Red light camera question.

[nev]

My wife has received a fine in the post for driving through a red light, now in the picture's it shows in the first pic quiet clearly it is amber, in the second picture it shows as leaving the intersection as red.

My question what is the rule about driving through on amber, surely both pictures should show as red, not amber then red.

Would she have a case if she contested the fine?.

[NanLaew]

Stop this face nonsense, pay the fine and move on. The second photo clearly shows her moving through an intersection on a red light.

If you want to get 'technical', traffic lights at intersections here are badly configured in that the lights controlling your progress are mostly located at the opposite side of the intersection, thus it is very easy to run a red light. This also contributes greatly to the locals penchant to run red lights and jump the green ones as pretty much everyone can see everyone else's lights. In the UK and most other European countries, the traffic lights are located on the near side of the intersection with the vehicle stop line a few meters back so the lights can only be seen by the drivers coming in that direction. In the US, the lights may be located the same way as Thailand but will have longer shrouds to 'blinker' the view from the side.

I got caught at a red light in Udon when shortly after entering an intersection on amber, I had to brake quickly for a police pickup coming from the opposite direction and making an illegal u-turn in front of me. By the time I exited the intersection, the light was red and a few yards further on, I was pulled over and ticketed for such. It did not matter one bit that the police pickup that forced me to stop was bringing the next shift of itinerant traffic ticket writers to work either.

Whilst in Thailand and especially in the cities with the new red-light cameras, it is best to observe 'stop on amber'.

Edited July 11, 2015 by NanLaew

[Tomtomtom69]

Where did this occur? Didn't know that Thailand had any red light cameras, well done Thailand, finally you have entered the 21st century!

[Anthony5]

Where did this occur? Didn't know that Thailand had any red light cameras, well done Thailand, finally you have entered the 21st century!

I also didn't know Thailand had red light cameras, but I recall that they did a test with 10 cameras for 30 days in Bangkok many years ago, and they pictured 76.000 cars

[nev]

This happened in khonkaen at the lights at Thapra on the main highway into khonkaen.

I am not trying to get her off, she pays anyway because it is her fault,vwe have known for awhile their is cameras there as a nurse she works with got done there not so long ago.

[nev]

Stop this face nonsense, pay the fine and move on. The second photo clearly shows her moving through an intersection on a red light.

If you want to get 'technical', traffic lights at intersections here are badly configured in that the lights controlling your progress are mostly located at the opposite side of the intersection, thus it is very easy to run a red light. This also contributes greatly to the locals penchant to run red lights and jump the green ones as pretty much everyone can see everyone else's lights. In the UK and most other European countries, the traffic lights are located on the near side of the intersection with the vehicle stop line a few meters back so the lights can only be seen by the drivers coming in that direction. In the US, the lights may be located the same way as Thailand but will have longer shrouds to 'blinker' the view from the side.

I got caught at a red light in Udon when shortly after entering an intersection on amber, I had to brake quickly for a police pickup coming from the opposite direction and making an illegal u-turn in front of me. By the time I exited the intersection, the light was red and a few yards further on, I was pulled over and ticketed for such. It did not matter one bit that the police pickup that forced me to stop was bringing the next shift of itinerant traffic ticket writers to work either.

Whilst in Thailand and especially in the cities with the new red-light cameras, it is best to observe 'stop on amber'.

Agree mate, I always stop on amber but always look in my rear view mirror to see who is behind and if they are going to try and gun the lights, happened in Australia to me I pulled up on amber the car behind gunned it thinking I was going through and made a mess of both of our cars, he got out and abused me for not going through.

[Big Guns]

That's fantastic news that Thailand has red light cameras. If they rolled that policy out it would negate the land taxation scheme by some margin.

[vogie]

Amber light means 'start stopping' and not 'hurry up, I think I can get through before it turns red'

[peterjackson]

AMBER means Stop at the 'Stop Line'. If the front axle wheels are over the stop line when Amber appears, you should move through the intersection. The main reason for the 'Stop Here On RED' signs, is to mitigate the 'Stop Line' not being visible or missing altogether. If there is no indication of where to stop on Red, the law cannot be enforced.

There are in most countries, Laws stipulating the minimum time the Amber light has to be on before the Red light activates. Most jurisdictions don't have it set correctly and this could then be used to defend the 'ticket' as being unlawfully issued.

There are several other defences available, but too long winded to go into here, without me knowing the specific legislations in place in Thailand for vehicle control devices.

[Tomtomtom69]

This happened in khonkaen at the lights at Thapra on the main highway into khonkaen.

