Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[metisdead]

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[Just1Voice]

jtj.JPG

I recommend to do this if you want peace and quiet from utter ridiculous comments.

Great idea!........... Now for the rest of the Glee club!

Have you seen this......http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

posted just 10 minutes ago......

The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

He also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation.

Instead the police will eliminate all these mafias, he said.

Meanwhile a police source said the police are also looking into the cooperation of those who helped to arrange the suspect to escape. They also will be arrested.

Tags: Bangkok., CCTV, escaped, hunting, mafias, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, scapegoats, Southern police chief, village headman.

Yeah, then he got replaced with another Top Cop, and suddenly everything changed. Talk about Bull Manure!

[partington]

The DNA evidence is totally irrelevant now. I'm sure there is no chain of evidence procedure in place to maintain its integrity. It could have been corrupted, doctored to give the result they want, or replaced with the local dog's! A pity, because if used correctly maybe there could have been a fair verdict in this case, with the guilty parties brought to justice.

The DNA evidence is far from irrelevant. Yesterday in court it was stated that the DNA from the 2 Burmese matched the semen found inside Hanna.

If a new sample of DNA from the Burmese matches the semen DNA then this would be pretty damning evidence imo.

If the samples do not match then they are off Scot free I'd guess.

Can you give a link or source for this? I'm trying to avoid the streams of juvenile fantasist detective work on here while trying to find out as accurately as possible what DNA evidence has actually been presented. I haven't seen any report that mentions specifically the victim's DNA results.

It seems like the case stands or falls on how reliable the DNA evidence is, and what exactly was done.

There are weird discrepancies in the accounts that could entirely result from bad reporting, translation errors and lack of scientific knowledge.

For example, accounts of the very public "DNA test" clearing a rumoured suspect. This test can't really have been done, as the police claimed in court not to have any knowledge of it.

But a DNA test in isolation cannot show anything: it is a fingerprint. To clear someone it must be compared with the results from the accused. This means that for the claims of "clearing" to be true, the police must have made available the results from the crime scene sample for comparison. Did they really hand out copies of the DNA results in a crucial murder case to a private individual before they made it available to the defense? And provide forensic expertise to read and interpret what must be a mix of two DNAs, in order to show neither was a match? Then claim no knowledge subsequently -this is surely very odd.

This makes me believe this entire account of the public DNA test is fictional.

[JohnThailandJohn]

It has been shared numerous times on these threads only for people to come back and act as though this was some quick transfer despite it being announced well in advance and despite the fact October is when they typically do transfers. What is the real joke though is people are acting like he was something special when he was the one who cleared Mon and stated he wasn't on the island.

Mon WAS on the island. No only on it, all over it. I think you mean Nomsod was not on the island? We shall see.

Thanks, had the names confused. Bottom line under him they cleared both and the family as well as Sean.

They didn't clear Sean, they got him off the island A.S.A.P. Not really the same as being cleared is it ? well if it fits your conspiracy then it probably is.

And getting names mixed up in a double murder investigation, tut tut.

Then again as with a few other you are not really bothered about those who got killed, just trying to cover the killers.

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

[berybert]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

I think it would have been better to have given the prosecution an extra day.

[apetley]

The DNA evidence is totally irrelevant now. I'm sure there is no chain of evidence procedure in place to maintain its integrity. It could have been corrupted, doctored to give the result they want, or replaced with the local dog's! A pity, because if used correctly maybe there could have been a fair verdict in this case, with the guilty parties brought to justice.

The DNA evidence is far from irrelevant. Yesterday in court it was stated that the DNA from the 2 Burmese matched the semen found inside Hanna.

If a new sample of DNA from the Burmese matches the semen DNA then this would be pretty damning evidence imo.

If the samples do not match then they are off Scot free I'd guess.

/sarcasm

Pshaww! A specialist that examined the actual physical evidence testifying in court that the semen matches the DNA of the men on trial is not evidence!

