Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[JohnThailandJohn]

Here is an interesting news report with some new discrepancies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

The main gist of the article is that almost nothing was investigated and Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha knows next to nothing about the case.

I can understand why the RTP would want to claim no investigation inside AC Bar. If they said an investigation occurred, they would need to answer questions about it. However, some of the points Cherdpong expressed ignorance about were quite unbelievable.

Is the prosecution trying deliberately to lose? If so, has a deal been struck (maybe even with the Burmese kids themselves) to ensure they are found not guilty if they promise to keep what they know to themselves? Any other possibilities?

Just an FYI, that site is blocked in Thailand. You can probably copy and paste a paragraph within the story and do a google search to find another site which ran the same story.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I would love to know honestly if this was your daughter or son murdered in these circumstances would you still be happy with the RTP case!

My guess is my statement would be right in line with that of the actual victims who have expressed confidence in the evidence and case and believe the right people are on trial and like them would encourage people to let the case play out in court.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Courtroom at Koh Tao Backpacker Murder Trial Hears of More Thai Police Blunders

Charlie Campbell

Police investigating the murder of a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach have revealed that they didn’t check key CCTV cameras — the latest troubling admission in a case deemed an acid test for Thailand’s justice system.

Burmese migrant workers Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin, both 22, are currently on trial for the murder of David Miller, 24, and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai Gulf island of Koh Tao.

The tourists’ bodies were discovered on Sept. 15 last year by rocks on Koh Tao’s popular Sairee Beach.

Both defendants deny the allegations, claiming they are scapegoats who were tortured into confessing by police seeking to safeguard the coral-fringed island’s vital tourism industry. Police deny any mistreatment.

Human-rights groups have also raised concerns that the defendants are being railroaded because of their vulnerable status as migrant workers.

Friday marked two-thirds of the way through the 18-day trial, which is split into three equal parts on Koh Tao’s neighboring island of Koh Samui, and proceedings so far have offered little to suggest that Thailand’s reputation for fumbling justice is undeserved.

Read more: http://time.com/3970699/thailand-koh-tao-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-latest/

[JohnThailandJohn]

I would love to know honestly if this was your daughter or son murdered in these circumstances would you still be happy with the RTP case!

My guess is my statement would be right in line with that of the actual victim's families who have expressed confidence in the evidence and case and believe the right people are on trial and like them would encourage people to let the case play out in court.

Why have to speculate about me when you have the actual families who have released multiple statements.

Edited July 24, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[Nigeone]

Here is an interesting news report with some new discrepancies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

The main gist of the article is that almost nothing was investigated and Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha knows next to nothing about the case.

I can understand why the RTP would want to claim no investigation inside AC Bar. If they said an investigation occurred, they would need to answer questions about it. However, some of the points Cherdpong expressed ignorance about were quite unbelievable.

Is the prosecution trying deliberately to lose? If so, has a deal been struck (maybe even with the Burmese kids themselves) to ensure they are found not guilty if they promise to keep what they know to themselves? Any other possibilities?

Mmmm don't know what I think about you suggest but it's obviously a possibility. My feeling is at this stage it's just incompetence and they didn't allow for the media and interest from social media. Normally they would have got a free ride. Also it's not easy to lie and cover up something like this as you have to be very clever and cover every angle and the RTP are neither clever or able to successfully follow this through. Remember they have to completely invent a scenario and omit anyone they need to and still arrive at a conclusion framing the B2 and having the necessary evidence. Up to now they haven't shown any findings to link the B2.

Did you read the comments below.quote.

Burmese are easy targets and are routinely fitted up. I live in Bangkok hundreds of miles away and know the murderers name. I'm not writing it here but he is the son of a local senior official. He is no longer on the island.

[Nigeone]

I would love to know honestly if this was your daughter or son murdered in these circumstances would you still be happy with the RTP case!

My guess is my statement would be right in line with that of the actual victim's families who have expressed confidence in the evidence and case and believe the right people are on trial and like them would encourage people to let the case play out in court.

