Concerns over coup 'will only give China more room to woo Thailand'

[yuv06]

You said there were Chinese planes on Thai soil. Very different from joint exercises......there are American planes permanently coming in and out of U Tapao....

I said they were Chinese fighter pilots in Thailand and I don't think America has permanent planes stationed at U-Tapao they come and go

The US airforce use it as a distribution hub and to manage searches for lost soldiers in Vietnam and Cambodia. They have a permanent presence.

Than that might be an agreement but other than that the USA must ask permission like when they set up distribution aid for Nepal they had to request the Thai government for permission

[Thai at Heart]

You said there were Chinese planes on Thai soil. Very different from joint exercises......there are American planes permanently coming in and out of U Tapao....

I said they were Chinese fighter pilots in Thailand and I don't think America has permanent planes stationed at U-Tapao they come and go

The US airforce use it as a distribution hub and to manage searches for lost soldiers in Vietnam and Cambodia. They have a permanent presence.

Than that might be an agreement but other than that the USA must ask permission like when they set up distribution aid for Nepal they had to request the Thai government for permission

Of course it is. I don't get your point. As much as this period of cooling off is happening, the connections are very long lived and extensive. Everyone has to ask permission to bring their planes to Thailand. Do you think they just pitch up unannounced.

Fact is though, the US airforce has a permanent presence in U Tapao. The CIA has a massive permanent presence in the embassy and around the various bases in the country. The used Thailand for interrogations and renditions.

They have a permenant listening and reconnaissance post certainly in the north east, and there are cia blokes working permanently with the Thai forces monitoring problems in Myanmar.

[yuv06]

Of course it is. I don't get your point. As much as this period of cooling off is happening, the connections are very long lived and extensive. Everyone has to ask permission to bring their planes to Thailand. Do you think they just pitch up unannounced.

Fact is though, the US airforce has a permanent presence in U Tapao. The CIA has a massive permanent presence in the embassy and around the various bases in the country. The used Thailand for interrogations and renditions.

They have a permenant listening and reconnaissance post certainly in the north east, and there are cia blokes working permanently with the Thai forces monitoring problems in Myanmar.

Then that is good to hear

[boomerangutang]

Who said China is wooing Thailand. Seems Thailand is chasing China.

Picture this, two soi dogs, male and female. One is in heat.

It's not like China are begging them to buy their subs.

There are ways to seal deals without begging.

Also, China is facing armed trouble in and around the Philippine islands off Luzon's west coast.

Having a friend in Thailand, for China, is good for them, but having a friend with Chinese subs is even better, from the Chinese view. Friends with weapons become special friends with special status.

Note, maybe this borders on sci-fi, but I wonder if makers of advanced weapons build in a secret small self-destruct provision. In a sub, it could be as simple as a small (half inch?) flat valve hidden in the hull with an actuator - able to be opened wirelessly by a Chinese operator.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US has such self-destruct provisions on its drones and other sophisticated weapons/surveillance devices.

Edited August 7, 2015 by boomerangutang

[Thai at Heart]

Who said China is wooing Thailand. Seems Thailand is chasing China.

Picture this, two soi dogs, male and female. One is in heat.

It's not like China are begging them to buy their subs.

There are ways to seal deals without begging.

Also, China is facing armed trouble in and around the Philippine islands of Lozon's west coast.

Having a friend in Thailand, for China, is good for them, but having a friend with Chinese subs is even better, from the Chinese view. Friends with weapons become special friends with special status.

Note, maybe this borders on sci-fi, but I wonder if makers of advanced weapons build in a secret small self-destruct provision. In a sub, it could be as simple as a small (half inch?) flat valve hidden in the hull with an actuator - abled to be opened wirelessly by a Chinese operator.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US has such self-destruct provisions on its drones and other sophisticated weapons/surveillance devices.

The issue was the idea that China is wooing Thailand. Thailand is at the moment saying come and get me.....

[yuv06]

Who said China is wooing Thailand. Seems Thailand is chasing China.

Picture this, two soi dogs, male and female. One is in heat.

It's not like China are begging them to buy their subs.

