Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[BoristheBlade]

If someone from outside of Thailand wanted a quick and simple take on what Thailand was truly like, then 5 minutes in that court house would suffice.

Thailand from the outside looks good in fact wonderful at times, some nice buildings, lots of impressive flags, uniforms lets not forget lots of lovely uniforms, medals, ribbons, lots of wai's, lots of nodding, lots of smiles.

The reality is a country of lies, bullshit and corruption, and the most serious of all.....

A country that treats its people with utter CONTEMPT never mind the millions of foreign visitors and ex pats....they simply are treated like pond life. Disposable when the time is right ala David and Hanna.

[Nigeone]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

We may not like it, but it is fairly convincing. These are not records the RTP can "lose" or "use up". I have tended to discount Nomsod as a suspect for a while, and this increases my impression that he was not involved.

I guess you did'nt see the obviously photo shopped pics of Nomsod entering the uni did you ?

No. I have seen stills from the CCTV footage claimed to be from the lobby of Nomsod's room on the morning of September 15, but recall no photo evidence presented from the university. This is interesting. Please share.

Not sure if this is what you mean from the lobby or the uni.

Hannah-Fresh-milk.jpg

Just ran a straight edge across the letters and numbers. There not in line and yet the door framing is. I would say this still,is doctored. You could tell if you could get the original and check the pixels for sure

[Linky]

Ok so without all the opinion etc it is 4 days of court and these are the FCTS upon which the court must consider their decision....

David and Hannah entered the same bar at different times hours before their murder.

The accused where on the beach hours before the murder.

Thats it, those are the only facts at this stage.

[DM07]

This is the theme music I cue every time Boomer mentions the 3.5 hour escape for Koh Tao to somewhere in Bangkok:

Trying to be funny?

Try harder!

Strange sense of humor, by the way!

You know, that 2 people got killed and 2 more lives are on line?

The time for stupid childish jokes?

Seriously?

[PaPiPuPePo]

@stephenterry - not a troll (despite my unfortunate profile pic which I just noticed), just someone who needs some sleep. I live in California now - wife is doing her masters at UCSD. It's 6:58am over here. I would not be writing any of this sort of stuff if I was still based in Thailand.

I was there in 2013 and returned for a short holiday in Jan 2014. Which of course was 9 months before this all happened (I was living in the states when it happened). My post is merely to provide some context to the life around the island. That said 99% of the time, it's pretty chilled out there and I enjoyed my time there, but I wasn't wearing rose coloured glasses.

With regards to the whole "Fire Dancer" thing, please don't read more into that than needed, It's merely a scenario, just like the hundreds of tin foil hat scenarios that have been posted all over the net. But, it's a more likely scenario than half of them. Please don't misinterpret this as I have some form of evidence suggesting it. I don't. I'm merely speaking from experience having lived there, and dealt with some of the characters on the island.

My point is more along the lines of, out of all the locals who tended to be pretty loose - those were the guys, bar owners had assets to protect, businesses, reputation and Face. The fire dancers were transient, with a good command of english, proper six pack beach bods, and liked to try and score foreign chicks. Some of them were definitely on drugs some of the time, and they definitely had weapons. BUT it's merely speculation. As for why blame the burmese rather than look at those avenues - two reasons:

1) Racism, local Thais are insanely racist when it comes to Burmese, and they are disposable.

2) Face/Politics - those in the govt said Thais couldn't have done this, it was just after the coup so was easier to blame a farang (i.e Shaun) - then that dind't work out so the easiest scapegoat is a Burmese worker. No papers, minimal lanugage skills, no rights. Easy.

Mike, I read your original post and it's definitely words of experience, but I can also see how your pointing towards the fire-dancer(s) and saying the headman's family couldn't have been involved could look like intentional mis-direction. Personally I disagree with you but don't think you were being insincere.

As others have pointed out in response, the lengths to which some rich/powerful locals and the cops have gone to finger these two Burmese doesn't make sense if the murderers weren't more closely connected to these people than any fire dancer would be. It seems they'd readily give him/them up to protect themselves.

The grisly, horrific way one or more people bashed in Hannah's face seems to be due to extreme rage, so the question is who would feel such rage at a young woman, and would be willing to do something like this. Either he/they were drugged out beyond reason, or they had/have a strong sense of entitlement and protection from any consequences.

