Back Pain - what next?

[jimmiejackson]

Hi all,

I have back pain which most of the time results in pain in my upper right chest/back (it shifts around) as well as on and off pelvic pain.

There is a vertebrae in my neck on the right side that when it's pushed, I can feel the pain go all the way down to where it hurts in my chest/back, so that seems to be the source of the pain there.

An X Ray a while back revealed I have scoliosis, so it probably originates from my pelvis being misaligned.

Anyway...

I have spent a small fortune on Chiropractors, acupressure, cupping therapy, accupuncture (in Bangkok)....

All it ever does it relieve the problem temporarily, sometimes longer than others but never more than a week or so.

The best results I've gotten is from the Chiros but I'm clued up enough to know that a generic "rack and crack" and some electro/magnetic/laser/ultrasound muscle therapy isn't going to do any long-term good. Plus the prices are just crazy for what you get.

I was considering going to see an Osteopath but I wonder if that will just be more quackery?

There's no point these people giving me generic nutritional or exercise advice, I work in that space and to be honest, I've never received any advice that is more up to date than the Zeitgeist in "alternative health" in the 90s.

I don't mind to spend money to get it fixed ONCE AND FOR ALL but I can't keep spending 2000 Baht a pop for little adjustments for temporary relief.

I'm in Bangkok (upper Sukhumvit to be precise) and any advice would be very welcome!

[alfalfa19]

my advice might be useless to you, but in the last 7 years, i have been doing yoga a lot, and it has really alleviated my lower back pain. i remember times 8 or 10 years ago when i could not even put on my shoes much less tie them, because of agony caused by my back. evidently the nearly constant stretching of the hamstrings in many yoga poses relieves the pull on one's back.

[Khun Paul]

backs are tricky things, I had a disc removed some 30od years ago, no further probs, but backs are tricky, suggest full x-ray scan of said back, discussion with orthopedic surgeon discuss options including non-operative route. Whatever you do it will be either painful and /or expensive but worth while providing it will alleviate the problem long-term. people who push and crack your bones with NO x-rays can cause more problems as in truth they have absolutely NO IDEA what is wrong as they cannot see below the skin.

I took the surgical route as all other options had been exhausted , expensive , yes worth it certainly !

[Hayduke]

Consider consulting a back specialist and doing an MRI. This would probably give you a more precise idea of your condition. Pinpointing the problem will help determine the proper treatment.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hayduke

[NickJ]

FYI....An Osteopath or DO in the USA is able to perform any modern surgery to the spine if he is a qualified orthopaedist. Also able to prescribe . Osteopathy is not Chiropractic.

[jerome2]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional im better since i put some kind of low back rest they sell in car appliance shop ...isuzu has very bad seat

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

Edited August 6, 2015 by jerome2

[weegee]

backs are tricky things, I had a disc removed some 30od years ago, no further probs, but backs are tricky, suggest full x-ray scan of said back, discussion with orthopedic surgeon discuss options including non-operative route. Whatever you do it will be either painful and /or expensive but worth while providing it will alleviate the problem long-term. people who push and crack your bones with NO x-rays can cause more problems as in truth they have absolutely NO IDEA what is wrong as they cannot see below the skin.

I took the surgical route as all other options had been exhausted , expensive , yes worth it certainly !

I did the same years ago....Probably on of the best decisions I ever made. That is the way to go, but i would be worried about doing it in Thailand though.

OP...If you decide on surgery, return home to do it. Play it safe, dont gamble on getting the job done properly here in Thailand...

[technologybytes]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

[delgarcon]

It's unlikely that any of us on here will have exactly the same problem as you, so it's difficult to advise. I, personally have been suffering from osteoarthritis in my neck and shoulders for several years, but fortunately have found that a daily swim relieves most of the pain. Good luck with whatever you try.

[fvw53]

Consider consulting a back specialist and doing an MRI. This would probably give you a more precise idea of your condition. Pinpointing the problem will help determine the proper treatment.

I agree with Hayduke : I suffer since 6 years from back pain - with ups and downs - but I know exactly the cause after an MRI was taken in my home country under supervision of a qualified back specialist. As I am more than 70 years old I have decided that I will live with it rather than undergo an operation which is not always a good solution. My doctor advised me to move more : swimming or bicycle because my "sitting live in a front of a computer" is not what is the right thing for a back bone.

[Vipercatcher]

I was a paramedic for 32 years. Ten years in I prolapsed my L4-5 disc. with subsequent severe sciatica down left leg.I was referred to an orthopedic surgeon. He wanted to do an L4-5 fusion. Being in and out of hospitals all the time for my job, I asked all and sundry, (nursing staff etc.) for advice. Almost to a man/woman I was advised to see a nuero-surgeon for a laminectomy, as fusions had a 40 percent failure rate! Nuero-surgeon offered 85 percent that I would be pain free. I went with the nuero-surgeon and have been pretty much pain free. This was in 1989, 26 years ago, but I would follow the same path, if needs be again!

