Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[catsanddogs]

If it is true that police have stated to the judges that Hannah's and davids clothes were neatly stacked and it looked like they may have had sex .

Also the hoe did not look like it had blood on it when forensics tested it going by a youtube.

There is a big possibility a person took the photos of the scattered clothes and bloody hoe and put them online before the crime scene was inspected by forensics.

It looks like the crime scene inspected by forensics had a clean hoe and neatly stacked clothes I may be wrong but it looks that way to me.

I think people may have been trying to stop this from coming out possibly certain people have knowledge on this forum but i have no idea.

It makes me wonder if the defence and andy hall have actually seen the photo's of scattered clothing and a bloody hoe I think they would have .

This doesn't look good and makes people more suspicious of this whole trial and some posters.

I would imagine Andy has seen all photos available. He's clearly no fool - like the majority of posters on here. Would seem that the stage was set by someone - more than one most likely. What an utter mess for the families on top of what they have been through. It will take much strength for them to get through this.

[Jockey]

Police in Thailand asked their witness to lie and say he seen the whole crime. And the 75 YO security guard whent to court and told the judge what the police wanted him to do. now he is missing...... So thats what we are dealing with...No evidence need be present. Theycan manufactur their own well enough. This was attempted murder that carries a 20 year sentance in Thailand

Are you sure about this statement you have made? Who is this 75 year old security guard that is missing?

[berybert]

Let us ALSO not forget that a week ago the

Head Surat Thani Prosecutor was murdered in his home.

The person with the most knowledge of the evidence and it's provenance died with his throat slashed, sitting in a chair in his home.

Ostensibly a robbery gone wrong, but oh so convenient for this case, if you want to direct a verdict based on fear and intimidation on all levels... Not just scaring off of a translator....

But that (unrelated though it is) doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists and would only benefit the 2 Burmese defendants....

Funny isn't that If you asked the CT's "do you think the DNA will go missing once the trial starts" most would say "yes"

So that is one conspiracy you will need to cross off your list.

jdinasia just a thought, as someone who considers the Burmese to be guilty why have you yet to comment on the trial.

I thought you would be banging on about what a great job the RTP were doing, yet you have made no comment on the trial.

We are now hearing about these witnesses you told us would prove the Burmese did it. So far none of them have gave the prosecution the thumbs up. Is the whole of the prosecution witness team part of the CT ?

[bamukloy]

Any trial... No matter what the system, has to demonstrate rational thought and deduction as well as an orderly scientific procedure

It seems that many on this thread don't grasp this and feel that by arguing about evidence and theories of what might have happened, they are somehow participating in the debate... This is incorrect and they are in fact just clouding the real issues... They are behaving just like the Thai authorities and helping them to get away with a tragic farce masquerading as justice

Rational thought and deduction hey?

I guess that could explain how people who are on pretty ordinary salaries come to be multi millionaires, of what is commonly known as "unusual wealth"

But,yeah, Its because they are stock market geniuses, right?

Do wake up old boy, or if you happened to be nestled in your farang utopia..then go back to sleep and save us!!

[berybert]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

They could well be guilty. There could actually be some evidence of their guilt. After 3 days we have yet to see anything linking them to the crime.

You do know most Thai's believe the Burmese to be innocent. So what do you call the Thai's that are bashing their very own RTP ?

That is going to take you a while to work out.

Just so you are aware if this trial was taking place anywhere else in the world the people who as you say are bashing the Thais, or as any normal person would say bashing a joke of an investigation, those people would be bashing what ever country in the world it was taking place in.

[berybert]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

[berybert]

As for the prospect of even one of these guys pulling off this crime...

Not wanting to be crude, but if a male victim was laying on top of a female victim, in a certain act, then even if one midget sneaks up from behind them with a hoe..

well...it doesnt take much imagination. A very long,heavy instrument with a very long and wide swinging ark...as the first blow..

As i have said, i havent got a horse in this race, but im suprised that the "tiny feeble asian against a big westerner" crowd cant think outside of the

box,

Or at least cant think of scenarios outside of their own superiorority complexes.

I can think outside the box. So here goes, if a tiny Asian crept up behind a much bigger man with a garden hoe and hit him with it............ I think the man who had been hit would have been smashed to pieces on the back of his head. Now you think outside of your box and tell me how many cuts did the big man who was laying down have on the back of his head ?

