Astrology - your experiences

[mauGR1]

Well, Mr. attrayant, if i look at the sky and i see the stars, and you have a blanket on your eyes and you say that there are no stars..

I' m not going to discuss that..

[coulson]

As has been pointed out, the percentage of the worlds population that have some belief of either religion, the occult, myths, legends or astrology......is enormous.

Appeal to popularity. Just because a lot of people believe is something silly, does not make it any less silly. Alternately stated, a statement's truth value has absolutely no bearing on the number of people who believe it (in the absence of solid evidence) to be true. Some level of proof must be presented. Further, the greater and more incredible the claim, the more compelling the evidence must be to support it.

Can't all be ignorant and stupid.

Why not? There is a huge number of uneducated and minimally educated people on this planet.

And you've actually undermined your own premise by saying that there is a huge number of people who believe in some religion. According to the The World Factbook there are: 2.2 billion Christians and 1.7 billion Muslims in the world (2013 est.). I hope you'll agree that certainly both religions can't be the one true region. So that means there are either 2.2 billion wrong Christians or 1.7 billion wrong Muslims in the world, with about 3 billion other wrong people believing other assorted "wrong" religions.

That's a whole lot of ignorant and stupid people (to use your words).

I said they can't ALL be ignorant and stupid.

The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof.

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

[taotoo]

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

This hocus pocus is BS.

Now name my dubious beliefs.

[cumgranosalum]

As has been pointed out, the percentage of the worlds population that have some belief of either religion, the occult, myths, legends or astrology......is enormous.

Appeal to popularity. Just because a lot of people believe is something silly, does not make it any less silly. Alternately stated, a statement's truth value has absolutely no bearing on the number of people who believe it (in the absence of solid evidence) to be true. Some level of proof must be presented. Further, the greater and more incredible the claim, the more compelling the evidence must be to support it.

Can't all be ignorant and stupid.

Why not? There is a huge number of uneducated and minimally educated people on this planet.

And you've actually undermined your own premise by saying that there is a huge number of people who believe in some religion. According to the The World Factbook there are: 2.2 billion Christians and 1.7 billion Muslims in the world (2013 est.). I hope you'll agree that certainly both religions can't be the one true region. So that means there are either 2.2 billion wrong Christians or 1.7 billion wrong Muslims in the world, with about 3 billion other wrong people believing other assorted "wrong" religions.

That's a whole lot of ignorant and stupid people (to use your words).

I said they can't ALL be ignorant and stupid.

The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof.

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

"I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own."

So tell me how to these "dubious beliefs" mitigate the obvious fact that astrology is bunkum in anyway whatsoever?

"The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof."

All your post does is emphasise the paucity of thought, lack of critical thinking that is typical of people who believe there is "something in" astrology.

"regardless of proof" - comeon even you admit their is NO EVEIDENCE at all to support but a wealth of human knowledge that prooves it is bunkum.

[coulson]

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

This hocus pocus is BS.

Now name my dubious beliefs.

I'm not a mind reader, however I need a little to work with.....(before I post a very long list of popular phenomena) so can l ask you to do something?

Think about a nice setting....close your eyes and relax, try and visualize images and then noises from your memories. Tap the fingers of your left hand, from right to left and then back, in succession, three times. Count backwards from 100 in 7's, then pinch yourself.

Congratulations, you've just activated most of your brain.

Now, use it....and try more than a sentence next time.

[coulson]

As has been pointed out, the percentage of the worlds population that have some belief of either religion, the occult, myths, legends or astrology......is enormous.

Appeal to popularity. Just because a lot of people believe is something silly, does not make it any less silly. Alternately stated, a statement's truth value has absolutely no bearing on the number of people who believe it (in the absence of solid evidence) to be true. Some level of proof must be presented. Further, the greater and more incredible the claim, the more compelling the evidence must be to support it.

Can't all be ignorant and stupid.

Why not? There is a huge number of uneducated and minimally educated people on this planet.

And you've actually undermined your own premise by saying that there is a huge number of people who believe in some religion. According to the The World Factbook there are: 2.2 billion Christians and 1.7 billion Muslims in the world (2013 est.). I hope you'll agree that certainly both religions can't be the one true region. So that means there are either 2.2 billion wrong Christians or 1.7 billion wrong Muslims in the world, with about 3 billion other wrong people believing other assorted "wrong" religions.

That's a whole lot of ignorant and stupid people (to use your words).

I said they can't ALL be ignorant and stupid.

The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof.

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

"I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own."

So tell me how to these "dubious beliefs" mitigate the obvious fact that astrology is bunkum in anyway whatsoever?

"The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof."

