Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[stephenterry]

Unfortunately, all the indications of a compromised crime scene could play out favorably for Mon and Nomsod if they and their weapon-wielding buddies are ever brought to trial for this crime (which they should, in my opinion). Particularly Mon, as it's clear he was active within the crime scene from the get-go (probably even before the sun came up). Similarly, Thai officials botching up the DNA could be to the Headman's peoples' advantage. Perhaps that's part of RTP/Headman's peoples' plan and would partly explain why they're botching up and delaying scrutiny of the DNA evidence. Officials and Mon aren't as eager to see the B2 found guilty as they are to save their own skins.

[stephenterry]

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

The counter argument is that this thread keeps it in the public eye. I have learnt a few more things that casual readers could benefit from. I ignore the dross but others may not. Up to them.

[bunglebag]

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

The counter argument is that this thread keeps it in the public eye. I have learnt a few more things that casual readers could benefit from. I ignore the dross but others may not. Up to them.

I hear what you are saying and you are correct - I'm not advising to stop discussing etc. Just feels like engaging and indulging the hardcore defenders repeatedly every time they ask for something may not be the best use of time.

This thread should be kept in the public eye as much as possible, and indeed some misunderstandings have been cleared up from time to time (though usually as a result of 2 or more people from the same side discussing a point, not because of something a defender has said). This is good because none of us want to be basing things on erroneous information.

But when someone keeps posting numerous repetitive enormous (quoted) posts etc. and others keep responding pages quickly become filled with large swathes of repetitive clag which makes it more effort to follow and to find the useful information.

Reading page after page in one go it just comes across that the defenders want to bloat, distract and argue - doesn't even matter what is being discussed.

I do stand by my original comment that I think regardless of what is presented to the defenders they will never change their official opinions so why waste too much time on them. Point out errors/problems with their arguments and move on rather than be drawn in. That's just my opinion though and I shall head back to my observation point on the sidelines for now.

Edited to add that I'm not actually against the presence of the defenders, nor even some of their contributions because it is important to have some people presenting alternative views. I just find it a pain and distracting how much time & screen real estate then gets wasted after going round and round - you can lead a horse to water etc, but these horses ain't gonna drink.

Edited July 30, 2015 by bunglebag

[StealthEnergiser]

September 2014

my opinion only reading through the lines this may have been where a cover up started

Thailand beach murders: Police must break through code of silence on island where backpackers died

Thailand’s top police chief shook my hand and promised he would catch the killer of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller .

But it has been over a week now and police are absolutely no closer to solving the crime.

I spoke to Thailand’s top police chief Somyot Poompanmoung - their equivalent of the Chief Constable of the Met Police.

The Royal Thai Commissioner pledged the people responsible for the horrendous crime would be brought to justice.

He seemed to be focused on the job in hand but so little progress has been made.

First British tourists were being blamed.

Then lowly paid Burmese immigrants.

And then the Brits again.

Andy Lines speaks with Police Colonel Prachum Ruangthong

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-police-must-4306103

Thailand beach murders: Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have argued in bar with gangster

Murdered British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have been in a row in a bar with a local gangster who tried to chat her up.

But there were also fears the killer may already have fled the tiny Thai island of Koh Tao where the pair died.

Police are probing claims a drug called “ya ba” - pill available in certain bars on the island - may have been involved in the murder.

They are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders.

Meanwhile DNA found on her body came from two unknown Asian men, tests revealed.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

[glenmohr]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

I don't know about the Thai legal system, but under UK law Sean would be guilty of murder if he was merely in a group of people and one of that group committed the actual murder. There was a case where a guy murdered somebody in a pizza shop and the driver of the getaway car was also convicted of murder, even though he was in the car outside the sop at the time. So Sean could be 'guilty by association' and that would explain him running away and keeping schtum.

