What makes me daughter officially Thai?

[catman20]

My girl friend is Thai and our son was born in Thailand, my signature was asked for at the hospital, i think that was to register the birth, we were then asked if the boy was to be Thai or British we said Thai, end of story.

He can be both Thai and British. All you have to do is have him registered at the British Embassy, assuming that you are noted as the father on the Birth Certificate.

I wouldn't want to do that to him, as bad as it can be here, he is still better off in Thailand.

really ???????????????????

[Liquorice]

Be very careful about thinking your children have Dual Nationality or Dual Citizenship. I'd do some research on this if I were you.

My research found that Thailand DOES NOT allow dual citizenship, but they also DO NOT enforce it unless you throw it in their face. The common thinking is if you DO NOT open your mouth about having two passports then there should never be a problem and everything will work as you want or expect with regard to Thailand.

Whatever passport you use to entry a country, that is the passport you use to leave that country. Don't make the mistake of going to some Thai government department and asking questions about dual citizenship and mentioning you have two passports.

Do your own research on this before taking my word or anyone else's word on this.

I totally agree with your sentiments oneday.

The proof of the pudding is in the Thai Nationality Act.

Here's a few snippets.

Chapter 2.

Loss of Thai Nationality

__________________________

.

Section 14.^[2] A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

After consideration of the intention for the renunciation, the Minister shall grant permission if there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father, mother, or a foreign nationality, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.

Section 17.^[5] With respect to a person of an alien parent who was born within the Thai Kingdom and acquires Thai nationality, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

1. He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father or mother has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;
2. There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father, mother, or in a foreign nationality;
3. He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

The revocation of Thai nationality in (1) or (2) shall lie with the discretion of the Minister while in the event of (3) or (4), the Court shall order the revocation upon request of the public prosecutor.

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

1. The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
2. There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
3. He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;
5. He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;
6. He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this Section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked, in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two. The Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, submit the matter to the King.

Section 21.²⁴ A person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father or mother

and may acquire the nationality of his father or mo^[8]ther according to law on nationality of his father or mother shall lose Thai nationality if he obtains an alien identification card under the law on alien registration.

Thailand Nationality Act.pdf

[p_brownstone]

Be very careful about thinking your children have Dual Nationality or Dual Citizenship. I'd do some research on this if I were you.

My research found that Thailand DOES NOT allow dual citizenship, but they also DO NOT enforce it unless you throw it in their face. The common thinking is if you DO NOT open your mouth about having two passports then there should never be a problem and everything will work as you want or expect with regard to Thailand.

Whatever passport you use to entry a country, that is the passport you use to leave that country. Don't make the mistake of going to some Thai government department and asking questions about dual citizenship and mentioning you have two passports.

Do your own research on this before taking my word or anyone else's word on this.

I totally agree with your sentiments oneday.

The proof of the pudding is in the Thai Nationality Act.

Here's a few snippets.

Chapter 2.

Loss of Thai Nationality

__________________________

.

Section 14.^[2] A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

After consideration of the intention for the renunciation, the Minister shall grant permission if there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father, mother, or a foreign nationality, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.

Section 17.^[5] With respect to a person of an alien parent who was born within the Thai Kingdom and acquires Thai nationality, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

1. He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father or mother has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;
2. There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father, mother, or in a foreign nationality;
3. He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

The revocation of Thai nationality in (1) or (2) shall lie with the discretion of the Minister while in the event of (3) or (4), the Court shall order the revocation upon request of the public prosecutor.

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

1. The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
2. There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
3. He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;
5. He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;
6. He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this Section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked, in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two. The Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, submit the matter to the King.

Section 21.²⁴ A person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father or mother

and may acquire the nationality of his father or mo^[8]ther according to law on nationality of his father or mother shall lose Thai nationality if he obtains an alien identification card under the law on alien registration.

Quiet day at the Office so that's my only excuse for responding / wasting my time on a Topic which has been done to death over the past many years; with several contributing Posts by myself I must confess.

"oneday"s assertion that "My research found that Thailand DOES NOT allow dual citizenship" is totally untrue.The important thing to Note is that there is absolutely NO Thai Legislation forbidding Dual Nationality for a Thai Citizen (the other Nation may have their own Legislation of course but, that said, no Foreign Nation can insist that a Thai National must abandon his / her Thai Nationality, nor can Thailand insist the same).

There is an Internationally accepted Civil Law dictum: nullum crimen sine lege - "if there is no Law there cannot be a Crime". In other words unless a Country / State specifically legislates that, for example in this case, Dual Citizen is not lawful then there is no legal offence and the situation is acceptable ........ and therefore no penalty can be imposed, particularly under the Thai legislation Reference by "oneday" when a Child is born of mixed Parents - quite obviously the Child has no control over the circumstances of his / her birth and the consequences regarding Nationality.

