Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

[Lite Beer]

Govt 'should respect right to criticise'
PRATCH RUJIVANAROM
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS SAY INTERIM CHARTER ALLOWS PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SPEAK

ACADEMICS have called on the government to respect people's rights under Section 4 of the interim charter and give citizens the freedom to criticise government policies that affect communities.

They also suggested that the government amend minor laws on natural-resource management to boost public participation and reduce bureaucratic limitations.

A discussion on community rights was held at Kasetsart University yesterday, during which the participants attacked the government for suppressing community rights to defend the environment and ensure the well-being of their community.

They also attacked the powers-that-be for using force to retake forests and for supporting capitalists in exploiting the country's natural resources.

Decharut Sukkumnoed, a professor at Kasetsart's faculty of economics, said the interim charter's Section 4 still granted people rights, freedom and equality, hence they could legally demonstrate peacefully to express opposition to policies or development projects that have a direct impact on their lives and well-being.

"We are protected by the [interim] charter to express our opinions peacefully and defend our rights, but the government is ignoring this," he said, citing the fact that members of his group - "Energy Walk Thailand" - had been arrested while trying to protest against the government's energy plan.

"Why can't we share information with the public? All we want to do is ask the government at least to respect people's right to freedom of expression," he added.

Lerdsak Khamkhongsak, a coordinator of the Cultural Ecology Group, supported this by saying that the people should have the right to express their opinions on the government policies.

"The government's recent moves to allow capitalists to exploit natural resources by suppressing communities who try to protect the environment, as in the case of gold mining in Loei or petroleum drilling in Khon Kaen, only shows that the government is not interested in protecting people's rights," Lerdsak said.

Decharut pointed out that the interim constitution ensures people's and community's rights, though some minor laws do not support public participation.

"I suggest that the government modernise outdated natural-resource-management laws to allow greater public participation and community rights to manage their resources," he said.

He said this would help ease problems in applying community rights and public participation at the implementation level, which can be quite difficult as laws are outdated and only authorise the state to manage natural resources.

As for the dispute over forest-reclamation policy, Surin Aunphrom, a professor with Kasetsart University's faculty of forestry, said this was a chronic problem caused by the fact that the authorities had ignored the rights of communities in the forests for a long time. Surin said even forest-conservation movements in Thailand overlooked these communities as they paid attention to preserving forested land and campaigned to push encroachers out.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Govt-should-respect-right-to-criticise-30264243.html

[smedly]

I was unaware that people could not express an opinion provided it wasn't inciting violence hatred or insulting someone

[quandow]

I was unaware that people could not express an opinion provided it wasn't inciting violence hatred or insulting someone

Oh, smedly, the PM has repeatedly warned against people saying ANYTHING against policies he supports. Reporters have been "invited" to his palace for "attitude adjustment." He's like an angry attack dog straining at a very frayed leash.

[Bannum opinions]

'Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

To think otherwise as the anti-demicrats do, shows their ignorance about the underpinnings of a constitutional Democratic form of Govt.

It is an adversarial system, with an elected Govt. exposed to an Opposition in Parliament. Lack of understanding this, is also the basis for their talking about a "Parliamentary Dictatorship"

But is this just ignorance?...... I don't think so....... It is "willful ignorance" and not wanting to accept their perpetual electoral minority reality.

"BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS SAY INTERIM CHARTER ALLOWS PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SPEAK"

Too late for that.

Shows how these so-called academics are in the camp of the anti-democrats.

Trying to legitimize discussion now, is like closing the barn doors after the horses are long-gone.

What is the point of discussion when the anti-democrats have completed their constitution/Senate stuff, in a thoroughly non-inclusive manner.

To now talk about talking, is cynicism to the extreme and politically biased on the part of these so-called academics..

Edited July 11, 2015 by Bannum opinions

[mikemac]

I was unaware that people could not express an opinion provided it wasn't inciting violence hatred or insulting someone

Oh, smedly, the PM has repeatedly warned against people saying ANYTHING against policies he supports. Reporters have been "invited" to his palace for "attitude adjustment." He's like an angry attack dog straining at a very frayed leash.

It must be a Thai thing, this dislike of criticism by the government.

A similar situation occurred years ago when a former PM went to war with any media outlet who dared to criticism his government, or himself -

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/29/1077989434975.html?from=storyrhs

One cannot but help wondering why they frown upon anyone attacking them. Are they hiding something ? Doing something they shouldn't be doing ?