Why didn't the Thai police hold him for questioning given the bloodied guitar? That's almost a smoking gun, under the circumstances. At the very least you'd expect a statement to have been recorded. But what we have is a policeman at the pier shaking hands with Sean as he leaves the island. Is it normal for cops to see people off, unless they want to be sure that person really has gone?

Some of believe NC that Sean was escorted off the Island because he had a fairly good idea who did it.

[boomerangutang]

Note: every tough-guy connected to Mon and the Headman, about 9 to 15 guys, erased their Facebook activities for the week before and several weeks after the crime. That alone should send up warning flags for anyone investigating. Besides a dozen other items of interest (phone records, weaponized rings they wear, history of carrying guns, numerous allegations of date-rape, fights often in beach bars, etc) that RTP didn't look into, there should be some scrutiny of FB activity. That's assuming RTP really want to find who did the crime, which is a big assumption. Facebook history can be erased, but it's not erased 100%. Law enforcement can access activity if they choose. But even if RTP wanted to pursue that, it's doubtful they would be able to. They're so computer-inept, they don't even know how to store digital pics.

[glenmohr]

I still think running man was wearing Davids shorts as he moved between the crime scene and (unknown) 2 times for whatever reason (also unknown) as

1. They are very obviously to big for him and possibly look wet

2. If involved in the murders his own clothes were likely heavily soiled with blood and that would have been clearly noticed by people in the street, he was also shirtless

I would also pontificate that out of all the various cctv footage that we have seen from the area - there must be better quality images than the one initially released by police early in the investigation

I think we can add to that Smedly that it would be extremely rare for the son of a rich man to go out jogging at 4.00 am shirtless and in shorts which do not fit. Thais are very fussy about dress and appearance.

[steffi]

Note the similarity with all of the Nomsod walking footage and that of number 9

I believe it to be the same person.

When David shakes hand with Number 9 who has not been identified as far as I know ,it is opposite a roti sellers shop would that be the same one as the roti seller ,translator that allegedly assaulted the b2 ?

If so maybe the defence should ask if he knows who number 9 is put him under oath but that probably won't help.

[steffi]

Seriously GB what official role does Mon have at being at the crime scene? His presence alone constitutes contamination.

[Gulfsailor]

Note: every tough-guy connected to Mon and the Headman, about 9 to 15 guys, erased their Facebook activities for the week before and several weeks after the crime. That alone should send up warning flags for anyone investigating. Besides a dozen other items of interest (phone records, weaponized rings they wear, history of carrying guns, numerous allegations of date-rape, fights often in beach bars, etc) that RTP didn't look into, there should be some scrutiny of FB activity. That's assuming RTP really want to find who did the crime, which is a big assumption. Facebook history can be erased, but it's not erased 100%. Law enforcement can access activity if they choose. But even if RTP wanted to pursue that, it's doubtful they would be able to. They're so computer-inept, they don't even know how to store digital pics.

Facebook is not very forthcoming when it comes to requests/demands from authorities for deleted content and/or user info. In a famous ongoing case in the Netherlands authorities asked for information about the poster of some damaging very personal content about another person. Facebook kept declining to hand over the requested data. It went to court and court ordered Facebook to disclose the information. Facebook still declined. Then after a few months Facebook said "sorry, we only store user info and deleted content for 90 days". Judge now ordered Facebook to give full access to all its systems to an impartial expert to see if that is true.

[smedly]

Note: every tough-guy connected to Mon and the Headman, about 9 to 15 guys, erased their Facebook activities for the week before and several weeks after the crime. That alone should send up warning flags for anyone investigating. Besides a dozen other items of interest (phone records, weaponized rings they wear, history of carrying guns, numerous allegations of date-rape, fights often in beach bars, etc) that RTP didn't look into, there should be some scrutiny of FB activity. That's assuming RTP really want to find who did the crime, which is a big assumption. Facebook history can be erased, but it's not erased 100%. Law enforcement can access activity if they choose. But even if RTP wanted to pursue that, it's doubtful they would be able to. They're so computer-inept, they don't even know how to store digital pics.

