new 4-lane hwy?

[boomerangutang]

There's a road, Soi 5, which goes west from Ban Nam Lat toward the two Buddha Caves and beyond to Elephant Camp. Lots of work going on there in the past 9 days. One authority on the job told me they're planning a 4 lane hwy. Is it in lieu of the so-called 'rim road' which was planned to go a similar west-side route, a Km north - or are they still planning the rim road hwy? One or both of those will need 4-lane bridges and will have to traverse marshy terrain.

Currently, I think neither are needed for C.Rai. There's already the Rim Road going around the east side of town, with its own 4-lane bridge, and skirting the airport. That one is ok, tho it should have a connection on its north side - to the main N/S hwy going parallel to its west. Maybe that's already been drawn up.

In contrast, the western side, west of Ban Nam Lat has very little traffic. Less cars in a day, than the main hwy gets in 2 minutes. Even just 2 lanes would be sparse traffic, but I know, this is Thailand, and planning is often dough-headed.

Another part of the western side project is grossly widening a water ditch. Like nearly all ditches in Thailand, it has no slope along its length. Indeed part of it tries to get water to flow slightly uphill. It looks like it will be concrete walled and, like the proposed 4-lane hwy, will be lots of concrete and expense for little practical result. The watershed for the ditch is sparse, about 50 rai. It will wind up being a long muddy holding provision for a moderate amount of water.

There's a personal angle to this story, involving my Boomerang Park, and machines tearing down electric lines & poles with earth-moving equip., tearing down large beautiful trees, leaving live 220 volt wires on the wet ground, etc. but I'll leave those stories for the feature film.

[villagefarang]

Some may see it as dough-headed, unneeded and impractical but I am guessing it will get plenty of use when finished.

The other ring road is indeed being extended both North and South.

[villagefarang]

So how do the rest of you feel about roads being developed in and around Chiang Rai? I think it is a good idea and if anything they maybe a bit behind the curve. By the time these roads are finished there is a good chance they won’t be able to deal with the increased demand of the time.

I have lived in Thailand since the 70s and I am not the least bit nostalgic about the past. I have no desire to go backward in time and look forward to future developments in Chiang Rai.

Be brave and have an opinion.

Edited July 28, 2015 by villagefarang

[Ace of Pop]

Be nice if they extended its 4 lanes through the middle of Nakhasawan or whatever they call that flooded,traffic light, tiny bridged ridden dump. It ruins a nice run to BKK.

[sceadugenga]

I suppose that if we accept the better shops and restaurants then roads are part of the package.

[RichCor]

I suppose that if we accept the better shops and restaurants then roads are part of the package.

hopefully those shops and restaurants comes with actual parking areas

and working ingress/egress

[Bardeh]

So how do the rest of you feel about roads being developed in and around Chiang Rai? I think it is a good idea and if anything they maybe a bit behind the curve. By the time these roads are finished there is a good chance they won’t be able to deal with the increased demand of the time.

I have lived in Thailand since the 70s and I am not the least bit nostalgic about the past. I have no desire to go backward in time and look forward to future developments in Chiang Rai.

Be brave and have an opinion.

It's better they get it all done now, than wait until the roads are ridiculously congested to do it. If the projections of Chinese tourist numbers coming through Chiang Khong in the future turn out to be correct, they'll see plenty of use.

[boomerangutang]

If you read my OP you'll see that they are already planning a 'ring road' extension west of town - yet the road they want to turn in to a 4-laner would take a similar route, just a Km inside of it. In other words, two 4-lane highways going the same direction, roughly a Km apart. But here's the best part, there are currently very few vehicles wanting/needing to drive in that region. It's like buying a hundred buses to go on routes that very few people want to travel, - except with buses, you can re-route them to places where people want to go. Highways are static. They cost a lot of money, but they sit there, whether used or not.

[boomerangutang]

Update on the large ditch: ...which feeds in to a reservoir just north of Ban Nam Lat, NW of downtown Chiang Rai:

It now looks as though it's going to channel water out of the Mae Kok. With pumps? I don't know.

[villagefarang]

In the OP you seemed uncertain as to whether there would be one road or two. Now you sound sure that they are building two roads one kilometer apart in an area where few vehicles want or need to drive.