It's easy to come across examples of the offspring of rich and powerful people acting brutally towards others, I mean history's full of such stories. Another reason that for me at least fingers point toward someone in or close to one of the families who control KT.

I have no idea if this guy Nomsod is involved, there are definitely some things pointing toward him, and there aren't any pointing toward 99% of the other people on the island. That alone would make him a person of interest to LE in most corners of the world.

I saw a pic of him holding a large discharge hose for a bilge or bailing pump on a boat like it's his man-thang (it's discharging water in the pic), could just be a casual joke caught on camera, but two things stand out about him in that pic--he's very wiry (lots of muscle definition), so no weakling, and his expression looks anything but innocent, kind of nasty actually, that is he's not showing an innocent smile by any means. It's an unvarnished view of him that contrasts strongly with the image he's projecting in his public appearances after the murders. Someone should post that pic up again on this thread because I think it is pretty revealing.

[HUH]

I guess you did'nt see the obviously photo shopped pics of Nomsod entering the uni did you ?

No. I have seen stills from the CCTV footage claimed to be from the lobby of Nomsod's room on the morning of September 15, but recall no photo evidence presented from the university. This is interesting. Please share.

Not sure if this is what you mean from the lobby or the uni.

Hannah-Fresh-milk.jpg

I know the reason Nomsod is being discussed is because the RTP decided to bring up his name in court yesterday but I wish we could focus on the trial events for this topic as all the reports we get directly from the trial and from the media get lost with all this and there's more than enough to discuss on those aspects. Just my opinion

[glasswort]

If this trial had any kind of credibility at all then the policeman who gave evidence would gladly hand over the hundreds of hours of cctv to the defense team so that they could double check it. Also it seems very fish that only a third of cameras 100/300 were working that night.. I find the story that 200 cameras simply out of action very hard to believe

No surprise at all that many of the cctv cameras were not working. Chances are they were never working. It is not uncommon in Thailand for contractors to install sub-standard equipment thereby making more profit for themselves and the official that placed the order.

[evadgib]

So, IF the accused are found guilty they will be handed down the death sentence - at least that's what we hear, read and was also mentioned yesterday in "Deutsche Welle's" (Germany's voice to the world) main news block.

Just in on a German news tickers (http://www.wochenblitz.com/nachrichten/65996) today:

A Thai male, who raped ten (10) girls (minors) and murdered four (4) of them, got sentenced for life yesterday for the rape and murder of a four-year old in February 2013 in the province of Loei.

The court had solid proof of the case and found the accused guilty as charged in all points. The 38-year old man "Khun Nui" already had received a sentence in December 2013 for the rape and murder of a six-year old. The rape/murder took place in Samut Prakarns Sukhumvit Road Soi 105 (Soi Lasalle). At that time Bangkok's police chief Kamronwit Thoopkrajang explained the press, that said girl was the youngest victim of a total of ten minors since 2008. Nui admitted having searched for one victim per month. He had killed two kids in Loei and another in Bangkok's district of Bang Bon. Six of his victims survived.

The same media reported earlier on the very same case (http://www.wochenblitz.com/nachrichten/46402) with full details of the rape and murder.

The relevance to the Koh Tao case is, that the entire world is watching on how this possibly very heavily tainted case is getting dealt with. Here they talk about mandatory death sentence and, irrespective of outcome, millions of people wonder what really happened at that night on Koh Tao and it might have become simply impossible for the courts to figure that one out. A mistrial might be the court's only way out and also secure the image of the courts; the police' image on how they handle(d) the case tainted their image beyond reasonable doubt already.

All the while a very, very, very sick man is locked up in jail - again - for the rape of murder of kids and possibly will be handed down a pardon whenever pardons are handed out again. If you have death penalties, then apply these appropriately across the board, if you have evidence enough (as seems the case with this monster). Quite obviously not the same court/judge/jury.

If you have a mistrial (and Koh Tao might be a prime example for the court) then .......... The scape goat though is not identified yet!

