Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'

[lostoday]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

And Thailand could bring back jousting as a tourist attraction for their new feudal society.

[oval]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

uninformed and uneducated post, so you prefer military juntas huh? western democracy ain't perfect but it's the best we got

Yes, the best we've got.

Why do we insist on pressuring other countries to adopt our models of goverence? Oh of course, it's because our systems are better.

I am glad there are countries different to ours, and I love Thailand, despite it's flaws. If I felt otherwise I'd go home.

[Yunla]

The things that sustain true democracy are things like reliable regulation, watchdog agencies and similar state safety-devices, things that monitor the system from within and above. Being elected a leader in a democracy is a great honour. You hold the finances and health and lives of normal working communities in your hand. It is a highly virtuous calling. Strict regulations are essential to catch the leaders who abuse this great honour they've been given, zero-tolerance regulations and reliable watchdogs must catch these crooks swiftly and the legal system must hand down truly ferocious prison sentences for any abuses of authority.

Democracy itself meant "public debate" if you go back to the very origins, it relates to a citizens *duty* to attend public debates and be a vocal part of society. In Athenian Democracy, a person not attending public debates was considered a failed citizen, and an idiot. Obviously that was a long time ago, and democracy has evolved, but this public speaking is still essential for democratic health. In some places, this is only possible with strict regulations, due to fiery rhetoric which can cause healthy public debate to turn into civil conflict. So even at the core of modern democracy, the free debate, we are faced with the critical importance of strict regulations, safety mechanisms and watchdogs, to keep the show on the road.

When those strict regulations are in place, and being monitored by multiple reliable watchdog agencies, there is no reason at all why Thailand cannot have a full healthy democracy. As the OP says, the corruption is what is stopping these regulatory frameworks from being securely implemented, and will probably take a long time to establish. There has to be zero-tolerance for misbehaviour, and an atmosphere of great honour and respect for the office of elected politician, these positions need to be protected by strong laws and observed constantly by keen-eyed regulatory agencies.

[LannaGuy]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

uninformed and uneducated post, so you prefer military juntas huh? western democracy ain't perfect but it's the best we got

Yes, the best we've got.

Why do we insist on pressuring other countries to adopt our models of goverence? Oh of course, it's because our systems are better.

I am glad there are countries different to ours, and I love Thailand, despite it's flaws. If I felt otherwise I'd go home.

Glad you admit it's the best system, despite its flaws, unless you know of one better? I love Thailand too and I loved it before it became a military censored even more. There have been 22 coups as the old elite dinosaurs attempt to hold off democracy but you can't stop paradigm shift.

Many in South Africa said as you before democracy, and in East Germany, India and many other countries. THANK GOD the west does have democracy and millions have died fighting for it. Be very careful what you wish for.

Edited August 27, 2015 by LannaGuy

[Seastallion]

They just go round and round don't they! Always BS, never lock anything in with cement. Democracy can work if the laws are written right in the first place.

Written right AND enforced without exception, prevarication, or deliberate misinterpretation.

That's all it will take, plus an emphasis on educating and empowering the citizens to be the watchdogs.

[huangnon]

Root of the problem is wrong doers are never punished and until that happens expect those in power to continue to abuse their positions and self enrich themselves. Thus don't expect any improvement any time soon. In essence Thailand is not ready for democracy.

You could be talking about the supposed paragons of Democracy, the US with those first two sentences.

[baboon]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

uninformed and uneducated post, so you prefer military juntas huh? western democracy ain't perfect but it's the best we got

Yes, the best we've got.

Why do we insist on pressuring other countries to adopt our models of goverence? Oh of course, it's because our systems are better.

I am glad there are countries different to ours, and I love Thailand, despite it's flaws. If I felt otherwise I'd go home.

Hmm. Another one who has no time for the West and its values, but hangs on to the passport and social security entitlement card nevertheless, I suspect.