I really don’t see the problem. In my opinion there is a very good chance there is more to their plan than we are privy to. They could be putting in the infrastructure needed to facilitate planned development in that area. There could be a lot of reasons for what they are doing that are positive and not a conspiracy to waste money or upset anyone.

[RichCor]

<snip>

In my opinion there is a very good chance there is more to their plan than we are privy to. They could be putting in the infrastructure needed to facilitate planned development in that area. There could be a lot of reasons for what they are doing that are positive and not a conspiracy to waste money or upset anyone.

Yea, lots of reasons.

Maybe a new Space Launch Center.

Or a Dry Dock refurb facility.

Maybe a high-speed rail development supplies depot ...no, they wouldn't do that. Forget I mentioned that.

According to 'news sources', the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand (IEAT) is creating Special Economic Zones (.pdf) where it can direct develop of open or underdeveloped land areas, or lease land to others qualified to develop it. IEAT so far has selected areas in five provinces (Songkhla, Trat, Tak, Mukdahan and Sa Kaeo) with the potential to grow economically for the first phase. Chiang Rai province, which borders northern Laos and thus can connect directly to southern China, was put in the second phase that set for development early next year.

Many Chiang Rai developers have supposedly put their plans on hold after the government put the Chiang Rai area into their second phase to be promoted, delaying steps that need be completed.

According to the news sources, Chiang Rai is ripe for industrial estate development.

Swamp land, here they come.

[boomerangutang]

In the OP you seemed uncertain as to whether there would be one road or two. Now you sound sure that they are building two roads one kilometer apart in an area where few vehicles want or need to drive.

I really don’t see the problem. In my opinion there is a very good chance there is more to their plan than we are privy to. They could be putting in the infrastructure needed to facilitate planned development in that area. There could be a lot of reasons for what they are doing that are positive and not a conspiracy to waste money or upset anyone.

You're right to some degree. I am uncertain of their plans, because farang are the last people they're going to discuss future infrastructure plans with. Judging from the past 3 weeks on the road I mentioned, they start digging (at least 200 truckloads of soil thus far) and tearing down power lines/poles first, and then let everyone in the neighborhood try to figure out what they're doing later.

Plus, they change plans willy nilly. About a decade ago, I saw a plan in a municipal building for an underground metro system in Chiang Rai. One of the leading politicians here, on large posters of himself, depicts a shiny new train running in the background.

I admit, I don't circulate with others who know more (about the behind-the-scenes plans) than me, so that partly explains why I feel a bit bombed out once in awhile. What triggered it, was the recent tearing up the landscape (along the road) with no prior warning or mention. Just another factoid to add to the mix: Just yesterday, I bought 2 truckloads of rock to improve my little bridge going over the newly widened ditch. Literally within minutes of having the rock spread on the surface of the bridge (by a hired tractor), the pu yai ban (headman) walks up and humorlessly waves his index finger and tells me I need to replace the culvert buried deep at its foot. The culvert I put in 7 years ago was a bit too small diameter, he says. I didn't argue, but asked everyone where I could get ahold of larger culvert pieces. They all sincerely acted like they didn't know (isn't that the business of road contractors to know such things?), but already the giant backhoe was digging out my bridge, and told me I needed the bigger culvert put in (which I was required to pay for, even tho it's on public easement). On and On. Well I found culvert pieces in Bandu an hour later, paid for 'em (nearly Bt.10,000) and got them delivered. Supposed to put 'em in and rebuild the bridge this morning. What surprises are next? I don't know.

I don't so much mind infrastructure adjustments - it's the fact that the crews start tearing things up before they give any indication of their plans.

It would be like one morning you wake up to the sounds of heavy equipment in your backyard tearing out your septic system. After some pained inquiries, (with noise, dirt and language barriers) you find why they're doing it. ....then you're required to dish out $500 to build a new septic and you've got to bring the materials to the site within minutes, and none of the workers know where parts can be bought.

[sidelines]

I drive past Boomerang Park on the "scenic route" home about twice a month and can testify that there is little to no traffic on a normal day. In the six kilometre stretch of road, there are times when I don't spot another car or bike. On that evidence alone there is absolutely no need for a four lane highway if that, indeed, is what is planned. I, like the OP, am not privy to the plans but concur with him that a highway in that area is not required.

There is a condo development in the area but doubt the increase in traffic that will generate justifies a new road.