There are ways to seal deals without begging.

Also, China is facing armed trouble in and around the Philippine islands of Lozon's west coast.

Having a friend in Thailand, for China, is good for them, but having a friend with Chinese subs is even better, from the Chinese view. Friends with weapons become special friends with special status.

Note, maybe this borders on sci-fi, but I wonder if makers of advanced weapons build in a secret small self-destruct provision. In a sub, it could be as simple as a small (half inch?) flat valve hidden in the hull with an actuator - abled to be opened wirelessly by a Chinese operator.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US has such self-destruct provisions on its drones and other sophisticated weapons/surveillance devices.

The issue was the idea that China is wooing Thailand. Thailand is at the moment saying come and get me.....

I bet if Thailand get those subs the USA will be the first to ask can we take a peek

[LomSak27]

"U-Tap'ao has also been used, with the approval of the Thai government, to support US military operations in other countries, most recently the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The base was an integral part of the "air bridge" which the USAF created to rush troops and supplies to the war zones at the beginning of both of these conflicts.

That said, there are currently no US military personnel stationed at the base, which only employs Thai civilian contract labor to provide refueling and other ground handling tasks to US military aircraft transiting the facility. Presently over 100 US Air Force aircraft transit the Thai Navy owned and operated facility each month after receiving landing clearances and approvals from Thai officials.

The US government pays for all services rendered at the base to visiting US military aircraft, including landing fees. US military operations at the base are conducted under the umbrella of the USAF Air Mobility Command. U-Tapao is treated as a normal stopover (albeit one located in a sovereign foreign nation) providing standard aircraft refueling and ground handling support. There are currently no USAF maintenance or other support personnel or facilities stationed at U-Tapao.

Airy conspiracy theory
One of the concerns frequently mentioned in Thai press coverage is that the U-Tapao HA/DR initiative is actually cover for secret new US intelligence operations targeting China. If so, the suspected operations will be open to public scrutiny: U-Tapao now serves as a busy civilian airport, as well as a stopover for US military aircraft."

.......................................................

Interesting articles by old Seymour Hersh back in the early days of the invasion of Iraq. The US needed to use basis outside of the us for their renditions but Taksin (and later Abhisit) were judged to be not US friends so they used the one thing that they knew both would like MONEY. That is the reason that the US does not regard Thailand as an ally,. Yes they can do a few things here but only if the cash is right. Thailand is a de facto Chinese ally. A fact for 14 years

maybe the trilaterial commission is involved in all of this along with the Rothschild's and Sepp Blatter

Edited August 7, 2015 by LomSak27

[yuv06]

"U-Tap'ao has also been used, with the approval of the Thai government, to support US military operations in other countries, most recently the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The base was an integral part of the "air bridge" which the USAF created to rush troops and supplies to the war zones at the beginning of both of these conflicts.

That said, there are currently no US military personnel stationed at the base, which only employs Thai civilian contract labor to provide refueling and other ground handling tasks to US military aircraft transiting the facility. Presently over 100 US Air Force aircraft transit the Thai Navy owned and operated facility each month after receiving landing clearances and approvals from Thai officials.

The US government pays for all services rendered at the base to visiting US military aircraft, including landing fees. US military operations at the base are conducted under the umbrella of the USAF Air Mobility Command. U-Tapao is treated as a normal stopover (albeit one located in a sovereign foreign nation) providing standard aircraft refueling and ground handling support. There are currently no USAF maintenance or other support personnel or facilities stationed at U-Tapao.

Airy conspiracy theory

One of the concerns frequently mentioned in Thai press coverage is that the U-Tapao HA/DR initiative is actually cover for secret new US intelligence operations targeting China. If so, the suspected operations will be open to public scrutiny: U-Tapao now serves as a busy civilian airport, as well as a stopover for US military aircraft."

.......................................................