Some guy saying he heard from some other guy on the Internet that his GF's friend told her that everyone knows you-know-who did it, now that is evidence.

/sarcasm

For whatever reason my answer to this has been deleted so here's another try.

The head of the Police Forensic Unit in BKK is on record as saying all the testing was blind, didn't get any reports of who the test DNA belonged to which left control out of their hands and so removed the normal safeguards against switching.

This casts huge doubt on the validity of the evidence and I hope the semen DNA found inside Hanna can be retested against fresh DNA taken from the Burmese.

[Heisenbergg]

It has been shared numerous times on these threads only for people to come back and act as though this was some quick transfer despite it being announced well in advance and despite the fact October is when they typically do transfers. What is the real joke though is people are acting like he was something special when he was the one who cleared Mon and stated he wasn't on the island.

Mon WAS on the island. No only on it, all over it. I think you mean Nomsod was not on the island? We shall see.

Thanks, had the names confused. Bottom line under him they cleared both and the family as well as Sean.

They didn't clear Sean, they got him off the island A.S.A.P. Not really the same as being cleared is it ? well if it fits your conspiracy then it probably is.

And getting names mixed up in a double murder investigation, tut tut.

Then again as with a few other you are not really bothered about those who got killed, just trying to cover the killers.

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

So says you, JTJ. Doesn't change the fact that he implicated Mon and Nomsod and claimed to have evidence that directly linked them, evidence convincing enough that he declared the two tied to the crime by evidence he personally looked at. Do you think he would do that with no credible evidence? I don't, he knows who runs KT.... This was before damage control kicked in. After that anything he says will be influenced by whoever is pulling the strings.

[Si Thea01]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

Wadan. If you want to cajole me for the following then feel free to do? My opinion, because of the way you write, is that you are a troll, nothing more, nothing less.

Are you even a resident in Thailand? Given the manner in which you write it suggests not but then you maybe you are? Regardless, can you explain the need for such an ingracious post? I bet you can't. For someone to remain anonymous, come onto an open forum and post in such a denigrating manner, is, I believe, highly offensive, not only to me but to any Thai or anyone who, in any way, is in a relationship, has a friendship or an association with a Thai and has accepted this country as their homeland.

Your last sentence is extremely offensive and clearly that of a racist. And I do not call you this lightly. You have gone completely off topic in parts of you post and I wonder what the mods are doing in allowing this kind of garbage to remain? If you want to criticise certain parties, as you have, fine, as long as you can sustain that criticism but to openly decry all and sundry, then Thai society, in general, is totally irresponsible and highlights the flaws in one's character.

As for ianf, his response is an open book to his thoughts and to congratulate you on your piece of diatribe, he should also be ashamed but then he is obviously tarred with the same brush and has the same illegitimate thoughts as you proffer of a nation of some 68 million people. I would dare to say he doesn't even reside here either. Why are you two launching such a disgusting salvo on only one country? I can think of many other nations, who deserve more but then that would not suit the agenda you two seem to have. Will you be prepared to answer anything? If you do, it will make for some very interesting reading.

[uty6543]

It has been shared numerous times on these threads only for people to come back and act as though this was some quick transfer despite it being announced well in advance and despite the fact October is when they typically do transfers. What is the real joke though is people are acting like he was something special when he was the one who cleared Mon and stated he wasn't on the island.

Mon WAS on the island. No only on it, all over it. I think you mean Nomsod was not on the island? We shall see.

Thanks, had the names confused. Bottom line under him they cleared both and the family as well as Sean.

They didn't clear Sean, they got him off the island A.S.A.P. Not really the same as being cleared is it ? well if it fits your conspiracy then it probably is.

And getting names mixed up in a double murder investigation, tut tut.

Then again as with a few other you are not really bothered about those who got killed, just trying to cover the killers.