[pomchop]

One of the most common complaints I hear in places like Pattaya and Phuket is that they build more and more condos and housing and shops but don't build the infrastructure to go with it.

Maybe CR is building the infrastructure figuring that the condos and housing and commercial establishments will be along soon.

Building a big new road no doubt will result in some people deciding to live in perhaps a new area as they are tired of living in areas with too much traffic?

They have sure built a ton of new roads out near the airport and there sure seem to be a lot of new residential and commercial growth out that way.

But I for one wouldn't pretend to understand the who how or whys of what Thai govt officials may decide to do.

Edited July 30, 2015 by pomchop

[villagefarang]

If one only builds for the needs of yesterday you will always be behind the curve. Looking backwards one may not see the requirement of a new road but looking to the future there very well may be a need.

[duanebigsby]

At the beginning of rainy season, the water ditches get dredged every year so no surprise.

The road past boomerang is awful and hardly drivable. Doesn't need 4 lanes but maybe they are thinking it will be a shorter trip for the tour buses to Ruammit, instead of going the Mae Yao way.

The bypass road by the airport will be the new super hiway to China over the friendship bridge at Chiang Khong.

[SOTIRIOS]

....the norht is expected to have a booming economy....

...so what is the problem with building a 4-lane highway....???

[duanebigsby]

....the norht is expected to have a booming economy....

...so what is the problem with building a 4-lane highway....???

OP is questioning the need in that area as it leads to a village of about 4000 people and no other communities around it or beyond..

[mango66]

If the capital with 12 mill inhabitants have most highwas with 2 and 3 lines,

why CR should not have 3 and 4 ??

who order this and who will pay for this ?

Will come the money from Dubai or from rice subsidition ?

[boomerangutang]

....the norht is expected to have a booming economy....

...so what is the problem with building a 4-lane highway....???

OP is questioning the need in that area as it leads to a village of about 4000 people and no other communities around it or beyond..

....and more. A four lane hwy close-by and nearly parallel to another 4-lane hwy. It's rather like the Chinese propensity for building giant cities with 20 story apartment complexes from horizon to horizon - and then finding the occupancy rate is about 4% ten years later - and that's higher than the occupancy rates of the hundreds of shop spaces on the ground floors.

[gerrytraveller]

Unknown to most of us including me until this afternoon when i was sitting in a restaurant in Muang Sing northern Laos ... a new friendship bridge is about to open up ...4 months..between Burma and Xieng Kok near here. This will open another China route.

Chiang Rai..Mai Sae...kentung..burma....muang sing..laos..and china ..15km away..

maybe this is connected in some way to more roads in Chuang Rai area.

[pomchop]

I just wish they would upgrade the road that cuts from downtown over to the superhighway and crosses the highway headed to Wiang Chai near Big C...it has become a huge bottleneck with frequent traffic jams.

A traffic light at the back entrance to Central also seems to be desperately needed. Havent' been in CR for a while so maybe they have done this already??

I guess we all have our wish list for new infrastructure depending on where we live and drive.

[umbanda]

To the foreigner looking to the past, and wanting to keep Chiang Rai peaceful and picturesque...any new road, any new development, never will be welcome. but.....many locals are looking for new sources of income and grow. With all the new Thailand's project with China, most new projects in the country are related to logistics and foreign investments,.and the Chiang Rai, Phayao, Lampang corridor to BK is the logic route for China products, and source of land for industrial projects. Probably, Chinese investors are behind many new infraestructure projects in these areas.

[boomerangutang]

Unknown to most of us including me until this afternoon when i was sitting in a restaurant in Muang Sing northern Laos ... a new friendship bridge is about to open up ...4 months..between Burma and Xieng Kok near here. This will open another China route.

Chiang Rai..Mai Sae...kentung..burma....muang sing..laos..and china ..15km away..

maybe this is connected in some way to more roads in Chuang Rai area.

You'd think our sage leaders could come up with another name other than 'friendship' (every bridge across the Mekong is called 'Friendship'). But let's not ask too much of their mental capacities. Yes, I've known about the China to Thailand route going through central Shan State Burma, for awhile. It will be hilly - and scenic, with many miles of no houses/villages, just natural terrain. A nice change from Thailand. But when the Chinese see all those undeveloped hills, they'll start cranking up their cement hauling trucks and land-leveling machines. They don't want to see barren hills, they want to see giant apartment complexes everywhere. China mixes 1/3 of all concrete worldwide.

