of time to eventually get what they want. They can be very patient.

Just keep your eyes open, look for any signs of anything untowards, and good luck.

[GuestHouse]

I have to ask myself if a Thai man would be prepared to let his wife/GF live with and sleep with a stranger for 4 months

The answer is, many would.

(and indefinitely in the future)

Or at least until they've bled you dry / got everything they wanted from you

and not get a dime out of it (as would be the case with me).

You are perhaps over confident in the control you have over your spending.

She's a teacher, and therefore has her own income.

If she get's you she'll have two incomes.

All I pay for is the rent on my apartment.

And free accommodation into the bargain

I don't give her money, and she doesn't ask for any.

But when you do it will seem like your idea.

I have a year's contract in Indonesia coming up in 5 weeks time. She's due to come with me. So any husband/BF is going to be waiting a long time for any money.

Patience is a Thai virtue, a one year wait for more money that he could dream of earning in ten years - and not having to do anything for it - may well be worth it.

I never think with my prick ... ever!

Actions speak louder than words.

[roguegirl]

And why am I not surprise that with all that, Farangs still allow themselves to be "cheated" dry...

[mittheimp]

don't rule anything out!

You ever read the book Angels and Insects?

[Donz]

I think you all too paranoid hahahaha

And guesthouse many would? I doubt it on that one. Well I guess it depends on what you call many. I say most dont

[the swagman]

There are good ones there are bad ones.

There are virtuous ones there are non virtuous ones.

It happens everywhere.

If the relationship is good and honest, there is no need to doubt. If the relationship has not yet reached that point, don't be paranoid, look and learn.

[dressedingreen]

There are good ones there are bad ones.

There are virtuous ones there are non virtuous ones.

It happens everywhere.

If the relationship is good and honest, there is no need to doubt. If the relationship has not yet reached that point, don't be paranoid, look and learn.

Well thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate them. I was hoping someone with experience of Thai family relationships would chip in with some background to the way siblings are. But I guess that's as varied as in any other culture. For those who think I'm being duped ... only time will tell. I keep my money in an offshore account and I will never be buying property here. So nothing for any Thai national to slip away with. I'm very sensitive to what goes on around me. But that doesn't mean I'm invulnerable. None of us are. In the end, what's the point of spending the rest of one's life monitoring everything our wives/girlfriends do? We stand just as much of a chance getting fried by some moneygrabber from our own countries. And THEY know how to work the law in their own favor. So I'm happy I'm ultimately less vulnerable here, or elsewhere in the area where the reach of western lawyers is limited. I plan to stay away from these shores for a number of years when I fly out to Jakata next month. So on the unlikely offchance that someone really IS working a highly elaborate scam ... their patience will be severely tested. In the meantime they still have to pay for their own accommodation and living expenses for many years to come.

Ultimately, I guess it's up to the individual how much energy they spend on paranoia. What's the point in having a relationship at all if we doubt its validity? And if we seriously doubt its validity, perhaps we should simply get out of it. That's always been my philosophy. And I'll do it again here if I have good reason to.

One more thing that just came back to me. My GF has had debts since I first met her. What with the usual demands of family and, as someone said here, teachers not being that well paid (about 10,000 baht a month). The debts amount to about $1000. I offered to pay them off for her to relieve the pressure some weeks ago. She politely refused. For the hardened sceptics here, no ... that didn't put me off my guard. I'd be a 5% sceptic in Utopia. I distrust first, and wait to be proved wrong. But it's a step in the right direction. Or maybe I really am naive

[jing jing]

There are good ones there are bad ones.

There are virtuous ones there are non virtuous ones.

It happens everywhere.

If the relationship is good and honest, there is no need to doubt. If the relationship has not yet reached that point, don't be paranoid, look and learn.

...One more thing that just came back to me. My GF has had debts since I first met her. What with the usual demands of family and, as someone said here, teachers not being that well paid (about 10,000 baht a month). The debts amount to about $1000. I offered to pay them off for her to relieve the pressure some weeks ago. She politely refused. For the hardened sceptics here, no ... that didn't put me off my guard. I'd be a 5% sceptic in Utopia. I distrust first, and wait to be proved wrong. But it's a step in the right direction. Or maybe I really am naive

[hardened skeptic]

A step in the right direction or just a well calculated step?

At this point I wouldn't lay odds against you paying off that loan... sooner rather than later.

[/hardened skeptic]

That relationship with the "brother" raises a large red flag for me, even if he really is her brother. In my experience, male and female family members don't normally show much public affection for each other in Thai culture. What you described in the OP sounds very unusual indeed.

[VanZam]

The first slice thought I had after reading the OP was that it was either her thai BF or husband.

I would want to see some ID cards before taking any other action.

As for the loan... well the OP has already offered to pay them off, she knows now that with the right amount of pressure she can get money if she needs to. If I were to pay off any loan I would want to see some sort of proof first.

