Australian Embassy refuse to issue my Thai/Australian daughter with a tourist visa using her Thai pa

[sead]

Guess you know now Why you should apply for 2

[realenglish1]

Stop being such a cheap lazy sod. As the other post said Suck it up and get her the Australian Passport and your done. You cannot issue a visa for an Australian The other choice if they have it is include her on your passport if that is the way then do it

Either way be the father that you really should be get off your duff and do it

[p_brownstone]

You might find if you could get a visa it would be close to half the cost of a AU passport, still got to lodge it, leave your car at home and take a nice relaxing bus ride in.

Also one day your daughter may thank you for getting her an AU passport....smile and look into the middle distance its nowhere as bad as you think it is.

She is a Thai citizen, her aussie passport has expired. why pay for 2 passports for a short journey.

Believe it or not a persons Citizenship does not expire when the Passport expires.

Patrick

[Linky]

funny, my kids citizenship is one of those things i didn't let slide.

I let my own citizenship slide. Lived in Oz since I was 4 and only got citizenship when I was 48. Just in time to leave oz permanently 2 months later.

The kids citizenship didnt let slide as they are and always will be citizens of somewhere. Citizenship is not something to be too bothered about. The kids will be citizens of a country, that is enough for them. It will be up to them if they later in life want to get other citizenship.

[chilli42]

I don't know about Australia but a number of countries get seriously upset if you are a citizen of that country and try to enter on another country's passport. I got a 3 hour detention and a stern talking to when I did this to enter the U.S. once (only did it because I had forgotten to bring my US passport along.

P

[kovaltech]

Google :

"An Australian citizen cannot be granted a visa for Australia. "

Very clear it's not possible.

Patric

She is a Thai citizen, her aussie passport has expired. why pay for 2 passports for a short journey.

No she is an aussi citizen if its concerning Australia, she also can enter Australia on an expired pasport...

She then could apply for an new pasport in Australia...

I dont get it... she is having both good things of both the good worlds op and you are complaining ??????

[Linky]

I don't know about Australia but a number of countries get seriously upset if you are a citizen of that country and try to enter on another country's passport. I got a 3 hour detention and a stern talking to when I did this to enter the U.S. once (only did it because I had forgotten to bring my US passport along.

P

ThEy do get annoyed but cannot refuse you entry when it is confirmed you are a citizen. They can talk as sternly as they want but it is not illegal.

When I left Oz one officer also strongly suggested I use the Oz passport so the govt can assist me if I get into difficulty. I strongly suggested the Oz govt does all it can to avoid any such assistance. We agreed to disagree but in the end there was nothing he could do about it.

[Arkady]

Most farang countries won't issue a visa in the foreign passport of one of their citizens. She can renounce Australian citizenship when she reaches the age of majority, if she finds it a nuisance, but something tells me she won't want to do that.

The UK is probably the most liberal and will let its citizens enter the country on a foreign passport but has stopped issuing UK visas for citizens who have a valid UK passport. Until 2007 they used to issue a right of abode stamp in your foreign passport for a fee. But nowadays you have to prove that your UK passport has expired, if you want them to give you a visa. It's probably less trouble to get a new passport.

[samran]

I don't know about Australia but a number of countries get seriously upset if you are a citizen of that country and try to enter on another country's passport. I got a 3 hour detention and a stern talking to when I did this to enter the U.S. once (only did it because I had forgotten to bring my US passport along.

P

ThEy do get annoyed but cannot refuse you entry when it is confirmed you are a citizen. They can talk as sternly as they want but it is not illegal.

When I left Oz one officer also strongly suggested I use the Oz passport so the govt can assist me if I get into difficulty. I strongly suggested the Oz govt does all it can to avoid any such assistance. We agreed to disagree but in the end there was nothing he could do about it.

Difference here is no airline is going to let her board a plane without a visa or proof of australian citizenship. The expired passport probably won't cut it with check in with airlines being risk averse and all.

Sounds like the old man is being a whinging tight arse. I keep mine and my kids australian and Thai passports current at all times. You never know when you need to jump on a plane back at short notice. And it has happened.

[ronrat]

In the future you will find that it would be useful. Many countries allow you to enter without a visa on an Australian passport whereas she can use her Thai passport for ASEAN countries.

[jdlancaster]

The passport is a no brainer.... will last her for a few years... much easier for when emergencies pop up.you never know when you or a family member might pass away or have medical issues. Won't need to get a visa. And I'd imagine the hassle and visa fees could add up after a few years.

[Tomtomtom69]

You are confused.

She is a Thai citizen AND an Australian citizen.

You can not enter Australia on an expired passport, even you can not.

So if you want her to enter Australia on her Thai passport, she needs a visa as she is arriving as a Thai citizen. If you want her to enter Australia on her Australian passport, she does not require a Visa as she is an Australian citizen like you.

Get her passport renewed. Easy

Or provide the correct documentation for her to be granted a Visa on her Thai passport.