Interesting articles by old Seymour Hersh back in the early days of the invasion of Iraq. The US needed to use basis outside of the us for their renditions but Taksin (and later Abhisit) were judged to be not US friends so they used the one thing that they knew both would like MONEY. That is the reason that the US does not regard Thailand as an ally,. Yes they can do a few things here but only if the cash is right. Thailand is a de facto Chinese ally. A fact for 14 years

maybe the trilaterial commission is involved in all of this along with the Rothschild's and Sepp Blatter

Thanks for the info but I find it hard to believe about the cash part and anyway the USA weren't that great to Thailand during the 80s when Thailand bought US tanks under FSA the cost of the tanks I believe were sold to Thailand at USD1 million each which is bloody expensive even for today's money for second hand M60s as Thailand at that time were under threat by Vietnamese.

Edited August 7, 2015 by yuv06

[Tomtomtom69]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

Great analogy.

[tonbridgebrit]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

Great analogy.

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand. The USA is accepting that it is actually fighting a losing battle.

China is sending more and more tourists to Thailand, but America is not. And more and more of Thailand's exports and imports are with China. Does America really want to leave Thailand, and let Thailand be in China's sphere of influence ? Not really, the Americans have always wanted a foothold in South East Asia.

But the Americans are accepting China's growing influence. They can't do anything anyway. All that talk of the USA pulling out because Thailand has the junta in charge might actually be a red herring. The Americans, after all, have no problems with being friends with a whole load of countries that are not democratic.

[yuv06]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

Great analogy.

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand. The USA is accepting that it is actually fighting a losing battle.

China is sending more and more tourists to Thailand, but America is not. And more and more of Thailand's exports and imports are with China. Does America really want to leave Thailand, and let Thailand be in China's sphere of influence ? Not really, the Americans have always wanted a foothold in South East Asia.

But the Americans are accepting China's growing influence. They can't do anything anyway. All that talk of the USA pulling out because Thailand has the junta in charge might actually be a red herring. The Americans, after all, have no problems with being friends with a whole load of countries that are not democratic.

Interesting article today

It's our fault we have a friend like the US http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Its-our-fault-we-have-a-friend-like-the-US-30266164.html?

[boomerangutang]

The US's and to some extent, NATO are the type of friends who will tell you things you may not want to hear. Example: your house is stinky or you have bad breath. You don't like to hear it, but it's good that someone is pointing it out, because then you can (hopefully) do things to fix the problems.

China (and, to some extent, ASEAN) on the other hand, are the type of friend who will always smile and pat you on the back and tell you things are fine, no matter what, even if he walks in and catches you beating your wife, of if he opens your fridge and sees rotting produce and filth.

Which type of friend would you rather have?

[yuv06]

The US and NATO will tell you your breath smells nice even when it bad if you allow them to dictate you and follow in their footsteps in war mongering. They will enforce harsh punishment on you when you don't allow them to dictate you with fake democratic principals and teachings, and will invade you and kill your people for natural resources.

On the other hand China and Russia will not intervene if they see you are progressing towards improving further your country and will lend support to your country for it's development.

Which shall you chose?

[LomSak27]

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand

That is what the Nation Newspaper is desperately trying to get us to believe

article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now.

GinBoy2 had a great take on this and the TV credulous crowd

This is this bizarre delusion amongst many of the Thai elite, and a percentage of TVF, that actually believe that Thailand has some unusual strategic advantage to the US.

Well playmates, that ship sailed long time ago, during the Vietnam war and the age of falling domino's in Asia, Thailand was one of the 'useful' regimes in the region. Now I don't think anyone in the White House, State Dept, let alone anyone in Congress actually gives Thailand a second glance. Much more useful to be friends with the current 'useful' regimes; Singapore, Philippines, S. Korea, Japan and ironically..Vietnam. They are the folks who align against the twin threats of DPRK & China. Thailand was never regarded as a reliable fighting partner, military, 'too inwardly focused' to rely on to fight an external threat.

So poisoned it may be, but from the US side, I sincerely doubt anyone cares much.

Edited August 8, 2015 by LomSak27

[yuv06]

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand

That is what the Nation Newspaper is desperately trying to get us to believe

article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the the current regime is not seen as legitimate in US eyes and will remain that way. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now.