I am not trying to get her off, she pays anyway because it is her fault,vwe have known for awhile their is cameras there as a nurse she works with got done there not so long ago.

I know that intersection as I often drive to Vientiane in Laos from Bangkok. In fact, will be heading out that way in a week's time.

Must be the first red light camera in Thailand as I have looked at many red lights and never ever spotted a camera. Even speed cameras are rare, but there is now one near Bang Pa-in on the northbound section on Asia Highway in the direction of Ayuttaya.

[Tomtomtom69]

That's fantastic news that Thailand has red light cameras. If they rolled that policy out it would negate the land taxation scheme by some margin.

I agree. Start enforcing traffic laws by implementing technology such as red light cameras and speed cameras and even if the fines are moderate, it will generate a hell of a lot of revenue. One wonders why they didn't roll this out earlier, like say 15 years ago? The Thai police force has missed out on potentially billions of Baht in revenue from fines, god knows why they weren't clever enough to come up with this years ago?

[MYKTHEMIN]

Because it would not go directly into their pockets, obvious really.

[JAS21]

If you go through on Green but don't make the exit before red you should get away with it BUT if you go through when the amber is showing and don't exit before the Red you will be fined ... providing of course there is a camera to take pictures.

Amber means STOP not accelerate like <deleted>. And don't forget always look both ways even if the green light shows TIT.

[faraday]

How much is the fine?

[nev]

800 baht.

[Anthony5]

AMBER means Stop at the 'Stop Line'. If the front axle wheels are over the stop line when Amber appears, you should move through the intersection. The main reason for the 'Stop Here On RED' signs, is to mitigate the 'Stop Line' not being visible or missing altogether. If there is no indication of where to stop on Red, the law cannot be enforced.

There are in most countries, Laws stipulating the minimum time the Amber light has to be on before the Red light activates. Most jurisdictions don't have it set correctly and this could then be used to defend the 'ticket' as being unlawfully issued.

There are several other defences available, but too long winded to go into here, without me knowing the specific legislations in place in Thailand for vehicle control devices.

Amber means stop, if you can do it without danger to the cars behind you.

[PattayaClub]

Stop this face nonsense, pay the fine and move on. The second photo clearly shows her moving through an intersection on a red light.

If you want to get 'technical', traffic lights at intersections here are badly configured in that the lights controlling your progress are mostly located at the opposite side of the intersection, thus it is very easy to run a red light. This also contributes greatly to the locals penchant to run red lights and jump the green ones as pretty much everyone can see everyone else's lights. In the UK and most other European countries, the traffic lights are located on the near side of the intersection with the vehicle stop line a few meters back so the lights can only be seen by the drivers coming in that direction. In the US, the lights may be located the same way as Thailand but will have longer shrouds to 'blinker' the view from the side.

I got caught at a red light in Udon when shortly after entering an intersection on amber, I had to brake quickly for a police pickup coming from the opposite direction and making an illegal u-turn in front of me. By the time I exited the intersection, the light was red and a few yards further on, I was pulled over and ticketed for such. It did not matter one bit that the police pickup that forced me to stop was bringing the next shift of itinerant traffic ticket writers to work either.

Whilst in Thailand and especially in the cities with the new red-light cameras, it is best to observe 'stop on amber'.

Defending yourself is nonsense? You probably also pay bribes to immigration officials "just to get along."

Here is the English translation of the law:

The driver shall comply with traffic signals or traffic signs in the following cases:

(1) Amber traffic Light: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line in order to be prepared to act according to the traffic light to be mentioned in (2), except that a driver who has passed the stop line may proceed through.

(2) Red traffic light signals or red traffic light signs with the word stop: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

(3) Green traffic light or green traffic light with the word go: the driver may drive the vehicle through, except when there are traffic signs to the contrary.

(4) Traffic Light signals showing a green arrow to turn or go straight: the driver shall turn or go straight along the direction of the arrow. In using the way along the direction points by the arrow, the driver shall use the way with great care and give the right of way to the pedestrian in the zebra crossings or the driver to the right.

(5) Red traffic light signal which is blinking: if installed at the road junction with opening on which side, the driver on that side shall stop at the stop line, and when it is seen safe and not obstructing the traffic he may proceed with care.

(6) Blinking yellow traffic signal: at any point where this traffic signal is installed, the driver shall reduce the speed of the vehicle and proceed though the crossing carefully.

