Retirement: Thailand vs Spain

[Anthony5]

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

Again,thanks.

Just looked up expatforum.com Portugal and seems many problems developing,rentals getting closed down because of stiff regulation/hefty fines.

you are sooooooo right 600 year built stuff,the sheer tranquility of it all,morning coffee ,smell of freshly baked bread,sounds naff I know but I miss it all so much

Believe it or not used to speak Spanish (long time ago) so all forgotten almost numo dos tres 'bout it excuse spelling.

Might have to be Spain as a starter,yes plenty of rentals there,then just take it slowly from there.

Thanks again

Just an edit. Lisbon is a expensive airport for destination,Barcelona far cheaper £414 return BKK to Barc via Oslo,booked few months ago. £25 single one way Barc >Lisbon,cheap train or bus down to Algarve

Why fly to Lisbon when you have to be in Algarve?

Faro is the airport of the Algarve.

[Jai Dee]

A couple of posts containing petty bickering have been removed from this thread.

[loppylugs1]

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

Again,thanks.

Just looked up expatforum.com Portugal and seems many problems developing,rentals getting closed down because of stiff regulation/hefty fines.

you are sooooooo right 600 year built stuff,the sheer tranquility of it all,morning coffee ,smell of freshly baked bread,sounds naff I know but I miss it all so much

Believe it or not used to speak Spanish (long time ago) so all forgotten almost numo dos tres 'bout it excuse spelling.

Might have to be Spain as a starter,yes plenty of rentals there,then just take it slowly from there.

Thanks again

Just an edit. Lisbon is a expensive airport for destination,Barcelona far cheaper £414 return BKK to Barc via Oslo,booked few months ago. £25 single one way Barc >Lisbon,cheap train or bus down to Algarve

Why fly to Lisbon when you have to be in Algarve?

Faro is the airport of the Algarve.

Yes and am flying into there from LPL,after 2 day visit to UK next month. Pricing for one,two excellent train service Barc to Seville and onward. Is a cheaper than cheap airline starting off on that route ,perhaps next time

BKK>.Oslo>Barc..2 day stopover....Barc>Man2 day stopover> LPL >Faro,pick up hire car .look around Lagos PT and surrounding area> train Lisbon> Lisbon> Barc> Copenhagen>BKK

Edited August 12, 2015 by loppylugs1

[eldragon]

I'm not sure if crime is lower in Spain. I feel pretty safe here, although I'm sure a certain percentage of would-be Thai criminals don't want to mess with foreigners. From what I remember of Spain though, there's a lot of sketchy people walking the streets and hanging about.

Also, people seem a wee bit happier here. And it's easier to meet girls if you're single. That being said, you'll probably find a deeper, more significant connection with the friends and girlfriends you have in Spain.

It can get cold in Spain, but it's manageable. I've never been there in the winter, but I'm told there's about of week of unbearable (by Spanish standards) weather in a given year.

[Nowisee]

So...unless you spend more than 183 cumulative days, you basically do not have to pay any income tax on money earned outside of Spain?

Damn...well this rules Spain out:

http://spain.angloinfo.com/money/income-tax/

Personal Income Tax in Spain A quick guide to understanding if you will need to pay income tax in Spain...

You will become liable for tax as a resident of Spain if:

• a) You spend more than 183 cumulative days in one calendar year in Spain i.e. 1st January to 31st December, which is the tax year. You will become liable whether or not you formally register in the Registro Central de Extranjeros or
• Your centre of economic interests is in Spain, i.e. the base for your economic or professional activities is in Spain or
• c) Your centre of vital interests is in Spain, i.e. your spouse lives in Spain and you are not legally separated, and/or your dependent minor children live in Spain.

In Spain, an individual is either resident or not resident for the whole tax year. Part-year tax residency is not part of the Spanish system.

As As a resident of Spain you will be liable for tax on your worldwide income at scale rates after any available allowances and deductions.