[catsanddogs]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

Might be wrong but I thought there was a cctv still of Maung Maung buying the fags.

[KamalaRider]

It is not the just the two Burmese on trial here but The whole Thai judicial system and the RTP...

The problem is, like children, they don't care about the consequences, they only care about being caught with their hands in the cookie jar and to avoid the immediate shame.

[berybert]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

Might be wrong but I thought there was a cctv still of Maung Maung buying the fags.

There maybe. But I don't recall. If there is I am sure someone can post it.

Not sure a still would be good enough to show a small packet of cigs. Or even if they bought a full packet.

Most poor people buy their fags in 1's.

Did they buy a full pack ? If they were on the beach from 1am to after the murder I am sure the two/three of them would have smoked the full pack and not just a few.

Do people throw fag butt's on the floor yet take the empty packet home to dispose of.

Spose Muang Muang could have taken the rest of the packet. What time did he leave the beach ? 3 people drinking and smoking would soon finish 10 fags.

[KamalaRider]

Stuff all the amateur Sherlocks - it doesn't matter who did it any more the whole thing is incapable of producing a fair trial no matter WHO you think did it .....trying to pick at evidence and theories is just schoolboy fantasy....it isn't even relevant...any trial of anyone now can be nothing more than a sham

unless they have the DNA taken from the rape. Then they can reexamine the samples taken on the sweep of people and even retest a few who were never really tested.

A possible scenario:

When Hannah's body was returned to the UK, DNA samples were taken. Foreign DNA was discovered, maybe from traces of sperm. This was subsequently compared to the DNA of the B2 and found not to match (it would be an extremely simple matter to obtain the DNA of the B2 even if they were in jail or possibly the DNA of the parents).

This could very well account for the "discrepancy" and is extremely "significant".

As the defense, this is obviously something you would not want to bring to light too early on in the trial (poker players will understand).

I do believe the "delay" have other purposes as this isn't a poker game, destroying the ONLY incriminating evidence the RTP claims they have as early as possible would make the judge look incredibly stupid to let the trial continue, so I'm guessing the defense has another agenda.

The DNA is the ONLY real evidence according to the RTP, so why would the defense let this charade go on further?

I have no clue but to believe that the defense lawyers unfortunately don't have any DNA evidence from the UK forensics, but I'm only speculating.

The longer the trial prolongs, the more shadows will be presented and the whole bogus trial will be clouded.

[JLCrab]

A picture is worth what?

Remember this press conference?

1414785018021_wps_24_Bangkok_Thailand_30th_Oct.jpg

Now ask yourself how the head man of a pissant little island gets the top cop of the entire country to sit beside him for an announcement that his son's (long refused) DNA test has come back negative.

You really think DNA (or any other "evidence" for that matter) has any relevance here?

Well said, brother.

Maybe a lot of money changed hands. It would be churlish to refuse an invitation, wouldn't it?

From the above: "Now ask yourself how the head man of a pissant little island gets the top cop of the entire country to sit beside him ..."

He hired the right lawyer.

[rockingrobin]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

It is my understanding that the 3 cigarette butts found are 2 Marlborough and 1 L & M brands

[cumgranosalum]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

After all these pages and some still don't get it..... It really doesn't enter into it as the chances of a fair trial GUILTY OR NOT - went out of the window as soon as the police and public started to tramp all over the crime scene

[catsanddogs]

Sept 27th '14

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/key-witness-says-foreigner-kills-british-tourists

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner says police investigators have obtained a key witness who said foreigner killed the two British tourists in Koh Tao island.

But this latest disclosure, if confirmed, will be a significant turn of the probe which earlier focused only on locals and migrant workers after DNA testing revealed the mixed semen found inside Ms Hannah Witheridge belonged to Asians.

More than 300 migrant workers and locals were rounded up to have their DNA samples tested. But none has matched DNA found in her body.

[Lite Beer]

KOH TAO MURDER
Forensic evidence not 'lost': police chief
THE NATION

KOK SAMUI: -- National police chief says officer 'misunderstood; case enters third day

THE TRIAL on the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao entered its third day yesterday, with witnesses testifying that the Samui provincial court was not able to rule on the defence team's request for a re-examination of forensic evidence.

Chief prosecutor Thawatchai Siengjaew said the cross-examination of the witnesses would take time, but should be completed by the end of this month.