GinBoy2 had a much better of this specific delusion on another crazy Nation OP

This is this bizarre delusion amongst many of the Thai elite, and a percentage of TVF, that actually believe that Thailand has some unusual strategic advantage to the US.

Well playmates, that ship sailed long time ago, during the Vietnam war and the age of falling domino's in Asia, Thailand was one of the 'useful' regimes in the region. Now I don't think anyone in the White House, State Dept, let alone anyone in Congress actually gives Thailand a second glance. Much more useful to be friends with the current 'useful' regimes; Singapore, Philippines, S. Korea, Japan and ironically..Vietnam. They are the folks who align against the twin threats of DPRK & China. Thailand was never regarded as a reliable fighting partner, military, 'too inwardly focused' to rely on to fight an external threat.

So poisoned it may be, but from the US side, I sincerely doubt anyone cares much.

Thailand not a reliable fighting partner "cough" who sent troops to fight in Korea, Vietnam, Laos? Support US occupation of Iraq?

[LomSak27]

Your deflecting again Yuv, and not very well. This is what you need to be deflecting --- oops - dealing with

Article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now"

[chainarong]

You said there were Chinese planes on Thai soil. Very different from joint exercises......there are American planes permanently coming in and out of U Tapao....

I said they were Chinese fighter pilots in Thailand and I don't think America has permanent planes stationed at U-Tapao they come and go

The US airforce use it as a distribution hub and to manage searches for lost soldiers in Vietnam and Cambodia. They have a permanent presence.

They do at that and did you know one that who used to frequent very often was former President George Bush Snr.

[yuv06]

Your deflecting again Yuv, and not very well. This is what you need to be deflecting --- oops - dealing with

Article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now"

Not deflecting anything as I said before Thailand took the Chinese root since the 90s as it seems Chinese were more genuine to Thailand than the USA. BTW the US regime sees legitimacy in any regime with double standards as seen by sucking up to Saudi Arabia which definitely aren't no democratic government but it seems OK to US! So who gave the US the authority of the world to judge and interfere in other countries internal affairs?

Edited August 8, 2015 by yuv06

[tonbridgebrit]

The USA still wants Thailand to be in America's sphere of influence. The USA is not actually relying on Thai soldiers to fight whatever war alongside American soldiers. The Americans still want a foothold in South East Asia. They want a base on the South East Asian mainland, a place where they can launch military expeditions from. The US can't have soldiers in Vietnam, the Vietnamese fought a war against America, they certainly don't want to have American soldiers in their country.

But, I think, more important, America wants to prevent China from dominating Thailand. China is increasingly targetting other countries, and wants to put those countries into China's sphere of influence. The American foreign policy is actually based on a plan to continue having countries in the American sphere of influence, AND to prevent China from increasing it's presence in Asia. As in, there is a list of countries that are in the 'China Club', America is trying to prevent this list from getting bigger.

[Usernames]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

Great analogy.

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand. The USA is accepting that it is actually fighting a losing battle.

China is sending more and more tourists to Thailand, but America is not. And more and more of Thailand's exports and imports are with China. Does America really want to leave Thailand, and let Thailand be in China's sphere of influence ? Not really, the Americans have always wanted a foothold in South East Asia.

But the Americans are accepting China's growing influence. They can't do anything anyway. All that talk of the USA pulling out because Thailand has the junta in charge might actually be a red herring. The Americans, after all, have no problems with being friends with a whole load of countries that are not democratic.

The American "foothold" in SE Asia is going to be in Vietnam, which has always been more important than Thailand. Put that together with the strong Vietnamese influence inside the US, and you can see why Thailand is fading from its former position as America's lynchpin in the region. Meanwhile, Thailand had better hope that it is not booted from ASEAN for siding with that community's primary foe, China.

[Usernames]

Your deflecting again Yuv, and not very well. This is what you need to be deflecting --- oops - dealing with

Article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now"

Not deflecting anything as I said before Thailand took the Chinese root since the 90s as it seems Chinese were more genuine to Thailand than the USA. BTW the US regime sees legitimacy in any regime with double standards as seen by sucking up to Saudi Arabia which definitely aren't no democratic government but it seems OK to US! So who gave the US the authority of the world to judge and interfere in other countries internal affairs?