I just wish they would upgrade the road that cuts from downtown over to the superhighway and crosses the highway headed to Wiang Chai near Big C...it has become a huge bottleneck with frequent traffic jams.

A traffic light at the back entrance to Central also seems to be desperately needed. Havent' been in CR for a while so maybe they have done this already??

I guess we all have our wish list for new infrastructure depending on where we live and drive.

The turn-off to the Wiang Chai hwy from the super hwy (going north, then east) can be problematic. Cars don't stop at a red light, turning right, so often particularly in late afternoons, there's gridlock there. As for Big C, if a motorbike exits their parking area, it can't go north on the hwy, unless it weaves around 2 or 3 km of back streets.

To the foreigner looking to the past, and wanting to keep Chiang Rai peaceful and picturesque...any new road, any new development, never will be welcome. but.....many locals are looking for new sources of income and grow. With all the new Thailand's project with China, most new projects in the country are related to logistics and foreign investments,.and the Chiang Rai, Phayao, Lampang corridor to BK is the logic route for China products, and source of land for industrial projects. Probably, Chinese investors are behind many new infraestructure projects in these areas.

I acknowledge C.Rai has grown and will continue to grow exponentially. I first visited here 35 yrs ago. Some of the growth is ok with me, some not, but it's life itself - just got a find a way to roll with it, and don't forget to smell the flowers once in awhile.

[pomchop]

just got a find a way to roll with it, and don't forget to smell the flowers once in awhile.

Some very good words of wisdom that many seem too often to forget.....how many times in our lives do we get all upset over something which is completely forgotten about in a few hours or days...too often.

I have realized that especially in Thailand that it is often best when something is bugging me to just LET IT GO...or as the Thais say constantly....Mai bpen rai

[my friend I]

Unknown to most of us including me until this afternoon when i was sitting in a restaurant in Muang Sing northern Laos ... a new friendship bridge is about to open up ...4 months..between Burma and Xieng Kok near here. This will open another China route.

Chiang Rai..Mai Sae...kentung..burma....muang sing..laos..and china ..15km away..

maybe this is connected in some way to more roads in Chuang Rai area.

This was opened officially recently.

[my friend I]

http://www.enticcompany.com/chiangrai_web/web/html/map.html

[villagefarang]

The same argument the OP is making could have been used for the ring-road to the east of town, I suppose. Something like, no one drives through the rice fields now so why build a road. I thought ring roads were built to divert traffic away from congested highways and the center of town, not to reach small villages or deal with localized traffic.

Secondarily they provide an area for growth as we are seeing on the sections of ring-road which have been completed to the east. Government offices, schools, housing and businesses have sprung up along its path, and the full road isn’t even finished yet.

I really get tired of Thais being putdown and constantly criticized for not producing some idealized version of California. Given what they have to work with I think they are doing a pretty good job. I certainly wouldn’t expect government officials to come search me out and ask my permission to do whatever they have planned, either.

[boomerangutang]

The same argument the OP is making could have been used for the ring-road to the east of town, I suppose. Something like, no one drives through the rice fields now so why build a road. <snipped for brevity>

I've mentioned the rim road east of town, in this topic and in prior topics. I don't have a problem with the one east of town. It had a two lane bridge which was doubled in size to 4 lanes to accommodate it. The OP is about one or two 4 lane hwys which appear to be planned for west of town. VF, please don't create words which I might have said ("same argument the OP is making could have been used....") and then comment upon the made-up version. It's called 'straw-man' argument.

If you want to comment on what I wrote, that's fine.

[RichCor]

I really get tired of Thais being putdown and constantly criticized for not producing some idealized version of California. Given what they have to work with I think they are doing a pretty good job. I certainly wouldn’t expect government officials to come search me out and ask my permission to do whatever they have planned, either.

Though it would be nice if Thailand, or specifically Chiang Rai province, adopted Sustainable Urban Planning

I happen to like the idea of sidewalks, parking, clean water, public open space, youth centers, lower vehicle death rates and zoning that keeps industrial operations buffered/separate from commercial and residential areas.

Chaotic is interesting, but it's not long-term viable.