Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[smokie36]

Response i expected, yes there is viable evidence he was is in Bangkok, you seen it, i seen it, the B2 Brigade seen it. I will give you a 24hr Challenge, show me he was not in Bangkok.... i will monitor your progress and remind you. Prediction, you will deflect the challenge, you will run scared and post some illogical words to substantiate why you cannot do this.. clock is ticking

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

A quick check of Bangkok Airways passenger lists would solve that you would have thought.

[Gweiloman]

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

Balo, I think this might be your only post on this topic that I have liked because it's a reasonable point that you have raised for debate.

I believe that there is more than a 50% chance that NS was on KT. My reasoning is that if he can produce CCTV footage of him leaving the apartment on the morning of the murders, then there should also be footage of him entering his apartment the night before. Let's face it, it's highly unlikely that a young uni lad would have stayed in his room for over 24 hours, right? If I were him, I would have produced footage of my movements in and out of the apartment for a full 24 hours before the murders - that would be the simplest and easiest way to shut up any critics. Why wasn't it done? I don't need to answer that.

Regardless of whether KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, there is no doubt that the Family is very influential. Anyone living on KT who knows what's good for them is highly unlikely to cross that Family. It's just a matter of self preservation, nothing more. No one needs to be asked to shut their mouth. They just won't open it. Don't tell me that you disagree with this point?

Edited to add:

@Balo - can you give me a good explanation as to Panya's initial statement? Was he so mistaken? Or possibly something more sinister?

[Nigeone]

Response i expected, yes there is viable evidence he was is in Bangkok, you seen it, i seen it, the B2 Brigade seen it. I will give you a 24hr Challenge, show me he was not in Bangkok.... i will monitor your progress and remind you. Prediction, you will deflect the challenge, you will run scared and post some illogical words to substantiate why you cannot do this.. clock is ticking

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

Fair comment and equally I would agree with what your saying but also there's equally no witnesses to come forward in Bangkok to say he was with them etc on the night/morning of the crime. So while it's possible for either scenario to be valid it's equally puzzling that in both cases there's no witnesses to prove either possibility. That to me is more than a little suspicious. Where ever he was that night he wasn't alone,we all know how sociable Thais are and he was out and about and certainly unlikely to be alone in his room somewhere. But yet nobody has come forward in either location to back up any story. It's almost as if he didn't exist for that evening and turned up early morning, maybe !! In Bangkok. All leaves suspicion to the whole process..

[Madaussie]

Response i expected, yes there is viable evidence he was is in Bangkok, you seen it, i seen it, the B2 Brigade seen it. I will give you a 24hr Challenge, show me he was not in Bangkok.... i will monitor your progress and remind you. Prediction, you will deflect the challenge, you will run scared and post some illogical words to substantiate why you cannot do this.. clock is ticking

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

[catsanddogs]

I hope it it not against forum rules to post a link to DVB News. Full article at -

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-zaw-linn-details-police-torture-burma-thailand-myanmar/56989

Asked to elaborate on the alleged death threats, Moe Wai said the suspect testified that police officers told him that if he confessed he would only land in prison for four or five years, but that if he continued to deny it, they would murder him and dump his body.

“The police allegedly told him that no one had seen him being arrested the night before and so they could easily dispose of him. They told him he had only one choice.

[Madaussie]

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

Balo, I think this might be your only post on this topic that I have liked because it's a reasonable point that you have raised for debate.

I believe that there is more than a 50% chance that NS was on KT. My reasoning is that if he can produce CCTV footage of him leaving the apartment on the morning of the murders, then there should also be footage of him entering his apartment the night before. Let's face it, it's highly unlikely that a young uni lad would have stayed in his room for over 24 hours, right? If I were him, I would have produced footage of my movements in and out of the apartment for a full 24 hours before the murders - that would be the simplest and easiest way to shut up any critics. Why wasn't it done? I don't need to answer that.

Regardless of whether KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, there is no doubt that the Family is very influential. Anyone living on KT who knows what's good for them is highly unlikely to cross that Family. It's just a matter of self preservation, nothing more. No one needs to be asked to shut their mouth. They just won't open it. Don't tell me that you disagree with this point?

Edited to add:

@Balo - can you give me a good explanation as to Panya's initial statement? Was he so mistaken? Or possibly something more sinister?

