Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[boomerangutang]

So the police lied, again, when they said it was used up.

Jeeez they are good ?

How does that contradict this?:

"Meanwhile, national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompunmuang dismissed reports that the DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested as some of it had either been "used up" or lost.

He said this "miscommunication" may have resulted from a misinterpretation of the police investigator's remark.

On Thursday, BBC News reported on its website that crucial DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested because it no longer exists. It quoted Pol Lt-Colonel Somsak Noorod, who led the original investigation, as saying that some of the original DNA samples had been "used up", while the hair sample found in Witheridge's hand was among samples that was lost."

So now, after a hundred pages of gnashing of teeth it turns out that, indeed, things were misreported.

It was fairly clear to me that the original statements referred to some of the evidence gathered at the crime scene only and not referencing samples taken during the post-mortem at all.

Of course some people, again, jumped to conclusions and embraced the "All DNA evidence is lost" meme wholeheartedly.

The General said emphatically, "Nothing was lost" in reference to DNA items. Yet at least the hair was lost. And the cig butt's DNA was 'all used up.' Which is it, AleG? What part of the word 'all' ('tuk tuk' in Thai) do you and he not understand? Perhaps he's so used to lying that he doesn't even know (or care) when he's lying, similar to Thaksin.

[stephenterry]

I would suggest you need to understand that the defence cannot retest the key DNA samples because they are not available. Or if that's not true then the defence has been denied access.

[catsanddogs]

Police say Miller was struck by a single blow. Are they for real? Probably most on here could provide evidence to disprove that claim. Beggars belief.

And having now had to see the graphic photos of his son Ian Miller will hopefully be disproving that claim too.

[StealthEnergiser]

Sorry to keep banging on about this but - this still of David, the bloke in the headband and the girl - can anyone confirm if this is one of Hannah's friends? The time on datestamp is 1.56am. The policeman in court yesterday said David entered the AC bar 'around' 2am. Apart from my query over why he could not be specific about the exact time, why wasn't this footage mentioned in his report? This still is just over 3 minutes before David apparently entered AC bar and it alludes to him being alone upon entering, yet looking at the footage it would appear he could have been on his way to his destination with these people.

Not sure who they are but it certainly looks like another stuff in the investigation by the police

[sgtsabai]

To all the mafia/RTP shills. As Joseph N. Welch chief counselor for the US Army said to the infamous Sen. McCarthy, "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" That started the end of McCarthy's sorry career.

[KunMatt]

Here's an update on the latest from the "perfect case" that the RTP put together.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

Edited July 23, 2015 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[docshock13]

I would suggest you need to understand that the defence cannot retest the key DNA samples because they are not available. Or if that's not true then the defence has been denied access.

Yep. That's the way I see it too. The forensics expert made two comments about the availability of DNA from the crime scene:

1) the DNA "should" be available for re-testing--which means if it is not available it was either destroyed or lost. The destruction of evidence would point to obstruction of justice on the part of the RTP. If it was lost, it would point to gross incompetence at the very least.

2) the DNA is indeed available for re-testing--which means that the lack of cooperation by the RTP in releasing said DNA for re-testing is denying access and therefore obstruction of justice.

Summary: if forensics expert's testimony is true, the RTP have either lied, shown gross incompetence in a capital case, engaged in the thuggery they are renowned for, or possibly all of the above.

Again, can't wait to see them explain this testimony away.

Edited July 23, 2015 by docshock13

[StealthEnergiser]

23 July 2015

Hannah Witheridge murder trial: Police quizzed on why they didn’t look into rumoured bar dispute

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he was aware of rumours the 23-year-old from Hemsby had an altercation inside the AC Bar, while she was there with friends. But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of enquiry.

The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar.

But the court was also told, of the 300 CCTV cameras in the area, 200 were not working, and only 22 captured any video images of the victims, and neither Ms Witheridge, nor fellow backpacker David Miller, 24, were seen alive again after entering the AC bar separately, between midnight and 2am, in the early hours of September 15 2014.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_police_quizzed_on_why_they_didn_t_look_into_rumoured_bar_dispute_1_4164482

Edited July 23, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[007cableguy]

Here's an update on the latest from the "perfect case" that the RTP put together.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

You can't make this shit up!....... How can people on here defend the RTP Clowns?

[KunMatt]

Here's an update on the latest from the "perfect case" that the RTP put together.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

You can't make this shit up!....... How can people on here defend the RTP Clowns?

Because they are shills with a personal agenda.

[hiwave]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-never-checked-cctv-britons-killed-104553353.html#bWxeGv9

• 
  View Photo

  Sky News - Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Edited July 23, 2015 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[docshock13]

Here's an update on the latest from the "perfect case" that the RTP put together.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

You can't make this shit up!....... How can people on here defend the RTP Clowns?

Un-effin-believable!!! Seems like all the most important bits of the investigation and crime scene data collection and analysis went into the "too hard" basket or were ignored early on based upon assumptions.