All your post does is emphasise the paucity of thought, lack of critical thinking that is typical of people who believe there is "something in" astrology.

"regardless of proof" - comeon even you admit their is NO EVEIDENCE at all to support but a wealth of human knowledge that prooves it is bunkum.

I never said I believe in Astrology.

I do, for the sake of this conversation, sincerely believe there are quite a few things the human race does not yet understand, call me stupid if you like.....

[attrayant]

If i look at the sky and i see the stars, and you have a blanket on your eyes and you say that there are no stars..

I' m not going to discuss that..

Then you're not playing by the rules of evidence-based learning. That's how this whole science/discovery/debate/proof thing works. Why don't you point out that I have a blanket on my eyes? If I do, that will b e easily discovered and rectified.

Of course if I don't actually have such an obstruction on my eyes, and people around me can also veryfy that, then we're all going to turn to you and ask why you think I've got a blanket on my eyes when I clearly don't.

I realize you're using that blanket as a metaphor, but this whole 'blanket on the eyes' thing smacks of faith-based belief systems and the mantra of "you'll believe if you just try hard enough". Sorry, but that's not how validation works.

[overherebc]

According to my Patpong Rolex I was born on the 32nd of Novembury . How can I find out what my future will be?

Hold on, I've worked it out.

I will be a day late for every meeting in the future, or will that be a day early, wish someone would tell me

[cumgranosalum]

I said they can't ALL be ignorant and stupid.

The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof.

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

"I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own."

So tell me how to these "dubious beliefs" mitigate the obvious fact that astrology is bunkum in anyway whatsoever?

"The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof."

All your post does is emphasise the paucity of thought, lack of critical thinking that is typical of people who believe there is "something in" astrology.

"regardless of proof" - comeon even you admit their is NO EVEIDENCE at all to support but a wealth of human knowledge that prooves it is bunkum.

I never said I believe in Astrology.

I do, for the sake of this conversation, sincerely believe there are quite a few things the human race does not yet understand, call me stupid if you like.....

No but you are using non-rational thinking - you proposal that as there are things we don't understand they might or must be B or C is a fallacious argument.

In fact the proposed "mechanisms for astrology - the "inlfuence of the planets" is pretty much a non-starter so any further conclusions from that premise are flawed from the start....and no! they won't ever be proved right.

[mauGR1]

If i look at the sky and i see the stars, and you have a blanket on your eyes and you say that there are no stars..

I' m not going to discuss that..

Then you're not playing by the rules of evidence-based learning. That's how this whole science/discovery/debate/proof thing works. Why don't you point out that I have a blanket on my eyes? If I do, that will b e easily discovered and rectified.

Of course if I don't actually have such an obstruction on my eyes, and people around me can also veryfy that, then we're all going to turn to you and ask why you think I've got a blanket on my eyes when I clearly don't.

I realize you're using that blanket as a metaphor, but this whole 'blanket on the eyes' thing smacks of faith-based belief systems and the mantra of "you'll believe if you just try hard enough". Sorry, but that's not how validation works.

Well, i say again, i am skeptical about Astrology, and i wouldn't try to validate it.

My point is, that what we call " reality " is only partially understood by what you call " evidence-based learning ".

We can agree that Astrology is not an "exact science " , but the plain fact that normally intelligent people are studying and practicing it , is enough for me to admit the possibility that there could be something in it.

[johnnysunshine]

Interesting that of all who continue to bash astrology after I shared my personal experience, I did not hear of one individual that actually invested merely One Whole Minute - maybe less, to look at their chart.

Instructions on www.astro.com are easy. Just click on Free Horoscopes and then click on Personal Portrait and fill in your info and see your chart come up and read it and see what it says. Is someone able to do that?

I am other than attempting to convert you and have no interest either way other than just possibly to see if you can observe without judgement.

Please take that minute and then get back to me and say that the descriptions were totally inaccurate and in no way reflected your personality or character.

No, I am other than a Capricorn, but I have a Scorpio Sun, (which is my essence) who likes to investigate and get to the true nature of things, and a Taurus Moon (about my feelings and emotions), with an Aquarius Rising (Ascendant) which is about my personality and how others see me as well as how I see myself. It can be fun and enlightening.

[mauGR1]

Interesting that of all who continue to bash astrology after I shared my personal experience, I did not hear of one individual that actually invested merely One Whole Minute - maybe less, to look at their chart.

Instructions on www.astro.com are easy. Just click on Free Horoscopes and then click on Personal Portrait and fill in your info and see your chart come up and read it and see what it says. Is someone able to do that?

I am other than attempting to convert you and have no interest either way other than just possibly to see if you can observe without judgement.

Please take that minute and then get back to me and say that the descriptions were totally inaccurate and in no way reflected your personality or character.