The defence team has asked the court to get the forensic and DNA evidence re-examined by the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science. It had initially been collected and examined by the Police Forensic Science Institute.

The trial of the two Myanmar migrants - Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - for allegedly murdering David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has caught the attention of both local and international media as it is widely believed that they have been made scapegoats for the crime.

Miller and Witheridge were murdered in September last year on Koh Tao off Surat Thani province.

Meanwhile, national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompunmuang dismissed reports that the DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested as some of it had either been "used up" or lost.

He said this "miscommunication" may have resulted from a misinterpretation of the police investigator's remark.

On Thursday, BBC News reported on its website that crucial DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested because it no longer exists. It quoted Pol Lt-Colonel Somsak Noorod, who led the original investigation, as saying that some of the original DNA samples had been "used up", while the hair sample found in Witheridge's hand was among samples that was lost.

"There's nothing left. It was all used up when we tested the first time," he was quoted as saying.

However, Somyot referred to Provincial Bureau 8 chief Pol Lt-General Decha Butrnampetch, who oversees the area, as saying that the evidence was not lost.

"This report may have resulted from a mistranslation of the officer's statement," Somyot said, adding that maybe the officer wanted to say that the evidence had been handed over to the Institute of Forensic Medicine after the investigation finished.

"So when the defence lawyer asked him in the court about the DNA samples and evidence, he said he did not have them. This may have made people misunderstand that the evidence no longer exists or was lost," the police chief said.

Thawatchai agreed, saying the BBC had misunderstood the officer and that the evidence had not been lost. However, he said, some DNA samples may have been used up in accordance with the examination process.

"We still have specific DNA samples from the hoe," he said, without elaborating. Police had collected a hoe from a garden near the crime scene where the bodies were found and it was believed to be a murder weapon.

British daily, The Telegraph, quoted lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat as saying, "We have received information from British authorities that shows inconsistencies in the prosecution case. This is significant evidence."

However, the lawyer said the evidence was not provided by British police or the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It is believed it came from examination of the victims' bodies in the UK and is tied to DNA found on Witheridge's corpse.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Forensic-evidence-not-lost-police-chief-30264238.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-11

[cumgranosalum]

Any trial... No matter what the system, has to demonstrate rational thought and deduction as well as an orderly scientific procedure

It seems that many on this thread don't grasp this and feel that by arguing about evidence and theories of what might have happened, they are somehow participating in the debate... This is incorrect and they are in fact just clouding the real issues... They are behaving just like the Thai authorities and helping them to get away with a tragic farce masquerading as justice

Rational thought and deduction hey?

I guess that could explain how people who are on pretty ordinary salaries come to be multi millionaires, of what is commonly known as "unusual wealth"

But,yeah, Its because they are stock market geniuses, right?

Do wake up old boy, or if you happened to be nestled in your farang utopia..then go back to sleep and save us!!

I'd say this is pretty indicative of the standard of posting on this thread...... The poster clearly hasn't even bothered to read my post before making a comment that has no connection it and then includes an ad hominem comment for good measure.

[bunglebag]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

I am sorry but all my statements ended with a Question Marks, as I was asking you a question. I was doing that because you made the "assumption" that these 2 tiny men couldn't overpower 1 larger man. So I thought maybe you knew that David had special fighting skills, and his sobriety at the time or knew the accused background and fighting skills, to make such an assumption.

But, I guess not.

Well there is cctv video footage of David walking back down the strip around 1.30am iirc, apparently on his way to look for Hannah, and he did not appear worse for wear at that time.

[bunglebag]

If it is true that police have stated to the judges that Hannah's and davids clothes were neatly stacked and it looked like they may have had sex .

Also the hoe did not look like it had blood on it when forensics tested it going by a youtube.

There is a big possibility a person took the photos of the scattered clothes and bloody hoe and put them online before the crime scene was inspected by forensics.

It looks like the crime scene inspected by forensics had a clean hoe and neatly stacked clothes I may be wrong but it looks that way to me.

I think people may have been trying to stop this from coming out possibly certain people have knowledge on this forum but i have no idea.

It makes me wonder if the defence and andy hall have actually seen the photo's of scattered clothing and a bloody hoe I think they would have .

This doesn't look good and makes people more suspicious of this whole trial and some posters.