It's also worth remembering that the killer of the Brit shot dead at the full moon party had a whopping 20 years slashed from his sentance before the ink had dried. With additional remission & amnesties he'll be out in less than a decade. Edited July 23, 2015 by evadgib

[jackanapes]

there appeared to be a lot of people around that night which means anyone could have committed the murder david spoke to one man then he spoke to a group of people and apparently there were people outside the a c bar, we seem to be getting more information now than we had at the beginning of the trial cctv footage should give us more information as the trial progresses .

[bruceybonus]

It has been reported that the prosecution is claiming that the "running man" in the key CCTV footage is one of the Burmese kids (both short even by Burmese standards). This is what they look like:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/07/1412694825626_wps_5_KO_TAO_THAILAND_OCTOBER_0.jpg

This is the best available picture of the running man (probably not shown in court):

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/20/article-2763277-2184B15500000578-954_634x655.jpg

See the resemblance? Me neither.

[boomerangutang]

Despite other's views, the Thai judges will do an honest and informed job in determining the verdict in this case if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict.

I wish I could opine the same, but many indications point elsewhere.

".....if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict." That's like the German team conceding defeat to the Brazilians during the prior World Cup, when the Germans were ahead 5 - 0.

[oldsailor35]

4 days now and still not heard or seen anything coming from the court and prosecution that remotely proves the B2 are guilty..

Sketchy at best corrupt by RTP and authorities looking even more likely. This whole episode is so sad. Still no undeniable conclusive issue presented by police that can't be challenged or discounted.

Where in the hell is Jeffrey Robinson when hes id so badly needed. A defensive lawyer such as him would have these RTP guys "on toast" by now.

He goes after war criminals who have the blood of thousands on their hands.

same same RTP

[BritTim]

Not sure if this is what you mean from the lobby or the uni.

Hannah-Fresh-milk.jpg

Just ran a straight edge across the letters and numbers. There not in line and yet the door framing is. I would say this still,is doctored. You could tell if you could get the original and check the pixels for sure

For the eighth time, see the Thai PBS report:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Z1zEjDj7I#t=101

Not 100%. Could still be doctored, but not an obvious fake.

[eliotness]

So what if he was drunk, that's not a excuse for him to be brutally murdered.

But who said that except you ?

The police witness stated that David appeared drunk. My point is, why was that even mentioned, what relevance did it have in this murder ? I've seen the CCTV of him giving a high 5 and walking along the street and he seems OK. If he was a Man Utd fan and maybe just found out his team had won (that could be the reason he went back to his room for about 1 hour- to check the soccer results - can anyone confirm when that match was in relation to the time and day of the murder ?) What do the RTP home to gain by implying he was drunk ?

[Johnniey]

On the Sean situation correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a msg maybe Facebook or somewhere from him recently saying he didn't know anything about the murder as he was sleeping. And yet I was on here that night when he stated they were after him and saw the comments and went to his Facebook page with the mssgs going backwards and forwards and he cetainly made some accusations and posted pictures would indicated he did know something. He does need to man up but he's not going to I don't think!

How many here that were threatened by the Thai mafia with death, wold willingly re-enter the country to give evidence against someone in their own back yard?

He is not stupid.

[HUH]

So what if he was drunk, that's not a excuse for him to be brutally murdered.

But who said that except you ?

The police witness stated that David appeared drunk. My point is, why was that even mentioned, what relevance did it have in this murder ? I've seen the CCTV of him giving a high 5 and walking along the street and he seems OK. If he was a Man Utd fan and maybe just found out his team had won (that could be the reason he went back to his room for about 1 hour- to check the soccer results - can anyone confirm when that match was in relation to the time and day of the murder ?) What do the RTP home to gain by implying he was drunk ?

The whole point of the RTP speculating that he was drunk is to get prepared for defense questions as to how 2 midgets could overpower someone twice their size

[JohnThailandJohn]

Despite other's views, the Thai judges will do an honest and informed job in determining the verdict in this case if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict.

I wish I could opine the same, but many indications point elsewhere.

".....if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict." That's like the German team conceding defeat to the Brazilians during the prior World Cup, when the Germans were ahead 5 - 0.

At the start of the trial, their lawyer actually stated this was a possibility. It is a simple matter of reality.