This is the clincher..They never produced the going in part. they didn't need to doctor the video just show you the part you needed to see. the going out bit. If it is as some suggest they will have been making frantic decisions on the way to BKK. How to get in without being seen for example. There was a lot of chatter on the thai forums saying his g/f hadn't seen him all weekend etc but you know how chatter spreads. we need evidence. that's all

[BritTim]

Response i expected, yes there is viable evidence he was is in Bangkok, you seen it, i seen it, the B2 Brigade seen it. I will give you a 24hr Challenge, show me he was not in Bangkok.... i will monitor your progress and remind you. Prediction, you will deflect the challenge, you will run scared and post some illogical words to substantiate why you cannot do this.. clock is ticking

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

The key Bangkok CCTV is that presented by Thai PBS. They were given free access to all the CCTV coverage at Nomsod's apartment from all cameras from 2:00 am until after 9:00 am of the morning of 15 September. The key finding is that no camera saw him enter and several saw him leave. It has been claimed (but not substantiated) that the furniture in the lobby was not consistent with the coverage being from 15 September (ie date and time altered). Multiple journalists were interested in the story, but the furniture claim was never shown to be true. If the CCTV was doctored, IMHO it was cleverly done.

[catsanddogs]

Maung Maung's whereabouts is deeply worrying. It was widely reported following the arrests of the B2 in October that he was being detained in a hotel as a witness to the crime and that Burmese Embassy officials were denied access to him. Surely someone somewhere knows if he is alive and well?

[Madaussie]

Response i expected, yes there is viable evidence he was is in Bangkok, you seen it, i seen it, the B2 Brigade seen it. I will give you a 24hr Challenge, show me he was not in Bangkok.... i will monitor your progress and remind you. Prediction, you will deflect the challenge, you will run scared and post some illogical words to substantiate why you cannot do this.. clock is ticking

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

The key Bangkok CCTV is that presented by Thai PBS. They were given free access to all the CCTV coverage at Nomsod's apartment from all cameras from 2:00 am until after 9:00 am of the morning of 15 September. The key finding is that no camera saw him enter and several saw him leave. It has been claimed (but not substantiated) that the furniture in the lobby was not consistent with the coverage being from 15 September (ie date and time altered). Multiple journalists were interested in the story, but the furniture claim was never shown to be true. If the CCTV was doctored, IMHO it was cleverly done.

There was several suggestions made of how easy it is to get into that apartment block without using the main entrance inc the fire escape in the car park. there is multiple ways. no huge apartment has a single point of exit/entrance

[BritTim]

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

A quick check of Bangkok Airways passenger lists would solve that you would have thought.

There are multiple airports he could travel from, and a private charter (at a price) would be possible. Even ignoring the option of a helicopter, checking all the possibilities would have been time consuming, but should have been done. However, why would anyone expect this when they did not even bother to check who left the island on early boats out that morning?

[catsanddogs]

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-zaw-linn-details-police-torture-burma-thailand-myanmar/56989

What has not been mentioned (as far as I know) in court is whether or not the Burmese men had given DNA samples prior to 1st October or not. There was much heated debate on this forum relating to this matter. All the Burmese that were tested prior to this date were released because the police said there were no matches. Surely this is an important aspect that needs clearing up by the defence?“Zaw Linn said the police came to arrest him on 1 October, some 15 days after the incident and during which time he had gone to work as usual,” the Burmese NGO worker said. “He said the police came to arrest him and six others in their room between midnight and 1am.

[Madaussie]

Maung Maung's whereabouts is deeply worrying. It was widely reported following the arrests of the B2 in October that he was being detained in a hotel as a witness to the crime and that Burmese Embassy officials were denied access to him. Surely someone somewhere knows if he is alive and well?

Ask Andy.

[BritTim]

The key Bangkok CCTV is that presented by Thai PBS. They were given free access to all the CCTV coverage at Nomsod's apartment from all cameras from 2:00 am until after 9:00 am of the morning of 15 September. The key finding is that no camera saw him enter and several saw him leave. It has been claimed (but not substantiated) that the furniture in the lobby was not consistent with the coverage being from 15 September (ie date and time altered). Multiple journalists were interested in the story, but the furniture claim was never shown to be true. If the CCTV was doctored, IMHO it was cleverly done.