I also get the distinct impression that the investigating team have spent more time and effort hiding/destroying evidence as it is discovered because it would implicate certain people and go some way to exonerate the accused, something that would be highly criminal in the west.

We in the west take for granted the integrity of investigators and their actual intent to find those who are responsible for serious crime, we expect and demand that that will always be their primary focus and objective and it generally is

Thailand is a very different animal on multiple levels and I won't go into that as most people here understand exactly what I mean, the problem occurs when we have a high profile case such as this one involving foreign nationals, we start applying those western high standards expectations and principles that most of us understand to the often unprofessional adhoc often corrupt system in operation in Thailand, the result is obvious and can clearly be seen in many of the discussions taking place on social media sites such as TVF were the Thai authorities and police are being held to account at every juncture.

[thailandchilli]

Still cant get my head round this image and how much of it is original and how may have been altered. The source and explanation is here http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

[IslandLover]

Still cant get my head round this image and how much of it is original and how may have been altered. The source and explanation is here http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

I'm starting to think that this image is of Mon. Is he on his way to the crime scene? He is carrying something in his right hand. Could it be the towel that was used to cover Hannah's face?

[thailandchilli]

Still cant get my head round this image and how much of it is original and how may have been altered. The source and explanation is here http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

I'm starting to think that this image is of Mon. Is he on his way to the crime scene? He is carrying something in his right hand. Could it be the towel that was used to cover Hannah's face?

Now thats a possiblity. He is for sure carrying something in his right hand so could well be the green towel from his In Touch resort. We also know he called the RTP on the way to the scene so that would explain the phone

[steffi]

Does anybody have a profile pic of Mon vs Nomsod? I've always believed this is Nomsod because of the way he walks. Somebody should post footage of Mon walking for comparison.

Still cant get my head round this image and how much of it is original and how may have been altered. The source and explanation is here http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

I'm starting to think that this image is of Mon. Is he on his way to the crime scene? He is carrying something in his right hand. Could it be the towel that was used to cover Hannah's face?

[boomerangutang]

I wish Sean would take the witness stand. I don't care if he's a party animal or has a checkered past.

He must know things which would point to the real culprits. I actually believe what Sean said in the interview in the Song-taow (p.u. truck taxi). And I believe what he said in the convenience store when he was cowering, and took that photo. If that photo had not been taken, Headman shielders on here would be screaming about how that scenario was a complete fantasy thought up by Thai-hating conspiracy theorists.

His online statement to the effect (I can't recall the exact words) "If I die soon, then it was Mon and his friend who did it." then he adds a qualifier which states he (Sean) is not saying Mon did the crime, but instead saying if he (Sean) is found dead, then it was orchestrated by Mon.

In other words, Sean is saying he was threatened with hanging (bullies saying; "you should hang yourself"). Why would those two men threaten Sean's life? The most plausible reason: because he knew things about the crime, and could possibly implicate those bullies (or their friends and family members) who took part in it.

Edited July 30, 2015 by boomerangutang

[Darkknight666]

Still cant get my head round this image and how much of it is original and how may have been altered. The source and explanation is here http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

So, Panya did use computer forensics to identify suspects who were not only near by at the time, But seen running away..... Like many have said, Panya wouldn't implicate someone he knows is this high up without damn good evidence. All it would take is to either use available forensic science already in Bangkok (that can be trusted) or a forensic "crack" team from the west to bust this case wide open.... Oh I'm sorry, I forgot where I was momentarily... Fat chance.

[steffi]

Consider the possibility that they could implicate Sean in this or another crime. There's little upside for Sean to testify as he obviously has no conscience.

I wish Sean would take the witness stand. I don't care if he's a party animal or has a checkered past. I'm not asking to go out on a date with him.