Edited July 23, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[JLCrab]

This is the theme music I cue every time Boomer mentions the 3.5 hour escape for Koh Tao to somewhere in Bangkok:

< snip >

Trying to be funny?

Try harder!

Strange sense of humor, by the way!

You know, that 2 people got killed and 2 more lives are on line?

The time for stupid childish jokes?

Seriously?

I take the murder of two young persons and those who are now on trial for those crimes seriously. That does not mean that I have to take you and some of the dubious hypotheses posted on here seriously.

Edited July 23, 2015 by JLCrab

[MockingJay]

How about this Christopher Ware? If I recall correctly he had a bloody trouser in his luggage, or something? Have a good look at his right hand wrist...

Seems that all the foreigners named in regards to this case, carry wounds... just like Sean with the blood stained guitar...

If I were the judge, the trial would not even have begun without those two appearing in court. If I were the parent to one of the victims, I'd have asked Scotland Yard to put out an arrest warrant so they can be questioned, detained and if necessary put in a witness protection program. I think they are not just key witnesses, but involved somehow...

Edited July 23, 2015 by MockingJay

[BritTim]

Despite other's views, the Thai judges will do an honest and informed job in determining the verdict in this case if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict.

I wish I could opine the same, but many indications point elsewhere.

".....if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict." That's like the German team conceding defeat to the Brazilians during the prior World Cup, when the Germans were ahead 5 - 0.

At the start of the trial, their lawyer actually stated this was a possibility. It is a simple matter of reality.

It is always an option, but I would appreciate a source for the lawyer spelling it out.

[oldsailor35]

Can this be verified or do we just have their say so again?

We may not like it, but it is fairly convincing. These are not records the RTP can "lose" or "use up". I have tended to discount Nomsod as a suspect for a while, and this increases my impression that he was not involved.

I guess you did'nt see the obviously photo shopped pics of Nomsod entering the uni did you ?

No. I have seen stills from the CCTV footage claimed to be from the lobby of Nomsod's room on the morning of September 15, but recall no photo evidence presented from the university. This is interesting. Please share.

Not sure if this is what you mean from the lobby or the uni.

Hannah-Fresh-milk.jpg

Just ran a straight edge across the letters and numbers. There not in line and yet the door framing is. I would say this still,is doctored. You could tell if you could get the original and check the pixels for sure

Sorry, i have probably confused the Uni with the residence lobby. But have noticed that figures printed in different shades.

[JohnThailandJohn]

So what if he was drunk, that's not a excuse for him to be brutally murdered.

But who said that except you ?

The police witness stated that David appeared drunk. My point is, why was that even mentioned, what relevance did it have in this murder ? I've seen the CCTV of him giving a high 5 and walking along the street and he seems OK. If he was a Man Utd fan and maybe just found out his team had won (that could be the reason he went back to his room for about 1 hour- to check the soccer results - can anyone confirm when that match was in relation to the time and day of the murder ?) What do the RTP home to gain by implying he was drunk ?

The whole point of the RTP speculating that he was drunk is to get prepared for defense questions as to how 2 midgets could overpower someone twice their size

Because two short people smashing an unarmed person in the head from behind with is just so hard to comprehend. Lets not forget if he was drunk and the goal is to make that point the video and the fact he was at bars until the early morning will just go along with the toxicology reports and if such reports don't show him being drunk then not going to look good for them. My money and logic is he was at least legally drunk. Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

Edited July 23, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[BritTim]

How about this Christopher Ware? If I recall correctly he had a bloody trouser in his luggage, or something? Have a good look at his right hand wrist...

Seems that all the foreigners named in regards to this case, carry wounds... just like Sean with the blood stained guitar...

If I were the judge, the trial would not even have begun without those two appearing in court. If I were the parent to one of the victims, I'd have asked Scotland Yard to put out an arrest warrant so they can be questioned, detained and if necessary put in a witness protection program. I think they are not just key witnesses, but involved somehow...

The RTP would dearly have loved to make Sean and the Wares the patsies, but there was no way to make it stick. The wounds were examined and determined to be too old to be related to the events of 15 September.

[HUH]

Despite other's views, the Thai judges will do an honest and informed job in determining the verdict in this case if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict.

I wish I could opine the same, but many indications point elsewhere.

