KLM plane makes landing in severe storm at Schiphol Airport (VIDEO)

[webfact]

KLM B777 approach rather rough plane rolls from left to right. just before the runway hit a dangerous roll to the right.

-- 2015-07-27

[jpinx]

Nice work

[catterwell]

Wow! Quite a hairy landing with gusty crosswinds from the port side.

[mattk1]

I would be absolutely terrified if I was on that flight!

[MaxYakov]

For something like this I go to PPRuNe to see what the Pros (and gadabouts) have to say. The opinions varied, but here's one:

"Having flown the 77W in winds like that a few times myself and watching I can safely say some of that wing waggling would have been PIO. ( Pilot induced oscillations )
It's very easy to over control in those situations.

I think it looked a lot worse than it really was."

And another from a Netherlands poster:

"EXEPT [sic] winds from 320/40G50. Which was the case here. That is the worst wind direction you can throw at Schiphol. And once the airplane reaches "below treetop altitude" you can expect anything with that wind."

Apparently, this was the crew's second attempt having done a "go around" prior to this attempt.

Edited July 27, 2015 by MaxYakov

[jpinx]

For something like this I go to PPRuNe to see what the Pros (and gadabouts) have to say. The opinions varied, but here's one:

"Having flown the 77W in winds like that a few times myself and watching I can safely say some of that wing waggling would have been PIO. ( Pilot induced oscillations )

It's very easy to over control in those situations.

I think it looked a lot worse than it really was."

And another from a Netherlands poster:

"EXEPT [sic] winds from 320/40G50. Which was the case here. That is the worst wind direction you can throw at Schiphol. And once the airplane reaches "below treetop altitude" you can expect anything with that wind."

Apparently, this was the crew's second attempt having done a "go around" prior to this attempt.

Pprune has as many trolls and wannabes as TV Your first quote is probably a wannabe -- non-specific and no technical details. Blaming the pilot for a few wobbles in that environment is laughable. Every airport has it's gremlins, including wind effects. Your 2nd quote appears much more reliable.

Either way -- the aircraft landed safely and reasonably smoothly, and stuck to the ground.

[Chicog]

Reasonably smooth? That last roll must have moistened the underpants a tad!

[jpinx]

Reasonably smooth? That last roll must have moistened the underpants a tad!

That depends on how many times you've been in that situation

[Somtamnication]

Kudos to the pilots. Scary stuff!

[NeverSure]

"...just before the runway hit a dangerous roll to the right."

I didn't see anything dangerous. I saw indications of turbulence and a strong, gusting cross wind but they handled it well.

At the very beginning of the vid the plane is already crabbing to the right - pointing to the right but going straight ahead. That's done to maintain a direction against a crosswind. Over the fence the plane is straighter and at the last moment appears to roll to the right which might be to kick the plane right to maintain center line. Gusts just happen and the pilot has to react as they occur. The landing itself was very nice.

I'll fly with those guys anytime.

Cheers.

[MaxYakov]

For something like this I go to PPRuNe to see what the Pros (and gadabouts) have to say. The opinions varied, but here's one:

"Having flown the 77W in winds like that a few times myself and watching I can safely say some of that wing waggling would have been PIO. ( Pilot induced oscillations )

It's very easy to over control in those situations.

I think it looked a lot worse than it really was."

And another from a Netherlands poster:

"EXEPT [sic] winds from 320/40G50. Which was the case here. That is the worst wind direction you can throw at Schiphol. And once the airplane reaches "below treetop altitude" you can expect anything with that wind."

Apparently, this was the crew's second attempt having done a "go around" prior to this attempt.

Pprune has as many trolls and wannabes as TV Your first quote is probably a wannabe -- non-specific and no technical details. Blaming the pilot for a few wobbles in that environment is laughable. Every airport has it's gremlins, including wind effects. Your 2nd quote appears much more reliable.

Either way -- the aircraft landed safely and reasonably smoothly, and stuck to the ground.

Yes, it's possible. The first post (the possible wannabe) is a sixteen-year member with almost 2,000 posts. One has to use judgment by critically evaluating the stated content

And even wannabe's may not be stupid or ignorant. They're enthusiasts that are just not hands-on, right? In any event, it's an alternative source for opinion on all sorts of aviation issues and often a lot more interesting reading than TV, IMHO.

Here's another:

"I was watching the rudder at the moment of the low level right bank. It did not seem to have been 'stood on' - left - to the reduce the drift and then right aileron (perhaps too much) to keep wings level. Mother nature biting you with no warning. Like all ladies she needs gentle but firm handling. No back-chat.

It is surprising to see AMS (6 rwys) reduced to single operation by NW storms. It is more common than you might think and there are very few alternates in the region. EDDK Cologne is the only NW rwy. Most other rwys are more SW'ly and thus worse X-winds. Fuel in the tanks and a solid plan are essential on such days."

You think this one might be a Microsoft Flight Simulator flyer?

Edited July 27, 2015 by MaxYakov

[khaosai]

It could be slight over controlling on the part of the pilot, but could equally be due to the effects of turbulence. It's a stable aircraft to fly, and crosswind landings up to 45 knots are challenging but perfectly manageable for a well trained crew.

As an observation, some crews who are new to type do over control in gusty conditions. Roll rate, for a large aircraft is fairly responsive.

Not actually sure what the crosswind component was on this occasion, but when it's more than approximately 30 to 35 knots you don't want land in a side slip (wing low) condition.