The pictures of the hoe in its 'found' condition were all over the place the first day or two, even some news sites iirc.

Clothes of course were not neatly stacked in the least as has been seen in previous photos since day 1 again. This trial is the first time I've heard it claimed they were neatly stacked and I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that one.

[catsanddogs]

KOH TAO MURDER

Forensic evidence not 'lost': police chief

THE NATION

KOK SAMUI: -- National police chief says officer 'misunderstood; case enters third day

THE TRIAL on the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao entered its third day yesterday, with witnesses testifying that the Samui provincial court was not able to rule on the defence team's request for a re-examination of forensic evidence.

Chief prosecutor Thawatchai Siengjaew said the cross-examination of the witnesses would take time, but should be completed by the end of this month.

The defence team has asked the court to get the forensic and DNA evidence re-examined by the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science. It had initially been collected and examined by the Police Forensic Science Institute.

The trial of the two Myanmar migrants - Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - for allegedly murdering David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has caught the attention of both local and international media as it is widely believed that they have been made scapegoats for the crime.

Miller and Witheridge were murdered in September last year on Koh Tao off Surat Thani province.

Meanwhile, national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompunmuang dismissed reports that the DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested as some of it had either been "used up" or lost.

He said this "miscommunication" may have resulted from a misinterpretation of the police investigator's remark.

On Thursday, BBC News reported on its website that crucial DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested because it no longer exists. It quoted Pol Lt-Colonel Somsak Noorod, who led the original investigation, as saying that some of the original DNA samples had been "used up", while the hair sample found in Witheridge's hand was among samples that was lost.

"There's nothing left. It was all used up when we tested the first time," he was quoted as saying.

However, Somyot referred to Provincial Bureau 8 chief Pol Lt-General Decha Butrnampetch, who oversees the area, as saying that the evidence was not lost.

"This report may have resulted from a mistranslation of the officer's statement," Somyot said, adding that maybe the officer wanted to say that the evidence had been handed over to the Institute of Forensic Medicine after the investigation finished.

"So when the defence lawyer asked him in the court about the DNA samples and evidence, he said he did not have them. This may have made people misunderstand that the evidence no longer exists or was lost," the police chief said.

Thawatchai agreed, saying the BBC had misunderstood the officer and that the evidence had not been lost. However, he said, some DNA samples may have been used up in accordance with the examination process.

"We still have specific DNA samples from the hoe," he said, without elaborating. Police had collected a hoe from a garden near the crime scene where the bodies were found and it was believed to be a murder weapon.

British daily, The Telegraph, quoted lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat as saying, "We have received information from British authorities that shows inconsistencies in the prosecution case. This is significant evidence."

However, the lawyer said the evidence was not provided by British police or the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It is believed it came from examination of the victims' bodies in the UK and is tied to DNA found on Witheridge's corpse.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Forensic-evidence-not-lost-police-chief-30264238.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-11

Oh that's alright then. Nice and clear. Silly old BBC - trust them to get it wrong.

[rockingrobin]

Confusion reigns and the catalogue of ambiguity continues

The court has now been told that vital DNA evidence cannot be retested. At the end of the trial's third day, the judge said police had informed him all the samples taken on the island were "finished" - meaning they could not be analysed again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33473662

with reference to the cig buts , dna samples fro 2 Marlborough and 1 L&M , from BP

[StealthEnergiser]

If it is true that police have stated to the judges that Hannah's and davids clothes were neatly stacked and it looked like they may have had sex .

Also the hoe did not look like it had blood on it when forensics tested it going by a youtube.

There is a big possibility a person took the photos of the scattered clothes and bloody hoe and put them online before the crime scene was inspected by forensics.

It looks like the crime scene inspected by forensics had a clean hoe and neatly stacked clothes I may be wrong but it looks that way to me.

I think people may have been trying to stop this from coming out possibly certain people have knowledge on this forum but i have no idea.

It makes me wonder if the defence and andy hall have actually seen the photo's of scattered clothing and a bloody hoe I think they would have .

This doesn't look good and makes people more suspicious of this whole trial and some posters.

The pictures of the hoe in its 'found' condition were all over the place the first day or two, even some news sites iirc.