She is a Thai citizen, her aussie passport has expired. why pay for 2 passports for a short journey.

"An Australian citizen cannot be granted a visa for Australia. "

Very clear it's not possible.

Patric

Why can't an Australian citizen enter their own country on an expired passport? Nearly every other country allows this. This would be a first if what you're saying is correct. Normally a citizen can enter their own country on an expired document as they have every right to go back home and can't be denied entry to their own country. While it would be better to be in possession of a valid passport, sometimes circumstances are such that you just want or NEED to urgently go home. If someone died or you have a sick family member, urgent meeting at work, whatever, and all you have is an expired document then you don't have time to wait for a new passport. Similarly, you could be in Thailand or whatever country you are in on the last day of your authorized period of stay and need to leave immediately otherwise you will be on overstay and subject to arrest. These are all perfectly good reasons to be allowed to use an expired passport, which of course will only permit entry to your own country (or in the case of European countries, an expired German passport should work for entry to any Schengen member state).

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't know about Australia but a number of countries get seriously upset if you are a citizen of that country and try to enter on another country's passport. I got a 3 hour detention and a stern talking to when I did this to enter the U.S. once (only did it because I had forgotten to bring my US passport along.

P

ThEy do get annoyed but cannot refuse you entry when it is confirmed you are a citizen. They can talk as sternly as they want but it is not illegal.

When I left Oz one officer also strongly suggested I use the Oz passport so the govt can assist me if I get into difficulty. I strongly suggested the Oz govt does all it can to avoid any such assistance. We agreed to disagree but in the end there was nothing he could do about it.

Difference here is no airline is going to let her board a plane without a visa or proof of australian citizenship. The expired passport probably won't cut it with check in with airlines being risk averse and all.

Sounds like the old man is being a whinging tight arse. I keep mine and my kids australian and Thai passports current at all times. You never know when you need to jump on a plane back at short notice. And it has happened.

Why then do members on here constantly state that Thais can enter Thailand on expired documents? Why would Australia be any different? Why would airline officials allow Thais to board an aircraft bound for Thailand if they present an expired Thai passport but not an Aussie doing the same when going to Australia?

If the trip is urgent and solid proof of Australian citizenship can be presented (I would think an expired Australian passport would be proof enough) then I can't see any reason why the traveller would be denied. If they are, I would ask for a supervisor, explain your situation and threaten legal action if you are denied boarding because Aussie citizens can't be denied travel back to their home country.

An Aussie citizen attempting to LEAVE Australia on an expired Aussie passport would most likely be denied exit, but that's a different story. Someone who is returning home to their own country should not be denied that privilege. Australian citizens CAN NOT be refused entry to their own country.

It is better to keep all passports valid BUT sometimes there are circumstances where you forget about this, and not everyone travels often. Some people might stay in one place for like 10 years and then all of a sudden there comes a need for urgent travel. For example, I have three passports and the main reasons I keep them valid is because I travel a lot (mainly in East Asia), where all countries and regions (except Hong Kong) will stamp your passport, resulting in pages being used up very quickly. Not to mention I need to keep my passport valid to legally travel in, or reside in a foreign country such as Thailand. However, I don't keep my European passports valid so much for the purpose of being allowed entry to my home country because I assume that as long as I can furnish proof of my nationality, even my citizen ID card(s) should grant me entry to those countries. A valid passport is a requirement for entering FOREIGN countries, but not to enter your own country.

[Tomtomtom69]

Although an Aussie citizen can NOT be denied entry to their own country, if the trip is not urgent, then there is no reason why the OP can't get his daughter the required valid Aussie passport. Get it and then many headaches will go away.

If the trip is urgent and can NOT be delayed, then bring along proof of citizenship.

Attempting to get a visa in her Thai passport however suggests that the trip is not urgent and thus the OP is being cheap and doesn't understand Australia's immigration rules. While bizarrely, Thai authorities have no problems in treating their own citizens as foreigners by granting them visas in the foreign passports of dual citizens, more advanced countries, while generally recognizing dual citizenship don't allow this nonsense. They require you to enter and exit the country on your national passport and won't issue a visa in a foreign passport.

[johninbkk]

You should check and see if you can renounce your daughter's Australian citizenship. It would make things so much simpler for you and she could then get a visa.

I'm sure she would thank you when she was older.

Dickheads like this is the reason so many decent, intelligent people don't bother with the likes of you and posting on this site.

Don't both to reply, I won't be back to view anything on this page..

[samran]

You are confused.

She is a Thai citizen AND an Australian citizen.

You can not enter Australia on an expired passport, even you can not.

So if you want her to enter Australia on her Thai passport, she needs a visa as she is arriving as a Thai citizen. If you want her to enter Australia on her Australian passport, she does not require a Visa as she is an Australian citizen like you.

Get her passport renewed. Easy

Or provide the correct documentation for her to be granted a Visa on her Thai passport.