Why have to speculate about me when you have the actual families who have released multiple statements.

Oh that old chestnut again.... Oh now it's Multiple statements! You sure?.And don't bother posting links etc as I would far rather you post links disproving my 1 to 16 questions I asked.

And once again I would call in to question your complete lack of emotion with regards to this issue. Slightly worrying as any sane honest adult would react with empathy with regards the possible loss in these circumstances of there son or daughter. You are professional aren't you ! But so am I !

[JLCrab]

Police handling in spotlight again at trial

By Michael Sainsbury | Friday, 24 July 2015

Under cross-examination yesterday, Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, a senior investigating police officer, told judges that he had not looked into the rumour that Ms Witheridge had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth just hours before she was killed, according to a source present at yesterday’s hearing.

While Col Cherdpong admitted that he had heard about Ms Witheridge’s altercation with “Dodo” Toovichien, the son of Koh Tao’s wealthiest man and effectively the island chief, he said that neither he nor his officers actively followed up that line of enquiry.

...

Dodo, who had the altercation with Ms Witheridge, was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on September 15. (JLC's italics)

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/15642-police-handling-in-spotlight-again-at-trial.html

Edited July 25, 2015 by JLCrab

[GOLDBUGGY]

Reading through past post I can't but wonder what all this is about and some Victory Parade. I mean before the discovery that the DNA can be retested. So maybe better we start there to get that out of the way.

I have claimed from the start that I hoped that the courts would allow this DNA to be retested. I still feel the same today. I like everyone else was confused with reports saying it was lost, or used up, or eaten by a snake. But now that it can be retested I think that is fine. All I added to this was to be careful for what you ask for as you might get it.

If these test do come back negative, like the first ones, then the gig is up. It is game over. There is no turning back after this point, The accused chances of a successful victory at trial, and even appeal, I would think would be very little. So I will wait and see and see if these tests actually take place. If they are guilty it would be easier to try and poke holes in the Prosecutions DNA Evidence then to have you own which agrees with his.

Someone pointed out that if the defense discovered through DNA that they did do it, they wouldn't have to show this in court. Perhaps at the very beginning if they conducted there own DNA Independent Test he may be right. I am not sure. But since the Defense had to appeal to the court to allow this, and this was granted, then I would think the court would want to see the results regardless. But again I am not sure.

[BritTim]

Here is an interesting news report with some new discrepancies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

The main gist of the article is that almost nothing was investigated and Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha knows next to nothing about the case.

I can understand why the RTP would want to claim no investigation inside AC Bar. If they said an investigation occurred, they would need to answer questions about it. However, some of the points Cherdpong expressed ignorance about were quite unbelievable.

Is the prosecution trying deliberately to lose? If so, has a deal been struck (maybe even with the Burmese kids themselves) to ensure they are found not guilty if they promise to keep what they know to themselves? Any other possibilities?

Just an FYI, that site is blocked in Thailand. You can probably copy and paste a paragraph within the story and do a google search to find another site which ran the same story.

The story is by Richard Shears and exclusive to the Daily Mail.

Some snippets:

Gaping holes in the investigation into the murders of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand have forced a judge to doubt it will ever reach a ‘conclusive outcome’.

...

Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.

...

He told the court that he did not know who the garden hoe that police had previously suggested was used to kill the pair belonged to.

...

The officer did also not know who had reported the discovery of the bodies, because the police had not logged the name of the caller.

There is much more. It is worth trying the link. The Thailand firewall is not 100%. If it is indeed blocked, find a web proxy and copy the URL into it.

[Wadan]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

[Nigeone]

Reading through past post I can't but wonder what all this is about and some Victory Parade. I mean before the discovery that the DNA can be retested. So maybe better we start there to get that out of the way.

I have claimed from the start that I hoped that the courts would allow this DNA to be retested. I still feel the same today. I like everyone else was confused with reports saying it was lost, or used up, or eaten by a snake. But now that it can be retested I think that is fine. All I added to this was to be careful for what you ask for as you might get it.