[AlQaholic]

If this is late onset scoliosis one crucial thing is to develop the back muscles which supports the spine, talk to a specialist.

[kingstonkid]

OP

I had back pain for 30+ severe enough to need morphine twice a day before i came to Thailand. Went to see a specialist at BNH and in 3 hours found out for the first time what was wrong with my back and what could be done to correct it. I had the reccommended surgery. That was 2010 I have been pain free since then and can not recommended enough getting thee to a top tier hospital and paying the coin to get x-rays and MRI viewed by spinal specialists.

As a side note when I found out what he wanted to do to me I emailed my Canadian doctor who told me that the diagnosis was correct and that they knew that but no one wanted to touch around the spine.

[catman20]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

read it again !!!!!! I think he's saying one side of his hip is higher than the other side so he made one sole of his shoe higher......job done.

[charliebadenhop]

I live in Chiang Rai, but I could likely help you. I have been helping people with such conditions for more than 30 years now.

Come to CR for a few days, and pay me nothing if you get no results.

I spent 30 years in Japan and my work is a mix of Japanese techniques along with various Western forms of bodywork.

PM me if you have interest.

Charlie

[Phaeton]

Sounds like some good ideas already. Just wanted to throw this book idea out there. Perhaps related to what Charlie might suggest:

The Roll Model: A Step-by-Step Guide to Erase Pain, Improve Mobility, and Live Better in Your Body

I have downloaded the kindle version, but don't allow myself to read these books until I finish the one I'm currently reading...so...can't tell you if it is great or not. The reviews are very positive.

A life time of various abuses of my body mean that one hip doesn't feel great etc. So looking to see about ideas and alternatives.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Phaeton

[smokie36]

I was a paramedic for 32 years. Ten years in I prolapsed my L4-5 disc. with subsequent severe sciatica down left leg.I was referred to an orthopedic surgeon. He wanted to do an L4-5 fusion. Being in and out of hospitals all the time for my job, I asked all and sundry, (nursing staff etc.) for advice. Almost to a man/woman I was advised to see a nuero-surgeon for a laminectomy, as fusions had a 40 percent failure rate! Nuero-surgeon offered 85 percent that I would be pain free. I went with the nuero-surgeon and have been pretty much pain free. This was in 1989, 26 years ago, but I would follow the same path, if needs be again!

I'd definitely be looking for a neurosurgeon rather than an orthopaedic one for back issues....its really their speciality!

That being said surgery should be the last option in a lot of cases.

[chill]

I had some terrible back pain, really on the shoulder and down the arm.

I was told that it was a trapped nerve or a nerve pressed against a bone in the neck. I tried all sorts of things, accupunture, massage, osteopaths, sacral head realignment, physiotherapy etc... until one day i realised that I had my computer monitor on my right side and kept swiveling my head to that side which was causing the problem. So anything such as your desk facing away from your TV might result in you continually twisting your head around to watch the TV. Try to get everything lined up in front of you that you need to look at or ensure you turn to face the TV when you watch it. This is basically along the same lines as the suggestion to raise the sole of one shoe in one leg which appears shorter because of a misaligned hip which i thought made sense as well. I had a friend in the States who was told that he had to have a back operation to cure his back pain and I told him my story and he realised that he was constantly twisting his neck to look at something. It was the cause of his problem as well so he managed to cure himself. It may well be that your pain is caused by some repetitive movemnet such as walking unevenly or twisting your neck.

[johnds99]

I was having a lot of pain standing and walking. All the doctors that I consulted suggested shots and pain killers and when they produced little help then suggested back surgery. The last time I was in the states, 2 months ago, I was treated for a urinary tract infection, and after getting rid of that my back pain disappeared. Go figure.

[misterphil]

Get yourself an inversion table. These work wonders for your back.

Also do some back strengthening excersizes such as lat pull downs, bent over rows, deadlifts etc.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=inversion+table&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI8azQgsWTxwIVxpCOCh0ahAQm&biw=1366&bih=643#imgrc=_

[akentryan]

76 years old with one disk completely gone and another almost there. No surgery because of age and heart problems. Can't even take an MRI because of my Pacemaker. My problems stem from a 5 cm short leg as a result of falling and bending an IM nail that was in my fractured femur. My Thai Orthopaedic doctor says the neck pain as you described is also the result of the short leg. When I walk I tilt my head so that my eyes are level, when I sit or lie down resuming a normal head position causes the pain. I am in pain except when I am substantially polluted with Vodka and pain pills. Live each day like its your last - one of them will be.

[Laza 45]

my advice might be useless to you, but in the last 7 years, i have been doing yoga a lot, and it has really alleviated my lower back pain. i remember times 8 or 10 years ago when i could not even put on my shoes much less tie them, because of agony caused by my back. evidently the nearly constant stretching of the hamstrings in many yoga poses relieves the pull on one's back.

good advice.. I think chiros and osteopaths are expensive & useless.. a good oil massage may help.. gentle yoga may help to realign your spine..