The driver who is to drive the vehicle straight ahead shall keep to the traffic lane with a traffic sign indicating going straight ahead and the driver who is to turn the vehicle shall keep to the traffic lane with a traffic signal indicating turning. Entering into the said traffic lanes shall be made from where there is traffic sign indicating such.

Section 22, Land Traffic Act B.E. 2522

So, if her wheels were past the line before the light turned red, she was not in violation. I have to wonder why the camera would even activate before the red signal activated. It seems as if the thing is defective. I would definitely go into the police station that has the jurisdiction and have a talk about it. As in this case, I suppose red light camera can also protect you. If you can get ahold of a Thai version of the section cited above, you will be better prepared. But at least bring the English one.

If you both dress properly, are polite, smile and not aggressive, I think you have 90% chance of having it tossed. But when you go in, or, preferably, before you go in, find out the name of the highest level officer at the station, then ask for him. He is the most likely to show his magnanimity by throwing it out than a lower level officer. If a lower level officer refuses to throw it out, nobody is going to change his decision because he will lose face. That's just the way it works here. Talk to the big cheese first.

Of course, the next stop would be go to court. But at some point, it just isn't worth the trouble.

And above all, don't listen to the spineless apologists on TV that always tell you to roll over and accept your fate. I have ALWAYS politely stood my ground with Thai police officers when I knew I was in the right, and have always been waved on instead of ticketed. It helps to be able to speak a little Thai; they seem to appreciate that.

Many of the kissy folks on here are applauding these cameras. They are nothing but another road tax to raise revenue. I got one of these tickets about five years ago just outside Chiangrai (was a speed camera). Now i avoid the whole problem with a plateflipper: http://www.speedflip.com

I just love the thing!

Edited July 12, 2015 by PattayaClub

[masuk]

That's fantastic news that Thailand has red light cameras. If they rolled that policy out it would negate the land taxation scheme by some margin.

I agree. Start enforcing traffic laws by implementing technology such as red light cameras and speed cameras and even if the fines are moderate, it will generate a hell of a lot of revenue. One wonders why they didn't roll this out earlier, like say 15 years ago? The Thai police force has missed out on potentially billions of Baht in revenue from fines, god knows why they weren't clever enough to come up with this years ago?

It's also a good incentive to ensure that motorists have their correct address in the system. If a fine is posted to an old address, I should imagine the car owner is in more trouble when the police catch up with him.

Unfortunately, being delayed for letting an emergency vehicle come through, and your photo taken, is often not believed. Back in Oz, a mate of mine got the standard fine for turning against a red 'right turn' light for this reason. The current fine is AU$340!!

The computerised system registers your fine, and the next one is even more expensive.

[topt]

This happened in khonkaen at the lights at Thapra on the main highway into khonkaen.

I am not trying to get her off, she pays anyway because it is her fault,vwe have known for awhile their is cameras there as a nurse she works with got done there not so long ago.

I know that intersection as I often drive to Vientiane in Laos from Bangkok. In fact, will be heading out that way in a week's time.

Must be the first red light camera in Thailand as I have looked at many red lights and never ever spotted a camera. Even speed cameras are rare, but there is now one near Bang Pa-in on the northbound section on Asia Highway in the direction of Ayuttaya.

Unfortunately I know for a fact they are also installed at a couple of the lights going through Bo Win on the 331.

800 baht.

I wonder how it is calculated as mine was only 500 baht?

Interesting that with red light cameras there do not appear to be any warning signs unlike the speed ones on Highway 7 and other roads........

[cnx355]

Amber light means 'start stopping' and not 'hurry up, I think I can get through before it turns red'

Amber lights are a real problem here as they are not timed correctly. Traffic engineers should calculate the duration according to the speed limit and intersection size. It is not done if you observe the cycle.

In Chiangmai many ambers are 3 seconds or less. This cause many drivers to keep going as if they stop they will be read ended.

And, if I am the first car in line after it turn green , I wait for the traffic to stop because usually there are always a few cars or motorbikes bikes crossing on the to fast amber-red combination. Most Thai drivers do the same.

[NanLaew]

Stop this face nonsense, pay the fine and move on. The second photo clearly shows her moving through an intersection on a red light.

If you want to get 'technical', traffic lights at intersections here are badly configured in that the lights controlling your progress are mostly located at the opposite side of the intersection, thus it is very easy to run a red light. This also contributes greatly to the locals penchant to run red lights and jump the green ones as pretty much everyone can see everyone else's lights. In the UK and most other European countries, the traffic lights are located on the near side of the intersection with the vehicle stop line a few meters back so the lights can only be seen by the drivers coming in that direction. In the US, the lights may be located the same way as Thailand but will have longer shrouds to 'blinker' the view from the side.