There was several suggestions made of how easy it is to get into that apartment block without using the main entrance inc the fire escape in the car park. there is multiple ways. no huge apartment has a single point of exit/entrance

Yes, he could have entered the building without using the main entrance (assuming someone inside the building to open the entry and disable alarms). However, entering his room would have required using the corridor on his floor, and that camera was one of those checked.

[steffi]

I'm not sure how they can use the words inconclusive anyway when they established that it did not belong to either Hannah or David. Thats pretty conclusive right? Now all they need to do is compare it to all suspects past and present in the same way they compared it to the victims, oh wait forgot, its missing.........oooops so an unidentified killer walks free

The inconclusive reference is simple, it's not matched to an individual, but in the realms of your thoughts you could say it is deemed conclusive in regard to the deceased DNA profiles. At this stage there is no need to progress further as alternative evidence exists to bring a case against the two men currently on trial.

I'm pretty sure you'll find the prosecution have finished their case and as yet we are still waiting for this evidence that you allude to. By the way, you say there's no need to progress with the hair comparisons. Your right there as its one of the items that is missing from the prosecution shopping trolley. Its the turn of the defense now.

Lets hope we don't find further evidence of neglect from the investigation because not pursuing such a significant piece of evidence that was in the clutched hand of Hannah is unforgivable and yes my opinion is there is an unidentified killer or killers on the loose.

Thailandchilli, yes it's great you have the dedication to pursue these avenues of thought, but please note comments like 'we don't find further evidence of neglect' cannot be construed as a valid point, given you, or the B2 Brigade are not part of the investigative team and have no input to the outcome of the case. We are all sat on the outside looking in, being fed snippets of information via twitter or other minor news agencies.

My point of neglect in the way the investigation was carried out is valid. The reports we get are carried not only by twitter, but from from the international media outlets including the BBC report today so not minor news agencies although they also jump on the ban wagon. I personally can't do anything but perhaps others can including the latest international observers in the court room

For me the hair doesn't need to point to an individual to be relevant. Even if it indicated foreigner versus Asian it has some value. I'm surprised they cannot tell that from the hair.

[Madaussie]

The key Bangkok CCTV is that presented by Thai PBS. They were given free access to all the CCTV coverage at Nomsod's apartment from all cameras from 2:00 am until after 9:00 am of the morning of 15 September. The key finding is that no camera saw him enter and several saw him leave. It has been claimed (but not substantiated) that the furniture in the lobby was not consistent with the coverage being from 15 September (ie date and time altered). Multiple journalists were interested in the story, but the furniture claim was never shown to be true. If the CCTV was doctored, IMHO it was cleverly done.

There was several suggestions made of how easy it is to get into that apartment block without using the main entrance inc the fire escape in the car park. there is multiple ways. no huge apartment has a single point of exit/entrance

Yes, he could have entered the building without using the main entrance (assuming someone inside the building to open the entry and disable alarms). However, entering his room would have required using the corridor on his floor, and that camera was one of those checked.

Balcony?.. We used to smuggle people into our hotels to avoid the joiner fee via balcony's lol... Sorry shouldn't reveal my secrets.

[catsanddogs]

Mr Abbott said after the testimony: “Based on what we heard today, that he was stripped naked, had plastic bags placed over his head, blindfolded and made to fear for his life in order to extract a confession, it is very likely to meet the definition of torture as defined by the Convention Against Torture, to which Thailand is a party.

“In order for justice to be provided to the victims and their families, and to ensure fairness to the accused, today’s allegations of torture must be subject to a serious enquiry by the court and if proven, any evidence obtained as a result of the torture must be set aside.”

www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/one_of_the_men_accused_of_killing_hemsby_student_hannah_witheridge_could_have_been_tortured_1_4218129

[Madaussie]

For me the hair doesn't need to point to an individual to be relevant. Even if it indicated foreigner versus Asian it has some value. I'm surprised they cannot tell that from the hair.

The hair was Hannah last gasp gift Steffi IMHO. I am utterly amazed at the announcement they lost it. It could have solved the case. You CAN get DNA from a root. So even what ever they say about other DNA the hair was so relevant to the case.