He must know things which would point to the real culprits. I actually believe what Sean said in the interview in the Song-taow (p.u. truck taxi). And I believe what he said in the convenience store when he was cowering, and took that photo. If that photo had not been taken, Headman shielders on here would be screaming about how that scenario was a complete fantasy thought up by Thai-hating conspiracy theorists.

The only thing I've heard (attributed to Sean), thus far, which I think is off-kilter is his online statement to the effect (I can't recall the exact words) "I'm not saying Mon is the killer, but if I die soon, then it was Mon and his friend who did it." In other words, Sean is saying he was threatened with hanging (bullies saying; "you should hang yourself"). Why would those two men threaten Sean's life? Only one reason: because he knew too much, and could possibly implicate those bullies (or their friends and family members) who took part in the crime.

[boomerangutang]

I still think running man was wearing Davids shorts as he moved between the crime scene and (unknown) 2 times for whatever reason (also unknown) as

1. They are very obviously to big for him and possibly look wet

2. If involved in the murders his own clothes were likely heavily soiled with blood and that would have been clearly noticed by people in the street, he was also shirtless

I would also pontificate that out of all the various cctv footage that we have seen from the area - there must be better quality images than the one initially released by police early in the investigation

I think we can add to that Smedly that it would be extremely rare for the son of a rich man to go out jogging at 4.00 am shirtless and in shorts which do not fit. Thais are very fussy about dress and appearance.

Running Man's identity is like 'flavor of the month' with RTP investigators. Initially, the first police team was sure it was Nomsod and announced that an arrest was imminent. Then Mon somehow convinced cops it was him. Nearly as ridiculous as thinking it's Mon is what prosecution want the judges to now think: it's one of the B2 - both of whom are a foot shorter than Running Man. For several reason, I and many others agree with the investigative team's first assessment: It is Nomsod.

[steffi]

My guess is the original investigating police officer had access to more CCTV footage than the public has seen.

[ quote name=Darkknight666" post="9680989" timestamp="1438262062]

Still cant get my head round this image and how much of it is original and how may have been altered. The source and explanation is here http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

So, Panya did use computer forensics to identify suspects who were not only near by at the time, But seen running away..... Like many have said, Panya wouldn't implicate someone he knows is this high up without damn good evidence. All it would take is to either use available forensic science already in Bangkok (that can be trusted) or a forensic "crack" team from the west to bust this case wide open.... Oh I'm sorry, I forgot where I was momentarily... Fat chance.

[Darkknight666]

I wish Sean would take the witness stand. I don't care if he's a party animal or has a checkered past.

He must know things which would point to the real culprits. I actually believe what Sean said in the interview in the Song-taow (p.u. truck taxi). And I believe what he said in the convenience store when he was cowering, and took that photo. If that photo had not been taken, Headman shielders on here would be screaming about how that scenario was a complete fantasy thought up by Thai-hating conspiracy theorists.

His online statement to the effect (I can't recall the exact words) "If I die soon, then it was Mon and his friend who did it." then he adds a qualifier which states he (Sean) is not saying Mon did the crime, but instead saying if he (Sean) is found dead, then it was orchestrated by Mon.

In other words, Sean is saying he was threatened with hanging (bullies saying; "you should hang yourself"). Why would those two men threaten Sean's life? The most plausible reason: because he knew things about the crime, and could possibly implicate those bullies (or their friends and family members) who took part in it.

Quite right, they wouldn't threaten a scape goat, they'd just scape goat him.... What've that may entail. You threaten someone when they can implicate you or provide detail to a crime. Sean May not know what happened on the beach exactly, but he knows a good place to start sniffing around.

[StealthEnergiser]

[Darkknight666]

Assets of the B2: Family, A proper defense, Heidi Anna... Attention from observers and human rights causes.

Assets of probable killers: Money, Property, influence, proper defense, political connections, benefit of doubt, nation mostly full of people who accept what they're told whether true or not. Face, affluence, etc, etc, etc X 2000.