I got caught at a red light in Udon when shortly after entering an intersection on amber, I had to brake quickly for a police pickup coming from the opposite direction and making an illegal u-turn in front of me. By the time I exited the intersection, the light was red and a few yards further on, I was pulled over and ticketed for such. It did not matter one bit that the police pickup that forced me to stop was bringing the next shift of itinerant traffic ticket writers to work either.

Whilst in Thailand and especially in the cities with the new red-light cameras, it is best to observe 'stop on amber'.

Defending yourself is nonsense? You probably also pay bribes to immigration officials "just to get along."

Here is the English translation of the law:

The driver shall comply with traffic signals or traffic signs in the following cases:

(1) Amber traffic Light: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line in order to be prepared to act according to the traffic light to be mentioned in (2), except that a driver who has passed the stop line may proceed through.

(2) Red traffic light signals or red traffic light signs with the word stop: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

(3) Green traffic light or green traffic light with the word go: the driver may drive the vehicle through, except when there are traffic signs to the contrary.

(4) Traffic Light signals showing a green arrow to turn or go straight: the driver shall turn or go straight along the direction of the arrow. In using the way along the direction points by the arrow, the driver shall use the way with great care and give the right of way to the pedestrian in the zebra crossings or the driver to the right.

(5) Red traffic light signal which is blinking: if installed at the road junction with opening on which side, the driver on that side shall stop at the stop line, and when it is seen safe and not obstructing the traffic he may proceed with care.

(6) Blinking yellow traffic signal: at any point where this traffic signal is installed, the driver shall reduce the speed of the vehicle and proceed though the crossing carefully.

The driver who is to drive the vehicle straight ahead shall keep to the traffic lane with a traffic sign indicating going straight ahead and the driver who is to turn the vehicle shall keep to the traffic lane with a traffic signal indicating turning. Entering into the said traffic lanes shall be made from where there is traffic sign indicating such.

Section 22, Land Traffic Act B.E. 2522

So, if her wheels were past the line before the light turned red, she was not in violation. I have to wonder why the camera would even activate before the red signal activated. It seems as if the thing is defective. I would definitely go into the police station that has the jurisdiction and have a talk about it. As in this case, I suppose red light camera can also protect you. If you can get ahold of a Thai version of the section cited above, you will be better prepared. But at least bring the English one.

If you both dress properly, are polite, smile and not aggressive, I think you have 90% chance of having it tossed. But when you go in, or, preferably, before you go in, find out the name of the highest level officer at the station, then ask for him. He is the most likely to show his magnanimity by throwing it out than a lower level officer. If a lower level officer refuses to throw it out, nobody is going to change his decision because he will lose face. That's just the way it works here. Talk to the big cheese first.

Of course, the next stop would be go to court. But at some point, it just isn't worth the trouble.

And above all, don't listen to the spineless apologists on TV that always tell you to roll over and accept your fate. I have ALWAYS politely stood my ground with Thai police officers when I knew I was in the right, and have always been waved on instead of ticketed. It helps to be able to speak a little Thai; they seem to appreciate that.

Many of the kissy folks on here are applauding these cameras. They are nothing but another road tax to raise revenue. I got one of these tickets about five years ago just outside Chiangrai (was a speed camera). Now i avoid the whole problem with a plateflipper: http://www.speedflip.com

I just love the thing!

Interesting... detailed research and a precise quotation of Thai traffic law capped with a rather noisome endorsement of a device that has no obvious other use apart from aiding one to break the speed limit and thus go undetected.

You must be an Englander with the 'another road tax to raise revenue' claim. Take a look out the window, this is Thailand and the traffic speeding fines, whether arbitrary or correct have absolutely nothing to do with any bloody road tax.

PS. Do you show off your plate flipper when down the pub?

[PattayaClub]

Stop this face nonsense, pay the fine and move on. The second photo clearly shows her moving through an intersection on a red light.

If you want to get 'technical', traffic lights at intersections here are badly configured in that the lights controlling your progress are mostly located at the opposite side of the intersection, thus it is very easy to run a red light. This also contributes greatly to the locals penchant to run red lights and jump the green ones as pretty much everyone can see everyone else's lights. In the UK and most other European countries, the traffic lights are located on the near side of the intersection with the vehicle stop line a few meters back so the lights can only be seen by the drivers coming in that direction. In the US, the lights may be located the same way as Thailand but will have longer shrouds to 'blinker' the view from the side.

