Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[kkup]

In a real court that fact that they let civilians walk all over the crime scene so early on would mean the prosecutors case would be weak at best. Unless they had an eye witness.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I would like to know how the first policeman in the scene was able to say both bodies where almost naked, when it is clear Hannah was almost fully clothed.

These people have no problem telling lies even when the truth is staring them right in the face.

Did he show a picture of Hannah's broken body which was dressed and told people "look she is virtually naked"?

According to all the press reports/photos/videos on Thai television from the crime scene before the trial started, David was totally naked so I find the testimony of this police witness rather odd, to say the least. On the other hand Hannah was found partially clothed, i.e. she was still wearing her top and skirt.

David was found naked. Hannah had her top lowered below her breast line, thus exposing her breast, and her skirt was raise well above her waist, exposing her nude body under that. How would you explain the bodies if you found them and didn't want to give out too much detail?

[JLCrab]

Just moments ago on Sky News, when the reporter was asked if there was concern that the 2 may not get a fair trial, he stated that this was the case, and that translators had been threatened by the local mafia not to help reporters............................wonderful country amazing people.

The Reuters Chief Bangkok Correspondent is Thai and doesn't need a translator.

[boomerangutang]

For the Umpteenth Time, these people you constantly suggest were investigated from the first, but where cleared because they had an Iron Clad Alibi and had their DNA Tested, which did not match. How much more would your Police need to clear a suspect? .

"your police"? Not sure whether they're 'my police.' but to answer your Q; I would need a better alibi, than a CCTV shot of NS leaving the apartment 4.5 hours after the crime, when it would only take around 3.5 hours to get from the island to Bkk (if in a hurry) if taking the morning NOK AIR flight from Chompun. There's no chance we'll ever hear from Nok Air who was on that flight, Sept.15.

So on one hand you have earlier suspects, who through an Iron Clad Alibi, where one proved he could not have even been on the Island during the times of these murders, and DNA Samples taken from both them, that did not match Hannah's DNA Sample and thus cleared of any suspicion.

Sounds like that's your favorite adjective today, "Iron Clad" as you've used it several times to describe NS's flimsy alibi. BTW it's one word; 'ironclad' unless you're describing how Maggie Thatcher gets dressed each morning.

With Evidence like this, any Police Force in the World would arrest the 2 accused and charge them for this crime.

uhhhhh, ok, I guess so, if you say so.

[johnnytuc]

Just moments ago on Sky News, when the reporter was asked if there was concern that the 2 may not get a fair trial, he stated that this was the case, and that translators had been threatened by the local mafia not to help reporters............................wonderful country amazing people.

The Reuters Chief Bangkok Correspondent is Thai and doesn't need a translator.

what an unbelievable reply, not talking about reuters,they were talking about general reporters

[jdinasia]

IATA keeps records of all passengers. Independent agency that even conspiracy theorists cannot be suggesting were involved. Since Nok flies to international destinations they are required to maintain records for all flights.

Not to mention the fact that the video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test has been aired on PBS with experts....

Geeze

Edited July 9, 2015 by jdinasia

[jaidam]

"We feel confident he will allow it," he said of tests the defence had been demanding for months in order for a "fair trial". The defence team had also complained about not being given access to the forensic evidence, despite the court initially ruling in April that they could run their own independent tests. "There's a real lack of adequate disclosure by the prosecution and that worries us about whether there will be a fair trial," Hall, from the Migrant Worker Rights Network, told AFP before the judge confirmed a decision on this would be reached today.

The forensic material from the crime scene has been used by Thai police and prosecutors to insist they had charged the right men, saying it strongly pointed to the Myanmar pair as the perpetrators.

I was under the impression that independent tests were allowed and had been done as requested by the defence, but it would appear not

not sure there is much to add to that, I will not comment but I'm sure others are thinking exactly what I am thinking

my thoughts are with the family at this very traumatic time, but I do want to see justice in this case ...and verification of the DNA evidence is a key factor, if the police are confident then what is the problem having it verified

Oh and I forgot - what was it that led the police to these two suspects in the first place, was it something about a phone being found outside their residence or something like that, in order to hunt down killers you have a trail of events that lead to the suspects being implicated - the DNA is just verification that the trail was correct

Not much. They were randomly rounding up young migrants for questioning (torture?). A group who were playing Sepak Takrow ran away from them. The three who managed to not get caught by some amazing coincidence then turned out to be the murderers. Well one of those caught confessed then withdrew his confession then implicated the other two then didn't implicate them. Then the other two confessed and then withdrew their confession.