[lostoday]

The things that sustain true democracy are things like reliable regulation, watchdog agencies and similar state safety-devices, things that monitor the system from within and above. Being elected a leader in a democracy is a great honour. You hold the finances and health and lives of normal working communities in your hand. It is a highly virtuous calling. Strict regulations are essential to catch the leaders who abuse this great honour they've been given, zero-tolerance regulations and reliable watchdogs must catch these crooks swiftly and the legal system must hand down truly ferocious prison sentences for any abuses of authority.

Democracy itself meant "public debate" if you go back to the very origins, it relates to a citizens *duty* to attend public debates and be a vocal part of society. In Athenian Democracy, a person not attending public debates was considered a failed citizen, and an idiot. Obviously that was a long time ago, and democracy has evolved, but this public speaking is still essential for democratic health. In some places, this is only possible with strict regulations, due to fiery rhetoric which can cause healthy public debate to turn into civil conflict. So even at the core of modern democracy, the free debate, we are faced with the critical importance of strict regulations, safety mechanisms and watchdogs, to keep the show on the road.

When those strict regulations are in place, and being monitored by multiple reliable watchdog agencies, there is no reason at all why Thailand cannot have a full healthy democracy. As the OP says, the corruption is what is stopping these regulatory frameworks from being securely implemented, and will probably take a long time to establish. There has to be zero-tolerance for misbehaviour, and an atmosphere of great honour and respect for the office of elected politician, these positions need to be protected by strong laws and observed constantly by keen-eyed regulatory agencies.

Try reading about the American revolution. None of those things you are talking about. They colonies had elections for their leaders first. That is the important thing. Give the people a voice. American Independence 1776 first constitution 1787, first President 1789. The first representative assembly in English America convened in Jamestown's church July 30, 1619.

[jerojero]

You mean Thailand is not fit for full fledged democracy!

[Seastallion]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

uninformed and uneducated post, so you prefer military juntas huh? western democracy ain't perfect but it's the best we got

The problem is, that the problems are systemic, and it will take a firm, unfettered hand to clean up the systemic and traditional problems before power can be given to the people.

A truly altruistic, non-partisan dictator is what is needed to clean things up before handing over to the nation. I'm not saying the current situation meets that description....but it could if only it could see that that is the way forward.

[AlQaholic]

Thailand did have a full fledged democracy (maybe, at least pretty close) in 1932, after that it just degenerated....

[Roadman]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not...reason why I have stepped back from political debate on this site and happily watch the good general getting on with opening the corrupt countries' mouth and jamming down a brand new medicine however bitter and different, as nothing else has to date corrected the low morality of the country's leaders and power bases and more so try to defuse or disable the patronage system especially starting in all levels of politics and governance that is at the front of the countries problem.

I'm a Junta fanboy, only as it is a better short term option that what was before, I am an admirer of Khun Prayuth for having the balls to undertake what he has, but am intelligent enough to know that Thailand was a basket case that was heading for the cess pit under the Shinawatra's and comes nowhere close to the democratic paradise of New Zealand that I was blessed to be born into. Its a hundred times worse than my home country. But then I am not there to abuse the place and its people and am happily set into thai family life which is the values I want above a barstool and paying barfines.

So I can disagree cause I see Thailand's needs something and it ain't just another reset for more of what it has ever had to date including the inept democrats, the more criminal and democratic less Thaksin, nor the bumbling generals. The only thing putting the generals back to the golf course will do is allow the inept and criminal political scumbags back in to continue raping and pillaging the place at the ever increasing rate that was occurring.

From the comments in the OP"s article what is being proposed and being gradually implemented is a different medicine and different approach by the Thai's. No democracies are the same and what works for some would not for others. Take two western democracies like New Zealand and the USA and while they are both built on the basic principles of democracy they are nothing like each other. New Zealanders would not tolerate the corruption and garbage of American politics, yet it works for America. And that is the key here for the Thai's. Build something that recognises the issues that exist with the potential for development of that system as it evolves. At least this current lot have the intelligence to recognise if one just keeps on churning out the same old garbage, without going to the root cause of the garbage stink, then nothing is going to change.