I got caught at a red light in Udon when shortly after entering an intersection on amber, I had to brake quickly for a police pickup coming from the opposite direction and making an illegal u-turn in front of me. By the time I exited the intersection, the light was red and a few yards further on, I was pulled over and ticketed for such. It did not matter one bit that the police pickup that forced me to stop was bringing the next shift of itinerant traffic ticket writers to work either.

Whilst in Thailand and especially in the cities with the new red-light cameras, it is best to observe 'stop on amber'.

Defending yourself is nonsense? You probably also pay bribes to immigration officials "just to get along."

Here is the English translation of the law:

The driver shall comply with traffic signals or traffic signs in the following cases:

(1) Amber traffic Light: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line in order to be prepared to act according to the traffic light to be mentioned in (2), except that a driver who has passed the stop line may proceed through.

(2) Red traffic light signals or red traffic light signs with the word stop: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

(3) Green traffic light or green traffic light with the word go: the driver may drive the vehicle through, except when there are traffic signs to the contrary.

(4) Traffic Light signals showing a green arrow to turn or go straight: the driver shall turn or go straight along the direction of the arrow. In using the way along the direction points by the arrow, the driver shall use the way with great care and give the right of way to the pedestrian in the zebra crossings or the driver to the right.

(5) Red traffic light signal which is blinking: if installed at the road junction with opening on which side, the driver on that side shall stop at the stop line, and when it is seen safe and not obstructing the traffic he may proceed with care.

(6) Blinking yellow traffic signal: at any point where this traffic signal is installed, the driver shall reduce the speed of the vehicle and proceed though the crossing carefully.

The driver who is to drive the vehicle straight ahead shall keep to the traffic lane with a traffic sign indicating going straight ahead and the driver who is to turn the vehicle shall keep to the traffic lane with a traffic signal indicating turning. Entering into the said traffic lanes shall be made from where there is traffic sign indicating such.

Section 22, Land Traffic Act B.E. 2522

So, if her wheels were past the line before the light turned red, she was not in violation. I have to wonder why the camera would even activate before the red signal activated. It seems as if the thing is defective. I would definitely go into the police station that has the jurisdiction and have a talk about it. As in this case, I suppose red light camera can also protect you. If you can get ahold of a Thai version of the section cited above, you will be better prepared. But at least bring the English one.

If you both dress properly, are polite, smile and not aggressive, I think you have 90% chance of having it tossed. But when you go in, or, preferably, before you go in, find out the name of the highest level officer at the station, then ask for him. He is the most likely to show his magnanimity by throwing it out than a lower level officer. If a lower level officer refuses to throw it out, nobody is going to change his decision because he will lose face. That's just the way it works here. Talk to the big cheese first.

Of course, the next stop would be go to court. But at some point, it just isn't worth the trouble.

And above all, don't listen to the spineless apologists on TV that always tell you to roll over and accept your fate. I have ALWAYS politely stood my ground with Thai police officers when I knew I was in the right, and have always been waved on instead of ticketed. It helps to be able to speak a little Thai; they seem to appreciate that.

Many of the kissy folks on here are applauding these cameras. They are nothing but another road tax to raise revenue. I got one of these tickets about five years ago just outside Chiangrai (was a speed camera). Now i avoid the whole problem with a plateflipper: http://www.speedflip.com

I just love the thing!

Interesting... detailed research and a precise quotation of Thai traffic law capped with a rather noisome endorsement of a device that has no obvious other use apart from aiding one to break the speed limit and thus go undetected.

You must be an Englander with the 'another road tax to raise revenue' claim. Take a look out the window, this is Thailand and the traffic speeding fines, whether arbitrary or correct have absolutely nothing to do with any bloody road tax.

PS. Do you show off your plate flipper when down the pub?

We don't have "pubs" where I come from. We have "bars," although the places that see themselves as trendy like to call themselves pubs. And it that is not hint enogh, we also have a lot of guns. And no, I don't show off the plate flipper anywhere; that would only be asking for trouble I neither need nor want.

The purpose of the plate flipper is to avoid detection and identification by all road cameras, including those designed to catch speeders and those designed to catch red light runners. The amount of a fine in this country is negligible -- certainly not enough to warrant the purchase of flipper. But if you are caught on a camera, you get a paper citation, and that goes on your record. Get three in one year and your license is gone.

And if it is my wife's car I am driving, there is hell to pay when the ticket comes in the mail to her (although I think it's pretty funny to pass the buck like that). In any event, I simply do not want to take the risk. Of course, there is always the option of obeying the law . . .