She is a Thai citizen, her aussie passport has expired. why pay for 2 passports for a short journey.

"An Australian citizen cannot be granted a visa for Australia. "

Very clear it's not possible.

Patric

Why can't an Australian citizen enter their own country on an expired passport?

Coz, when there airline check in counter looks up the rules, they'll see this. Not that they won't be let in, but with the airline at risk of a huge fine, odds are they simply won't let the person board. Note than in the case of Thailand, it clearly defines expired passports are fine. For Australia, there is no mention of that.

/ 19AUG15 / 1224 UTC

National Australia (AU) /Embarkation Thailand (TH)

Destination Australia (AU)

Australia (AU)

Passport required.

- Passports and other documents accepted for entry must be valid on arrival.

Passport Exemptions:

- Holders of a Document of Identity or a Certificate of Identity issued by Australia.

VISA NOT REQUIRED.

Additional Information:

- Dual nationals of Australia must enter and depart using their Australian passport.

- Passengers traveling on domestic sectors of international flights within Australia For details, click here

Australia (AU)

CHECK TINEWS/N1 - SIMPLIFICATION OF TIMATIC

..............

Edited August 19, 2015 by samran

[samran]

You should check and see if you can renounce your daughter's Australian citizenship. It would make things so much simpler for you and she could then get a visa.

I'm sure she would thank you when she was older.

Dickheads like this is the reason so many decent, intelligent people don't bother with the likes of you and posting on this site.

Don't both to reply, I won't be back to view anything on this page..

Plenty of decent intelligent people have given you an answer.

Don't spit the dummy cause you don't like what you are being told.

[Donutz]

I'd get the passport... Surely other trips to Oz or other countries will be made in the future so it will be worth the money?

Or if you want to be a cheap charly (why????), is an Ozzie ID card (Australian Document of Identity?) cheaper? Use that to enter Oz.

[bobrussell]

Not an Australian but assuming things are similar to the UK:

Australians cannot lose citizenship if it leaves them stateless (same in the UK) so extreme criminality can lead to the loss in dual nationals. The only exception seems to be for those joining a foreign army fighting Australia. Your daughter is therefore Australian and cannot be granted a visa.

A passport will last a heck of a lot longer than a visa so offer better value (if the decision is based on cost).

An Australian passport will open many doors and allow many other countries to be visited.

My wife still struggles with the idea that she can travel freely around much of the world with minimal fuss!

[Old Croc]

A couple of points:
There are almost no circumstance where Immigration will stop anyone departing Australia, even if they are behaving like a prat and refusing to produce their Oz passport. The Migration Act covers the entry and stay of non-citizens. Airlines may refuse to uplift a departing pax if there are concerns about documentation and of course Federal Police might arrest you if they have good reason.

To enter Australia you need to have a valid passport and a visa if a non-citizen. Citizens can't be refused entry to their own country nor is there provision for them to get a visa. However, they will have to convince the airline to uplift them first, as airlines may be subject to fines for undocumented pax.
If you do arrive without a current passport, your citizenship will need to be proven. An expired passport is not sufficient proof on it's own as the citizenship may have been revoked. The person will be interviewed and checks made. This may take time depending on work loads.

There is no provision to add children to Australian passports.

[Jaggg88]

Google :

"An Australian citizen cannot be granted a visa for Australia. "

Very clear it's not possible.

Patric

She is a Thai citizen, her aussie passport has expired. why pay for 2 passports for a short journey.

She's also an Australian citizen so cannot be issued with a visa. Its the same for returning/visiting Thai citizens with dual nationality - Thai immigration will not issue a visa. However, if you have an expired Australian passport that will prove citizenship for entry in to Australia. The airlines usually panic when you show them the expired passport but after checking they let you board. My Thai wife did this returning to Thailand for an extended holiday. The problem is I don't think you can leave with an expired passport - you need to check. My wife was told to renew hers before leaving.

[Jaggg88]

If she is an Australian citizen she doesn't need a visa (or a passport) to enter Australia.

She does need to prove citizenship - the airline won't let her board without proof of citizenship. This is usually done with a valid or expired passport or an emergency travel document issued by the embassy.

[RasiMike]

I agree with the OP - it's expensive, inconvenient and a hassle.

But for my family, this passport for these countries and that passport for those, is worth the effort. I have dual citizen kids and have travelled to and fro with them many times for holidays and (most importantly) emergency travel - IMHO it isn't TOO expensive, TOO inconvenient nor TOO much of a hassle given the alternatives.

[AlexRRR]

Google :

"An Australian citizen cannot be granted a visa for Australia. "

Very clear it's not possible.

Patric

She is a Thai citizen, her aussie passport has expired. why pay for 2 passports for a short journey.

Because an Aussie passport opens more doors and the visa to enter will cost around half the cost of a passport, not to mention when she's older she may want to go to AU, and it will be god dam easy for her, you have a narrow view based on your pocket.