[catsanddogs]

www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/one_of_the_men_accused_of_killing_hemsby_student_hannah_witheridge_could_have_been_tortured_1_4218129

He also claimed that at various re-enactments of the crime, which followed their confessions, they were shown pictures of the crime scene, and told what to say and do.

Well most folk following the non-investigation knew this as it was happening! There must be someone or others who assisted the RTP in directing the re-enactment who knew what really happened that morning. What a frigging world to have to bring your kids up in!

[Eirene]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

[catsanddogs]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

[silverado]

I read somewhere that it is possible to "doctor" CCTV videos and that the video taken in the entrance hall and the corridor of a BKK condo block had been "altered" (time, date). I also read that the girlfriend of the young man in question affirmed in her Facebook that he was certainly not in BKK during that weekend.

Is this mere coincidence, or am I imagining stuff that I read?

As mentioned above, a good friend is Thai and works on the island. He has made it quite clear that "normal" Thais who live and work together there know that the little B2 guys are not the brightest or biggest sparks in the bonfire, and that they are fall-guys. The Thais themselves know that the killer is related to the Mr Big and is his son or nephew. But most Thais down there keep mouths shut because the cops or the mafia big guys would get to you first.

This whole case reeks of Thai-ness at its worst. Corrupt, face loss, business interests, paradise island, lies and more lies. Official lies.

[IslandLover]

Is it just me or is there any increased level of aggression among the shills ever since the defence's case started? The baits and flames are coming out in full force. There is no way that any logical and objective person can say that the prosecution has proved their case beyond any reasonable doubt. In fact, their perfect have flamed the fires of doubt every greater.

And yet, there is a contingent of about 4-5 posters who take great pain to put down logical and sensible posts. The only conclusion I can draw is that they are all out to get as many posters suspended/banned as possible with their biased and disgusting posts, knowing full well that sensible posters struggle to deal with BS and misdirections and are compelled to respond to set the record straight.

<deleted>

You've certainly got them sussed

[IslandLover]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

There must be so many tourist witnesses to the events of that night, including allegedly two women in the Ocean View resort that the RTP "allegedly" took statements from, but I bet those statements never see the light of day at this trial.

[catsanddogs]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

There are so many tourist witnesses to the events of that night, including allegedly two women in the Ocean View resort, that the RTP "allegedly" took statements from, but I bet those statements never see the light of day at this trial.

The French women you mean?

[silverado]

Response i expected, yes there is viable evidence he was is in Bangkok, you seen it, i seen it, the B2 Brigade seen it. I will give you a 24hr Challenge, show me he was not in Bangkok.... i will monitor your progress and remind you. Prediction, you will deflect the challenge, you will run scared and post some illogical words to substantiate why you cannot do this.. clock is ticking

Oh Dear Harry O... I don't need to show you anything. Your clever but I'm better... I don't need to show you or anybody anything as anything that is available to produced is hearsay or possibly fabricated. You show me any evidence that couldn't be challenged and I'll listen.. And will throw it back at you. My clock is ticking on you. Your time is running out in so many ways. And don't bother getting back to me as I won't reply. I'll watch you though as I have been doing and your responses are getting desperate aren't they ! And just for the last time read my post again instead of running off one of your rehearsed answers. Your challenge should you wish to accept. Show me any !! evidence that can't be challenged !! Good luck with that one. And as I said I won't be feeding you be sure of that. I value the input from the upstanding members in here more than I would ever do yours.

Let's see.

There was CCTV footage earlier which, while not clear enough to be completely verified and substantiated, led one of the TOP Police investigators in the country to publicly proclaim that it was NS. However, possibly due to the draconian defamation laws of Thailand, this top police had to withdraw his statement. But hang on, he didn't actually withdraw his statement. All he did was say that there was "evidence" to prove that NS was in Bkk on the morning of the murders. He never actually said that he was mistaken in identifying the suspect in the first instance.

So what does the "evidence" actually proof? That NS was seen walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am? This merely proves (assuming the cctv footage was not doctored) that he was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was not on KT at say, 2 am earlier that day. It is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to Bkk in 5 hours or so, maybe less.