No, I am other than a Capricorn, but I have a Scorpio Sun, (which is my essence) who likes to investigate and get to the true nature of things, and a Taurus Moon (about my feelings and emotions), with an Aquarius Rising (Ascendant) which is about my personality and how others see me as well as how I see myself. It can be fun and enlightening.

Hi JS, i just checked the site you recommend.

Have to say , despite maintaining my skeptical attitude, that the site seems to be very well done.

Thanks for sharing, soon as i have time i will check more in detail.

[daoyai]

Ok, went to the astro.com site, did the free short chart option, (want more, gotta pay) actually read 3/4s of it , that was enough to show me the typical descrition of "my" personality traits that are so common and generic they would fit most peoples self image. There were a few that didn't fit me though. This brings to mind an experiment conducted by the "Amazing Randy" where he took a group of people, had their basic charts done and then returned them to the individuals, a vast majority thought the info. to be accurate personality assessments. They were then informed that the charts had been switched within the group and the traits were generic and fit most peoples self images.

One thing I have noticed is the similarity of wooist new agers to fundy religious people in that they are quick to anger and insult those that disagree, look at how johnysunshine opens his first post calling nonbelievers "supreme idiots" and "asses" . ... this shows they are emotionally tied to their unsupported beliefs. Critical thinkers and the science minded are more interested in getting to the truth even if it contradicts previously held ideas. We are "open minded" in that we look at evidence from all sides of a topic. There are some topics that have been so well studied that only new evidence interests us, for astrology unfortunatly, there is no new evidence. case closed.

Edited August 27, 2015 by daoyai

[coulson]

I said they can't ALL be ignorant and stupid.

The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof.

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

"I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own."

So tell me how to these "dubious beliefs" mitigate the obvious fact that astrology is bunkum in anyway whatsoever?

"The only thing common is the minds ability to percieve, imagine or trust something for which there is no verified evidence......

Bashing Astrology is the same as bashing anyone who believes in something that you don't, regardless of proof."

All your post does is emphasise the paucity of thought, lack of critical thinking that is typical of people who believe there is "something in" astrology.

"regardless of proof" - comeon even you admit their is NO EVEIDENCE at all to support but a wealth of human knowledge that prooves it is bunkum.

I never said I believe in Astrology.

I do, for the sake of this conversation, sincerely believe there are quite a few things the human race does not yet understand, call me stupid if you like.....

No but you are using non-rational thinking - you proposal that as there are things we don't understand they might or must be B or C is a fallacious argument.

In fact the proposed "mechanisms for astrology - the "inlfuence of the planets" is pretty much a non-starter so any further conclusions from that premise are flawed from the start....and no! they won't ever be proved right.

I never made that argument/ proposal!

As far as 'things we don't understand', can you then try and explain the following?

Entropy

Parallel Universe

String theory

Navier-Stokes equation

Dark matter

Lord Kelvin proclaimed in 1900 that 'there was nothing new to be discovered in Physics, just more precise measurement" so if you ask me, there are also wild guesses in Science.

The human brain isn't limited to cognitive action.

[taotoo]

I do guarantee that all of those who came on here and said one liner *this hocus pocus is BS* blah blah......have some dubious beliefs of their own.

This hocus pocus is BS.

Now name my dubious beliefs.

I'm not a mind reader, however I need a little to work with.....

You could at least have asked for my date of birth...

[fishbrando]

I am skeptical about Astrology, but i am even more skeptical about people who spend time mocking other people's beliefs.

Inaccurate and unhelpful beliefs should be mocked, otherwise, how will people know that they are wrong?

No belief or person should be above mockery.

[fishbrando]

Interesting that of all who continue to bash astrology after I shared my personal experience, I did not hear of one individual that actually invested merely One Whole Minute - maybe less, to look at their chart.

As I quoted before: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Some website that gives convincing astrological charts doesn't really count as evidence.

Point me to an article/paper in a peer-reviewed journal that rejects the null hypothesis for Astrology and I promise that I'll spend many hours reading it.

Why do I insist on a peer-reviewed scientific journal? Because I trust in the system that cured polio, created GPS, and sent a vehicle to Mars.

Excerpt from Cosmos by Carl Sagan:

Astrology can be tested by the lives of twins. There are many cases in which one twin is killed in childhood, in a riding accident, say, or is struck by lightning, while the other lives to a prosperous old age. Each was born in precisely the same place and within minutes of the “other. Exactly the same planets were rising at their births. If astrology were valid, how could two such twins have such profoundly different fates? It also turns out that astrologers cannot even agree among themselves on what a given horoscope means. In careful tests, they are unable to predict the character and future of people they knew nothing about except their time and place of birth.