Look beyond Thailand. You haven't been paying attention. Obama has just dumped the Saudis for the Iranians.

[Thai at Heart]

The USA still wants Thailand to be in America's sphere of influence. The USA is not actually relying on Thai soldiers to fight whatever war alongside American soldiers. The Americans still want a foothold in South East Asia. They want a base on the South East Asian mainland, a place where they can launch military expeditions from. The US can't have soldiers in Vietnam, the Vietnamese fought a war against America, they certainly don't want to have American soldiers in their country.

But, I think, more important, America wants to prevent China from dominating Thailand. China is increasingly targetting other countries, and wants to put those countries into China's sphere of influence. The American foreign policy is actually based on a plan to continue having countries in the American sphere of influence, AND to prevent China from increasing it's presence in Asia. As in, there is a list of countries that are in the 'China Club', America is trying to prevent this list from getting bigger.

That is a very simple analysis. Just look at the families which have been given silent shareholdings or rights to produce America goods over the years. They are the definition of old money in Thailand. Quite who has told the current army govt to go off and cozy up to China god knows, and I really wouldn't be surprised if this new found love affair dies a fairly rapid death if and when elections happen.

To be perfectly honest, Thailand has always played this rather childish game of appearing to flirt with everyone at once. They have courted Japan, EU, USA and China at different times, and like to flatteringly say they are being wooed when actually they are acting like an old hoe. And they actually think that the rest of the world doesn't understand that this is what they do. They give it up for a little while to get something back, without realising they gave up a lot also.

[yuv06]

Your deflecting again Yuv, and not very well. This is what you need to be deflecting --- oops - dealing with

Article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now"

Not deflecting anything as I said before Thailand took the Chinese root since the 90s as it seems Chinese were more genuine to Thailand than the USA. BTW the US regime sees legitimacy in any regime with double standards as seen by sucking up to Saudi Arabia which definitely aren't no democratic government but it seems OK to US! So who gave the US the authority of the world to judge and interfere in other countries internal affairs?

Look beyond Thailand. You haven't been paying attention. Obama has just dumped the Saudis for the Iranians.

When did they dump Saudi? They are just of of ideas how to deal with Iran they threw everything at Iran but Iran is still around! They just want Iran in their corner to strengthen their world dominance. Thailand on the other are wiser and started to dump the USA since the 90s long before any of the current issues and I think it is rightly so you don't have to look far for the evidence Chinese ships in the 90s before that all ships were western. Chinese equipment and armor, artillery, etc. MBT now are Ukrainian including APC, fighter jets are Gripen and this issue is still in my mind why stop at 12 Gripen Thai AF squandered consists of 18 planes? Is it they are fed up with the US childish tactics and bullying such as delaying parts for the Thai Gripen because they were sour Thai AF did not buy F16

[Thai at Heart]

Your deflecting again Yuv, and not very well. This is what you need to be deflecting --- oops - dealing with

Article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now"

Not deflecting anything as I said before Thailand took the Chinese root since the 90s as it seems Chinese were more genuine to Thailand than the USA. BTW the US regime sees legitimacy in any regime with double standards as seen by sucking up to Saudi Arabia which definitely aren't no democratic government but it seems OK to US! So who gave the US the authority of the world to judge and interfere in other countries internal affairs?

Look beyond Thailand. You haven't been paying attention. Obama has just dumped the Saudis for the Iranians.

When did they dump Saudi? They are just of of ideas how to deal with Iran they threw everything at Iran but Iran is still around! They just want Iran in their corner to strengthen their world dominance. Thailand on the other are wiser and started to dump the USA since the 90s long before any of the current issues and I think it is rightly so you don't have to look far for the evidence Chinese ships in the 90s before that all ships were western. Chinese equipment and armor, artillery, etc. MBT now are Ukrainian including APC, fighter jets are Gripen and this issue is still in my mind why stop at 12 Gripen Thai AF squandered consists of 18 planes? Is it they are fed up with the US childish tactics and bullying such as delaying parts for the Thai Gripen because they were sour Thai AF did not buy F16

Buying bits of Chinese military hardware is not the same as politically separating yourself from the USA. Asean countries are allied with the USA, and several have problems with China. Thailand has an awful lot to lose by moving its military alliance too close to China at the expense of the USA. Myanmar is moving away from China forthwith, and running towards the EU and USA. Thailand risks leaving itself politically and militarily rather isolated if it keeps going on like this.