What happened to the 1st Burmese to confess? I think his name was Maung Maung? So, I wonder why he confessed if he is innocent, and I wonder why if he was guilty, like he said, why the hell is he not on trial now?

It will be interesting to hear more details of these "mafia" threats. If officialdom is correct about this case, the Burmese mafia in Thailand have gotten way out of hand.

[boomerangutang]

Just moments ago on Sky News, when the reporter was asked if there was concern that the 2 may not get a fair trial, he stated that this was the case, and that translators had been threatened by the local mafia not to help reporters............................wonderful country amazing people.

The Reuters Chief Bangkok Correspondent is Thai and doesn't need a translator.

Come on Crab. The word is 'translators' with an 's' - which indicates more than one. A news org can have more than one translator. Try imaging there were more than one person from Sky News on the scene reporting. It's not hard to do.

In a similar vein. I have a Burmese friend who speaks English better than most English speakers. I had thought of enabling him to get his buns down to the trial site to help out with Burmese- to-English translations. Unfortunately, he's too poor to pay his own way, and I'm to poor to sponsor him for that role. So, he won't be there. Now there's another concern: I wouldn't want him to get threatened with bodily harm for just assisting in reporting the case.

[oldsailor35]

Personally I don't buy this "we were tortured into confessing" c&%#p. They would have to do a lot more to me than just a few slaps to get a confession which would certainly mean the gallows or life in jail. Flaying or removing body parts comes to mind. The Burmese boys looked pretty healthy to me after the alleged "torture".

Its obvious that 'torture' has advanced from your days with the old RACK.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Just a thought, if the DNA isn't a match, I wonder who's DNA might have been found in Hannah.

Do you (jdinasia) think it should be retested against those who have already been tested ? Maybe a certain someone could head to Britain and do a test in front of the T.V. cameras.

If you're asking jdinasia or AleG, they would say 'No' ...new testing of DNA should not be done which compares Nomsod's or Mon's DNA (or any other of the Headman's peoples' DNA) against the DNA found in/on Hannah. They would say something like, "No, they're not the defendants, they've already been cleared. Forget about them. Don't even mention their names. They're cleared now and foreever, you got that?!"

Do you mean with also the Alibi of Nomsod, in which he is captured on CCTV in his Bangkok Residence at the University on both the day before and the day of the murders?

Or does your Grand Conspiracy Theory also include the Security at the University Campus, plus all the University Students who say Nomsod was in class at the Bangkok University and writing an exam on the morning of September 15th, and day of the murders?

DNA Testing is expensive and also very time consuming. I am sure they are backlogged in Thailand for other crimes, and just like they are where you live. So you can add me to the list that would say No, as with an Alibi like this, you are just wasting time and tax payers money. Especially when you already have a match from the 2 accused.

[jackanapes]

so much is being said about this trial if a separate dna test is allowed all being well it might prove these boys innocent but this is Thailand and apparently all the evidence points to these two boys being guilty, a fit up from start to finish .

[thailandchilli]

IATA keeps records of all passengers. Independent agency that even conspiracy theorists cannot be suggesting were involved. Since Nok flies to international destinations they are required to maintain records for all flights.

Not to mention the fact that the video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test has been aired on PBS with experts....

Geeze

I'm afraid the Thai Civil Aviation Authority is not doing so well at the moment in terms of credibility, red Flagged recently and only a few weeks ago failing to detect a handgun from an ex Bangkok Chief RTP. I personally would not trust a passenger list from Nok Air

On its website, the International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) listed Thailand with a red flag, which means it has been downgraded to Category 2 from Category 1.

This comes in the wake of news that a former Thai Police General got caught at Tokyo Narita Airport with a gun and ammunition in his carry on which he boarded with at Bangkok BKK International Airport, likely bypassing airport security using his social standing.

http://loyaltylobby.com/2015/06/24/icao-red-flags-thailand-for-aviation-safety-standards-after-deadline-expired/

[boomerangutang]

What happened to the 1st Burmese to confess? I think his name was Maung Maung? So, I wonder why he confessed if he is innocent, and I wonder why if he was guilty, like he said, why the hell is he not on trial now?

It will be interesting to hear more details of these "mafia" threats. If officialdom is correct about this case, the Burmese mafia in Thailand have gotten way out of hand.

HIs name is Muang Muang or MM for short. It appears as tho he may have gone 'state's witness.' We don't yet know, but there's an interesting photo of him standing alongside the interrogators, all with pleasant looks on their faces, and the Burnese guy doesn't looked shackled or hindered or tense in any way. He looks like part of a team, in that photo.

