Making Your Own Biodiesel

[udon]

Biodiesel Man Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcKpIB1HYKM

Part 1 of 2

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Here's another..... If you can put up with Mr. Happy.

http://www.biodiesel-kits.com/

Kits from US$2000

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Good Vid for newbies looking into Bio.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XoxQ...elated&search=

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KyPm...elated&search=

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More videos; (slow loading)?

http://video.yahoo.com/video/search?p=biod...p;x=41&y=15

&

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=biodiesel

Enjoy.

[Khun Jean]

For people in Thailand it is a lot easier.

Just use coconut oil, pour it in your tank and you're ready.

No messing with ethanol/methanol.

Coconut oil will keep fluid with temperaturs like in Thailand, and it is the best of the best biodiesel you can get.

Do a search on coconut biodiesel and phillipines. A guy there has a business already for a few years in coconut biodiesel.

[Maizefarmer]

For people in Thailand it is a lot easier.

Just use coconut oil, pour it in your tank and you're ready.

No messing with ethanol/methanol.

Coconut oil will keep fluid with temperaturs like in Thailand, and it is the best of the best biodiesel you can get.

Do a search on coconut biodiesel and phillipines. A guy there has a business already for a few years in coconut biodiesel.

Just what are the legal issues in Thailand regards production of biodiesel - can I just start making the stuff, or are there a set of admin/legal hurdles I have to jump through.

If I did - it would only be for my own use. Keep my mouth shut and just get on it with it (???)

Anyone know what's up from a legal perspective?

Tim

[timber]

There was a notice in the bangkok post about a month ago about getting a licence from the Energy Business Development Provincial Offices and they would allow you to produce for sale as farm fuel. Its not that hard to make. They want you to mark the fuel as in North America, but I think it will be a while before they check for marked fuel. A good site to look at for comments on the production is http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

I haven't seen anything on making it for your own use. Kinda hard to stop.

[Maizefarmer]

Another interesting artical - sure, this stuff is no rocket science to make, and buying a kit for $2000 (as advertised earlier on a posting) is not needed.

Am trying to put it all into perspective against the cost of Thai diesel - currently at around Baht27 - this may well be something I'm prepeared to commission one of the forum members from K Uni in Bkk to take a look into, because as a farm fuel - enourmous potential.

I need clarification regards volume of biofuel produceable per rai per month/year - there are wildly different figures on the nett - which are true/accuarte and realistic.

Tim

[udon]

Apologies.

Some of my links above are now a little iffy.

Just use the search engines on the video page/s and do a search for Biodiesel and a lot more links will be revealed.

[Bizz]

DIY KITS.

This got my brain going

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

[Khun Jean]

Still those kits need you to buy methanol or other chemicals to make 'biodiesel'. The best way to go is SVO.

Especially for 'farm' diesel.

In that case, coconut oil can be used without further processing. At least in warm climates. In colder climates you need to add around 5% kerosene.

All you need is a press.

Very clean process.

Cut the coconut in half, drain the moist, take out the white 'meat', let it dry in the sun or if in a hurry above a small fire.

Then put this 'meat' with almost no water into a press, can even be a handpress.

Then press out the oil, there you have it 'cold pressed virgin coconut oil'. Which by the way is the latest craze in healthfood.

Now you have two choices.

Put it in the tank of your tractor/truck or sell it to American/European customers for 300 baht per liter.

You will need about 6 medium sized coconuts for 1 liter. That would be around 12 baht if you buy coconuts in larger quantities. Or even better, grow them yourself.

This will ONLY work for coconut oil as it has the right chemical makeup, other oils will in time build a polymer on the engine parts, and that will damage the engine.

Coconut is the second producer of oil, after palm oil.

But if you consider that coconut needs NO mixing with other chemicals, which have a high cost, even the slightly lower production of coconut will balance the cost of the final product.

And it is much more environment friendly.

The remainder of the product can be used for animal food, which is very healthy. All other parts of the coconut can be used too.

My feeling is that now that most are converting to palm oil and rubber the coconut will get more expensive. Especially now that its qualities are being discovered.

If i would do some farming i would choose, coconut and rubber.

Rubber is a perfect ingredient for rocket fuel. I can imagine that those qualities will be researched more and more in the nearby future to power other machines.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Khun Jean

[udon]

Bizz, Google coco diesel & coconut diesel.

[timber]

Khun Jean,

Do you have any sites that talk about using coconut oil directly in the tank. I guess it must just be a lack of glycerine content in the virgin oil.

Interesting comments but as you indicate can get more money using it in other ways.

[Khun Jean]

Timber,

Just one of the many references available on the web. As 'Udon' wrote, do a google and you will get hundreds of references and stories. Coconut is used already a long time as a substitute for diesel.

Be sure to read the "Coconut Oil Fuel Data" mentioned on this site.

http://www.extremesamoa.com/compare.htm

In practice you can use it without mixing if the climate is warm enough. Coconut oil will solidify with temperatures below 25.

Mixing a little kerosene will take care of that. Or you mix it with diesel.

[Maizefarmer]

Guys

The kits are no rocket science - you can build them yourself for a fraction of what they cost. I priced up with local compnents one of the kits advertised on the net (there was a forum link to it) that was priced at around $2000.

That kit could be built locally in Thailand, using local components from a hardware store, except the plastic barrles which would have to be ordered from Bangkok (if you want ones with conical bottoms - which you really should use) - total cost for componenets: less than $200, and barrels Baht 9 000 - 11 000 each (about 100gallons each).

Now as far as the raw ingredients go: to your math very carefully - there is very little you can use in Thailand that will give you a biodiesel produced for less than what diesel costs at the pump currently.

The only ingredient I could find that would justify making the stuf myself, baring in mind the time to make, the cost of putting together a bidodeisel plant and the cost of the ingredients - versus - the cost of pump diesel, was - used cooking oil (i.e. something you would not have to pay anymore than a few Baht for, if you could nt give resurants to give it to you for free (they usualy throw it down the drain - so offer an incentive to them to give it to you).

The genral consensus amongst the pros is that although you can use pure biodeisel in most engines, there are/can be long term effects on rubber based compnnents and residue build ups.

ALL biodiesels can be cleaned of those compounds that damage rubber and build up residue on various internal parts - and for very little extra cost - and everything needed to do that can be purchased quite cheaply in Thailand.

Still, on balance, unless you are going to commercialise production in a big way, I cant see the economics of it adding up (in Thailand).

Tim

[lannarebirth]

For people in Thailand it is a lot easier.

Just use coconut oil, pour it in your tank and you're ready.

No messing with ethanol/methanol.

Coconut oil will keep fluid with temperaturs like in Thailand, and it is the best of the best biodiesel you can get.

Do a search on coconut biodiesel and phillipines. A guy there has a business already for a few years in coconut biodiesel.

Just what are the legal issues in Thailand regards production of biodiesel - can I just start making the stuff, or are there a set of admin/legal hurdles I have to jump through.

If I did - it would only be for my own use. Keep my mouth shut and just get on it with it (???)

Anyone know what's up from a legal perspective?

Tim

Hi Tim,

I grow a few rai of sabudam (Jatropha) which the ag dept is really pushing right now. I did it at the insistance of my girlfriend, but it is my belief that is far more expensive to harvest and process it, than it is to simply buy diesel. Sabudam does make a good living fence for livestock however and you might consider it for that purpose. Then maybe you get some utility from the trees mitigating your expense for the biodiesel, glycerine, and fertilizer the sabudam yields. edit- Sorry, there are no legal issues for personal use.

Edited September 25, 2006 by lannarebirth

[Maizefarmer]

Thanks for that - the conclusion I have come to is that it is a waste of time to grow. As a fence - never thought of it against that background, but on balance think I 'd rather put up a fence - do it properly and it will last 20years.

Tim

For people in Thailand it is a lot easier.

Just use coconut oil, pour it in your tank and you're ready.

No messing with ethanol/methanol.

Coconut oil will keep fluid with temperaturs like in Thailand, and it is the best of the best biodiesel you can get.

Do a search on coconut biodiesel and phillipines. A guy there has a business already for a few years in coconut biodiesel.

Just what are the legal issues in Thailand regards production of biodiesel - can I just start making the stuff, or are there a set of admin/legal hurdles I have to jump through.

If I did - it would only be for my own use. Keep my mouth shut and just get on it with it (???)

Anyone know what's up from a legal perspective?

Tim

Hi Tim,

I grow a few rai of sabudam (Jatropha) which the ag dept is really pushing right now. I did it at the insistance of my girlfriend, but it is my belief that is far more expensive to harvest and process it, than it is to simply buy diesel. Sabudam does make a good living fence for livestock however and you might consider it for that purpose. Then maybe you get some utility from the trees mitigating your expense for the biodiesel, glycerine, and fertilizer the sabudam yields. edit- Sorry, there are no legal issues for personal use.

[udon]

Thanks for that - the conclusion I have come to is that it is a waste of time to grow. As a fence - never thought of it against that background, but on balance think I 'd rather put up a fence - do it properly and it will last 20years.

Tim

Plant JC & it will last 50 years.

[Maizefarmer]

That long ?????????????? - thats good, but the problem is I am going to have to pay someone every year for 50 years to trim it back and keep it in order - and when you have somewhere between 1400 - 1600 rai - becomes expensive.

Tim

[chownah]

That long ?????????????? - thats good, but the problem is I am going to have to pay someone every year for 50 years to trim it back and keep it in order - and when you have somewhere between 1400 - 1600 rai - becomes expensive.

Tim

I'll bet you could get someone to maintain your jatropha fence in exchange for the nuts.....a fence with free maintenance!!!!!

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

That long ?????????????? - thats good, but the problem is I am going to have to pay someone every year for 50 years to trim it back and keep it in order - and when you have somewhere between 1400 - 1600 rai - becomes expensive.

Tim

I'll bet you could get someone to maintain your jatropha fence in exchange for the nuts.....a fence with free maintenance!!!!!

Chownah

Thats a point - didnt think of that .

[yaimar]

Another interesting artical - sure, this stuff is no rocket science to make, and buying a kit for $2000 (as advertised earlier on a posting) is not needed.

Am trying to put it all into perspective against the cost of Thai diesel - currently at around Baht27 - this may well be something I'm prepeared to commission one of the forum members from K Uni in Bkk to take a look into, because as a farm fuel - enourmous potential.

I need clarification regards volume of biofuel produceable per rai per month/year - there are wildly different figures on the nett - which are true/accuarte and realistic.

Tim

HI all during the last year, I made a bio diesel plant. to turn, used cooking oil into Diesel. useing methanol and sulfuric acid, and sodium hydroxide, to effect the changes. one uses little of the acid . but . the process . and use of the chemicals had to be, so so carefully monitered. I had a stainless steel tank made and all the chemicals were ordered for me the total cost of building the plant was 19,000. bht inc safty equipment etc , the idea was to supply local fishermen with a cheap fuel , who we had built boats for post tsunami. the hope was to build and put these plants in fishing villages, NO way. this method was too, NON, foolproof [as claimed ] but, I did produce a diesel and ran on it to test it / costs app 12 bht per ltre. once i had sourced methanol, [wood alchole] from another supplier. plus i still have enough chemicals to for a years. motoring / go to journeytoforever.org. for where my info came from. I am very interested in the coconuts . if any one is out there who has done this in thailand please advise. I amsorry if my post is off target, but I felt it of interest on the subject of bio fuels, On the subject of used cooking oil. When we were sourcing this "waste" i can assure you even the local chicken fryer sells her used oil. and its collected and forwarded to make bio diesel. and there is a price structure. per drum of it. they do not throw it down the drain

[Maizefarmer]

Another interesting artical - sure, this stuff is no rocket science to make, and buying a kit for $2000 (as advertised earlier on a posting) is not needed.

Am trying to put it all into perspective against the cost of Thai diesel - currently at around Baht27 - this may well be something I'm prepeared to commission one of the forum members from K Uni in Bkk to take a look into, because as a farm fuel - enourmous potential.

I need clarification regards volume of biofuel produceable per rai per month/year - there are wildly different figures on the nett - which are true/accuarte and realistic.

Tim

HI all during the last year, I made a bio diesel plant. to turn, used cooking oil into Diesel. useing methanol and sulfuric acid, and sodium hydroxide, to effect the changes. one uses little of the acid . but . the process . and use of the chemicals had to be, so so carefully monitered. I had a stainless steel tank made and all the chemicals were ordered for me the total cost of building the plant was 19,000. bht inc safty equipment etc , the idea was to supply local fishermen with a cheap fuel , who we had built boats for post tsunami. the hope was to build and put these plants in fishing villages, NO way. this method was too, NON, foolproof [as claimed ] but, I did produce a diesel and ran on it to test it / costs app 12 bht per ltre. once i had sourced methanol, [wood alchole] from another supplier. plus i still have enough chemicals to for a years. motoring / go to journeytoforever.org. for where my info came from. I am very interested in the coconuts . if any one is out there who has done this in thailand please advise. I amsorry if my post is off target, but I felt it of interest on the subject of bio fuels, On the subject of used cooking oil. When we were sourcing this "waste" i can assure you even the local chicken fryer sells her used oil. and its collected and forwarded to make bio diesel. and there is a price structure. per drum of it. they do not throw it down the drain

Interesting - your costs per litre based on used cooking oil were Baht 12

Methanol - based on wood alcahol - were you buying from a store or manufacturer?

Where were you gettng the Sodium Hydroxide?

Up here is Loei cooking oil is binned in the drains - what were you paying and how much were you getting?

All very helpful - thanks

Tim

[udon]

yaimar

Welcome to the discussion and thanks for your input.

Just the kind of info we need.

[Mobaan]

A little sidelined ,but still close to the topic:

Does anyone know if Jatropa will grow on old Eucalyptus land . If that was the case -we would have a goldmine coming on line.

[Mobaan]

Check out www.dieselsecret.com.

What do you think about that ?

I bought the starter kit ,just out of couriosity and will brew "something " when I come back to Udon in December.

The fact that no harsh chemicals are used and it is a real low tech way to treat the oil ,seems appealing for places like rural Thailand etc.

[timber]

Mobaan - Would be appreciated if you keep us dated on this. It sounds wonderful, but the problem with vo is the glyerine. How does it get rid of the glyerine? I guess the solution must do something to it. Otherwise problems with the engine.

[Khun Jean]

Reading websites and looking at 'kits' that are targeted mainly to a US public has little relevance for Thailand.

Read all the material and you will come to a simple conclusion.

Coconut Oil!

No chemicals needed, no modification to engines especially engines used for farming on generators, except maybe changing rubber material that is not suited for organic oils. What will that cost? 500 baht?

Thats it!

This is completely impossible for the western world. Coconuts don't grow there. So they mess around with used cooking oil, and other not really suitable stuff. Too many chemicals needed, to get the stuff they want. Why be a chemist , and why source methanol, ethanol, other 'dangerous' chemicals. Why the long process, the filtering, the 'washing', etc, etc...

Second reason is that the temperature in the western world demands oils that stay fluid with low temperatures. All these circumstances are not here in Thailand.

In some places you have to watch out for falling coconuts. These nuts are available in abundance for a pittance.

No glycerine problem, no problem with polymers growing on engine parts. None of the 'bad' characteristics that have to be changed chemically. You might need to mix it with some kerosene (5%) or diesel (10-20%) when temperatures are lower than 25 celsius.

Keep it simple!