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

Only very gullible people would believe what a policeman (from any country) says unless all the available evidence also backs up his statements.

[JohnThailandJohn]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Could those of you who were brave enough to view the pictures of Hannah and particularly David confirm that the injuries to him could have been made by the blunt end of a hoe!! From everything I have seen and taken in his injuries were not consistent with a implement like that. I'm sure somebody will confirm or deny the possibility. Thanks

From the pictures they look like small splits of the skin which are opened quite wide and look to be not so very deep. Probably to the bone. On the head area it is obviously thin skin and flesh area. The pathologist claims they are what would be expected from a blow with a blunt end of the alleged murder weapon. There was large bruised area around each split.

I can see why people think they are more likely to have been caused with a different weapon but obviously these things can only be asscertained by specialists. I'm sure other specialists will have studied the pictures and expect the defence will use statements from at least one.

Let's be a little more bold. Every wound on David visible is made by a pointed thin weapon, similar to knife wounds only not quite as clean looking.

In my opinion, no way in hell those wounds made by the back of that hoe. The skin is punctured, not ruptured as it would be with the blunt side of that hoe. The blunt end would leave a wound more like a mallet.

As I stated earlier -- it is common (actually beyond common) when people admit to doing such a horrible thing they downplay it such as saying they were drunk (trying to make excuse for actions), saying they didn't mean to kill (BS) and proving this by saying they didn't use the sharp end of the hoe but remember they were drunk so it is really they didn't intend to use it. Also, the comments above was from their admission to their representative who is paraphrasing what they said ... they both didn't hold the hoe taking swings.

There are also so many variables to examining a wound and nobody here or for that matter any expert is going to be able to tell what caused the wound just by looking at limited pictures on the internet. Blunt object can indeed look like clean cuts to the naked eye or they can appear like tears of the skin. Things like amount of force, velocity of the blow mass of the weapon, distribution of force, the movement of the body, the amount of tissue/skin/fat/muscle/bone in the area .. just to name a few things. Bottom line is best to let the coroner's report deal with this but it is amusing to see the online detectives with all their sureness of what weapons were involved, and MANY have been mentioned.

[berybert]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

Wadan. If you want to cajole me for the following then feel free to do? My opinion, because of the way you write, is that you are a troll, nothing more, nothing less.

Are you even a resident in Thailand? Given the manner in which you write it suggests not but then you maybe you are? Regardless, can you explain the need for such an ingracious post? I bet you can't. For someone to remain anonymous, come onto an open forum and post in such a denigrating manner, is, I believe, highly offensive, not only to me but to any Thai or anyone who, in any way, is in a relationship, has a friendship or an association with a Thai and has accepted this country as their homeland.

Your last sentence is extremely offensive and clearly that of a racist. And I do not call you this lightly. You have gone completely off topic in parts of you post and I wonder what the mods are doing in allowing this kind of garbage to remain? If you want to criticise certain parties, as you have, fine, as long as you can sustain that criticism but to openly decry all and sundry, then Thai society, in general, is totally irresponsible and highlights the flaws in one's character.

As for ianf, his response is an open book to his thoughts and to congratulate you on you piece of diatribe, he should also be ashamed but then he is obviously tarred with the same brush and has the same illegitimate thoughts as you proffer of a nation of some 68 million people. I would dare to say he doesn't even reside here either. Why are you two launching such a disgusting salvo on only one country? I can think of many other nations, who deserve more but then that would not suit the agenda you two seem to have. Will you be prepared to answer anything? If you do, it will make for some very interesting reading.

I bet there are 100's of Farrang men who have lost every penny they have to a Thai woman who told them they loved them then left them for dead. And thousands of men in jail for crimes they didn't commit but couldn't pay their way out of it unlike the persons who committed the crimes, who would love to punch you straight between the eyes.

[ChrisY1]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

To the western people on here, Pornthip isn't worth a cracker.