[sammygood]

might be kidney stones or a galblatter problem, it tends to go back & forth

you can always consult a back specialist & they might cut you open from right to left and do a spine fusion and put some bolts & pins into you

[The Deerhunter]

I have had a dodgy back for 50 years. To many people Chiros & Osteos are the same, but they are not. Mind you, some schools of Chiropractic turn out people who should be called osteopaths. As a generalization, Chiropractors provide are more robust (violent???) adjustment and osteopaths (again as a generalization)tend to perform rotational (gentler?) adjustments. I have had adjustments from Chiropractors that were frankly frighteningly violent and I would never return. To be honest you sound to me like you need a good osteopath but I do not know wher to find one in L.O.S. I suggest you look at this website. The moderator Steve Lockhart offers free books & free self help advice for people who cannot get to one of his practitioners. To the best of my knowledge there are none actively practicing in Thailand. The advice he offers is good, I can absolutely say from personal experience. http://www.myotherapy.com.au/ He also sells inverters like mrphil posted about. You could PM me if you want to know more about myotherapy/SLM than is on the website.

[atyclb]

history of accident/trauma?

has the pain worsened in intensity, duration, or frequency?

any weakness in arm/leg?

scoliosis can put asymmetric strain on the hard and soft tissues of the spine. long term can pull and lead to angular misalignment of spine.

the reproducible pain described is consistent with radiculopathy and suggests some problem at the level of the spine you press where the nerves exit

a plain xray will see bone abnormalities such as compression fracture, misalignment of vertebrae, degenerative disease (arthritis)

the way to see the state of nerves and cartilage (soft tissue) is an mr.

surgery is usually reserved as the last option short of muscle weakness or sx of serious decompensation or perhaps intractable pain. conservative management better unless all fails.

be aware theres no lack of surgeons that like to operate as that generates income

second and third opinions advisable if surgery is suggested. perhaps sharing mr with consultant in your home country

additionally if surgery is advised research procedures available towards the same end sometimes more advanced procedures are not done by every surgeon.

example; one bone surgeon told me he needs to cut open my knee due to a torn ligament and cartilage. it turns out he was not trained in endoscopic procedures that use small cuts and have much less pain and recovery time.

PS theres a lot of crossover between ortho and neurosurgery when it comes to the spine. some orthos have lots of spine experience and some wont touch it. some neurosurgeons dont do many spines. so the trick is figuring out what the precise problem is then finding someone with significant experience fixing it.

Edited August 6, 2015 by atyclb

[uty6543]

After an operation for a slipped disk about 12 years ago I get the odd problem from time to time. I have seen a chiropractor in Si sa kit one visit and pain free again and for my last problem I went and had Thai massage at my local government hospital for a massage once a week for 5 weeks and now pain free again. 1500 baht. I chose a government hospital as I hoped they have had better training than staff at a massage shop. Good luck I hope you find long term pain relief soon.

For me I do not like private hospitals in Thailand as all they want is you th keep on coming back and spending more of your money with them. IMO Government hospitals want to cure you so you don't come back giving them more work.

Big money does not always mean best treatment.

[fred Kubasa]

You have a computer and should google up back exercises of which there are at least 100. I went thru everything you did, plus acupuncture plus about 120,000 B to find that back Doctors haven't a clue unless you have an unsightly hole, bleeding profusely, as to what to do but run expensive tests and prescribe pain killers.Certain exercises, work. You must try different ones until you find a set that actually make you feel better. One simple one is, in the shower, put your hands in the air, above your head, with hot water on back and slowly, day by day bring hands down. bend slightly forward until, one day, sooner than you think, you will be touching your toes ! Good luck from someone who previously had to crawl to the bathroom.

[Pdavies99]

I see most replies are talking about lower back pain and ways to improve your problems..

Generally upper / neck pain is posture or trapped nerves or an injury in the past?

With this in mind I feel you should be looking at your posture and your sleeping position and neck support, ie correct pillows etc, in addition a neck brace for some time might be recommended. As said though Yoga may help for posture etc.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Pdavies99

[Issangeorge]

Years ago, my dad had back pain, I guess it was his sciatic since it affected his walking. He was 80 and they wanted to do surgery, we discouraged him, he went to a osteopath, he did three treatments, and my dad was as good as new, lived to 90 with no more problems.

[jerome2]

I had backpain for 25 years im a professional

..last year i put my 2 thumbs on my hip bones and ... shit its not the same high...put 1 cm on my left shoe ....much better.. not perfect but much better

I really tried to understand this, but I just cannot. Man, what on earth are you talking about.

read it again !!!!!! I think he's saying one side of his hip is higher than the other side so he made one sole of his shoe higher......job done.