Non-residents of Spain will be liable for Spanish income tax only on Spanish income, generally at fixed rates and with no allowances or deductions.

http://spain.angloinfo.com/money/income-tax/how-income-is-taxed/

[eldragon]

I like Thailand in many ways but what I miss terribly is the sense of community that exists in many smaller places in Europe. Asian society doesn't work like that.

It does if you're Asian.

[lostoday]

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

[loppylugs1]

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

[loppylugs1]

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

Not fortunate enough to have money piled into offshore,but if you could answer this, I hold shares ,quite a few too which obv pay dividends (know they will be taxed) but the whole amount of my holding would that be taxable?

Any answer Thanks

[lostoday]

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

You would be right if the average expat rented for 21000 baht. Tell me about what 50 Euros buys in Spain for a living experience?

[loppylugs1]

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

You would be right if the average expat rented for 21000 baht. Tell me about what 50 Euros buys in Spain for a living experience?

All i could answer with that is Big C v average Spanish supermarket pricing ..and that would be one hell of a lot more than Big C offers

[lostoday]

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

You would be right if the average expat rented for 21000 baht. Tell me about what 50 Euros buys in Spain for a living experience?

All i could answer with that is Big C v average Spanish supermarket pricing ..and that would be one hell of a lot more than Big C offers

You would be correct if food expenses were the major living expense. Housing is the major expense. If you can't win on housing you loose. I eat for free in Thailand so I guess that makes momma's farm and distillery the winner but that's not the point is it. It is housing expenses. You can compare rent or purchase (condos) but you have to start with housing.

[loppylugs1]

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

You would be right if the average expat rented for 21000 baht. Tell me about what 50 Euros buys in Spain for a living experience?

All i could answer with that is Big C v average Spanish supermarket pricing ..and that would be one hell of a lot more than Big C offers

You would be correct if food expenses were the major living expense. Housing is the major expense. If you can't win on housing you loose. I eat for free in Thailand so I guess that makes momma's farm and distillery the winner but that's not the point is it. It is housing expenses. You can compare rent or purchase (condos) but you have to start with housing.

Did I not cover housing? 350 euros for 2 bed nicely situated villa,and there are tons of them in certain areas to rent or buy..yes get daily reports of estate agents in Spain 87000 euros nice modern estates,and before negotiations begin ,so 10% off that price at least ..but if I had to live in Nakon Nowhere for my existence ,free food,booze etc Id top my bloody self I assure you on that point,just would be a nightmare existence for me anyway

Yes been to GFs farm,like the back end of mars distance wise gives me the creeps

[JB300]

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

Not fortunate enough to have money piled into offshore,but if you could answer this, I hold shares ,quite a few too which obv pay dividends (know they will be taxed) but the whole amount of my holding would that be taxable?

Any answer Thanks

As a non-UK Resident for Tax purposes, you wouldn't have had to pay any tax on your UK Dividend over & above the withholding Tax (which is a notional Tax that you don't actually pay, hence can't claim back) irrespective of how much dividend you earn.

However, this is all changing from April 6th 2016 when you'll get a £5,000 pa Dividend allowance after which you'll pay 7.5%, 32.5% or 38.1% depending on your other UK income, but it's unclear how it affects non-UK Tax residents so I started a new thread earlier to see if anybody had more information (apologies for plugging it here, but I think it's relevant).

Im curious loppylugs1, if you do move to Spain, will you declare yourself as non-UK resident (don't necessarily need to become Spanish resident if you take frequent trips to other countries in the region), or maintain being UK domiciled?

Genuine question, I've never looked into the pros & cons either way in Europe & if this new Dividend rule means I pay the same either way, I'll be making myself UK Domiciled as I think you only have to visit for 31 days a year to qualify nowadays.

Cheers

JB

Edited August 12, 2015 by JB300

[medina21]

I could rent a modern, 2/3 bed terraced house for 350 euros in the pueblo I lived in. Three thousand baht gets you a cell in a Thai tenement style building. No way José.

As regards investment income, you'll have to pay income tax. Also,If the value of your shareholding(s) exceeds 50,000 euros you'll have to make an asset declaration.