In saying all that, I dont think i would write her off without all the facts, but you taking her out of the country after 4 months sounds very fast, and also very typical of people I treat on a daily basis.

Good luck.

[Donz]

There are good ones there are bad ones.

There are virtuous ones there are non virtuous ones.

It happens everywhere.

If the relationship is good and honest, there is no need to doubt. If the relationship has not yet reached that point, don't be paranoid, look and learn.

There are good thai's??

I thought my gf was the only one

[dressedingreen]

The first slice thought I had after reading the OP was that it was either her thai BF or husband.

I would want to see some ID cards before taking any other action.

As for the loan... well the OP has already offered to pay them off, she knows now that with the right amount of pressure she can get money if she needs to. If I were to pay off any loan I would want to see some sort of proof first.

In saying all that, I dont think i would write her off without all the facts, but you taking her out of the country after 4 months sounds very fast, and also very typical of people I treat on a daily basis.

Good luck.

I've seen HER ID card. Haven't asked to see her brother's. That's one I'll put on file. Good idea. Thanks for that. My offer to pay off her debts came with no obvious pressure from her. And I only found out she had debts through constant pushing herto talk about her finances. Once again, we can assume very elaborate and well-planned scam here. But while I would never rule out even a feint possibility, I have to lead my life based on probabilities. To consider every possible scam that might happen to us each day would lead to mental collapse, or at least staying in our home countries and never going out.

As for taking her out of the country ... it will be about 5 months by the time it actually happens. The alternative is I don't see her for almost a year. And few relationships will survive that. I can stay here if I choose. I have job offers here, but prefer to travel. It's in my blood. Anyway ... I've never been to Indonesia

The 'treating every day' sounds interesting. What is it you do? Counsel lovesick expats?? My first degree is in psychology, and I ran a psychotherapy and counselling practice in the USA, and in the UK, for a number of years. I'm sure you'll have a deal of clients in Thailand

Best wishes

[dressedingreen]

[hardened skeptic]

A step in the right direction or just a well calculated step?

Could be either. Only time and weight of evidence will tell.

At this point I wouldn't lay odds against you paying off that loan... sooner rather than later.

[/hardened skeptic]

I don't doubt that's right. It's small beer for me (large for her). But if it proves to be a scam in the end, my losses will be minimal. I'll want evidence of the various elements of the debt before I part with a bean. And I'll only pay the organisations that are owed money (mobile phone company, school loan, bank), and only then after seeing documents supporting same. She will get no direct money for it. Anything she can't support with documentation, and doesn't go to the organisation that's owed money, won't get paid.

That relationship with the "brother" raises a large red flag for me, even if he really is her brother. In my experience, male and female family members don't normally show much public affection for each other in Thai culture. What you described in the OP sounds very unusual indeed.

Well really, this is the key issue. I'm sure he's really her brother. There's a real possibility he's gay. That's come up before in conversations. But, as I said in an earlier reply, if they're that close I'm surprised she doesn't KNOW if he's gay or not. I've met the extended family, with the brother and other siblings in attendance. They have a small farm out Chonburi way. Look like a typical Thai family unit. Parents, 5 siblings, grandchildren. 3 siblings married. My GF WAS married until 2 years ago. Standard story ... ex-husband prone to women, cursing, occasional violence and getting his own way. So she and her (THE) brother unmarried. I understand he's 30 now. I've made it clear to her I find him a nuisance (I'm not one for beating around the bush).

[Catpian Slackbladder]

Regarding the OP, I have been with my gf for almost 2 years now and been living in LOS for 6 months. In all this time I have never met her brother, never seen her call him and she has only spoken about him twice to me when he was in trouble with the police up country and needed money (which she refused!).

Even with extended family members, I have never witnessed a "closeness" that you describe occurs.

[grapetable]

hardened sceptics........do you guys (gals) trust anyone? You are either paranoid or been duped several times.

On the surface of info provided I would think the OP is ok. Sure be vigilant but not at the expense of contentment.

there are many Thai's who are trust worthy regardless of their wealth or lack of it.

[dressedingreen]

hardened sceptics........do you guys (gals) trust anyone? You are either paranoid or been duped several times.

On the surface of info provided I would think the OP is ok. Sure be vigilant but not at the expense of contentment.

there are many Thai's who are trust worthy regardless of their wealth or lack of it.

Thanks for that. It's nice to have the occasional positive response. I'm ultimately optimistic, but will retain a healthy curiosity, and will protect myself whenever I feel it's necessary. That has nothing to do with Thai culture. I'd do that anywhere.

[Maigo6]

You will be ok, just do what you would do in any other country and any other person you have just met.

One thing though, don't worry about Thai's cheating you in Thailand, it will be more wise to take great caution against your fellow Farangs.

The ones that " Are having money sent over next week ". Give them a wide berth, in general Thais are cool, Farangs will cheat you at the drop of a hat given the chance.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Maigo6