However, here in Thailand, she's still the top forensic person they have....albeit that certain people of late have tried to silence her.

[thailandchilli]

So here we have a photo to confirm that the clothes had been moved. The RTP in court stated to the judge that the clothes were found in a neat pile, correct they were after someone had moved them from their original location:

A clear lie to the court and this officer should be up for perjury:

[Chetzee]

JTJ

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

[berybert]

Could those of you who were brave enough to view the pictures of Hannah and particularly David confirm that the injuries to him could have been made by the blunt end of a hoe!! From everything I have seen and taken in his injuries were not consistent with a implement like that. I'm sure somebody will confirm or deny the possibility. Thanks

From the pictures they look like small splits of the skin which are opened quite wide and look to be not so very deep. Probably to the bone. On the head area it is obviously thin skin and flesh area. The pathologist claims they are what would be expected from a blow with a blunt end of the alleged murder weapon. There was large bruised area around each split.

I can see why people think they are more likely to have been caused with a different weapon but obviously these things can only be asscertained by specialists. I'm sure other specialists will have studied the pictures and expect the defence will use statements from at least one.

Let's be a little more bold. Every wound on David visible is made by a pointed thin weapon, similar to knife wounds only not quite as clean looking.

In my opinion, no way in hell those wounds made by the back of that hoe. The skin is punctured, not ruptured as it would be with the blunt side of that hoe. The blunt end would leave a wound more like a mallet.

As I stated earlier -- it is common (actually beyond common) when people admit to doing such a horrible thing they downplay it such as saying they were drunk (trying to make excuse for actions), saying they didn't mean to kill (BS) and proving this by saying they didn't use the sharp end of the hoe but remember they were drunk so it is really they didn't intend to use it. Also, the comments above was from their admission to their representative who is paraphrasing what they said ... they both didn't hold the hoe taking swings.

There are also so many variables to examining a wound and nobody here or for that matter any expert is going to be able to tell what caused the wound just by looking at limited pictures on the internet. Blunt object can indeed look like clean cuts to the naked eye or they can appear like tears of the skin. Things like amount of force, velocity of the blow mass of the weapon, distribution of force, the movement of the body, the amount of tissue/skin/fat/muscle/bone in the area .. just to name a few things. Bottom line is best to let the coroner's report deal with this but it is amusing to see the online detectives with all their sureness of what weapons were involved, and MANY have been mentioned.

Leave it to the experts indeed. These will be the same people who couldn't find any of David's DNA on the hoe in question.

But these are the people the RTP shielders are asking us to trust.

Laughable.

[JohnThailandJohn]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

From what I saw of what was reported of the Police evidence in court, it was a single blow to the back of David's head. Both statements can't be correct, can they. However, they could both be wrong, couldn't they?

It definatly wasn't a single blow as someone previously on this thread had a mock up showing the numerous injuries on the various parts of his body. It sure wasn't a single blow. In fact having used a hoe on very many occasions very similar to the one shown in the scene of crime pictures I personally have absolutely no idea how the blunt end of said hoe could possibly cause injuries as indicated. I'm looking forward to hearing the leadingThai pathologist but more so the UK guy comment on both victims injuries as there seems to be doubts about both.

I think we all need to wait for the disclosures from the UK Forensic autopsy.

I suspect this will be the game changer.

While I think we would all like this released and used in the trial, I don't think it will ever be released. To my knowledge it was not part of any criminal investigation. Not sure of laws in UK but can't see any reason why they would make this public unless the family agrees to it.

One can certainly make some logical assumptions due to the UK Police who looked into the case and visited Thailand. One would assume they would have also looked at the UK autopsy before they even went to Thailand to make sure it matched with what Thai police shared with them. Based on the family's statements after the UK police finished looking into the merits of the case, one would have to assume the police saw nothing out of line.