Clothes of course were not neatly stacked in the least as has been seen in previous photos since day 1 again. This trial is the first time I've heard it claimed they were neatly stacked and I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that one.

but it looks like the hoe that forensics examined had been washed a

U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

“Also, police cajoled him to say he washed off the blood from the hoe. However, that is not what he told the judge. He said that he had not paid any attention to the hoe and was not aware of whether there was any blood on it or not.”

The defence team previously requested the DNA sample to be re-examined by Thailand’s top forensic expert, Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

[bunglebag]

If it is true that police have stated to the judges that Hannah's and davids clothes were neatly stacked and it looked like they may have had sex .

Also the hoe did not look like it had blood on it when forensics tested it going by a youtube.

There is a big possibility a person took the photos of the scattered clothes and bloody hoe and put them online before the crime scene was inspected by forensics.

It looks like the crime scene inspected by forensics had a clean hoe and neatly stacked clothes I may be wrong but it looks that way to me.

I think people may have been trying to stop this from coming out possibly certain people have knowledge on this forum but i have no idea.

It makes me wonder if the defence and andy hall have actually seen the photo's of scattered clothing and a bloody hoe I think they would have .

This doesn't look good and makes people more suspicious of this whole trial and some posters.

The pictures of the hoe in its 'found' condition were all over the place the first day or two, even some news sites iirc.

Clothes of course were not neatly stacked in the least as has been seen in previous photos since day 1 again. This trial is the first time I've heard it claimed they were neatly stacked and I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that one.

but it looks like the hoe that forensics examined had been washed a

U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

“Also, police cajoled him to say he washed off the blood from the hoe. However, that is not what he told the judge. He said that he had not paid any attention to the hoe and was not aware of whether there was any blood on it or not.”

The defence team previously requested the DNA sample to be re-examined by Thailand’s top forensic expert, Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

Ah do you mean that possible evidence on the hoe was cleaned off during the original forensic examination thus making it possibly less useful for forensic purposes now? or that it looked like it had been cleaned prior to forensic testing?

First images in google (images) for 'koh tao hoe' show it in its original 'found' condition.

[eliotness]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Of course I've considered that remote possibility. But their size and their confession along with the reenactment made no sense. If someone could come up with a plausible explanation for how those two tiny men, who were undoubtedly very tired and probably fairly drunk managed to overpower a man much bigger than them and have him sustain the wounds he did while they suffered none, while at the same time ensuring that Hannah did not escape then I might consider it possible. But instead we have had nonsensical story after story from the RTP.

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

Sorry but I have to make one point here, being a university student and not being used to a lot of alcohol doesn't fit in a lot of cases.

[StealthEnergiser]

Published on Dec 26, 2014

some people may not have seen this old new

Metropolitan police says there's confusion & inconsistencies in Koh Tao case

[noitom]

Does anyone have a keystone cops link? Thailand police investigations of crime is better than the Greatest Show on Earth.

[noitom]

This Thai "blames" it on the "vague" comments of the previous Thai police spokesperson as well as the "foreign" press that didn't understand Thai well.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Links to a blocked website have been removed

[boomerangutang]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Well, I did. Darn near got crucified here for even suggesting that.

People in these parts don't cater to strangers having a different opinion. So forget about free speech here. They much prefer you join by coming up with some conspiracy theory. The Bigger the Better.

There are basic differences in outlook, between the posters herein seeking truth and justice (T&J) and those seeking to shield everyone connected to the Headman; (Headman's people shielders or HPS). I'll put it in a nutshell . . . . .

>>> T&J want all evidence re-checked for veracity, and want all revealed. HPS are doing all they can to suppress evidence.

>>> T&J have made many viable suggestions for investigating items/people which could provide evidence for finding who the real killers are. HPS has put up roadblocks to every suggestion.

>>> T&J are willing to concede the two Burmese are guilty, if the evidence and eyewitnesses prove it. HPS are incapable of conceding any of the H's people could be guilty of any wrongdoing, regardless of evidence which might prove it.

>>> T&J are open to discussing all facets of the crime and investigation, and are eager for DNA of all persons-of-interest to be examined and compared to DNA found in/on victim. HPS want no such things. Indeed, HPS want no discussion or scrutiny of anyone connected to the Headman, and they sometimes hint at defamation of character lawsuits (or bodily harm) to back their fixation with shielding anyone connected to the Headman.

[pinkpanther99]

I saw this last night being share on Facebook. Seems to raise some fair questions if you ask me: