Giving away Thai ridge-back dog

[ecline]

Hi,

My wife and I have a male, Thai ridge-back dog. He is neutered, two-and-one-half years old, chocolate-brown and a beautiful specimen. He was given to us when he was a couple of months old. He loves us both very much, as we do him. Unfortunately he has become fiercely protective of house, home and us, to the point where he will snap at/bite even our closest friends if they get too close to my wife, get too near his food, etc. We are thinking seriously about having him put down as we cannot be sure he won't bite visitors. We know a place here in Chiang Mai that will do so for a good reason, but we would prefer not to do that.

In the off chance that anyone might want him, or knows of a foundation or similar place that might take him, please let me know. I can supply pictures and more info on request. He could be a great dog for someone in the right circumstance, but I have no idea what that right circumstance might be. We are looking now at the various foundations here in Chiang Mai, but they all seem to be trying to get rid of dogs rather than taking more in. If anyone is interested, please contact me. I really don't want to put him down, but at this point I will if we cannot find another home for him. We simply cannot handle him anymore. I seriously recommend against anyone getting one of these dogs unless they have the right environment and know what they are doing. We made a big mistake taking this dog in the first place. Anyway, hoping someone has some constructive suggestions.

Thanks!

[Saan]

You are doing the right thing by the dog and everyone else if you put the dog down. This is a case for hard love. Otherwise you are only passing on a problem which you, who have had the dog since a pup, can't solve. It is unlikely anyone else can solve it and they mightn't be as caring as you and just dump the dog if they can't handle it.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Saan

[Misterwhisper]

You could of course have him trained to lose his fierce protectiveness - or only display it when it is called for. There are places for that even in Thailand, you know. It just takes some effort to find such a place, and it costs money, too. There are also websites that can teach you how you can do it yourself.

As you have already rightly pointed out, he's only so protective of you and your wife because he loves you both so much - and you him. I think it's unfair to go the easy way and either kill him or give him away, because your dog obviously means very well.

[taotoo]

"He loves us both very much"

"We are thinking seriously about having him put down"

The dog can be retrained, the only limitation is the effort you are prepared to put into it. Hopefully he is worth a sufficient amount.

"We made a big mistake taking this dog in the first place."

If it's taken 2 years for it to come to this, it is likely a result of the dog's environment. You didn't make a mistake in taking him in, but you have likely made mistakes since then.

Google the symptoms (e.g. "dog possessive of owner") - you will find lots of advice.

There's also a forum sponsor who may/may not be able to help.

[ecline]

Thanks for the advice. Yes, we made mistakes along the way, mostly due to our ignorance of the issues that come with this breed. Knowing these things now, we never should have taken him in the first place. I will look into having him trained. If the cost isn't over the moon, I will definitely consider it.

[ARISTIDE]

I agree with taotoo

Before you do anything I wish you could see some of the Dog Whisperer here on Youtube

Please type in "The Dog Whisperer Season 1 Episode 19 [feat. Sunshine and Teddy]"

And other episodes about dog aggression and see how Cesar Millan do it. Give him a chance. At lease if it doesn't work at lease you've tried everything.

PLEASE

Hear;s an excerpt

Dealing with obsessive dog behaviors

Obsessive dog behaviors and dog fixations can become as seriously harmful as addictions are for humans. When we laugh at a dog that is fanatically mad over a toy, a bone, a shaft of light, a game of fetch, or the neighbor's cat, it's like laughing at someone who is a falling-down drunk.

Sure, his behavior looks comical at the moment, but the truth is, he's truly got no physical or psychological control over himself.

Someday, he may really hurt himself and those around him. That's exactly what obsessive behavior is to a dog - an addiction. An interesting fact is that the term addiction derives from the Latin word addicere, to sentence. When we allow our dogs' habits to progress to the point of obsession and/or addiction, we are actually "sentencing" them to a very frustrated, unhappy existence.

Correcting obsessive dog behaviors

Make sure your dog is properly exercised and is not living with pent-up energy. Most of the time an obsession is something that the dog has discovered can work as an outlet for anxiety, frustration, or suppressed energy.

Correct obsessive/possessive behavior immediately: this is where the importance of knowing your dog comes in. You must learn to recognize the physical cues and energy signs that your dog is getting into an obsessive state, and stop her at level one before she escalates to level ten. Your job should be at that very moment to correct the dog, to bring her to the highest level of submission, keeping the toy or object of obsession (if that's what it is) next to her until she moves away from it voluntarily. Most people will snatch a toy away and say, "No!" By doing this, they can escalate the obsession into a higher level - making the object prey, and making you a potential target. Your dog may not want to bite a family member, but she's in a state now where she can't stop on her own. Remember, dogs don't rationalize.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ARISTIDE

[ARISTIDE]

Sorry may be in case of your dog the issue is not "'obsessive" rather more like a dominant case

[fredge45]

Sorry may be in case of your dog the issue is not "'obsessive" rather more like a dominant case

As you made him into what he is, you owe it not only to the dog as well as yourself to modify this behavior.

Yes, it can be done but it will require work on your part. Having the dog killed (don't use the euphanism "put down" as you are having him killed) is your easy way out and really is not an acceptable option to even be considered.

Apologizing in advance if I make you angry... the fault lies with you, not the dog, so use the opportunity to learn please.

[alfieconn]

Thanks for the advice. Yes, we made mistakes along the way, mostly due to our ignorance of the issues that come with this breed. Knowing these things now, we never should have taken him in the first place. I will look into having him trained. If the cost isn't over the moon, I will definitely consider it.

It's not "ignorance of the issues that come with this breed " as i have many friends who have this breed and don't have any problems , so perhaps it's your ignorance of dogs in general ! next time perhaps your best to get yourself a kitten or even a hamster

[ammagic]

Try Nienke Lucky Dogs in Doi Saket - very good at training. Not sure about cost. Thai Ridgebacks should really only be owned by people who know how to handle them. IMHO. Beautiful dogs but not so easy to own. Many people have them for protection but they can be a bit too aggressive for my liking . Just have Thai mixed breed dogs - all rescued - fabulous pets!

[ARISTIDE]

All I know that the dog loves the owner but the dog also doesn't want his life to end as well. We don't have the right to take his life and he didn't want to die particular the dog love the owner so much. Why not try changing your behavior toward him first and see what happen.

[orang37]

Best wishes in your quest to find a new home for your dog !

I have a friend here who took on a wonderful looking blue-grey coated Thai Ridgeback, but had to give him away because of his extreme possessiveness (with his children, especially), and general level of aggression.

Out of curiosity sparked by this thread I did a look-see on-line about the Ridgeback's temperament, and found this thread which has some interesting information and comments ... about the extent to which they can be trained ... from Thai Ridgeback owners:

http://www.trdusa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2316&sid=d9f4ee749bdffb67d31fb78cf7b3592e

cheers, ~o:37;

[Saan]

It is a pariah dog, a semi domesticated animal similar to Dingoes in Australia. There have been some notorious cases of Dingoes killing children. Dingoes can be lovely animals but they are not Labrador pups and I suspect the same can be said of the Thai Ridgeback.

If you have a dog that bites and there is any chance of it getting loose or near kids then there is a serious problem.

[xen]

It is a pariah dog, a semi domesticated animal similar to Dingoes in Australia. There have been some notorious cases of Dingoes killing children. Dingoes can be lovely animals but they are not Labrador pups and I suspect the same can be said of the Thai Ridgeback.

If you have a dog that bites and there is any chance of it getting loose or near kids then there is a serious problem.