If these test do come back negative, like the first ones, then the gig is up. It is game over. There is no turning back after this point, The accused chances of a successful victory at trial, and even appeal, I would think would be very little. So I will wait and see and see if these tests actually take place. If they are guilty it would be easier to try and poke holes in the Prosecutions DNA Evidence then to have you own which agrees with his.

Someone pointed out that if the defense discovered through DNA that they did do it, they wouldn't have to show this in court. Perhaps at the very beginning if they conducted there own DNA Independent Test he may be right. I am not sure. But since the Defense had to appeal to the court to allow this, and this was granted, then I would think the court would want to see the results regardless. But again I am not sure.

That's a rational and relevant post and your right it would be good to,get the results of DNA.

Unfortunately whatever side of the fence you sit on its plainly obvious that the DNA testing cannot be verified as being collected ,stored and examined properly as right from the start the crime scene was compromised. From not keeping it sterile to incorrect taking of samples. We don't know about all the other procedures including storage,correct testing and catalogue of the samples and a paper trail is said samples. This is not sitting on either fence just a fact and if the only evidence is DNA I don't think that's anyway enough for a correct judgement. As I've said DNA will not prove murder in this case just at worst an accessory or being there. The fact it's compromised would mean it wouldn't even be admissible in a civilised worlds court system.

I'm not having a go just pointing out this would still leave as many questions as answers

[JohnThailandJohn]

Here is an interesting news report with some new discrepancies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

The main gist of the article is that almost nothing was investigated and Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha knows next to nothing about the case.

I can understand why the RTP would want to claim no investigation inside AC Bar. If they said an investigation occurred, they would need to answer questions about it. However, some of the points Cherdpong expressed ignorance about were quite unbelievable.

Is the prosecution trying deliberately to lose? If so, has a deal been struck (maybe even with the Burmese kids themselves) to ensure they are found not guilty if they promise to keep what they know to themselves? Any other possibilities?

Just an FYI, that site is blocked in Thailand. You can probably copy and paste a paragraph within the story and do a google search to find another site which ran the same story.

The story is by Richard Shears and exclusive to the Daily Mail.

Some snippets:

Gaping holes in the investigation into the murders of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand have forced a judge to doubt it will ever reach a ‘conclusive outcome’.

...

Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.

...

He told the court that he did not know who the garden hoe that police had previously suggested was used to kill the pair belonged to.

...

The officer did also not know who had reported the discovery of the bodies, because the police had not logged the name of the caller.

There is much more. It is worth trying the link. The Thailand firewall is not 100%. If it is indeed blocked, find a web proxy and copy the URL into it.

I will read it later, I have a VPN but screwing up right now and need a restart. Not to get off topic but yea interesting about blocking sites. The other day I went to go to Drummond's site and it was blocked and then the next day it wasn't and today it is again.

Edit: But don't post his links here as they don't allow it be he Thailand banned or not.

Edited July 25, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[boomerangutang]

I just waisted an hr or more of my life wading through the garbage on the last 20 pages looking for facts and rational discussion. If you think you are going to get anything like that her you are in for a disapointment. Most of these #@*+s just want spew the same crap over and over again, its like a broken record. They are unaware that they look like 3 year olds. This case means a lot to most ex pats who live here and I am sure to the freinds and families of the victims. It would be nice if they kept their silly opinons and speculations to themselves.

Like with porn: if you don't want to look at a pretty tit with a nipple, don't look at it.

Here's one of the prime reasons there are so many posts: We, the 99% of posters who clearly see a frame-up, are not going to fade away in to the silent shadows, as RTP + Headman's people want (expected) us to do.

If we see a blatant frame-up coupled with shielding (albeit bungled) of the rich kid who likely did the crime, we're going to speak up, and keep speaking up, louder and louder as the RTP + prosecution dig themselves deeper in the muck of their own nefarious plans. Should we feel sorry for the RTP, now that their frame-up / cover-up is unraveling? ....while the real criminals are prancing around, free as hornets.