If your net wealth (after deductions) exceeds 700,000 euros you'll have to pay wealth tax. Google wealth tax Spain and you'll find the details. For someone with a house in the SE of England, it wouldn't be difficult to exceed the 700K. Not all of the regions apply this tax, but most do, including the Canaries, Mallorca, Catalonia and Andalucia.

For clarity, the asset declaration and wealth tax are separate requirements.

[loppylugs1]

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

Not fortunate enough to have money piled into offshore,but if you could answer this, I hold shares ,quite a few too which obv pay dividends (know they will be taxed) but the whole amount of my holding would that be taxable?

Any answer Thanks

As a non-UK Resident for Tax purposes, you wouldn't have had to pay any tax on your UK Dividend over & above the withholding Tax (which is a notional Tax that you don't actually pay, hence can't claim back) irrespective of how much dividend you earn.

However, this is all changing from April 6th 2016 when you'll get a £5,000 pa Dividend allowance after which you'll pay 7.5%, 32.5% or 38.1% depending on your other UK income, but it's unclear how it affects non-UK Tax residents so I started a new thread earlier to see if anybody had more information (apologies for plugging it here, but I think it's relevant).

Im curious loppylugs1, if you do move to Spain, will you declare yourself as non-UK resident (don't necessarily need to become Spanish resident if you take frequent trips to other countries in the region), or maintain being UK domiciled?

Genuine question, I've never looked into the pros & cons either way in Europe & if this new Dividend rule means I pay the same either way, I'll be making myself UK Domiciled as I think you only have to visit for 31 days a year to qualify nowadays.

Cheers

JB

I got sidestepped here,I know the thread is Spain,but I'm looking at Portugal,(Algarve) and as one informed poster quoted the tax regime there is off its head,...worldwide assets all swept into one,and I intend living there permanently

I have got to live somewhere,just want out of Thailand,...and the thought of Nakon Nowhere gives me the shivers,dare not go to bed now,nightmares await

[Walter Travolta]

The best thing about Thailand is that you can't get paella.

Paella is easy to get rid of with a course of antibiotics

[loppylugs1]

I could rent a modern, 2/3 bed terraced house for 350 euros in the pueblo I lived in. Three thousand baht gets you a cell in a Thai tenement style building. No way José.

As regards investment income, you'll have to pay income tax. Also,If the value of your shareholding(s) exceeds 50,000 euros you'll have to make an asset declaration.

If your net wealth (after deductions) exceeds 700,000 euros you'll have to pay wealth tax. Google wealth tax Spain and you'll find the details. For someone with a house in the SE of England, it wouldn't be difficult to exceed the 700K. Not all of the regions apply this tax, but most do, including the Canaries, Mallorca, Catalonia and Andalucia.

For clarity, the asset declaration and wealth tax are separate requirements.

This is great stuff,thanks.....but does the asset declaration in itself lead to tax? Maybe a Q too far ,but thanks for information

oops under 700,000

Edited August 12, 2015 by loppylugs1

[medina21]

Hi JB,

You are fiscally resident in the UK unless you advise the revenue that you are leaving the country. I did this through my accountants many years ago and received confirmation from HMRC of my non-resident status.

As a non-resident, you need to be very careful not to exceed a stay of (I think) 30 days in any fiscal year in the UK. The rules on this change regularly. And not in your favour!

[JB300]

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

Not fortunate enough to have money piled into offshore,but if you could answer this, I hold shares ,quite a few too which obv pay dividends (know they will be taxed) but the whole amount of my holding would that be taxable?

Any answer Thanks

As a non-UK Resident for Tax purposes, you wouldn't have had to pay any tax on your UK Dividend over & above the withholding Tax (which is a notional Tax that you don't actually pay, hence can't claim back) irrespective of how much dividend you earn.

However, this is all changing from April 6th 2016 when you'll get a £5,000 pa Dividend allowance after which you'll pay 7.5%, 32.5% or 38.1% depending on your other UK income, but it's unclear how it affects non-UK Tax residents so I started a new thread earlier to see if anybody had more information (apologies for plugging it here, but I think it's relevant).