From what i understand Dingos have similar traits to the Ridgebacks once they accept you as theirs and it both a plus as well as a minus.. It seems to me that once either a dingo or a ridgeback connects with you they see it as their duty to protect you and your family from intruders for the length of their life and they will never comprehend why you would give them away - they will end up dying from a broken heart if you do so. They are certainly not unintelligent creatures . My feeling is you need to give this creature your loyalty just as he has pledged his loyalty to you and your family as difficult as it may be. If it means keeping him in fence back yard or moving to a small farm or having him trained you must see out the kharmic ties you have with this creature.

Ridgebacks , and dingoes, are one of the few dogs i really like but i will never own one because of this trait and in all honesty i do not want the responsibility.

[Mousehound]

I had a very large Ridgeback. very much a one man dog and a great watchdog with the family but I never trusted him with anyone else although he was outwardly not aggressive he would snap if people put there arms around him - he would growl a warning first, fortunately. I never let him out unattended and had the vet muzzle him - for the vets sake. The only reason he did not bite anyone was I trained him that I was definitely the Alpha male and he would be in trouble if he displayed aggression to anyone I or the family accepted. He was a great dog and as we had rescued him in the first place I made the effort and trained him - but I never let any of the family totally trust him. Ultimately we never had a problem and he died of old age. But I would not have another Ridgeback unless I was on my own and had a large property for it to run about in. Good that the OP is trying to do the right thing. Hope it works out. Some of these trainers can do amazing things with animals - worth a try.

[EmptyHead]

Well, maybe you should try being a leader before you put him down. And you should research what it means to be a leader too.

Edited July 21, 2015 by EmptyHead

[Nienke]

Okay, look at it this way:
a person, who is very confident, will not be bothered by the minor stuff, the screaming yelling scolding of others, by strangers entering his property, talking to his loved ones, etc. . He (quicker he than a she) will give a quick look, check out the situation, shrug the shoulders and let the screamer scream, and continue with whatever he was doing. In case of doubt, he will get up and check it out closer.
A very confident person, walks calm, talks calm, is calm. A very confident person will rather avoid confrontation and prefers to keep the peace.
You can FEEL when a very confident person walks into a room. You KNOW not to confront a person like this.
Very confident persons are rare.

Now, take an anxious, insecure person. They either talk fast, walk fast, move fast, make themselves obviously bigger, show conflicting signals, react quicker, are quicker insecure about their own 'safety', that of their loved ones and property/territory. They are much quicker in confronting.
Or, they are shy, quiet, and hide quicker. (There is, of course, a lot more to it, but I hope you understand what I am aiming at)

Humans and dogs do not differ much in this.




Dogs checking out strangers suspiciously isn't abnormal behavior, but attacking/biting every foe and friend encountered is not normal.
Abnormal behavior can be a result of several factors: inheritance, prenatal experiences, imprinting, early learning/socialization or lack of it, lack of guidance and boundaries provided by the owners, misunderstanding by the owners of dog behavior development, -cognition and -language, and illness.


Thai Ridgeback dogs have originally been bred to guard, next to hunting and as a companion dog, so it is not surprising that this breed is naturally rather suspicious of strangers. Therefore, proper socialization is an absolute must. Socialization window closes around 3 - 3 1/2 months of age.
The op's dog was given to him when he was several months old. Any idea about the socialization of this dog?
Any idea about the parent dogs? What was/is their physical and mental health? How is the mother dog towards strangers, to familiar people, to other dogs? Where and how was she kept?

When the dog as pup came to the OP's house, how was the behavior? How did the OP and wife dealt with this behavior?
What kind of training did the dog receive from the owners? What kind of training methods used?
How did the owners react when the dog showed suspicion towards strangers before and now?
When the dog did/does something naughty, how did/does the owner dealt/deals with it?

Where was the dog kept? How often did the dog go outside? And how, accompanied or alone?
How much aerobic exercise does the dog receive? How much mental exercise does the dog receive? How often do the owners play with the dog? What kind of games?

What kind of food (dog food brand) is given to the dog?
Any health history of the dog.


How much basic understanding does the OP have on dog behavior development and dog language?
How much understanding does the OP has of classical conditioning and operant conditioning and the 4 quadrants of the operant conditioning? Of desensitization and counter-conditioning?