Or is it just loss of face ?

Either way it is not right.

[quandow]

Edited July 11, 2015 by quandow

[Fullstop]

Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

Freedom of speech? The very backbone of democracy? In face saving lilly livered Thailand?

Yeah ... right.

[Baerboxer]

'Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

To think otherwise as the anti-demicrats do, shows their ignorance about the underpinnings of a constitutional Democratic form of Govt.

It is an adversarial system, with an elected Govt. exposed to an Opposition in Parliament. Lack of understanding this, is also the basis for their talking about a "Parliamentary Dictatorship"

But is this just ignorance?...... I don't think so....... It is "willful ignorance" and not wanting to accept their perpetual electoral minority reality.

"BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS SAY INTERIM CHARTER ALLOWS PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SPEAK"

Too late for that.

Shows how these so-called academics are in the camp of the anti-democrats.

Trying to legitimize discussion now, is like closing the barn doors after the horses are long-gone.

What is the point of discussion when the anti-democrats have completed their constitution/Senate stuff, in a thoroughly non-inclusive manner.

To now talk about talking, is cynicism to the extreme and politically biased on the part of these so-called academics..

You are right - in a democracy a democratic government respects the rights of the people to criticize.

Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship. Their infamous threats to sue any who speak against them, intimidation, throwing of contaminated blood and excrement at people's buildings, burning pretend coffins, giving out judges telephone numbers and addresses, suggesting children are kidnapped, random shootings and grenade throwing, attempts at suppressing the media and social media, etc etc. That's what you get when a criminal fugitive runs the government.

Time some real new political parties who represent the people, truth, democracy and justice came up.

[ginjag]

I was unaware that people could not express an opinion provided it wasn't inciting violence hatred or insulting someone

Oh, smedly, the PM has repeatedly warned against people saying ANYTHING against policies he supports. Reporters have been "invited" to his palace for "attitude adjustment." He's like an angry attack dog straining at a very frayed leash.

OTT post as usual your style of criticism is the style that needs to be corrected--if only you used constructive criticism no harm.

Next you will be talking of some sort of concentration camps for your propaganda program. The P.M. warns about such like persons deliberately slagging off the governments efforts for the want of. Of course there are problems, wouldn't you have ?? dealing with the after effects of PTP.....be fair.

[Srikcir]

"We are protected by the [interim] charter to express our opinions peacefully and defend our rights, but the government is ignoring this"

WRONG.

Academics are ignoring Article 44 that gives the Junta the right to do ANYTHING, including negating other articles of the Interim Charter.

Royalist supporter Abhisit observed in a Facebook post:

"Even ... Section 17, which is considered to be the most absolute, only gives power to Prime Minister to order or take action to suppress acts that threaten national security," Mr. Abhisit wrote. "The difference is: under Article 44, the special power belongs to NCPO leader. The NCPO does not have to seek consent from the prime Minister."

He continued, "Article 44 clearly states that the power has binding effect in legislative and judiciary aspects, without a process to challenge or scrutinize them. That means it’s the ability to issue a law or reverse a court verdict."

The so-called Academics don't seem to understand the concept of ABSOLUTE POWER, even after 12 coups.

[pisico]

'Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

To think otherwise as the anti-demicrats do, shows their ignorance about the underpinnings of a constitutional Democratic form of Govt.

It is an adversarial system, with an elected Govt. exposed to an Opposition in Parliament. Lack of understanding this, is also the basis for their talking about a "Parliamentary Dictatorship"

But is this just ignorance?...... I don't think so....... It is "willful ignorance" and not wanting to accept their perpetual electoral minority reality.

"BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS SAY INTERIM CHARTER ALLOWS PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SPEAK"

Too late for that.

Shows how these so-called academics are in the camp of the anti-democrats.

Trying to legitimize discussion now, is like closing the barn doors after the horses are long-gone.

What is the point of discussion when the anti-democrats have completed their constitution/Senate stuff, in a thoroughly non-inclusive manner.

To now talk about talking, is cynicism to the extreme and politically biased on the part of these so-called academics..

You are right - in a democracy a democratic government respects the rights of the people to criticize.

Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship. Their infamous threats to sue any who speak against them, intimidation, throwing of contaminated blood and excrement at people's buildings, burning pretend coffins, giving out judges telephone numbers and addresses, suggesting children are kidnapped, random shootings and grenade throwing, attempts at suppressing the media and social media, etc etc. That's what you get when a criminal fugitive runs the government.

Time some real new political parties who represent the people, truth, democracy and justice came up.

QUOTE "Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship."

You left out the anti-democratic YELLOW SHIRTS/DEMOCRATS/BANGKOK ELITE.

They should qualify to be included in your ant-Thaksinista opinion.

The Thread has nothing to do with Mr. T but with the Military Charter the current regime chooses to ignore.

OCD ?

[ginjag]

I was unaware that people could not express an opinion provided it wasn't inciting violence hatred or insulting someone

They can openly criticise, and the anti P.M. propaganda posters know as well but this is now near their only weapon left, I have just criticised openly about the proposed buying of Chinese subs and said that would be a stupid thing to do, constructive criticism is no problem. No one is taking me to a correction center.

Now if I am lazy with no work inbetween my studies and decide to just go on an anti government propaganda binge then I will be looking for trouble. especially if the brainwashing came from RED supporters--and families.

Also if I sit by my computer just agreeing with 7% of posters anti Army campaign i would be looking for long term Thai problems, object now and again but everyday--on every topic ridiculous.

[djjamie]

Any constructive criticism is not only tolerated, it is welcomed.

In fact Jatuporn and Chaturon were both invited to the army club not one month ago to offer criticism of Junta policy. Photo of Chaturon below with the army chiefs. They look happy to me? No attitude adjustment there. No hand cuffs in sight? The doomers and gloomers must be frustrated. Like "The struggle" and "The uprising" they are just words used that do not portray reality, but are used to paint an agenda. To plant a seed.

Chaturon even said "upcoming referendum on the new charter will be a "waste of money" if the military does not lift its ban on political debates" Chaturon was not arrested. He was not taken away for attitude adjustment. He was invited by the Junta to say this to the Junta.

​Peace TV is a perfect example of criticism gone too far. Initially they plodded along being very critical of the government and were not taken off air. But predictably as water runs down hill a red shirt will eventually take it too far throwing in violent undertones and they did. The threats and name calling started so they were taken off air, but not banned. They were given another chance. Unbelievable in fact that they were. So back on air again and straight back into the name calling and threats. Even Abhisit was not left out of the red diatribe. Criticism gone to far and they were banned.

Speaking of Abhisit, he criticises the govt on a near daily bases. He criticises them on an open public platform, but it is constructive criticism and he has the majorities wishes at heart. Their is no name calling, threats or insinuations. No agenda and most importantly no front page news article because of this approach he takes. This is why the reds do not like this approach. They love the shock value. They want to be on the front page of the paper. They are an irrelevant entity trying to stay relevant They want to discredit the Junta by taking things too far. In other words they do not have the majorities wishes at heart.

If you have the majorities wishes at heart and can relay your criticism constructively without childish name calling or violent tendencies then the platform is yours.

I must say however I do have a lot of respect for Decharut. In 2013 he was involved in "The Peoples Council" that was organised as a reaction to the PTP's compromising of democratic principles. Here he is again fighting for democracy, but this time against a govt that never ever purported to be democratic. Same fight different govt.

Well done Decharut.

Edited July 11, 2015 by djjamie

[EnglishJohn]

'Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

To think otherwise as the anti-demicrats do, shows their ignorance about the underpinnings of a constitutional Democratic form of Govt.

It is an adversarial system, with an elected Govt. exposed to an Opposition in Parliament. Lack of understanding this, is also the basis for their talking about a "Parliamentary Dictatorship"

But is this just ignorance?...... I don't think so....... It is "willful ignorance" and not wanting to accept their perpetual electoral minority reality.

"BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS SAY INTERIM CHARTER ALLOWS PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SPEAK"

Too late for that.

Shows how these so-called academics are in the camp of the anti-democrats.

Trying to legitimize discussion now, is like closing the barn doors after the horses are long-gone.

What is the point of discussion when the anti-democrats have completed their constitution/Senate stuff, in a thoroughly non-inclusive manner.

To now talk about talking, is cynicism to the extreme and politically biased on the part of these so-called academics..

You are right - in a democracy a democratic government respects the rights of the people to criticize.

Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship. Their infamous threats to sue any who speak against them, intimidation, throwing of contaminated blood and excrement at people's buildings, burning pretend coffins, giving out judges telephone numbers and addresses, suggesting children are kidnapped, random shootings and grenade throwing, attempts at suppressing the media and social media, etc etc. That's what you get when a criminal fugitive runs the government.

Time some real new political parties who represent the people, truth, democracy and justice came up.

QUOTE "Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship."

You left out the anti-democratic YELLOW SHIRTS/DEMOCRATS/BANGKOK ELITE.

They should qualify to be included in your ant-Thaksinista opinion.

The Thread has nothing to do with Mr. T but with the Military Charter the current regime chooses to ignore.

OCD ?

LOL, this is what I find so amusing about the red-shirts on here.

They accuse others of something which they are FAR more guilty of themselves. I can see you foaming at the mouth as you wrote the bit in capitals. OCD is right : Baerboxer wrote a sensible comment : you wrote a rant - probably whilst fondling the huge chip you keep on your shoulder.

I have noticed that in this world there is a level of intelligence where if you are below it, you do not have the wit to judge yourself and realise what is immediately obvious to others. There are many such people on this forum and by and large, they wear the same colour shirts.

[pisico]

'Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

To think otherwise as the anti-demicrats do, shows their ignorance about the underpinnings of a constitutional Democratic form of Govt.

It is an adversarial system, with an elected Govt. exposed to an Opposition in Parliament. Lack of understanding this, is also the basis for their talking about a "Parliamentary Dictatorship"

But is this just ignorance?...... I don't think so....... It is "willful ignorance" and not wanting to accept their perpetual electoral minority reality.

"BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS SAY INTERIM CHARTER ALLOWS PEOPLE A CHANCE TO SPEAK"

Too late for that.

Shows how these so-called academics are in the camp of the anti-democrats.

Trying to legitimize discussion now, is like closing the barn doors after the horses are long-gone.

What is the point of discussion when the anti-democrats have completed their constitution/Senate stuff, in a thoroughly non-inclusive manner.

To now talk about talking, is cynicism to the extreme and politically biased on the part of these so-called academics..

You are right - in a democracy a democratic government respects the rights of the people to criticize.

Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship. Their infamous threats to sue any who speak against them, intimidation, throwing of contaminated blood and excrement at people's buildings, burning pretend coffins, giving out judges telephone numbers and addresses, suggesting children are kidnapped, random shootings and grenade throwing, attempts at suppressing the media and social media, etc etc. That's what you get when a criminal fugitive runs the government.

Time some real new political parties who represent the people, truth, democracy and justice came up.

QUOTE "Unlike the anti-democratic Shin clan dictatorship."

You left out the anti-democratic YELLOW SHIRTS/DEMOCRATS/BANGKOK ELITE.

They should qualify to be included in your ant-Thaksinista opinion.

The Thread has nothing to do with Mr. T but with the Military Charter the current regime chooses to ignore.

OCD ?

LOL, this is what I find so amusing about the red-shirts on here.

They accuse others of something which they are FAR more guilty of themselves. I can see you foaming at the mouth as you wrote the bit in capitals. OCD is right : Baerboxer wrote a sensible comment : you wrote a rant - probably whilst fondling the huge chip you keep on your shoulder.

I have noticed that in this world there is a level of intelligence where if you are below it, you do not have the wit to judge yourself and realise what is immediately obvious to others. There are many such people on this forum and by and large, they wear the same colour shirts.

Sensible? The poster singled out the Shin Clan. I pointed out a "convenient omission". Not an accusation.

You, on the other hand, label me as a Red Shirt. As if being Yellow, Anti-Thaksinista, Pro-Suthep or Abhisista is somehow more honorable.

Whether it hurts or not, the leaning persuasions of foreigners who, would never be allowed to participate or decide the outcome of things Thai, the irrefutable truth is that Shin and other Reds, were elected to government without the armed forces putting them there.

Foreigners in Thailand oftentimes follow the political persuasions of their "significant others" without even being able to speak fluently or read Thai language and much less, keen knowledge of Thai history.

How much money those in favor of coup d'etats lost to the Shin, or other non-Democrat governments in Thailand? No real answers there other than the usual lame cop-out: "It's a matter of principles..."