As I said earlier though, most of this so called move to China is fairly short term so far and will probably be unravelled once a civilan govt returns. At the end of the day, do the amaart and the military really want to give up all their perks afforded by being close to the USA? I very very much doubt it.

[yuv06]

Buying bits of Chinese military hardware is not the same as politically separating yourself from the USA. Asean countries are allied with the USA, and several have problems with China. Thailand has an awful lot to lose by moving its military alliance too close to China at the expense of the USA. Myanmar is moving away from China forthwith, and running towards the EU and USA. Thailand risks leaving itself politically and militarily rather isolated if it keeps going on like this.

As I said earlier though, most of this so called move to China is fairly short term so far and will probably be unravelled once a civilan govt returns. At the end of the day, do the amaart and the military really want to give up all their perks afforded by being close to the USA? I very very much doubt it.

How many governments since the 90s Thais are till staying their cause and even when it returns to civilian rule if won't affect anything that has been going on.

Myanmar maybe right or wrong but China is one of the largest investors and Myanmar depends on China for arms look at their hardware, AF Chinese jets + Mig29, Tanks Chinese + BTR, Ships Chinese.

I am proud that we have stayed our cause and not become a lapdog of the USA.

Edited August 8, 2015 by yuv06

[tonbridgebrit]

Well the best way to dump an "old girlfriend" is to tell her "it's not you, it's me", change the locks and then get her interested in someone else.

If I'm the U.S., it's time to dump this passive-aggressive, high-maintenance, borderline schizo GF and move on to more interesting partners, even some of whom I've already shagged before and broken up with.

Great analogy.

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand. The USA is accepting that it is actually fighting a losing battle.

China is sending more and more tourists to Thailand, but America is not. And more and more of Thailand's exports and imports are with China. Does America really want to leave Thailand, and let Thailand be in China's sphere of influence ? Not really, the Americans have always wanted a foothold in South East Asia.

But the Americans are accepting China's growing influence. They can't do anything anyway. All that talk of the USA pulling out because Thailand has the junta in charge might actually be a red herring. The Americans, after all, have no problems with being friends with a whole load of countries that are not democratic.

The American "foothold" in SE Asia is going to be in Vietnam, which has always been more important than Thailand. Put that together with the strong Vietnamese influence inside the US, and you can see why Thailand is fading from its former position as America's lynchpin in the region. Meanwhile, Thailand had better hope that it is not booted from ASEAN for siding with that community's primary foe, China.

In my opinion, I doubt Vietnam will become an American foothold in SE Asia. People tend to forget that Vietnam still has strong memories of the war against America. Okay, it is silly to make comments like "the Vietnamese fought a war to NOT have American soldiers on Vietnamese soil, why would they want American soldiers after winning the war" ? It's a silly comment, but still, it is partly true.

The strong Vietnamese influence inside the USA ? I'e heard of that, but I'm not totally sure exactly who and what that is. Supposedly, the Vietnamese in the USA are actually people who went to America after the Vietnam war, they're a bunch of Vietnamese who are hoping to topple and remove the present Vietnam government. They're hoping that a new pro-American government will come along and be the new guys in charge of Vietnam. And, oh look, the US government is backing the Vietnamese who are in the USA.

It's a bit like them Cubans in Florida, some of them hate the Cuban government, and America backs the Cubans who are in Florida.

"Meanwhile, Thailand had better hope that it is not booted from ASEAN for siding with that community's primary foe, China." ASEAN will never boot out Thailand ! Correct, some of the members of ASEAN don't like China, but they're too scared of China. Vietnam doesn't actually like China, but Vietnam is increasingly trading with China. China accounts for a lot of Vietnam's imports and exports. Vietnam has 'love and loath' relationship with China.