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

The family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller’s family said.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

[thailandchilli]

JTJ

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

[moonray]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI — The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

PARTINGTON! be realistic! those empty plastic boxes(dummies) were in use not only in Thailand,but mostly in Iraq during war there,on THE WAR THEATER!

Who was running that war?USA,UK and others.

What about CIA,MI6,BMV,ABW etc and...Mossad? that bold blunder was going on under their noses for years.Can you say who detected the fraud?

why you blame her?

you are the resident shiill here.

[Nigeone]

I bet there are 100's of Farrang men who have lost every penny they have to a Thai woman who told them they loved them then left them for dead after taking every last penny. And thousands of men in jail for crimes they didn't commit but couldn't pay their way out of it unlike the persons who committed the crimes, who would love to punch you straight between the eyes.

Your right and I'm one of them having had a wonderful relationship for 7 years then got ill and how I've ended up with nothing having lost my house in Thailand and so much money spent on it. It's so very hard to take but I'm alive aren't I unlike Hannah and David , and I have met some wonderful honest people in Thailand and still have friends there who I hope to visit soon if I can.

That is one reason I feel so strongly about this case as I so hate unjust situations and I feel this is one. As I said I can rise again

poor Hannah and David can't. It's also heartened me to see how strong opinions are in this forum and apart from a few I quite honestly have no respect for the majority of people here are also like me don't like injustice.

[Si Thea01]

Thailand: the land of the jungle law.

This country's leadership and justice system are the ones who should be on trial here. They are making a mockery of decency and intelligence. I listened to this Colonel's responses to the investigation where he is supposed to be in charge.

For everyone of the questions from the defence, his answer....I DONT KNOW.

EVERY THING YOU ASK HIM....I DONT KNOW

This is crap who is supposed to be qualified to be a police and a lead investigator.

there are two things, if he truly does not know then it means he is not qualified to be a police and certainly unfit to be an investigator. He is not qualified to be in this role. The people who employ him should know that. if they don't, then they too are not qualified to place personal in positions of authority.

If he does know and responds that he doesn't , then he is lying. He is lying on the stand. this is purgury. he should be charged , stripped of his title, and jailed.

The what is the position to the judges listening to this crap. what are they up to . and how are they responding to all this?

I read an excellent post about the justice system and how the judges are chosen. This post also mentioned among other things about the quantity of bribe money involved. they also shed light about the remarkable about the absence of the headman and his clan , now lying low.

One wonders if the judges are part of the bribe . This 30 million baht probably has already secured the judges verdict.

The more i read of this nightmare, the sicker i get.

people who are supposed to be leaders, acting in the interest of the public, willingly taking bribes, disturbingly allowing innocent persons to suffer for the crimes of human thrash. what kind of person would see someone suffer innocently just because they get money.

this is a classic jungle society. eat or be eaten. kill or be killed. no morals, no values, no conscience.. no humanity, no decency. in short this are not humans. they are the lowest form of animals.

An absolutely brilliant post that says everything about Thailand. This is indeed how it works.

Wadan. If you want to cajole me for the following then feel free to do? My opinion, because of the way you write, is that you are a troll, nothing more, nothing less.

Are you even a resident in Thailand? Given the manner in which you write it suggests not but then you maybe you are? Regardless, can you explain the need for such an ingracious post? I bet you can't. For someone to remain anonymous, come onto an open forum and post in such a denigrating manner, is, I believe, highly offensive, not only to me but to any Thai or anyone who, in any way, is in a relationship, has a friendship or an association with a Thai and has accepted this country as their homeland.

Your last sentence is extremely offensive and clearly that of a racist. And I do not call you this lightly. You have gone completely off topic in parts of you post and I wonder what the mods are doing in allowing this kind of garbage to remain? If you want to criticise certain parties, as you have, fine, as long as you can sustain that criticism but to openly decry all and sundry, then Thai society, in general, is totally irresponsible and highlights the flaws in one's character.