[boomerangutang]

As always a lot of speculations on TV and the last 20 pages doesnt seem to come up with much from the court hearings today.

But I would like to focus on this from our police witness :

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. "

An argument with a thai youth on the night . Anyone have more on this , I'm sure we have discussed it before. And is it only rumours ?

This will be the senior police officer who has been running this case and made an utter shambles of it.

The senior policeman who for some bizarre reason took over the case when the previous officer was looking at the owner of the bars son where the alleged argument took place as the prime suspect.

Are we meant to believe a single word this incompetent fool says?

Well, if he's an incompetent fool, he's a very rich (nearly half a billion baht) and well-connected incompetent fool. How does a man amass 350+ million baht on a policeman's salary? Hmmmm, maybe he sells fried crickets on the sidewalk after his shift is over.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

I always shake my head when I read something like "These Poor Boys!" "Take a look at them!" "They couldn't hurt a flea"!

Now let me point out a "Fact" to you all.

Myanmar, and where these so called "Innocent Boys" come from, has the Highest Murder Rate in all of Asia. All of Asia! The Myanmar Murder Rate is triple what it is in Thailand. Meaning by population for every 1 Murder in Thailand, there are 3 Murders in Myanmar. Thailand's Murder Rate is only slightly higher than the USA. But no small wonder they look at Myanmar Workers first when their is a murder committed nearby.

So could they commit murder? You bet your bottom dollar they could! And there own Government Statistics proves that and they can back that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Mindless irrelevant assumption... Now all you need is your mentor JtJ to (like this) the ridiculous. The way you two lick each other's nut sacks, I wouldnt be surprised that you two share a girlfriend instead of getting your own.

[boomerangutang]

does anyone have a pic of the running man and No9 footballer they could post or pm me for comparison ?

in the second video the number 9 footballer can be seen with a characteristic swagger at 0.07 - 0.13 seconds in the video...i have seen a version of this CCTV where he is walking into the distance for a further few seconds when it was first released last year which gives a better view of his gait but i cannot find it online....maybe someone else has kept links to these videos from last year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q6NKlj8daI

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

[GOLDBUGGY]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

[boomerangutang]

Edit: By the way, it was also under Panya that Mon was cleared.

JTJ. Imagine a corporation's top execs (Bkk manipulators, including PM and top cop). The top manager for the initial investigative team (Panya) was not doing his job according to the parameters set out by the top execs. He was following evidence to where it led (to Mon and Nomsod) instead of quickly indicting impoverished powerless migrants. He was told to do it quickly. He started doing it (reluctantly eliminating Mon as a prime suspect), but it was not quick enough for top execs. So the chief cop in Bkk yanked Panya off, and put himself in charge. All the rest is the sad history of cover-up and shielding the Headman's people.

Also; the was mega pressure from TAT and tourist industry to indict someone. For obvious reasons, the H's people were untouchable. Big money can do a lot of magical things in Thailand. TAT thought (mistakenly) that tourists were clamoring for indictments in order to feel safe enough to return to the island to spend lots of money. Au contraire, tourists want rapists and murderers taken out of the public domain. If it takes some time to get it right, that's ok. Thai officials don't understand that.

The thing about prior promotion plans is bunk. Promotions go on all the time among uniformed Thai officials. If a man is leading a team on an important crime investigation, there's only one reason he's going to get yanked off the job - if his higher ups don't like how he's doing his job. Any other explanation is pissing in the wind.

[thailandchilli]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

[JLCrab]

< snip >

Well, if he's an incompetent fool, he's a very rich (nearly half a billion baht) and well-connected incompetent fool. How does a man amass 350+ million baht on a policeman's salary? Hmmmm, maybe he sells fried crickets on the sidewalk after his shift is over.

The Cherdpong family controls or has large positions in multiple Thai Public corporations.