Certainly there is an argument that a Thai National who knowingly applies for Foreign Citizenship may be considered "un-loyal" to his Native Land and for that reason he could have his Thai Citizenship revoked under various Provisions of the Legislation "oneday" quotes but this same provision is enshrined in other Natios' laws.

Similarly under other Legislation "oneday" quotes a Thai may be deprived of his Thai Citizenship if he proves to be a significant threat to the Nation or the Monarchy and so on; again however this is a fairly International provision to protect the interests of a Country / State in the face of insurrection etc. etc. and is by no means restricted to Thailand.

Facts :

There are thousands - probably tens of thousands - of Thais who hold 2 (or even more) Passports (including my Daughter, now 32 years old who travels regularly to / from UK to Thailand using both Passports without any problem in all that time).

This Legislation will never change - there are simply too many Thais, senior figures, including a former Prime Minister and several Senators and their children - who make regular use of the the Dual Nationality situation.

I also know 4 "Farang", 3 Brits and 1 American, who obtained full Thai Citizenship, I.D. Card, Passport etc., and still retained their original Nationality.

Finally there is absolutely no need to be paranoid and desperately conceal your Dual Nationality / 2nd Passport, it's never a problem unless you meet a junior Immigration Officer and in that case simply ask for a more Senior official who will know the regulations.

Get your child Dual Nationality, there are virtually no downsides to that and a lot of potential benefits.

Patrick

[samran]

Be very careful about thinking your children have Dual Nationality or Dual Citizenship. I'd do some research on this if I were you.

My research found that Thailand DOES NOT allow dual citizenship, but they also DO NOT enforce it unless you throw it in their face. The common thinking is if you DO NOT open your mouth about having two passports then there should never be a problem and everything will work as you want or expect with regard to Thailand.

Whatever passport you use to entry a country, that is the passport you use to leave that country. Don't make the mistake of going to some Thai government department and asking questions about dual citizenship and mentioning you have two passports.

Do your own research on this before taking my word or anyone else's word on this.

I totally agree with your sentiments oneday.

The proof of the pudding is in the Thai Nationality Act.

Here's a few snippets.

Chapter 2.

Loss of Thai Nationality

__________________________

.

Section 14.^[2] A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

After consideration of the intention for the renunciation, the Minister shall grant permission if there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father, mother, or a foreign nationality, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.

Section 17.^[5] With respect to a person of an alien parent who was born within the Thai Kingdom and acquires Thai nationality, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

1. He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father or mother has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;
2. There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father, mother, or in a foreign nationality;
3. He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

The revocation of Thai nationality in (1) or (2) shall lie with the discretion of the Minister while in the event of (3) or (4), the Court shall order the revocation upon request of the public prosecutor.

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

1. The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
2. There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
3. He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;
5. He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;
6. He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this Section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked, in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two. The Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, submit the matter to the King.

Section 21.²⁴ A person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father or mother

and may acquire the nationality of his father or mo^[8]ther according to law on nationality of his father or mother shall lose Thai nationality if he obtains an alien identification card under the law on alien registration.

To answer the OP:

- The Thai birth certificate states the childs nationality. In this case, it says 'Thai'. Then the child is Thai. Technically speaking, the child is Thai by birth due to a Thai national. The BC proves it.

As for the redherring above - it has been done to death.

Dual nationality for all intents and purposes has been legal since version three of the citizenship act in 1992.

With respect to the above

Section 14: Thai child who was also born with another nationality of a parent has the choice, within one year of turning 20 to renounce. If they don't, no penalty. They remain Thai.

Section 17: Only applies to children born in Thailand to two foreign parents who both have permanent residence, making the child eligble for Thai citizenship if born in Thailand. Note the 'person born of an alien parent' bit. Most people aquire Thai nationality through a Thai parent. And this doesn't make it illegal to be dual national for this category of Thai citizen. Only that they can't use a foreign passport to enter Thailand.

Section 19: Similar to the above. Can't use the foreign passport to enter Thailand.

Section 21: Basically means that if a person with Thai citizenship, decides for some bizarre reason, to apply and gain permanent residency in their foreign passport, then they lose Thai nationality.

Edited July 23, 2015 by samran

[krisb]

Thank you Samran!

Awesome explanation of the act.

[Arkady]

In practical terms Section 14 means that they have the option but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality between their 20th and 21st birthday with minimal hassle. The Ministry of the Interior doesn't like this and is on record advising Thai parents living abroad that they have to make sure their dual national kids renounce their Thai nationality when they are 20, if they want to stay foreign. However, there is no legal basis for this advice - just wishful thinking and malice towards ignorant Thai parents (mainly women) living abroad with foreign spouses. The only reason anyone might actually wish to do this would be retain the nationality of another country that specifically prohibits dual nationality. However, most of these countries don't demand evidence that the other nationality has been renounced. For example in anally retentive Singapore they will take prompt action if evidence emerges of a citizen using another nationality, e.g. travelling to Singapore with a Singapore passport that shows no evidence of having been in the departure country (usually in the case of Singaporeans living abroad). However, they will not normally take action against people who discretely keep their other nationality in their back pocket. Even in Malaysia the people from Malacca who got a special right to remain British after independence can keep their British nationality, as long as they don't get a British passport and travel to the UK on it which would make it obvious to an IO they had one on their return. They are free to use their British nationality to get a UK right of abode stamp in their Malaysian passports though. Maybe countries like North Korea would demand evidence of renunciation but I would be surprised if the Thai MoI, in spite of its misleading advice, has received more applications to renounce nationality under Section 14 than could be counted on the fingers of a mutilated hand.

The draft constitution contains a clause that will clarify things further, if it is adopted. It says no one who is Thai from birth may be involuntarily separated from his her Thai nationality or words to that effect. This seems even to cover those mentioned by Samran who are Thai from birth in Thailand to two foreign parents, both of whom had permanent residence when they were born. Previously this was the most tenuous class of Thai nationality and there were cases of it being revoked.

[Arkady]

I can't understand the poster who seems to be saying that his child will be better off with Thai nationality only, if he doesn't get him a British passport. Assuming the poster is British by birth, rather than by descent, his child is British, whether he bothers to get a passport or not. Having a British passport will be extremely useful in case he ever wants to travel or study in farang countries, unless the Thai passport is miraculously elevated to allow visa free travel by then, and, if Britain remains in the EU, it provides the right to live and work in any EU country. Getting a British passport for a child is relatively easy while you are around but may not be so easy for him, if you are not and he lacks key documents. The poster should make the modest investment in a British passport for his child and give him the choice of whether to use it or not in future.

[krisb]

I can't understand the poster who seems to be saying that his child will be better off with Thai nationality only, if he doesn't get him a British passport. Assuming the poster is British by birth, rather than by descent, his child is British, whether he bothers to get a passport or not. Having a British passport will be extremely useful in case he ever wants to travel or study in farang countries, unless the Thai passport is miraculously elevated to allow visa free travel by then, and, if Britain remains in the EU, it provides the right to live and work in any EU country. Getting a British passport for a child is relatively easy while you are around but may not be so easy for him, if you are not and he lacks key documents. The poster should make the modest investment in a British passport for his child and give him the choice of whether to use it or not in future.

I don't get it either.

To me it's a no brainer to seize the opportunity.

[steve187]

My girl friend is Thai and our son was born in Thailand, my signature was asked for at the hospital, i think that was to register the birth, we were then asked if the boy was to be Thai or British we said Thai, end of story.

can be both in certain circumstances, depends on your British heritage circumstances

[SGX]

I can't understand the poster who seems to be saying that his child will be better off with Thai nationality only, if he doesn't get him a British passport. Assuming the poster is British by birth, rather than by descent, his child is British, whether he bothers to get a passport or not. Having a British passport will be extremely useful in case he ever wants to travel or study in farang countries, unless the Thai passport is miraculously elevated to allow visa free travel by then, and, if Britain remains in the EU, it provides the right to live and work in any EU country. Getting a British passport for a child is relatively easy while you are around but may not be so easy for him, if you are not and he lacks key documents. The poster should make the modest investment in a British passport for his child and give him the choice of whether to use it or not in future.

I don't get it either.

To me it's a no brainer to seize the opportunity.

Agree, another angry teen , im sure

[krisb]

I can't understand the poster who seems to be saying that his child will be better off with Thai nationality only, if he doesn't get him a British passport. Assuming the poster is British by birth, rather than by descent, his child is British, whether he bothers to get a passport or not. Having a British passport will be extremely useful in case he ever wants to travel or study in farang countries, unless the Thai passport is miraculously elevated to allow visa free travel by then, and, if Britain remains in the EU, it provides the right to live and work in any EU country. Getting a British passport for a child is relatively easy while you are around but may not be so easy for him, if you are not and he lacks key documents. The poster should make the modest investment in a British passport for his child and give him the choice of whether to use it or not in future.

I don't get it either.

To me it's a no brainer to seize the opportunity.

Agree, another angry teen , im sure

Yeah well the way I see it it's about giving your children the most you can offer in life and opening windows of opportunity.

Plus I figure if mine ever mucks around living in Australia I can threaten her with "you're going to live with Yai in the village "