Shocking revelations in that article. No wonder there were gasps in the courtroom.

Seems as though their "ironclad" case has more holes than a sieve.

[fish fingers]

If this trial had any kind of credibility at all then the policeman who gave evidence would gladly hand over the hundreds of hours of cctv to the defense team so that they could double check it. Also it seems very fish that only a third of cameras 100/300 were working that night.. I find the story that 200 cameras simply out of action very hard to believe

While i can believe many of the cameras weren't working I can also believe many people not wanting to give any evidence that might end up with them hanging from a beam in their bedroom

[stephenterry]

The b2 were not wearing the same clothes as those caught on camera. Why would that not be relevant? Or am I missing something here.

[StealthEnergiser]

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

[stephenterry]

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

H12.jpg

Okay there's this hoe covered in dried blood and there's no DNA evidence? Am I missing something here?

[HUH]

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

H12.jpg

Get the <deleted>*k, I cant believe this is happening. I have to admit as soon as I read that I laughed out loud until I remembered the victims families and the B2. This is outrageous incompetence and neglect of duty. It really cant get worse can it? Yes it probably can and will.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Koh Tao murder trail: Lawyer claims police failed to check CCTV

The defence lawyer in the Koh Tao murder trial said police had not examined CCTV footage near where two Brits were killed in September.

BANGKOK: Thai police failed to check CCTV footage from the only pier on the island where a pair of British tourists were murdered last year, a lawyer for the two Myanmar nationals accused of the killings said Thursday (Jul 23).

Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on southern Koh Tao island in September.

Both men have pleaded not guilty and face the death penalty if convicted over a case which has tarnished Thailand's reputation as a tourist paradise and seen the police accused of bungling the investigation.

Under cross-examination Thursday a senior investigating police officer, Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, told a Koh Samui court that CCTV footage from the pier had not been examined after the double murders.

The pier is close to the beach were the battered bodies of the British holidaymakers were found and is the main route to and from the resort island.

"I asked whether police checked CCTV footage. He (the witness) replied no and that police had collected the footage but investigators thought it wasn't relevant," defence lawyer Nakhon Chomphuchat told AFP after the morning session.

Read more: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/koh-tao-murder-trail/2003156.html (AFP)

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Koh Tao defense says police never checked CCTV monitoring pier

KOH SAMUI:-- Thai police failed to check CCTV footage from the only pier on the island where a pair of British tourists were murdered last year, a lawyer for the two Myanmar nationals accused of the killings said today.

Migrant workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Tun are on trial for the murder of 24-year-old David Miller and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23, on southern Koh Tao island in September.

Both men have pleaded not guilty and face the death penalty if convicted over a case which has tarnished Thailand's reputation as a tourist paradise and seen the police accused of bungling the investigation.

Under cross-examination Thursday a senior investigating police officer, Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, told a Koh Samui court that CCTV footage from the pier had not been examined after the double murders.

Read more: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/07/23/koh-tao-defense-says-police-never-checked-cctv-monitoring-pier

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2015-07-23

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

[stephenterry]

If this trial had any kind of credibility at all then the policeman who gave evidence would gladly hand over the hundreds of hours of cctv to the defense team so that they could double check it. Also it seems very fish that only a third of cameras 100/300 were working that night.. I find the story that 200 cameras simply out of action very hard to believe

While i can believe many of the cameras weren't working I can also believe many people not wanting to give any evidence that might end up with them hanging from a beam in their bedroom

it only needs one Thai woman seeing the b2 mothers crying to open up and the flood gates would open.

[docshock13]

Here's an update on the latest from the "perfect case" that the RTP put together.

http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

You can't make this shit up!....... How can people on here defend the RTP Clowns?

Un-effin-believable!!! Seems like all the most important bits of the investigation and crime scene data collection and analysis went into the "too hard" basket or were ignored early on based upon assumptions.

Shocking revelations in that article. No wonder there were gasps in the courtroom.

Seems as though their "ironclad" case has more holes than a sieve.

And the case being presented now is AFTER the prosecution told the RTP to go back 2 or 3 times (if I recall) to make sure everything in order and could stand up in the Thai law courts.

What did the first draft look like????I A handwritten note with "The bad guys did it" on it presented nicely in a pink plastic Hello Kitty file folder?

As for the evidence, seems like the dog ate their homework.

[Thaidream]

Something happened in the AC bar. Find out what and follow the trail. It will lead to the murderers whomever they may be.

[Slip]

The b2 were not wearing the same clothes as those caught on camera. Why would that not be relevant? Or am I missing something here.

Plainly irrelevant as I'm sure a shill will be along to confirm soon.

[bunglebag]

MikeENZ, who apparently provided some insights about life on KT and KP for the TIME Magazine "The Sceptic Isle" story casts doubt on the possibility that the son of an influential figure on the sceptic island could have committed or been involved in the rape and murders because he would have had too much too lose.