".....if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict." That's like the German team conceding defeat to the Brazilians during the prior World Cup, when the Germans were ahead 5 - 0.

At the start of the trial, their lawyer actually stated this was a possibility. It is a simple matter of reality.

Can you reference a link to that with the lawyers statement, is it the same lawyer that is acting on behalf of them in court now? Its just that I've only ever seen you suggest this as your opinion

[Nigeone]

On the Sean situation correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a msg maybe Facebook or somewhere from him recently saying he didn't know anything about the murder as he was sleeping. And yet I was on here that night when he stated they were after him and saw the comments and went to his Facebook page with the mssgs going backwards and forwards and he cetainly made some accusations and posted pictures would indicated he did know something. He does need to man up but he's not going to I don't think!

How many here that were threatened by the Thai mafia with death, wold willingly re-enter the country to give evidence against someone in their own back yard?

He is not stupid.

No I agree with you and I'm sure I would be worried about something happening but that there's ways around that and a statement could be made from him. Even video link with the reason given for his non appearance was fears of his safety. There's been enough reports about translators etc been threatened. A statement if he knew Nomsad was there that night would go along way. Or any other relevant information. I didn't say he had to go back there. , just man up and say what he knows

[BritTim]

Because two short people smashing an unarmed person in the head from behind with is just so hard to comprehend. Lets not forget if he was drunk and the goal is to make that point the video and the fact he was at bars until the early morning will just go along with the toxicology reports and if such reports don't show him being drunk then not going to look good for them. My money and logic is he was at least legally drunk. Bottom line not speculation if they know from the toxicology reports he was.

Because two short people smashing an unarmed person in the head from behind

I have looked at all the photos available of David. The pattern of his many woulds does not include any evidence that he was smashed on the head from behind.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Despite other's views, the Thai judges will do an honest and informed job in determining the verdict in this case if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict.

I wish I could opine the same, but many indications point elsewhere.

".....if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict." That's like the German team conceding defeat to the Brazilians during the prior World Cup, when the Germans were ahead 5 - 0.

At the start of the trial, their lawyer actually stated this was a possibility. It is a simple matter of reality.

It is always an option, but I would appreciate a source for the lawyer spelling it out.

It is somewhere on this thread. I don't recall the rest of the article it was part of to google search it but is out there just as their first lawyer from the embassy who publicly stated they confided in him their guilt while also stating they were abused by police. I believe the lawyer stated in an interview something like it was still a possibility depending on how the case goes or the evidence ... something to that affect. Nothing surprising just common sense or a reality at least.

[BritTim]

How many here that were threatened by the Thai mafia with death, wold willingly re-enter the country to give evidence against someone in their own back yard?

He is not stupid.

No I agree with you and I'm sure I would be worried about something happening but that there's ways around that and a statement could be made from him. Even video link with the reason given for his non appearance was fears of his safety. There's been enough reports about translators etc been threatened. A statement if he knew Nomsad was there that night would go along way. Or any other relevant information. I didn't say he had to go back there. , just man up and say what he knows

Sean could give an interview on prime time TV, and it would have absolutely zero impact on the trial unless he was willing to go to Koh Samui and give evidence in person.

[boomerangutang]

No. I have seen stills from the CCTV footage claimed to be from the lobby of Nomsod's room on the morning of September 15, but recall no photo evidence presented from the university. This is interesting. Please share.

Look again ! The time and dates of the CCTV camera have plainly been doctored. Also to note other things. Furniture appearing on one pic ( which must be old) does not appear on the comparison pic. There are sevral anomalies noted in this respect. It is all clear to see in earlier pages of TV. Another thing is the way Nomsod's appearance was quickly changed so as not to appear as the "running man" in the CCTV e.g. a new smart short hair cut.

I have several times posted links to the Thai PBS journalists' investigation of the full CCTV footage from all cameras. There are ways the footage might have been faked, but no credible evidence has been produced that this was done. The missing/misplaced furniture claims have been advanced many times, but never with proof. Given journalist interest in this affair, I would expect that multiple journalists would have checked out the furniture anomaly claims. Still no evidence. This is not a 100% alibi for Nomsod, but to claim it is not fairly strong just shows a lack of objectivity.