Im curious loppylugs1, if you do move to Spain, will you declare yourself as non-UK resident (don't necessarily need to become Spanish resident if you take frequent trips to other countries in the region), or maintain being UK domiciled?

Genuine question, I've never looked into the pros & cons either way in Europe & if this new Dividend rule means I pay the same either way, I'll be making myself UK Domiciled as I think you only have to visit for 31 days a year to qualify nowadays.

Cheers

JB

I got sidestepped here,I know the thread is Spain,but I'm looking at Portugal,(Algarve) and as one informed poster quoted the tax regime there is off its head,...worldwide assets all swept into one,and I intend living there permanently

I have got to live somewhere,just want out of Thailand,...and the thought of Nakon Nowhere gives me the shivers,dare not go to bed now,nightmares await

I think you're much better off (Tax wise) in Portugal, plus the golf is much better on the Algarve [emoji106]

[medina21]

Loppylugs,

The government say the asset declaration is only an information gathering exercise. Umh!! Income tax was introduced in the UK to fund the Napoleonic Wars. A temporary measure, they said. BS!!!!! I'm sure the Spanish authorities will use this declaration to find new ways of taxing us.

[medina21]

JB,

You'll pay marginally more income tax in Portugal. Also, they have a solidarity tax of 3.5%, and interest from accounts held in the IOM, Gib, and the Channel Islands is taxed at 35%!

It's a caravan for me with a mail collection point in the UK.

[JB300]

Hi JB,

You are fiscally resident in the UK unless you advise the revenue that you are leaving the country. I did this through my accountants many years ago and received confirmation from HMRC of my non-resident status.

As a non-resident, you need to be very careful not to exceed a stay of (I think) 30 days in any fiscal year in the UK. The rules on this change regularly. And not in your favour!

Hi Medina21,

Yes, I did this about 7 years ago when I went to work in Singapore & am very careful not to exceed 28 days (it counts where you're at at midnight) in any one tax year.

However, now I've retired & living off savings, income from UK property & dividends from UK stocks & shares, the advantages of being a non-Tax resident aren't the same as they were when I was paying 11% income tax Vs 45% so if they do away with the non-Tax Dom perks on dividends then all's that's left is CGT which can be offset by being able to contribute to an ISA again (on which you won't have to pay any of the new dividend tax) & as none of the assets I own (apart from property which is same as a resident or non-resident) would be liable for CGT my gut feel is that I'd be better off being a UK Tax Resident again & not having to count how many days a year I spend there.

Cheers

JB

Edit: I should mention that I'm a bit of a Nomad so it's no problem for me to base myself in any country where I can get some form of legitimate residency status.

EU is great for us EU citizens (though our American cousins don't seem to have too many problems moving there) so I think this topic is well timed as more & more people start to question whether Thailand is the right place for them to spend their sunset years.

I honestly believe that if it wasn't for the women (either availability for the single guys or Thai wives for the married ones), even more people would look at (the sunnier) countries in Europe.

Edited August 12, 2015 by JB300

[Time Traveller]

The CONs living in thailand include:

Theives,

Drug dealers,

Thugs,

Fraudsters,

Gangsters,

Murderers,

Pedofiles,

Con men,

Rapists.

Spain probably has a similar list of CONs

Edited August 12, 2015 by Time Traveller

[medina21]

In the EU, the UK is the best place to be a taxpayer.

However, the lower cost of living in parts of southern Europe reduces the impact of higher tax. For example, a cafe con leche in many bars costs 70p, against £2/2.50? in Starbucks etc. Well, there's a saving of £650 on the basis of one coffee a day . Your food bill is also quite a bit less. I recall buying tuna in the food market in Cadiz and being amazed at how cheap it was.

The weather in the UK would not suit me at all, so it's likely to be southern Spain.

Another factor, is being able to start a small biz. Unfortunately, it's way too complicated, not to mention risky, to open a biz here. No point complaining, that's the way it is. Taking over a bungalow resort on a lease is not my idea of a smart way to spend your capital. It's certainly not an 'investment'.