I don't think he confessed at any stage. He's a bit older, so he was probably apprised of his right to have a lawyer present, and some ideas of not self-incriminating himself. In contrast, the 2 younger Burmese were like deer caught in headlights.

[oldsailor35]

Mr Nakhon if you expect justice to be done i would expect all parties to be able to scrutinise evidence and ask serious questions of the investigative process.

I feel dreadfully sorry for the boys on trial. I just can't see how they did it when all viable evidence points elsewhere. They've suffered enough so hope they are acquitted sooner rather than later

I really don't see why you should feel sorry for the boys who are accused of Raping and Murdering that girl, and other boy. You should feel happy for them now.

After all they have been held in Custody since last October. But now they have a change to present all this "viable evidence" you claim they have and thus surely they will be set free.

I mean who could hold anyone with all this viable evidence that nobody has seen or heard about yet, with all this media attention?

Do you, or have you ever lived in Thailand as you don't seem to have much knowledge or idea of just how the RTP operate.

[Gweiloman]

Recall the two accused Burmese were not the first suspects arrested for the murders.

2014-09-17

Surat Thani police yesterday arrested a British tourist after he was suspected to have connection with the deaths of two fellow Britons in Koh Tao off Surat Thani coast.

Police identified the British back packer as Christopher Alanvare.

Police said they arrested him after employees of a resort on the beach told police that Mr Christopher was seen strolling near the scene where the two British tourists were killed on the night of September 14.

Besides they also found a significant evidence which is a blood stain on his clothes.

Police said Christopher urgently left the popular diving paradise on the first ferry to the mainland the next day after the murder was discovered.

So convinced that Chris was guilty, the police chief announced that the murders were about to be brought to justice. Prayut followed with a statement that no Thai would commit such a crime. Then the "evidence" failed to implicate Chris and the police had to actually begin an investigation in earnst.

Wasn't this the point where the RTP had "allegedly" planted the shirt in this guy's bags?

All adds to the credibility of the RTP huh? How will JD and Aleg and the rest of the shill "thicket" spin this?

Planted shirt? Huh?

So he got the article of clothing wrong. As you well know JD, it was jeans the police planted. But that doesn't fit your picture does it?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, jdinasia's posts are purely to muddy and obsfucate the thread with lots of nonsense.

[newnative]

I've lost track--did the British police who investigated ever issue any report on the investigation or their dna testing?

[boomerangutang]

IATA keeps records of all passengers. Independent agency that even conspiracy theorists cannot be suggesting were involved. Since Nok flies to international destinations they are required to maintain records for all flights. Not to mention the fact that the video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test has been aired on PBS with experts... Geeze

You're talking about two different things. The Nok Air evidence will not be seen by you or me, but probably by the RTP and/or Mon who likely stuffed it as soon as they realized it was incriminating, if it was. Perhaps NS was not on that flight. If not, I'll leave it 100% alone. However, if he was on that flight, it makes this a whole new kettle of fish.

Can we see records of that NOK AIR flight of Monday morning 15-9-14? That would include the passenger manifest and if possible, CCTV of passengers boarding in Chumpon and unloading at Don Muang in Bkk. Something tells me we don't have a chance in hell of seeing any of that. But hey, we're just the general public. We're not as important as the RTP or the Headman's family members.

You mention "the video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test...." The crime ended at 5 am. Did you see CCTV footage of the 4.5 hours up until NS leaves the apartment? I watched the PBS special you mentioned. The only footage it showed, before NS's departure, was a hyper-speeded-up segment (1 hour in 3 seconds). I can't recall the exact times, but I had the specs in a prior post from 3 weeks ago. I do recall that the speeded up version was so fast it was useless, and there were big gaps of time in it. Is that what you're basing NS's alibi on? Wow, that's grasping for straws.

Just a thought, if the DNA isn't a match, I wonder who's DNA might have been found in Hannah.

Do you (jdinasia) think it should be retested against those who have already been tested ? Maybe a certain someone could head to Britain and do a test in front of the T.V. cameras.

If you're asking jdinasia or AleG, they would say 'No' ...new testing of DNA should not be done which compares Nomsod's or Mon's DNA (or any other of the Headman's peoples' DNA) against the DNA found in/on Hannah. They would say something like, "No, they're not the defendants, they've already been cleared. Forget about them. Don't even mention their names. They're cleared now and foreever, you got that?!"

Do you mean with also the Alibi of Nomsod, in which he is captured on CCTV in his Bangkok Residence at the University on both the day before and the day of the murders?

I've been asking to see video of Nomsod entering the lobby - prior to the well-seen video of him leaving. R u saying there's video of him entering? ....either the 14th or the 15? Let's see it, or where's the link?