All this is old news to those of us that has been following the thread. But some newbies who has only recently joined TV might not be quite up to speed yet

I agree in your sentence :" it is not beyond the realms of possibility to travel from KT to BKK in 5 hours or so" . But still to this day , we have no observations of him on KT that night, except for the "running man video" which could really be another asian guy.

I have been a defender of Nomsod on this forum, . I believe he was in Bangkok within that time frame , but I am willing to accept that he had time to get to KT , still I look at it as a weak theory and I would give it 10-20% chance that he was there that night based on no observations of him there at all .

But if KT is run by a mafia family that controls everything, they could wipe out all the CCTVs and ask everyone who was on the beach or in the bars there that night to shut their mouth but I do not believe in that theory either.

So that's my personal opinion and Its ok that the majority of the posters here disagree with it.

what do you think then about all the murders/rapes/attacks (also illegal work/ drugs deals/weapons traffic etc) disguised in accidents/suicides in koh Tao ??? how do you think that this kind of '"accidents"/''suicides'' are happening so much more often in koh Tao than everywhere in thailand without legal prosecution ????

[IslandLover]

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

There are so many tourist witnesses to the events of that night, including allegedly two women in the Ocean View resort, that the RTP "allegedly" took statements from, but I bet those statements never see the light of day at this trial.

The French women you mean?

Yes, but there must be others too.

[silverado]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( Hannah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

if they were at ac bar the night of the murders, and if they saw david and anna after 1 am there, i would like to know what they have to tell about.... and what they've said to the police....

[balo]

Fair comment and equally I would agree with what your saying but also there's equally no witnesses to come forward in Bangkok to say he was with them etc on the night/morning of the crime. So while it's possible for either scenario to be valid it's equally puzzling that in both cases there's no witnesses to prove either possibility. That to me is more than a little suspicious. Where ever he was that night he wasn't alone,we all know how sociable Thais are and he was out and about and certainly unlikely to be alone in his room somewhere. But yet nobody has come forward in either location to back up any story. It's almost as if he didn't exist for that evening and turned up early morning, maybe !! In Bangkok. All leaves suspicion to the whole process..

Ok regarding witnesses, we know the teacher and students confirmed he was at UNI (thai media article), but what happened before and after class is more unclear except for the CCTV footage .

But maybe Thai media did not ask the right questions when they had the chance so we never read much about any of his movements in Bangkok and what he did with his friends that day or night . I would expect his class mates to stand up for him . Maybe they did , we just don't know more than gossip from social media , like that his girlfriend did not see him that night. But do they sleep together in the same room normally or she stay with her family maybe? Too many unclear details , simply because the police did not find that part interesting enough. .

If B2 are innocent there's a lot of suspects on that island , and that's the big headache here, unless someone speaks out, this will unfortunately end up as a "cold case".

[silverado]

Fair comment and equally I would agree with what your saying but also there's equally no witnesses to come forward in Bangkok to say he was with them etc on the night/morning of the crime. So while it's possible for either scenario to be valid it's equally puzzling that in both cases there's no witnesses to prove either possibility. That to me is more than a little suspicious. Where ever he was that night he wasn't alone,we all know how sociable Thais are and he was out and about and certainly unlikely to be alone in his room somewhere. But yet nobody has come forward in either location to back up any story. It's almost as if he didn't exist for that evening and turned up early morning, maybe !! In Bangkok. All leaves suspicion to the whole process..

Ok regarding witnesses, we know the teacher and students confirmed he was at UNI (thai media article), but what happened before and after class is more unclear except for the CCTV footage .

But maybe Thai media did not ask the right questions when they had the chance so we never read much about any of his movements in Bangkok and what he did with his friends that day or night . I would expect his class mates to stand up for him . Maybe they did , we just don't know more than gossip from social media , like that his girlfriend did not see him that night. But do they sleep together in the same room normally or she stay with her family maybe? Too many unclear details , simply because the police did not find that part interesting enough. .

If B2 are innocent there's a lot of suspects on that island , and that's the big headache here, unless someone speaks out, this will unfortunately end up as a "cold case".

''gossip from social media , like that his girlfriend did not see him that night. But do they sleep together in the same room normally or she stay with her family maybe?....''

hum the girl friend was in pattaya and posted pic on her fb account that w-e... NOT really stay with her family....

and complaining on the same fb account about his absence regularly

[silverado]

i like this one too much