Like you JB, I've turned into a bit of a nomad (since I turned 40) but I feel it's time to have a base somewhere, even if I'm not there all the time.

This thread is timely. Putting your thoughts on paper helps to rationalize the pros and cons.

Getting older presents its own set of challenges

[loppylugs1]

Edit: I should mention that I'm a bit of a Nomad so it's no problem for me to base myself in any country where I can get some form of legitimate residency status.

EU is great for us EU citizens (though our American cousins don't seem to have too many problems moving there) so I think this topic is well timed as more & more people start to question whether Thailand is the right place for them to spend their sunset years.

I honestly believe that if it wasn't for the women (either availability for the single guys or Thai wives for the married ones), even more people would look at (the sunnier) countries in Europe.

For me,and I speak for a fair few too who share my view ,you are so right. Age is an embarrassment,that clock ticks away,and there is nothing to look forward to ,not in Thailand anyway,its cheap,but its nasty . The potential for anything,anything to go wrong and you stand on your own. Friend here,not too badly off,but pension frozen (the idiot) cannot afford a lifesaving operation on his heart,sad

Spain has everything going for it,its the freedom that farang cannot possibly get in Thailand,the cheapness of it for farang food,wine ,beer if that is what is wanted.

I feel like I'm in a straightjacket here,and for too long,women ?sure Ive had 10 lifetimes of sex all in the last 7 years,fed up with it now

Just weighing up the tax implication of both Spain and Portugal,Spain the gross tax bill for year 1, Portugal,that solidarity tax ,and I do not fancy a bank haircut later in the year if the forthcoming elections demand one,so Ill hold fire on a move there until the new year

Cannot thank you enough for your comments

[MaeJoMTB]

Why choose just one place?

Summer in Spain, Winter in Thailand, Tax in home country.

[slerickson]

Europe does sound good for a change. Living in rural Thailand eliminates the crime downside and traffic insanity. Being 40 minutes from Chiamgmai affords western foods, restaurants, shopping, etc. The pace of life here reminds me of when I was growing up in a small town 50 years ago. But yea for a change of scenery after having spent time in Nam, China, and Indonesia I'd consider very seriously moving to Spain for a while. I travelled there in the mid 80s and it was ok but remember after 7 days I couldn't wait to get back to Germany.

It's just that the woman I live with is irreplaceable. Been married in the states 3 times but this lady is about perfect so I think as long as we're together Thailand will be my base.

[medina21]

loppylugs,

Interested you mention a 'bank haircut'. We all know what happened in Cyprus. I would only maintain a small balance in these countries. You can always open a euro account with your UK bank if the exchange rate becomes too favorable. Just don't use your bank to buy euros.

The socialists are likely to win the coming election in Portugal, and Podemos, the Spanish version of Syriza, will have a big say in the outcome of the December election in Spain, so I think it's wise to prepare a worst case scenario for your savings. These countries are broke. It wouldn't surprise me if Spain introduced a 'solidarity tax', following their cousins in Portugal and Greece.

But, at the end of the day, we all have to continue with our lives. Who knows what will happen here, but here's a thought. What would happen if the retirement visa required a minimum balance of 2,000,000 baht when you apply for/renew your visa? Now that would be a 'black swan' moment for many ex-pats.

[KittenKong]

Just weighing up the tax implication of both Spain and Portugal,Spain the gross tax bill for year 1, Portugal,that solidarity tax ,and I do not fancy a bank haircut later in the year if the forthcoming elections demand one,so Ill hold fire on a move there until the new year

No one with bank accounts containing less than the official EU guaranteed amount of 100,000EUR per banking licence lost a bean in the Cyprus collapse. The only people who lost money were those who deposited more than 100KEUR per bank, and most of them were Russians involved in tax fraud or other criminals. My heart bleeds for them. The "haircut" was really just a tax on stupidity and the proceeds of crime.

Besides which, just because you live in Portugal does not mean that you have to keep all (or any) of your money there. I live in Thailand but 90% of my wealth is not here.