[hugh2121]

Hmmmm

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

[brewsterbudgen]

Hmmmm

"Please allow the police and the court to do their jobs during the coming weeks and months. We, of course, want to see those responsible for the brutal murder of our precious girl brought to justice."

Indeed. One would hope the victims' loved ones are not following this thread.

[thailandchilli]

I've lost track--did the British police who investigated ever issue any report on the investigation or their dna testing?

Sort of:

However, the Met’s legal services team wrote back to say the force did not hold any details of the case. Its letter to Reprieve said: “The Thai authorities permitted the UK police officers to have observer status only in relation to limited parts of the Royal Thai police’s investigation, and the UK police officers did not provide any advice or assistance with that investigation.

“They did not take possession of any physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements. The Royal Thai police provided an interpreter who verbally translated documents that formed limited parts of the prosecution case.”

The letter said detectives had visited the Witheridge and Miller families and “verbally explained limited aspects of the investigation that they had observed”, and briefed them on how the judicial process operates in Thailand.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/police-thai-inquiry-britons-murder

And also this statement:

"The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of 2 British tourists on the island of Koh Tao. Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the 2 men from Burma charged with murder."

This was broadcast on BBC Radio 2 on the 22nd Dec 2014

[boomerangutang]

I've lost track--did the British police who investigated ever issue any report on the investigation or their dna testing?

First off, the Brit experts were expressly forbidden from doing any investigating - by the self-appointed Thai PM. That was a day after he agreed, in a face to face talk with Brit PM Cameron, to allow Brits to do some investigative work. BTW, it's not unusual for one country's cops to ask another country's cops to assist in an investigation, particularly if the outside country has nationals involved (the two crime victims were British). It's happened in Portugal, in Holland, in the US. It's even happened in Thailand, when Thai cops cooperate with US or British or Interpol experts re; crime evidence provided by outsiders. That's how Al Qaeda's #3 was caught in Chiang Kong, several years ago ....and there are hundreds of other examples.

However, in this case, there is a blanket refusal placed by Thai officials upon any participation by British experts. I wonder why? It wouldn't be because of a cover up, would it? Nawwww, this is Thailand. All police work here is above-board and truthful.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Post # 205

"I reckon the boys also know who did it, and while they may have been brave enough to recant their confessions citing duress, they will certainly be too terrified to say who actually did it. I am sure they know how much influence and power is at the hands of the real perps, and being a stuck in that h there jail would not be a safe place for a witness to be"

Should the 2B actually know who committed the murders, I am confident that the Defense Team also know..

Your Right. The 22 Year Old Boys, which in my country we call "Men", know who did it. Easy for them to figure out, if it was them!

[Gweiloman]

Post # 205

"I reckon the boys also know who did it, and while they may have been brave enough to recant their confessions citing duress, they will certainly be too terrified to say who actually did it. I am sure they know how much influence and power is at the hands of the real perps, and being a stuck in that h there jail would not be a safe place for a witness to be"

Should the 2B actually know who committed the murders, I am confident that the Defense Team also know..

Your Right. The 22 Year Old Boys, which in my country we call "Men", know who did it. Easy for them to figure out, if it was them!

At my age, anybody below 40 is a boy or lad to me.

You know they did it, how? Based on the very flimsy and suspect "evidence" of the RTP?

[GOLDBUGGY]

No 2 DNA's Match! Not Now! Not Ever!

You can match DNA of a child to a Parent as in many ways they are close. But being close only counts when you are throwing Horse Shoes or Grenades. Being close doesn't count as Evidence in a Court of Law.

If what you said was true then many DNA Matches they have matched for Crimes could actually be the Father, or Mother, or even a Twin Brother.

GOLDBUGGY,

You misunderstand me.

We all have 50% of our mother's DNA and 50% of our father's DNA. If you take a sample from each parent and compare it to a DNA sample from the scene of a crime it will be apparent whether or not the child of those parents could be a possible match.

I am not suggesting that the child will have identical DNA to that of either parent.

If that is true what you say, then there is also 50% of the Father's DNA, and 50% of the Mother's DNA that the accused doesn't have. So how do you scene that from the Parents to get the exact match with the accused?

I am sorry but I don't buy this. Your Theory and Revolutionary Idea may makes sense to you but not to me. I have never heard of anyone accused of Murder at a Murder Trial by using only the Parents DNA as Evidence, and I doubt you have either.

I worked for the police in the UK at a Scene of Crime Office.

Whilst there a guy was convicted of a murder, 17 years previous I believe.