As for ianf, his response is an open book to his thoughts and to congratulate you on you piece of diatribe, he should also be ashamed but then he is obviously tarred with the same brush and has the same illegitimate thoughts as you proffer of a nation of some 68 million people. I would dare to say he doesn't even reside here either. Why are you two launching such a disgusting salvo on only one country? I can think of many other nations, who deserve more but then that would not suit the agenda you two seem to have. Will you be prepared to answer anything? If you do, it will make for some very interesting reading.

I bet there are 100's of Farrang men who have lost every penny they have to a Thai woman who told them they loved them then left them for dead after taking every last penny. And thousands of men in jail for crimes they didn't commit but couldn't pay their way out of it unlike the persons who committed the crimes, who would love to punch you straight between the eyes.

I won't be drawn into a comprehensive battle of words with you or those of your kind because you can't unless you resort to the attack dog style you have posted but I will respond just this once. You can flame as much as you like, if it gives you your jollies.

Happiness is, but obviously you wouldn't know what that is, would you? If they have lost all, more fool them, do their homework first and stop thinking with what is between their legs. For everyone that has experienced failure, there are many more who have experienced success, me being one of them. You sound like you have a problem, first with words, now resorting to posting an insightful response suggesting violence.

A violent man I would suggest, one who cannot control his temper and wants to carry on about something that it appears you have had experience with. A failure are we? You know what can happen if some gets hit right between the eyes, it is well documented. Your response clearly highlights the type of person you are and one clearly, that needs some help because he has no way with words. I see that you want to carry on like a child because an adult does not act in such a manner. So good luck to you.

[Chetzee]

JTJ

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

Really ! r u saying he's trying to make fact from fiction , like showing off a few dodgy stilsl from a BBk appartment . ..... or like having a dna test on MON at the local police station , and him cleared and the dna confirmed as not matching with in 3 hours .....?

[thailandchilli]

JTJ

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

Here it is a link to something that has been shared numerous times on this thread for those who keep wanted to pretend things and/or too ignorant to look up facts themselves and prefer to make things up. Other links shared on these boards actually show the date of the promotion being 10/1 along with numerous other transfers around the country.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/21/national/Police-promotions-30136311.html

Published on August 21, 2010

Police promotions

"Deputy Metropolitan Police commissioner MajGeneral Amnuay Niammano and Central Investigation Bureau deputy commissioner MajGeneral Panya Mamen are set to be promoted to the commissioners of provincial police regions," the same source added.

Now you've got me confused, whats a report from 2010 got to do with 2014 and the link you said you had confirming Panya's promotion proir to the 15th?

[Chetzee]

JTJ

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

Really ! r u saying he's trying to make fact from fiction , like showing off a few dodgy stills from a BBk appartment . ..... or like having a dna test on MON at the local police station , and him cleared and the dna confirmed as not matching with in 3 hours .....?

[Nigeone]

Apologize if this has been posted before but this is the first time I've seen an extra day added to the trial and we also have confirmation that Dr Pornthip will attend for the defense.

SURAT THANI The head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science will testify in defense of two Burmese men accused of killing two British backpackers in southern Thailand last year.

Judges ruled on Friday to add an additional day to the trial to allow for CIFS director Pornthip Rojanasunand to take the witness stand at Koh Samui Provincial Court on 11 September. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

Just have to wait for certain posters now to come along and discredit her some more..yawn

She discredited herself by her actions. This is a completely justified claim, as she continues to insist that empty plastic boxes, made in the garden shed of confidence tricksters who are now in an English jail for fraud, work as bomb , drug and human remains detectors, through methods "that science can't explain".

You can be very convinced that the case against the two Burmese seems flimsy and incompetent, and still be appalled at the calling of such a person as a defence witness.

There is no discrepancy between wanting the accused in this case to have the best defence possible, and distrusting the objectivity and expertise of one of the defence witnesses. I would not want her defending me, in a case where influence could be brought to bear on her by the people who gave her her job back.