Trying to 'solve' the problem The Dog Whisperer's way will not chance the dog's worries about strangers. It may suppress the behavior but won't chance it. Also, the dog may 'behave' and look under control, as long as the 'threat' (that will be the owner then) is there. But when the threat is out of sight ... it's free game.
So, this way of training has a high chance of changing the dog in a ticking time-bomb, plus there is an increased chance the dog (who never bit the owner before) will now snap at or, worse, bite the owner out of self-defense.

My first impression is, based on what ecline writes in his Opening post (upon more indebt information, it is possible that this impression chances), there is a chance to modify this dog's behavior. But it will not be the quick fix which always seems to be the case on television. It will need investment, lots of time, lots of patience, willingness to learn to understand the dog and his motivations, that means willingness to learn about the basics of dog behavior development -language learning principles, training techniques. And it involves careful environmental management and designing a carefully planned step-by-little-step training program that can be (and will be) modified whenever necessary.


Euthanizing him now, without having tried to rehab him will not be humane. The vet who is willing to put this dog down now should be ashamed of him or herself and study the oath, that each vet has to make, again.

[ecline]

Thanks for the suggestions regarding kittens, hamsters and the like. Note that I will not be getting any of those, and when our ridge back is gone we will definitely be getting another dog. Saying ridge backs don't have any issues is like saying pit bulls and and rotweilers don't have issues. Get your own ridge back, raise him for nearly three years, then get back to me with your comments. And for the record, I have no moral qualms about having a dog put down humanely. I would rather put a dog down than have it maul one of the neighbors children. To date our dog has bitten me, my mother and several of my closest friends. I am completely unmoved by suggestions that a dog should never be put down. Though obviously it is not something anyone would want to do under normal circumstances.

As I said before, our mistake was taking this dog in the first place. We were uninformed about, and ill-prepared for, the type of attention a dog like this requires. We live on three rai in the countryside, fenced off so he cannot get out. He has been in a loving environment since the day we got him, with plenty of other people coming around the house. I would dare to say that we have a pretty much perfect environment for raising a dog. With all dogs I have ever owned, this would be enough and no special training would be required. Suggestions that we somehow made him into the potentially dangerous animal that he is today are way off the mark.

When I posted this I knew I would be flamed. But there have been some constructive suggestions and I am especially thankful for those. In any case, we seem to have located a new home for him already. One with plenty of land and people who have the experience and dedication to hopefully turn him around.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ecline

[Saan]

Thanks for the suggestions regarding kittens, hamsters and the like. Note that I will not be getting any of those, and when our ridge back is gone we will definitely be getting another dog. Saying ridge backs don't have any issues is like saying pit bulls and and rotweilers don't have issues. Get your own ridge back, raise him for nearly three years, then get back to me with your comments. And for the record, I have no moral qualms about having a dog put down humanely. I would rather put a dog down than have it maul one of the neighbors children. To date our dog has bitten me, my mother and several of my closest friends. I am completely unmoved by suggestions that a dog should never be put down. Though obviously it is not something anyone would want to do under normal circumstances.

As I said before, our mistake was taking this dog in the first place. We were uninformed about, and ill-prepared for, the type of attention a dog like this requires. We live on three rai in the countryside, fenced off so he cannot get out. He has been in a loving environment since the day we got him, with plenty of other people coming around the house. I would dare to say that we have a pretty much perfect environment for raising a dog. With all dogs I have ever owned, this would be enough and no special training would be required. Suggestions that we somehow made him into the potentially dangerous animal that he is today are way off the mark.

When I posted this I knew I would be flamed. But there have been some constructive suggestions and I am especially thankful for those. In any case, we seem to have located a new home for him already. One with plenty of land and people who have the experience and dedication to hopefully turn him around.

I am happy to hear that you have found a home for your and hope it all works.