Do you know why ASEAN will never boot out Thailand ? Thailand sits in the middle of Cambodia, Laos and Burma. Any club involving Cambodia, Laos and Burma has got to have Thailand in it. Them three countries, when they trade, their road freight must go through Thailand. Thailand can easily frighten those three countries by threatening to pull out of ASEAN. That's Thailand ace card, sitting in between those three countries. And Vietnam and the Philipines have territory disputes with China, Thailand is not near enough to China to have such disputes over little islands. Another benefit for Thailand !

[yuv06]

In my opinion, I doubt Vietnam will become an American foothold in SE Asia. People tend to forget that Vietnam still has strong memories of the war against America. Okay, it is silly to make comments like "the Vietnamese fought a war to NOT have American soldiers on Vietnamese soil, why would they want American soldiers after winning the war" ? It's a silly comment, but still, it is partly true.

The strong Vietnamese influence inside the USA ? I'e heard of that, but I'm not totally sure exactly who and what that is. Supposedly, the Vietnamese in the USA are actually people who went to America after the Vietnam war, they're a bunch of Vietnamese who are hoping to topple and remove the present Vietnam government. They're hoping that a new pro-American government will come along and be the new guys in charge of Vietnam. And, oh look, the US government is backing the Vietnamese who are in the USA.

It's a bit like them Cubans in Florida, some of them hate the Cuban government, and America backs the Cubans who are in Florida.

"Meanwhile, Thailand had better hope that it is not booted from ASEAN for siding with that community's primary foe, China." ASEAN will never boot out Thailand ! Correct, some of the members of ASEAN don't like China, but they're too scared of China. Vietnam doesn't actually like China, but Vietnam is increasingly trading with China. China accounts for a lot of Vietnam's imports and exports. Vietnam has 'love and loath' relationship with China.

Do you know why ASEAN will never boot out Thailand ? Thailand sits in the middle of Cambodia, Laos and Burma. Any club involving Cambodia, Laos and Burma has got to have Thailand in it. Them three countries, when they trade, their road freight must go through Thailand. Thailand can easily frighten those three countries by threatening to pull out of ASEAN. That's Thailand ace card, sitting in between those three countries. And Vietnam and the Philipines have territory disputes with China, Thailand is not near enough to China to have such disputes over little islands. Another benefit for Thailand !

Love your analysis and rightly so if Vietnam get involved to much with USA there might be a covert op to try and change the Vietnamese government. Yes Thailand has the ace in it's strategic location and actually luckily our food industry is huge and all these surrounding countries depend a lot on Thai manufactured food products and also rely on Thai investments.

[yuv06]

Hope the Thai AF would buy SU30s and SU35s to replace their aging F16 fleet of 60 planes

Indian Air Force 'beats RAF 12-0 in training exercise' – using Russian-designed jets http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/indian-air-force-beats-raf-120-in-training-exercise--using-russiandesigned-jets-10444466.html

[Usernames]

Great analogy.

I think we should accept that the USA and China are competing against each other to influence Thailand. The USA is accepting that it is actually fighting a losing battle.

China is sending more and more tourists to Thailand, but America is not. And more and more of Thailand's exports and imports are with China. Does America really want to leave Thailand, and let Thailand be in China's sphere of influence ? Not really, the Americans have always wanted a foothold in South East Asia.

But the Americans are accepting China's growing influence. They can't do anything anyway. All that talk of the USA pulling out because Thailand has the junta in charge might actually be a red herring. The Americans, after all, have no problems with being friends with a whole load of countries that are not democratic.

The American "foothold" in SE Asia is going to be in Vietnam, which has always been more important than Thailand. Put that together with the strong Vietnamese influence inside the US, and you can see why Thailand is fading from its former position as America's lynchpin in the region. Meanwhile, Thailand had better hope that it is not booted from ASEAN for siding with that community's primary foe, China.