To the western people on here, Pornthip isn't worth a cracker.

However, here in Thailand, she's still the top forensic person they have....albeit that certain people of late have tried to silence her.

They have to know what she's going to offer to the defense or they would not need to call her. They don't need a forensic expert as such as they have a very very highly qualified expert on board already. I think it's going to be very interesting to see what's she's going to offer and my guess it's about procedures carried out or not carried out by RTP.

[Heisenbergg]

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island of Koh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Today, [Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun] signed power of attorney to the embassys legal team, said lawyer Aung Myo Thant on Monday. We will try to offer them any assistance we can from a legal perspective.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

Could those of you who were brave enough to view the pictures of Hannah and particularly David confirm that the injuries to him could have been made by the blunt end of a hoe!! From everything I have seen and taken in his injuries were not consistent with a implement like that. I'm sure somebody will confirm or deny the possibility. Thanks

From the pictures they look like small splits of the skin which are opened quite wide and look to be not so very deep. Probably to the bone. On the head area it is obviously thin skin and flesh area. The pathologist claims they are what would be expected from a blow with a blunt end of the alleged murder weapon. There was large bruised area around each split.

I can see why people think they are more likely to have been caused with a different weapon but obviously these things can only be asscertained by specialists. I'm sure other specialists will have studied the pictures and expect the defence will use statements from at least one.

Let's be a little more bold. Every wound on David visible is made by a pointed thin weapon, similar to knife wounds only not quite as clean looking.

In my opinion, no way in hell those wounds made by the back of that hoe. The skin is punctured, not ruptured as it would be with the blunt side of that hoe. The blunt end would leave a wound more like a mallet.

As I stated earlier -- it is common (actually beyond common) when people admit to doing such a horrible thing they downplay it such as saying they were drunk (trying to make excuse for actions), saying they didn't mean to kill (BS) and proving this by saying they didn't use the sharp end of the hoe but remember they were drunk so it is really they didn't intend to use it. Also, the comments above was from their admission to their representative who is paraphrasing what they said ... they both didn't hold the hoe taking swings.

There are also so many variables to examining a wound and nobody here or for that matter any expert is going to be able to tell what caused the wound just by looking at limited pictures on the internet. Blunt object can indeed look like clean cuts to the naked eye or they can appear like tears of the skin. Things like amount of force, velocity of the blow mass of the weapon, distribution of force, the movement of the body, the amount of tissue/skin/fat/muscle/bone in the area .. just to name a few things. Bottom line is best to let the coroner's report deal with this but it is amusing to see the online detectives with all their sureness of what weapons were involved, and MANY have been mentioned.

The weapon used on David looks like a shark bite... As in, punctured skull. PUNCTURED. I don't see a single point on the hoe that could do that without causing much more damage. I do agree people downplay their guilt... I'm also nat t saying I'm 100% sure B2 weren't somehow dragged into this by the killers. I still don't find it very likely they're the sole culprits. I never claimed to be an expert on analyzing wounds... But come on, John. If you've bothered to look at the pictures you couldn't possibly spout this nonsense.

[berybert]

I think we all need to wait for the disclosures from the UK Forensic autopsy.

I suspect this will be the game changer.

While I think we would all like this released and used in the trial, I don't think it will ever be released. To my knowledge it was not part of any criminal investigation. Not sure of laws in UK but can't see any reason why they would make this public unless the family agrees to it.

One can certainly make some logical assumptions due to the UK Police who looked into the case and visited Thailand. One would assume they would have also looked at the UK autopsy before they even went to Thailand to make sure it matched with what Thai police shared with them. Based on the family's statements after the UK police finished looking into the merits of the case, one would have to assume the police saw nothing out of line.

In statements released through Britain's Foreign Office, the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us," Witheridge's family said in a statement.

The family of Miller criticised "increasing sensationalism of this story" and said that "speculation" should be suspended until all evidence is made public.