When you get your new puppy start out straight away training him not to mouth you. He will try to playfully gnaw on your finger. But over time this can grow into nips, playful or otherwise. One way to stop it is to roll his lip into to his mouth while he is trying to do this and he will end up giving himself a nip. He will soon stop.

[ARISTIDE]

Thanks for the updates, I'm so happy that he find a new home. Talking about "We were uninformed about, and ill-prepared for" I hope you know about another Thai breed that is known as aggressive called "Thai bangkaew dog" which is extremely loyal and aggressive toward others. But I've seen plenty of kind pit bulls and good Thai bangkaew dog, so its depend on how the owner raise them.

If you think Thai Ridgeback is bad, you don't know Thai bangkaew dog!

Thanks for the suggestions regarding kittens, hamsters and the like. Note that I will not be getting any of those, and when our ridge back is gone we will definitely be getting another dog. Saying ridge backs don't have any issues is like saying pit bulls and and rotweilers don't have issues. Get your own ridge back, raise him for nearly three years, then get back to me with your comments. And for the record, I have no moral qualms about having a dog put down humanely. I would rather put a dog down than have it maul one of the neighbors children. To date our dog has bitten me, my mother and several of my closest friends. I am completely unmoved by suggestions that a dog should never be put down. Though obviously it is not something anyone would want to do under normal circumstances.

As I said before, our mistake was taking this dog in the first place. We were uninformed about, and ill-prepared for, the type of attention a dog like this requires. We live on three rai in the countryside, fenced off so he cannot get out. He has been in a loving environment since the day we got him, with plenty of other people coming around the house. I would dare to say that we have a pretty much perfect environment for raising a dog. With all dogs I have ever owned, this would be enough and no special training would be required. Suggestions that we somehow made him into the potentially dangerous animal that he is today are way off the mark.

When I posted this I knew I would be flamed. But there have been some constructive suggestions and I am especially thankful for those. In any case, we seem to have located a new home for him already. One with plenty of land and people who have the experience and dedication to hopefully turn him around.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ARISTIDE

[ecline]

Thanks for the suggestions regarding kittens, hamsters and the like. Note that I will not be getting any of those, and when our ridge back is gone we will definitely be getting another dog. Saying ridge backs don't have any issues is like saying pit bulls and and rotweilers don't have issues. Get your own ridge back, raise him for nearly three years, then get back to me with your comments. And for the record, I have no moral qualms about having a dog put down humanely. I would rather put a dog down than have it maul one of the neighbors children. To date our dog has bitten me, my mother and several of my closest friends. I am completely unmoved by suggestions that a dog should never be put down. Though obviously it is not something anyone would want to do under normal circumstances.

As I said before, our mistake was taking this dog in the first place. We were uninformed about, and ill-prepared for, the type of attention a dog like this requires. We live on three rai in the countryside, fenced off so he cannot get out. He has been in a loving environment since the day we got him, with plenty of other people coming around the house. I would dare to say that we have a pretty much perfect environment for raising a dog. With all dogs I have ever owned, this would be enough and no special training would be required. Suggestions that we somehow made him into the potentially dangerous animal that he is today are way off the mark.

When I posted this I knew I would be flamed. But there have been some constructive suggestions and I am especially thankful for those. In any case, we seem to have located a new home for him already. One with plenty of land and people who have the experience and dedication to hopefully turn him around.

I am happy to hear that you have found a home for your and hope it all works.

When you get your new puppy start out straight away training him not to mouth you. He will try to playfully gnaw on your finger. But over time this can grow into nips, playful or otherwise. One way to stop it is to roll his lip into to his mouth while he is trying to do this and he will end up giving himself a nip. He will soon stop.

Nice tip! I will remember that one. Thx

[LarryBird]

Boss, I can't even read some of the ridiculous advice you've been given on here. A dog should be something that brings you enjoyment, pleasure. It exists for its owner and family, not the other way around. If he's snapping at people, causing you overwhelming aggravation, get rid of it and find a nice dog, end of story.