[StealthEnergiser]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Good find , is that a football shirt being worn by bar staff it looks the same design as number 9 that shook davids hand . Did the police investigate this I doubt it.

[alfalfa19]

is "dodo" the same person as numbnuts, the one seen running in the video?

[Rykbanlor]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

GB, surely you don't take what you are typing seriously? You are saying the Chief investigator on this case should not know:

1: Who collected the DNA samples

2: Who called in the body discovery

3: Whether he expected the attackers clothes to be bloodstained

4: Who the owner of the hoe - the murder weapon - who it belonged to.

5: The officer who interviewed headman's son

6: Whether the headman's son was even interviewed properly

Furthermore, you think it's excusable that this same chief investigator:

1: Did not bother to investigate an altercation at the AC bar, allegedly involving the headmans son and possibly Hannah

2: Suspects the victims last know whereabouts was AC bar but did not investigate there either, and has not pursued or shown footage of CCTV with them leaving

3: Didn't bother to check CCTV footage of the pier as they "didn't think" a suspect would leave that way

4: Didn't bother to investigate reports of a small boat leaving the island in the early morning

5: Doesn't know where the DNA samples collected from the headmans son are, nor does he know who has them - essentilay lost then - and only Police testimony that they were not a match

But Goldbuggy, you think its ok for the lead investigator to be this ignorant. You said it's not his job to know these things, its his job to investigate. Well guess what, he neither knew, nor investigated.

Why, oh Why are you defending them? Can't you see the gross incompetence and lies?

Read this article, and try spinning it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

Oh, right, I know - it is a misunderstanding yes? Or lost in translation yes? Or is this the level of Policing you find acceptable?

[Rykbanlor]

is "dodo" the same person as numbnuts, the one seen running in the video?

Yes, Dodo, or Nomsod. The one who we saw his televised DNA show, and were told he was no match, and then discovered in court yesterday that actually, the report of his DNA test was never recieved - the lead investigator admitted that, and furthermore that he did not know where the samples are.

The police also well aware of rumours that an altercation took place involving him at the AC bar, but they didn't think it was worth following up.

[Heisenbergg]

With criminal defamation laws here in Thailand, I can't imagine a high ranking cop accusing a hiso Thai of killing and raping tourists he'd need some strong evidence or he'd be out of a job.

[boomerangutang]

Nobody would be this silly. Be like denying a video of somebody that shows them in Bangkok at the time of the murders. You'd have to come up with comical ways of denying it like furniture looks different in video frames or the person in the video moves his arms when he walks just like a person on a video on the island moves his arms when he walks too so they must be the same guy or saying time stamps are forged or how the guy planned to go to the island to murder & rape and snuck out his window so the video wouldn't capture him and then got on a plane using a fake ID .... Nobody would be this silly, would they????

>>> it's been shown that the 9:30 am CCTV of NS in Bkk, even if it's not faked, is moot. The crime wrapped up at 5 am, and it's been shown that a person in a hurry could get to Bkk in roughly 4. Airplanes are quite fast, JTJ.

What we'd like to see is unaltered video of when NS entered the lobby in Bkk (if it's any time during the 15 hours before 8 am Monday, then I'm wrong, and I will apologize to NS or anyone else who's offended).

More important, we'd like to see flight manifests and entry/exit CCTV of Monday morning flights going to Bkk from Samui and Chompun. My educated guess: we'll never see them. P.S. we also want to see phone records from that morning FROM THE CORPORATE SOURCES, NOT FROM RTP - who have proven to be completely untrustworthy in this case.

The prosecution said they have phone records of that morning (just Bkk? or also KT?). That's the first mention of phone records by authorities. I also venture that we (concerned observers seeking truth & justice) will never see phone records from that morning.

Another of the dozens of things we'll never hear about: Where does Mon stay, in relation to the crime scene? At the g.h. he manages? Are there any folks who were rooming near where he stays? Early monday morning the 15th, there should have been a lot of commotion in and around where Mon stays. Anyone hear anything odd? My guess is, whether or not Mon was actively involved with the crime, that lots of drama took place in NS's uncle's room. Mr. Fix-it Mon immediately switched to high gear, and what ensued is what we're trying to unravel - with no help from the RTP.