Personally I have no idea who committed the crimes and don't wish to point the finger of suspicion at anyone in particular. However, I would like to point out that MikeENZ's theory is inconsistent with the observed behaviour of the sons of wealthy and influential figures in Thailand. Without naming names or citing dates, I list from memory some incidents I recall over the years in Thailand.

- The son of an influential politician was alleged to have shot a policeman in the head at point blank range in a disco over an argument about someone stepping on his toe. No conviction.

- The son of a gangster associated with gambling dens in Bangkok shot the nephew of a Thai diplomat in the face non-fatally in a disco in Bangkok after the victim allegedly stepped on his toe. No prosecution.

- The son of an influential politician became irate when a pick-up truck cut in front of him on a Bangkok street. The pick-up truck was pulled over by bodyguards travelling in another car and the driver was beaten. The politician's son walked towards him and fired a shot that missed. Then he pointed the gun right at his head and pulled the trigger but it failed to fire. No prosecution.

- The son of a influential politician was pulled over by a traffic cop on Pattanakarn Road in Bangkok for a minor violation and got irate when the cop refused to let him go without booking him. So he pulled out his gun and shot the cop in the face non-fatally. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of an influential politician abducted a police sergeant over an unknown dispute and incarcerated him for 2 or 3 days. No charges pressed after a financial settlement.

- The son of a billionaire who sells cafeinated sugar water to gullible fools all over the world ran over a police sergeant and dragged him for 220 metres before tipping it on the road, ensuring death, if it had not already occurred. Then he attempted to get a family servant to claim responsibility for the crime in his place. He was charged but there has been no attempt to bring him to court and almost certainly the case will be allowed expire under Thailand's ridiculous statute of limitations.

- The son of an influential Isaan politician became irate when he was travelling in was overtaken by a pick-up truck on an isolated country road. He speeded up and overtook the pick-up so that he and at least one of his buddies could fire into the pick-up with their illegally carried handguns. The pick-up truck owner, a building contractor, was ready for them and returned fire with his own illegal handgun, killing the politician's son. LOL. The pick-up truck owner was prosecuted.

I could go on but I think this pattern illustrates something in the Thai psyche that MikeENZ obviously failed to learn during his brief stint in Thailand as an illegal worker in tourist resorts. Sons of wealthy and influential people are brought up with a sense of entitlement and impunity which makes them believe they can and have and do whatever they want and never have to face any consequences because Daddy will fix any problems that result. The above list indicates that they are often right. This makes their reflexes different from most less privileged people in Thailand or people living in rule of law jurisdictions, who are more likely to stop short at a point where they should be able to see a possibility of spending many years in prison. Since they don't feel they will have to face the consequences of their actions, they don't see any need to control their flashpoints and, in a country where face is so important, this can lead to some ugly situations.

Another point has been raised by other posters, i.e. why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai. In the case of the Katherine Horton murder in Samui, the authorities were happy to arrest and convict two Thai fishermen. No doubt Burmese fishermen would have been preferable but Thai fishermen are only a couple of rungs up the ladder and are also of no consequence.

why would police go to so much trouble and why would the case be escalated to such a high level to protect a fire dancing drifter, even if he was Thai

I think this is an interesting question. The explanation would go like this:

• Events leading to the murders started with a fight in AC Bar. Indeed, some of David's wounds may well have been received there.
• When Hannah and David left, the killers (casual and formal employees of the bar) followed.

Even if the bar escaped formal prosecution as sharing responsibility, the negative publicity would be devastating.

Note: I am not saying this is the only explanation, only that it is one of the plausible scenarios.

If they were even conscious when they left

[balo]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

Ok colonel Cherdpong , if this is true , that they actually have the footage , then for god sake check it now. So we at least can find out who the passengers on the boat were.

[stephenterry]

The b2 were not wearing the same clothes as those caught on camera. Why would that not be relevant? Or am I missing something here.

Plainly irrelevant as I'm sure a shill will be along to confirm soon.

I would welcome that. Probably tell him to go forth and multiply.

[eliotness]

How do you check for DNA traces with a magnifying glass ? Didn't think the killer(s) would have taken the boat that left 1 hour after the murders and didn't think that the B2 wearing different clothes than the suspect shown on CCTV was relevant !!!!!!!!! Oh my Buddha !

The earlier references to the Keystone Cops and Laurel & Hardy no longer apply, this is a real murder trial and even the most silly script writer could not have thought of such an all mighty cock-up. The RTP losing face has just gone thermo-nuclear. How on earth are they ever ever going to live this down !

[AleG]

Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed

There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.

By Sarah McBride in Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI: Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a beach close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed

Sky News 2015-07-23

Ok colonel Cherdpong , if this is true , that they actually have the footage , then for god sake check it now. So we at least can find out who the passengers on the boat were.

Very unlikely that a speedboat had left from the main pier, it is used by larger vessels; speedboats normally operate directly from the beach or from small piers at some resorts.

[balo]

Actually I think the translation must have been wrong.

They had the footage , not have,the footage or else I guess the court would demand to see it.