As you can see, i am a strong supporter for coconut oil and other products made from it. Still have no coconut orchard however.

[Maizefarmer]

Don't forget to factor in the labour for stripping the coconut and diposal of all the husks (because if it comes down to producing viable quantities you are going to have to consider those factors) i.e. its not JUST the cost of the coconut - there are others things as well. Oh nearly forgot - energy for crushing the coconut.

Used cooking oil - to start with its cheaper to buy, then its cheaper and quicker to convert - and you have a lot less to get rid of afterwards.

Over all my calcs indicate used cooking oil is slightly down in gross cost and time to convert from "raw product in - to end product out"

Have you costed in all the factors I have raised above - to include time and equipment as well?

Would like to see i.e. if I'm wrong please show me because I am putting some serious thought into used cooking oil to reduce a Baht200K fuel bill - in theory it will come down to around Baht 112K - but if someone can show me a better set of figures for biofuel against 200 down to 112 - I'm all ears.

Tim

[Khun Jean]

You are of course correct. My experience is in very small amounts, for personal use only.

Small scale family oriented plants are best suited for processing the coconuts. Collect the oil and use or resell it. A small plant can be made with small amounts of money.

It depends where you are located and if coconuts are a local product.

I lived on Samui and there coconuts are abundant, as in many parts of the country.

Lots an lots of coconuts were collected and transported to Bangkok or Rayong for further processing. The local wholesale price was 2-3 baht per coconut.

On a larger scale you can use machines to extract the oil.

Nothing of the coconut goes to waste, so even the by products, if you can call it that because it depends what part you are after, can be sold. If you have animals, great the coconut is a good food for them.

All depends on how much you want to produce. The more you want to produce, the higher the initial costs.

I estimate you can make a liter coconut oil for about 12 baht, when producing larger quantities it can go down to about 8-10 baht. When it is not used as a food, more oil can be extracted.

For both used cooking oil and coconut oil, the price will go up when it is more popular.

At least you will not be depended on a source for ethanol/methanol , a source for lye, source for used cooking oil,which will rise in cost when biodiesel will get more popular.

Fir this you need one source and that is coconuts.

It is also much more environment friendly, no mistakes with wrong amounts of chemicals because the used oil is of always changing qualities.

And it is better for your engine, as it is more lubricant than even diesel.

It can add about 20% of live to the engine.

Unfortunately a lot is based on small scale use, so it might be different for specific engines.

I think you can find cost breakdowns on the web. I looked more for how to produce it in smaller quantities. I do know that in the Philipines it is used for years as a diesel replacement for vans. You might find something of use there.

[udon]

Welcome back, Maizie, you were missed.

[chownah]

I estimate you can make a liter coconut oil for about 12 baht, when producing larger quantities it can go down to about 8-10 baht. When it is not used as a food, more oil can be extracted.

Khun Jean,

If you are correct then you should be able to make a big pile of money!!! If coconut oil is better for a motor than diesel fuel and if coconut oil can be produced for 12 baht for litre when diesel fuel is costing over 20 baht per litre you should have alot of very eager costumers to buy the better product at a lower price. I suppose I might sound saracastic but that is not my intent.....I am sceptical.....if you are correct then why isn't someone making the big money which your analysis suggests is possible?

Chownah

[Khun Jean]

Because there are people that sell it for 300 baht a litre and even make a bigger pile of money. See another thread on the health forum. (Virgin coconut oil)

And it is used in the food industry and they also make a pile of money.

It is the latest health food hype. Although it is very healthy it is not the cure for all as some would like to tell.

And making a big pile of money as a normal person in Thailand means only one thing. Six pieces of wood and and six feet deep.

If i would stay in Thailand forever i would invest in coconut orchards. They are cheap now, and will be a lot more expensive in the future.

And i would produce coconut oil for food and cosmetic market on a small and profitable niche market.

Government is pitching on palm oil for diesel, although it has more produce per rai it requires other chemicals which cost extra money. Guess who are the main suppliers of methanol and ethanol.