A teenager was cautioned for a minor offence and DNA tested. It proved a partial match for the murder all those years ago and suggested a family member.

It proved to be the teenagers uncle who had commuted the murder.

Thank You for that!

I am guessing then that this Partial DNA Collected from the suspect, narrowed down there search and in arresting the real offender and his uncle. I guess it also proves what I said earlier.

That being CLOSE only counts when you are throwing Horse Shoes and Grenades, and not when it is dealing with Evidence.

[JLCrab]

Just moments ago on Sky News, when the reporter was asked if there was concern that the 2 may not get a fair trial, he stated that this was the case, and that translators had been threatened by the local mafia not to help reporters............................wonderful country amazing people.

The Reuters Chief Bangkok Correspondent is Thai and doesn't need a translator.

Come on Crab. The word is 'translators' with an 's' - which indicates more than one. A news org can have more than one translator. Try imaging there were more than one person from Sky News on the scene reporting. It's not hard to do.

In a similar vein. I have a Burmese friend who speaks English better than most English speakers. I had thought of enabling him to get his buns down to the trial site to help out with Burmese- to-English translations. Unfortunately, he's too poor to pay his own way, and I'm to poor to sponsor him for that role. So, he won't be there. Now there's another concern: I wouldn't want him to get threatened with bodily harm for just assisting in reporting the case.

Reuters has a chief Thailand correspondent who is Thai and can write her own dispatches in English as opposed to the other organizations who send a correspondent who speaks no or inadequate Thai especially to courtroom vocabulary and is reliant upon Thai translators.

Why is that such a cause for your consternation from you and a gent above?

[flyingdoc]

One would be tempted to think that with the world watching, justice might prevail? I wonder, though?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Recall the two accused Burmese were not the first suspects arrested for the murders.

2014-09-17

Surat Thani police yesterday arrested a British tourist after he was suspected to have connection with the deaths of two fellow Britons in Koh Tao off Surat Thani coast.

Police identified the British back packer as Christopher Alanvare.

Police said they arrested him after employees of a resort on the beach told police that Mr Christopher was seen strolling near the scene where the two British tourists were killed on the night of September 14.

Besides they also found a significant evidence which is a blood stain on his clothes.

Police said Christopher urgently left the popular diving paradise on the first ferry to the mainland the next day after the murder was discovered.

So convinced that Chris was guilty, the police chief announced that the murders were about to be brought to justice. Prayut followed with a statement that no Thai would commit such a crime. Then the "evidence" failed to implicate Chris and the police had to actually begin an investigation in earnst.

Part of the Blunders they did make, was to say something too the Media too soon. Everyone knows that! Even the Grand Conspiracy Theorists here.

Chris was far from the only suspect. There was David's Best Friend, the Boat Man, a man in a bar who appeared to have a conflict with David, The Head Man's Son and Brother, a Foot Ball Team, and Hell knows what I forgot or left out. But all were released due to lack of evidence.

The importance to all this is they were dropped as suspects due to the lack of Evidence. The 2 Accused were not! From what I have seen there is "No Lack of Evidence". Plain and Simple!

[kkup]

One would be tempted to think that with the world watching, justice might prevail? I wonder, though?

The world has been watching corrupt countries go about their business for years. Nothing changes.

[GOLDBUGGY]

This is very disturbing, tweet just in from Jonathan Samuels:

Our Thai translator at backpacker murder trial says she's been 'warned off' by 'the Mafia'. Elements here clearly fear a fair trial

https://twitter.com/jonathansamuels

Maybe he should contact Andy Hall @atomicalandy for advice this need to be noted by the defence lawyers i would think.

If this is true what she says I wonder who paid her. I would think it would be much easier and cheaper to buy her statement then the Entire Police Force up to the Prime Minister, and everyone else in-between.

In My Country the Real Mafia don't wait 1 year to settle a grudge match! They just Bump You Off!

If what she said is true, and unless she gets Police Protection right now, she is a has-been! Make no doubt about it! Real Mafia don't like Court Witnesses either!

John Gotti, the Teflon Crime Boss proved that. They gave him that name because he was charged with many crimes, but never got convicted. So they bounced off him like Teflon! Except the last time.

I can't see how a threat like this can be taken any more serious than a Bomb Treat, which never materializes. I would think and experienced Reporter, who is supposed to be bias, would not know better. But?

[thailandchilli]

Defence lawyer tells us senior police officer claims DNA found on cigarettes at scene is "finished"

https://twitter.com/jonathansamuels

Finished? What does he mean by that, its gone, disappeared??? Thats so useful if its the case, no need for independent verification as we don't have it any more!!!