There would be much more evidence on the B2 if they did this all by alone.... All the prosecution has is DNA nobody has verified.. Not even the lead investigator.

It's a matter of discretion, and the bias is massive. Convicting the B2 with solid evidence would help TAT's image, stringing them up without any will hurt it.

[thailandchilli]

Ok so I'm sure this is 2 separate people. Running man in the vid has a different body profile and looks a much younger man as opposed to the image. In addition the image and vid have the same background shop, but there must be 2 separate cctv cameras as the head shot in the image is above the bottom of the window, but if you look at the running man vid at 0.23 then you will see the angle is with the running mans head well below the window.

Yes I think RTP have more cctv and this is proof that they are holding back more images of the 2 separate men

Edited July 30, 2015 by thailandchilli

[bunglebag]

Can anyone advise the location of that cctv camera?

I presume it's further away from the crime scene than InTouch resort? Is it somewhere between AC Resort and InTouch resort?

[alfalfa19]

I still think running man was wearing Davids shorts as he moved between the crime scene and (unknown) 2 times for whatever reason (also unknown) as

1. They are very obviously to big for him and possibly look wet

2. If involved in the murders his own clothes were likely heavily soiled with blood and that would have been clearly noticed by people in the street, he was also shirtless

I would also pontificate that out of all the various cctv footage that we have seen from the area - there must be better quality images than the one initially released by police early in the investigation

I think we can add to that Smedly that it would be extremely rare for the son of a rich man to go out jogging at 4.00 am shirtless and in shorts which do not fit. Thais are very fussy about dress and appearance.

I remember, I think it was the day after the investigation "changed course" they publicized a still from the running man video, showing numbnuts , his faced entirely obscured by a cartoon beard, clumsily added by somebody. The new photo said something like: beard superimposed, without any explanation.

[StealthEnergiser]

September 2014

my opinion only reading through the lines this may have been where a cover up started

Thailand beach murders: Police must break through code of silence on island where backpackers died

Thailand’s top police chief shook my hand and promised he would catch the killer of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller .

But it has been over a week now and police are absolutely no closer to solving the crime.

I spoke to Thailand’s top police chief Somyot Poompanmoung - their equivalent of the Chief Constable of the Met Police.

The Royal Thai Commissioner pledged the people responsible for the horrendous crime would be brought to justice.

He seemed to be focused on the job in hand but so little progress has been made.

First British tourists were being blamed.

Then lowly paid Burmese immigrants.

And then the Brits again.

Andy Lines speaks with Police Colonel Prachum Ruangthong

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-police-must-4306103

Thailand beach murders: Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have argued in bar with gangster

Murdered British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller may have been in a row in a bar with a local gangster who tried to chat her up.

But there were also fears the killer may already have fled the tiny Thai island of Koh Tao where the pair died.

Police are probing claims a drug called “ya ba” - pill available in certain bars on the island - may have been involved in the murder.

They are also trying to trace a mystery western woman seen on CCTV running along the main street in the early hours on the night of the murders.

Meanwhile DNA found on her body came from two unknown Asian men, tests revealed.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

just added a couple of photos

[StealthEnergiser]

[AleG]

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

"The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc"

The topic of this thread is Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists, people looking for information regarding that topic would be expected to find it here, instead the same group of overexcited conspiracy theorist are, once again, turning it into an All-you-can-make-up buffet. Repeating the same mantras, reposting the same pictures and videos (it must be the tenth time StealthEnergizer posts that video in the previous post) and so on and so forth.

So no, it's the people that want to drag their pet theories into a discussion of the trial the ones that are misdirecting things.

[Darkknight666]

Another motive I question. Why would Sonti say all this pretty openly when he could be sued for libel or defamation or whatever BS charges came up? He said "we shouldn't talk about the evidence right now". Why?

People in the know have got it right. I suppose the questions are worthless now as the all the glory boys have gone silent.