In my opinion, I doubt Vietnam will become an American foothold in SE Asia. People tend to forget that Vietnam still has strong memories of the war against America. Okay, it is silly to make comments like "the Vietnamese fought a war to NOT have American soldiers on Vietnamese soil, why would they want American soldiers after winning the war" ? It's a silly comment, but still, it is partly true.

The strong Vietnamese influence inside the USA ? I'e heard of that, but I'm not totally sure exactly who and what that is. Supposedly, the Vietnamese in the USA are actually people who went to America after the Vietnam war, they're a bunch of Vietnamese who are hoping to topple and remove the present Vietnam government. They're hoping that a new pro-American government will come along and be the new guys in charge of Vietnam. And, oh look, the US government is backing the Vietnamese who are in the USA.

It's a bit like them Cubans in Florida, some of them hate the Cuban government, and America backs the Cubans who are in Florida.

"Meanwhile, Thailand had better hope that it is not booted from ASEAN for siding with that community's primary foe, China." ASEAN will never boot out Thailand ! Correct, some of the members of ASEAN don't like China, but they're too scared of China. Vietnam doesn't actually like China, but Vietnam is increasingly trading with China. China accounts for a lot of Vietnam's imports and exports. Vietnam has 'love and loath' relationship with China.

Do you know why ASEAN will never boot out Thailand ? Thailand sits in the middle of Cambodia, Laos and Burma. Any club involving Cambodia, Laos and Burma has got to have Thailand in it. Them three countries, when they trade, their road freight must go through Thailand. Thailand can easily frighten those three countries by threatening to pull out of ASEAN. That's Thailand ace card, sitting in between those three countries. And Vietnam and the Philipines have territory disputes with China, Thailand is not near enough to China to have such disputes over little islands. Another benefit for Thailand !

You must not have any experience in the US. Flying back and forth between Thailand and the US, when I leave from DFW, I can tell you that 90 percent of the passengers are Vietnamese on the DFW-Seoul leg of the trip, going on to Vietnam. It is NOTHING like the Cubans in Miami. Trade and cultural ties are flourishing. And as for the Vietnamese community IN the US. Far from "hoping to topple and remove the present Vietnam government," they are doing everything they can to build connections, as this report from Saigon TV in the US shows you: http://saigon-tv.tv/ Try to get out of your Thai bubble more often.

[tonbridgebrit]

Your deflecting again Yuv, and not very well. This is what you need to be deflecting --- oops - dealing with

Article after article, day after day. The other way to look at this is the current regime is not seen as very legitimate in US eyes. The Nation, Monk guy Suthep, Yellows and The Monarchists desperately hunt around for something or the other to change this. The China Embrace seems the best one they got going right now"

Not deflecting anything as I said before Thailand took the Chinese root since the 90s as it seems Chinese were more genuine to Thailand than the USA. BTW the US regime sees legitimacy in any regime with double standards as seen by sucking up to Saudi Arabia which definitely aren't no democratic government but it seems OK to US! So who gave the US the authority of the world to judge and interfere in other countries internal affairs?

Look beyond Thailand. You haven't been paying attention. Obama has just dumped the Saudis for the Iranians.

Obama has dumped the Saudis for Iran ? Surely not ??

The Iranians, supposedly, were trying to build a nuke. The Americans didn't really want that, so the Americans have lifted sanctions against Iran, and Iran are now going to not build a nuclear bomb. Yes, do Iran a favour, let them sell there oil, and get them to not build a nuke.

It might be that Iran's nuke is another red herring. Iran's nukes will not be able to reach America or Europe. And Iran is not going to nuke Saudi Arabia, because Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. And Iran isn't going to nuke Israel either, nuking Israel will harm the Palestinians. The Americans have put up decades of partial sanctions against Iran, why ? Because Iran booted out the Shah back in the 1970s, and the Shah was, supposedly, a US puppet. The Shah was willing to export Iran's oil, and import American goods (military hardware, etc), he was (supposedly) put in charge of Iran after a CIA backed and orchestrated coup !

So, the USA has got something against Iran, because Iran booted out the Shah. That's why America has had partial sanctions against Iran for decades.