Will what is being propsed here work? Who knows. Without attacking patronage and enforcing law then probably not. But then those are also items on the agenda that are gradually being reformed. So possibly it might. One thing is for sure. Its different, its attacking the real stink in the country (one only has to listen to the criminal politicians bleating) and at least its trying to find solutions.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Roadman

[reggaebkk]

"Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'"

That's funny to think about it when it is now clear that there is no democracy in the west, only the dictature of bank cartels using the media to marshmallow the brain of the greater majority... That's unfit for Thailand and unfit for every other country, no need to debate about this... it'd be like wondering: "is cancer good for me?". .

[lostoday]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not...reason why I have stepped back from political debate on this site and happily watch the good general getting on with opening the corrupt countries' mouth and jamming down a brand new medicine however bitter and different, as nothing else has to date corrected the low morality of the country's leaders and power bases and more so try to defuse or disable the patronage system especially starting in all levels of politics and governance that is at the front of the countries problem.

I'm a Junta fanboy, only as it is a better short term option that what was before, I am an admirer of Khun Prayuth for having the balls to undertake what he has, but am intelligent enough to know that Thailand was a basket case that was heading for the cess pit under the Shinawatra's and comes nowhere close to the democratic paradise of New Zealand that I was blessed to be born into. Its a hundred times worse than my home country. But then I am not there to abuse the place and its people.

So I can disagree cause I see Thailand's needs something and it ain't just another reset for more of what it has ever had to date including the inept democrats, the more criminal and democratic less Thaksin, nor the bumbling generals. The only thing putting the generals back to the golf course will do is allow the inept and criminal political scumbags back in to continue raping and pillaging the place at the ever increasing rate that was occurring.

From the comments in the OP"s article what is being proposed and being gradually implemented is a different medicine and different approach by the Thai's. No democracies are the same and what works for some would not for others. Take two western democracies like New Zealand and the USA and while they are both built on the basic principles of democracy they are nothing like each other. New Zealanders would not tolerate the corruption and garbage of American politics, yet it works for America. And that is the key here for the Thai's. Build something that recognises the issues that exist with the potential for development of that system as it evolves. At least this current lot have the intelligence to recognise if one just keeps on churning out the same old garbage, without going to the root cause of the garbage stink, then nothing is going to change.

Will what is being propsed here work? Who knows. Without attacking patronage and enforcing law then probably not. But then those are also items on the agenda that are gradually being reformed. So possibly it might. One thing is for sure. Its different, its attacking the real stink in the country (one only has to listen to the criminal politicians bleating) and at least its trying to find solutions.

All democracies have one thing in common. Leaders appointed by voting of the people.

[teacherpaul]

I think the first sentence needs changing; "Thailand is unfit for Western-inspired democracy" is far more appropriate.

There, that's better.

[lostoday]

I think the first sentence needs changing; "Thailand is unfit for Western-inspired democracy" is far more appropriate.

There, that's better.

The majority of Thai people would not agree with you. The minority would.

[klauskunkel]

In actuality Thailand needs western elements in the way the country is governed, what else could they blame when things go wrong...certainly not Thainess!

[Yunla]

Try reading about the American revolution. None of those things you are talking about. They colonies had elections for their leaders first. That is the important thing. Give the people a voice. American Independence 1776 first constitution 1787, first President 1789. The first representative assembly in English America convened in Jamestown's church July 30, 1619.

I would say that the American political system today is a shining example of why multiple external watchdog agencies, strict accountability, and the dangers of straying from core democratic precepts, are so important in a democracy. And the dangers of allowing leaders to sail uncharted seas without anybody telling them "no."

[lostoday]

In actuality Thailand needs western elements in the way the country is governed, what else could they blame when things go wrong...certainly not Thainess!

Thais blame the other party when they are allowed to talk.