[mauGR1]

I am skeptical about Astrology, but i am even more skeptical about people who spend time mocking other people's beliefs.

Inaccurate and unhelpful beliefs should be mocked, otherwise, how will people know that they are wrong?

No belief or person should be above mockery.

You are right, i think in your second paragraph, so in a list of inaccurate and unhelpful beliefs, do you think Astrology stays at the top ?

And who decide which people are wrong ?

[attrayant]

Experts decide.

Now I can see into the future and know your next question is "how do we know who the experts are?"

Experts are those people who have devoted many years studying, documenting, classifying and describing natural phenomena. But wait, there's more! We don't just stop at a few experts, or even a few dozen. Hypotheses are subject to rigorous and scathing critical review by tens of thousands of their peers all over the world, not in an attempt to validate them - but to invalidate them. Experts make their work available for all to see so that anyone and everyone can try to shoot it full of holes.

As an example, there is a phenomena - oh let's call it gravity - that physicists can describe to an extremely fine degree and use that set of descriptors to predict how objects move through space. If sufficiently documented and explained, another physicist on the other side of the world can take that theory and successfully replicate it, validating the hypothesis of the first physicist. This happens repeatedly by one expert after another until we reach a point where there is broad general consensus between physicists all over the world about what gravity is and how we expect it to behave. Thus far, not one single person has come along and presented a case where the accepted laws of gravity don't seem to apply.

Sadly, astrology can't pass the same test as the "experts" on astrology seem to disagree with each other even on the most basic of matters. When a group of test subjects was presented with the following "personalized" astrological reading, they gave it a very high accuracy score of 85.2% (average), before being told that they had all received exactly the same reading:

You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.

In short, astrology simply doesn't work.

[edited to add]: here's a good video showing people being duped by this phenomena, called the Forer Effect. Scroll about half way down for the video. Some of the subjects rated the reading 95-99% accurate before finding out that everyone had received the same exact reading.

http://www.sociallypsyched.org/item/forer-effect

Edited August 27, 2015 by attrayant

[opalred]

must be a lot of bush people out there to be born under the stars

what are you when you are born indoors

i feel left out

do they have a place for people born under light bulb

[johnnysunshine]

First, I apologize for any bashing I may have done with emotional laden words.

Second, thanks for those who at least looked at their charts. The information is general I agree. I have studied what all of the planets and houses mean and that is quite convincing for me after you look deeper. Astrology works for me and for the folks I counsel.

I don't see Astrology for seeing into the future...that is what psychics do. I see it for understanding my self.

"Prove all things and hold fast to that which is true for you." As I said before, I do not have an investment in converting you into anything.

Regarding Polio being cured by a vaccine...I suggest you enquire further for the real truth regarding the "adjusted" measurements of success.

"Experts have developed their intuition...otherwise people are just repeating statements of other people.

[AlexRRR]

I study Tarot and Kabbalah for hobby. I do not like to use it in other people. It is very interesting, precise sometimes, and easy to learn. I do not have doubts that our lives are connected with events and energy changes in the full universe.

Only very few people do Astrology seriously, because it a very complicated task, and it is not a future telling to become rich. Most astrologers do just for hobby, because will be very expensive to customers to do it commercially. Probably some rich people are in contact with good astrologers.

I have a close friend in the US that is a professional in other area, but a serious astrologer, and I know his work. He said that doing it properly can show the most dramatic events in a person life, even reason and time of death.

He only do under written conditions and contract, and for some very particular people. He never do it for friends and family.

The ones online, or cheap, are just scammers.

Fine, lets see the evidence................what you dont have any???? but but but.........ah ok its "belief"

OK so does it also affect animals, does it work down to an amoeba, if there were no humans would there be no astrology?, how do the outer dwarf planets, which are quite large that you didnt know about 30 years ago effect us...........Im all ears?

PS I guess you knew this question was coming and have already called your friend to let me know.

Firstly I don't take much notice of Astro etc but I do believe in all of that metaphysic stuff, and the reason I don't go looking for answers from who ever is because I don't want to give my power away.

Having said that you ask for proof... Well there are many things over history that's been reported and would seemed to have existed yet little or no proof of it is around other than someone writing about it, let's start with the moon landing by men, did the yanks really get bin laden and depose his body to sea? Where's the proof? Video?

It's so easy to debunk everything and so hard to find the real proof, good idea the guys shooting from there hips put up something tangible so we can take a pot shoot at them.

[cumgranosalum]

Everbody's experience of astrology is the same - it doesn't do anything has no effect, no merit no foundation in reality...or hyper-/ meta-realities either...the only difference is the interpretation some people put on this complete lack of effect.