Thailand is a viable country for foreigners to retire or live but, the inescapable truth is that this is a quasi-feudal, underdeveloped country (for many, many years) in spite of massive foreign investment for decades. Dysfunctional at many levels.

The level of intelligence you mention is best exercised by not taking things Ad Hominem (look it up) and from refraining from name-calling or casting labels on people one knows nothing about.

Otherwise such reactions can only be deemed OCD

Edited July 11, 2015 by pisico

[toooa]

To deny the right to criticize is to admit that your arguments are rubbish...

[smedly]

To deny the right to criticize is to admit that your arguments are rubbish...

please elaborate -who is being denied that right, as far as I can see nobody in Thailand is being denied the right to speak and criticise, although there is a law stopping people gathering in numbers which quite honestly I completely understand and agree with - we all know how stuff kicks off here and I would rather not see that because innocent people loose their lives at the hands of sinister elements who do anything for a few thousand baht

so just leave it at that

If you don't agree then put your case - mine is rock solid simply because it has happened already

[AYJAYDEE]

To deny the right to criticize is to admit that your arguments are rubbish...

please elaborate -who is being denied that right, as far as I can see nobody in Thailand is being denied the right to speak and criticise, although there is a law stopping people gathering in numbers which quite honestly I completely understand and agree with - we all know how stuff kicks off here and I would rather not see that because innocent people loose their lives at the hands of sinister elements who do anything for a few thousand baht

so just leave it at that

If you don't agree then put your case - mine is rock solid simply because it has happened already

lese majesty

[AYJAYDEE]

nope, you said NOBODY in thailand is being denied the right to criticize. thats not true

[rametindallas]

Govt 'should respect right to criticise'

A discussion on community rights was held at Kasetsart University yesterday, during which the participants attacked the government for suppressing community rights to defend the environment and ensure the well-being of their community.

They also attacked the powers-that-be for using force to retake forests and for supporting capitalists in exploiting the country's natural resources.

When the Junta allowed, "participants attacked the government " and "attacked the powers-that-be", it disproves the 'academics' argument. There is nothing stopping anyone from being critical. There is, however, a prohibition of public protests with more than five persons because that could soon escalate into another 'Thaksin Paid Mob' to disrupt the reforms that need to take place to set the stage for a proper democracy and not a 'Thai Style' perversion of democracy.

Posters on this very forum are allowed huge latitude to criticize, and even insult, the current government and the military.

How much does an 'academic' in Thailand earn? It probably wouldn't take much inducement for some of them to become a paid lobbyists for the Thaksin criminal organization. Academics are the original 'Ivory Tower' dwellers who live in a world of make-believe utopia and have not the slightest idea what it takes to manage a country. "Living in an ivory tower" is an expression used to indicate that someone is out of touch with common experience, usually due to spending much of their life in academia or privileged circumstances. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ivory_tower

Thaksin needs to very much derail the reform process because it will curtail his ability to steal money from the Thai treasury.

.

[Jai Dee]

One flame post has been removed from this thread.

Members are also reminded of the following from the Forum Rules:

1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.

By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.*
Discussion of the Lese Majeste law or Lese Majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family.

To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.

[metisdead]

A post containing a profane acronym has been removed as well as the replies. If you cannot post in a civil manner, perhaps it would be better not to post.

[baboon]

To deny the right to criticize is to admit that your arguments are rubbish...

please elaborate -who is being denied that right, as far as I can see nobody in Thailand is being denied the right to speak and criticise, although there is a law stopping people gathering in numbers which quite honestly I completely understand and agree with - we all know how stuff kicks off here and I would rather not see that because innocent people loose their lives at the hands of sinister elements who do anything for a few thousand baht

so just leave it at that

If you don't agree then put your case - mine is rock solid simply because it has happened already

Freedoms authorised by a not a dictatorship have about as much legitimacy as property ownership laws decided by burglars.

[manhood]

This "government" is just doing the same as all the other governments did: protect the rich families and the ones who support the "government" with money and their power and keep the poorest poor and the uneducated uneducated as they are like sheeps in a herd and easy to treat! ups sorry misstreat!!!!!!!! Well and yes train them to smile while beeing missused as voters for anything they are thought to do!

[Ace of Pop]

If you can't do anything useful be an Academic.

[baboon]

If you can't do anything useful be an Academic.

Yeah. What has learning ever accomplished for the human race?

[Ace of Pop]

Not much looking at students in Thailand