[Fat Haggis]

I do hope the Defence have the smoking gun they implied they had. So far it looks like the prosecution is getting the upper hand

You must be following a different trial on a different planet then!!

[thailandchilli]

Thanks RTP for allowing us, the ignorant general public, to see a few seconds of CCTV from that night. No matter about the hundreds of hours from the 100 functioning (of 300 total) CCTV cameras in the immediate region of the crime. All of which your inspectors inspected, we assume. Oh sorry, almost forgot, there is CCTV of inside the bar and of a boat leaving the beach an hour after the crime .....which you, at RTP, deemed so unimportant - as not worth even viewing. AleG, Jdinasia, the Headman, and the PM want to thank you for doing such an exemplary job. Indeed, the PM will probably want to personally give you promotions (with a grin and a pat on the back), as he has with other top brass in this case who have been doing 'a perfect investigation' (his words).

Oh the elusive cctv that wasn't checked. Here's another that we've not been privy too.

The RTP made a statement of stating that there were no signs on Hannah or David being followed into the AC bar. Completely irrelevant. The rumours are it took place inside the AC bar and so that is the cctv that is relevant. Not only inside the bar but what is also missing is the cctv of people leaving the AC bar.

Its been indicated by some that they both left together from the back entrance that leads to the beach. How do we know that, perhaps they left again the way they entered. I'd like to see the whole cctv of that night until every single person has left the bar. The RTP obviously have it and are not showing it. It would identify everyone that was in there and who left that way.

Here's the last known pic of David inside the AC bar that night, as someone else pointed out on another forum, there's no sign of Hannah, but there are some familiar faces in there.

The RTP have admitted that they've not followed up the rumours of the altercation in the AC bar and in my opinion thats either negligence of the highest order or a clear indication of a coverup.

Good find , is that a football shirt being worn by bar staff it looks the same design as number 9 that shook davids hand . Did the police investigate this I doubt it.

Yep looks like it, we can also see shark tooth man in the photo so he was there that night, we also know he has "allegations" against him for rape from a HiSo Thai in a facebook post

[DM07]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about!

So I suggest, you either go back to Zero and educate yourself about so many things you obviously are clueless about or you stop posting!

The fact, that one of the most evil defenders of the Force likes your postings, which are full of factual mistakes, is extremely telling!

On top of that, you are a racist!

Even if it were true, that Myanmar has the highest number of murders per capita in the whole universe, wouldn't give anyone the right, to assume, the B2 are murderous thugs and it would not make them one bit more likely to be guilty, because - wait for it- there is no such thing as "the Burmese"! They are millions of different people, with different mindsets!

So far, there is NO evidence, they did it!

The only thing that exists, is a prosecution case, that is flawed beyond believe and a bunch conflicting testimony and soundbites from idiotic cops!

Get a life!

[boomerangutang]

I always shake my head when I read something like "These Poor Boys!" "Take a look at them!" "They couldn't hurt a flea"!

Now let me point out a "Fact" to you all.

Myanmar, and where these so called "Innocent Boys" come from, has the Highest Murder Rate in all of Asia. All of Asia! The Myanmar Murder Rate is triple what it is in Thailand. Meaning by population for every 1 Murder in Thailand, there are 3 Murders in Myanmar. Thailand's Murder Rate is only slightly higher than the USA. But no small wonder they look at Myanmar Workers first when their is a murder committed nearby.

So could they commit murder? You bet your bottom dollar they could! And there own Government Statistics proves that and they can back that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Those numbers probably include internal armed conflicts. As regards, the number of tourists killed in Burma annually, the number is close to zero. What's the # of tourists killed in Thailand annually? Probably dozens. Just on one little island of KT, it's about 1 per month average. ....and that's not even mentioning Pattaya.