"The support for the Myanmar suspects has been strong and vocal, but please do not jump to conclusions until you have considered the evidence from both sides in full," Miller’s family said.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing."

I do hope we get to see the same evidence the families have seen.

When the top cop was asked yesterday if the pair still had a strong case to answer he replied 'I don't know'

[berybert]

JTJ

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

Here it is a link to something that has been shared numerous times on this thread for those who keep wanted to pretend things and/or too ignorant to look up facts themselves and prefer to make things up. Other links shared on these boards actually show the date of the promotion being 10/1 along with numerous other transfers around the country.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/21/national/Police-promotions-30136311.html

Published on August 21, 2010

Police promotions

"Deputy Metropolitan Police commissioner MajGeneral Amnuay Niammano and Central Investigation Bureau deputy commissioner MajGeneral Panya Mamen are set to be promoted to the commissioners of provincial police regions," the same source added.

So please stop the nonsense of how he was taken off the case and was doing such a great job. When he left, the case was receiving huge attention for what people were calling coverups and botched. He cleared all the Headsman's family as well as Sean and was the one who confirmed publicly the one kid was in Bangkok and no longer a suspect. He also announced the day after his transfer arrests would be happening in days and they were.

I must advise those who support JTJ ........ DO NOT LOOK AT THE DATE PUBLISHED ON THIS ARTICAL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe now you should give up JTJ.

[JohnThailandJohn]

It has been shared numerous times on these threads only for people to come back and act as though this was some quick transfer despite it being announced well in advance and despite the fact October is when they typically do transfers. What is the real joke though is people are acting like he was something special when he was the one who cleared Mon and stated he wasn't on the island.

Mon WAS on the island. No only on it, all over it. I think you mean Nomsod was not on the island? We shall see.

Thanks, had the names confused. Bottom line under him they cleared both and the family as well as Sean.

They didn't clear Sean, they got him off the island A.S.A.P. Not really the same as being cleared is it ? well if it fits your conspiracy then it probably is.

And getting names mixed up in a double murder investigation, tut tut.

Then again as with a few other you are not really bothered about those who got killed, just trying to cover the killers.

Well fun for some to make things up, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen stated publicly he was not a suspect after they looked into and questioned him.

So says you, JTJ. Doesn't change the fact that he implicated Mon and Nomsod and claimed to have evidence that directly linked them, evidence convincing enough that he declared the two tied to the crime by evidence he personally looked at. Do you think he would do that with no credible evidence? I don't, he knows who runs KT.... This was before damage control kicked in. After that anything he says will be influenced by whoever is pulling the strings.

They were both cleared by him along with numerous other people he and his team named as suspects including the farang friends (one who had blood on his pants but then didn't). He publicly cleared all the people he publicly names as being suspects or involved. Interesting too is he had no problem publicly naming the headsman as family as suspects yet the whole conspiracy theory is based on the fact this family wields so much power and police fear them. The police had no problem at all causing all these public accusations and people (like you) are still going back to the MANY inaccurate or since corrected statements and info from early in the case and pretending there are no updates.

[StealthEnergiser]

So here we have a photo to confirm that the clothes had been moved. The RTP in court stated to the judge that the clothes were found in a neat pile, correct they were after someone had moved them from their original location:

A clear lie to the court and this officer should be up for perjury:

to add to this you can see Hannah in both photos with the same clothing in different places.

[SamuiLoner]

The court in Koh Samui heard that the senior investigating police chief and his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat, which left an hour or so after the estimated time of death of the pair.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

Interesting that the officer was quoted as saying "the killer" (Singular) and "did not believe the killer would have taken that boat". Does this boil down to, he knows the killer took another boat.? Or is this just another piece of reporting lost in translation.?

There is no singular or plural in Thai, so I would imagine that would be why

So why would he refer to his "Officers" (plural) beforehand..?