Overall a job well done.

Edited July 27, 2015 by khaosai

[Johnnie99]

New trousers all round.

[jpinx]

For something like this I go to PPRuNe to see what the Pros (and gadabouts) have to say. The opinions varied, but here's one:

"Having flown the 77W in winds like that a few times myself and watching I can safely say some of that wing waggling would have been PIO. ( Pilot induced oscillations )

It's very easy to over control in those situations.

I think it looked a lot worse than it really was."

And another from a Netherlands poster:

"EXEPT [sic] winds from 320/40G50. Which was the case here. That is the worst wind direction you can throw at Schiphol. And once the airplane reaches "below treetop altitude" you can expect anything with that wind."

Apparently, this was the crew's second attempt having done a "go around" prior to this attempt.

Pprune has as many trolls and wannabes as TV Your first quote is probably a wannabe -- non-specific and no technical details. Blaming the pilot for a few wobbles in that environment is laughable. Every airport has it's gremlins, including wind effects. Your 2nd quote appears much more reliable.

Either way -- the aircraft landed safely and reasonably smoothly, and stuck to the ground.

Yes, it's possible. The first post (the possible wannabe) is a sixteen-year member with almost 2,000 posts. One has to use judgment by critically evaluating the stated content

And even wannabe's may not be stupid or ignorant. They're enthusiasts that are just not hands-on, right? In any event, it's an alternative source for opinion on all sorts of aviation issues and often a lot more interesting reading than TV, IMHO.

Here's another:

"I was watching the rudder at the moment of the low level right bank. It did not seem to have been 'stood on' - left - to the reduce the drift and then right aileron (perhaps too much) to keep wings level. Mother nature biting you with no warning. Like all ladies she needs gentle but firm handling. No back-chat.

It is surprising to see AMS (6 rwys) reduced to single operation by NW storms. It is more common than you might think and there are very few alternates in the region. EDDK Cologne is the only NW rwy. Most other rwys are more SW'ly and thus worse X-winds. Fuel in the tanks and a solid plan are essential on such days."

You think this one might be a Microsoft Flight Simulator flyer?

Obviously I don't know, but I do know a guy who flies the sim all day, every day and studies all the relevant aircraft details and airport information. His knowledge is staggering and he frequently corrects many professional, hands-on jockeys -- so, never say never

Lots of the wannabes try to watch control surfaces in order to decide what the pilot was going and why, but the reality is a bit different. The pilot makes control inputs according to what he feels in his seat and sees with his eyes through the windscreen - all tempered by his training and experience. In retrospect it's easy to say he should have done X or Y because the gust caught him, but for him, the gust had not arrived yet. From the video there is no way of telling such things the aircrafts position relative to the runway centreline.

Just like any retrospective analysis, it is normal to find fault, but like all retrospective analysis, they need to be in possession of ALL the facts, not just a quick video clip.

There are so many reasons to sit back and say -- shitty weather - job well done. No-one in TV, PPrune, etc can say otherwise unless the poster was in the other seat in the cockpit

[kamahele]

amazing stuff

[Fullstop]

I didn't see anything dangerous. I saw indications of turbulence and a strong, gusting cross wind but they handled it well.

Same here.I don't know what all the pants wetters are on about either.

[aleKK]

great job, well done!

i been in the same situation as a passenger in DC9 aircraft, in Copenaghen airport 25 years ago, in that time the pilot door was open and was possible to see and realize how we were swinging...SAS airlines pilot, tnx a lot!

[NeverSure]

Three things a layman might watch in the vid.

The vid starts with the plane pointing at us but flying to our right. He's crabbing into the crosswind to hold the center line of the runway all the way down. This is purely training and instinct not really different from riding a bicycle in that it becomes instinct.

Lower, and coming over the fence the air is quieter and he's settling in for his landing. As he enters what's called ground effect he hits same more hard gusts and instinctively operates controls against them to maintain that center line. He isn't thinking about the attitude of the plane but rather what it takes to center on that runway. That right wing never gets close to the ground.

As he flares for touchdown after that last big gust and wing maneuver, he rotates to level and then plants the landing gear. No long glide here in ground effect trying to grease it on. He wants the landing gear planted solidly to stop being part of that moving air mass. You can see him lower the nose more quickly than normal to stop the wings from flying and plant that airplane.

Again, I'd fly with him any day. Good job and not dangerous for that guy.

Cheers.

[shaurene]

For something like this I go to PPRuNe to see what the Pros (and gadabouts) have to say. The opinions varied, but here's one:

"Having flown the 77W in winds like that a few times myself and watching I can safely say some of that wing waggling would have been PIO. ( Pilot induced oscillations )

It's very easy to over control in those situations.

I think it looked a lot worse than it really was."

And another from a Netherlands poster:

"EXEPT [sic] winds from 320/40G50. Which was the case here. That is the worst wind direction you can throw at Schiphol. And once the airplane reaches "below treetop altitude" you can expect anything with that wind."

Apparently, this was the crew's second attempt having done a "go around" prior to this attempt.

All I can say is well done to the pilot.

[Andaman Al]

Great Landing under those conditions of cross wind and wind sheer over the terminal. Any landing you can walk away from is a successful landing

[hawthorne]

Umm I was scheduled to go Emirates and my wife changed to KLM for me yesterday. Was this after the news or just coincidence?

[fish fingers]

brilliant landing, touched down as smooth as possible

[fish fingers]

brilliant landing, touched down as smooth as possible