The evidence that Nomsod was on Koh Tao seems to consist entirely on the contention that he resembles the running man in the CCTV. No eye witness sightings. The Burmese kids are innocent, but Nomsod is not the most likely candidate to take their place.

"The evidence that Nomsod was on Koh Tao seems to consist entirely on the contention that he resembles the running man in the CCTV."

That, as far as I was able to piece things together, came to be after he made some comments on the CSI-LA page at the time of the incident between Mon and Sean. The people there decided that since he wasn't agreeing with them he must have some agenda or being involved in the murders (exactly the same thing that happens here with people throwing such accusations against anyone that doesn't go along with the cover-up narrative) and then the CSI-LA people decided he looked like the man on the footage. Next thing you know the police gets reports identifying him on the video, later on they explicitly blamed the whole thing on Social Media rumor mongering.

It's quite clear to me that the reason that man got sucked into this was an act of vindictive malice that continues to this day.

You can call it 'vindictive malice' if you want. I call it striving to find who really did the crime. If I see a video of ISIS killing an innocent person, is it 'vindictive malice' for me to say ISIS is guilty of manslaughter?

A person doesn't need to be a university trained forensic expert to recognize how a video closely resembles a suspect. All of us are observers of people, and can make judgments on gait, mannerisms, and similarities between people and pics. Heck, even computer software can do it to some extent. It's doubtful RTP are using any scientific analysis of Running Man video (to garner who it is). Even if RTP had the software and knew how to use it, they're hopelessly subjective about all evidence - trying so hard, like some posters herein, to shield anyone connected to Headman.

I'm glad there's continuing focus on Nomsod's and Mon's likely involvement with the crime. Unlike the RTP and prosecution, we (the general public who seek truth and justice) are leaving 'no stone unturned.' We sincerely want certain people to be locked up as suspects, no bail, and get their day in court. The court we're seeing now has the wrong defendants. It's a colossal waste of time for everyone involved. Plus, it further bolloxes up the DNA trail, which will be advantageous to Mon and Nomsod and their buddies - if they're ever brought to trial.

Indeed, that's why, at the arraignment (whether by design or innocence) when the judge asked the defendants, "If you didn't do the crime, do you know who did?" ....when the Burmese defendants said "No....." (whether or not they were telling the truth at that moment) they were also cutting themselves off from being prosecution witnesses in a future case against Mon and Nomsod - which will probably never happen.

Here are at least 4 ways that Mon and Nomsod will have an easier time of it, if they're ever brought to trial as defendants:

>>> Mon was shown walking all over the crime scene, sometimes in a hurry. Mon's lawyer can say 'DNA showing his connection cannot be trusted, because he may have contaminated the crime scene.'

>>> The DNA trail, in general, is being shown to be unreliable at best, due to RTP actions, so that would bode well for NS and Mon and their buddies.

>>> The two Burmese boys have stated in court, that they don't know who did the crime, so they would not be useful witnesses in a future trial.

>>> Both Mon and NS have access to many millions of baht, and could split from Thailand in a KT heartbeat.

Addendum, Prosecution says they have 65 witnesses, yet yesterday was 12 hours with JUST ONE WITNESS. It's doubtful Thais have a word for 'Filibuster' but that's what the prosecution is doing. Drawing all the oxygen out of the courtroom - trying asphyxiate the defense attorneys.

[HUH]

Despite other's views, the Thai judges will do an honest and informed job in determining the verdict in this case if the defendants don't plead guilty prior to the verdict

At the start of the trial, their lawyer actually stated this was a possibility. It is a simple matter of reality.

It is always an option, but I would appreciate a source for the lawyer spelling it out.

It is somewhere on this thread. I don't recall the rest of the article it was part of to google search it but is out there just as their first lawyer from the embassy who publicly stated they confided in him their guilt while also stating they were abused by police. I believe the lawyer stated in an interview something like it was still a possibility depending on how the case goes or the evidence ... something to that affect. Nothing surprising just common sense or a reality at least.

Oh ok its just that making such a statement one would have thought you could in fact provide the actual evidence. Obviously not. I would suggest in future when making such an important statement you have the link (evidence) to confirm it otherwise its just your word.