[rubl]

What they really mean is

"the party which wins government is never the one we, the elite rich, want because we cannot control the people and get the returns WE and our rich families deserve"

so

"let's forget democracy and do it 'Thai Style' which means we'll fix it so WE get what we were born for - more and more power, money and control"

I mean "it's for the good of the people who are unfit to govern right?"

Absolutely! Even Thaksin would agree with you

[JAG]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not...reason why I have stepped back from political debate on this site and happily watch the good general getting on with opening the corrupt countries' mouth and jamming down a brand new medicine however bitter and different, as nothing else has to date corrected the low morality of the country's leaders and power bases and more so try to defuse or disable the patronage system especially starting in all levels of politics and governance that is at the front of the countries problem.

I'm a Junta fanboy, only as it is a better short term option that what was before, I am an admirer of Khun Prayuth for having the balls to undertake what he has, but am intelligent enough to know that Thailand was a basket case that was heading for the cess pit under the Shinawatra's and comes nowhere close to the democratic paradise of New Zealand that I was blessed to be born into. Its a hundred times worse than my home country. But then I am not there to abuse the place and its people.

So I can disagree cause I see Thailand's needs something and it ain't just another reset for more of what it has ever had to date including the inept democrats, the more criminal and democratic less Thaksin, nor the bumbling generals. The only thing putting the generals back to the golf course will do is allow the inept and criminal political scumbags back in to continue raping and pillaging the place at the ever increasing rate that was occurring.

From the comments in the OP"s article what is being proposed and being gradually implemented is a different medicine and different approach by the Thai's. No democracies are the same and what works for some would not for others. Take two western democracies like New Zealand and the USA and while they are both built on the basic principles of democracy they are nothing like each other. New Zealanders would not tolerate the corruption and garbage of American politics, yet it works for America. And that is the key here for the Thai's. Build something that recognises the issues that exist with the potential for development of that system as it evolves. At least this current lot have the intelligence to recognise if one just keeps on churning out the same old garbage, without going to the root cause of the garbage stink, then nothing is going to change.

Will what is being propsed here work? Who knows. Without attacking patronage and enforcing law then probably not. But then those are also items on the agenda that are gradually being reformed. So possibly it might. One thing is for sure. Its different, its attacking the real stink in the country (one only has to listen to the criminal politicians bleating) and at least its trying to find solutions.

All democracies have one thing in common. Leaders appointed by voting of the people.

Moreover they are removed by the voting of the people. All of them. Edited August 27, 2015 by JAG

[Roadman]

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, it's the controlling elite of the country from all sides who are not ready to lose their grip and control over their minions, if the Military stopped interfering and went back to running the country's golf courses sorry providing defence to the country, trimmed down their over inflated list of Generals, who all need backhanders, sorry salaries, Thailand might actually start being allowed to move into the 21st century.

It's always the Junta fanbois who keep stating that Thailand isn't ready for any sort of democracy, and yet they whined and bitch about this, but still decided that whatever Thailand has/had to offer, it's a hundred times better than their home countries yes? ... I highly doubt this for one minute!!

Thailand isn't ready? Yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not...reason why I have stepped back from political debate on this site and happily watch the good general getting on with opening the corrupt countries' mouth and jamming down a brand new medicine however bitter and different, as nothing else has to date corrected the low morality of the country's leaders and power bases and more so try to defuse or disable the patronage system especially starting in all levels of politics and governance that is at the front of the countries problem.

I'm a Junta fanboy, only as it is a better short term option that what was before, I am an admirer of Khun Prayuth for having the balls to undertake what he has, but am intelligent enough to know that Thailand was a basket case that was heading for the cess pit under the Shinawatra's and comes nowhere close to the democratic paradise of New Zealand that I was blessed to be born into. Its a hundred times worse than my home country. But then I am not there to abuse the place and its people.

So I can disagree cause I see Thailand's needs something and it ain't just another reset for more of what it has ever had to date including the inept democrats, the more criminal and democratic less Thaksin, nor the bumbling generals. The only thing putting the generals back to the golf course will do is allow the inept and criminal political scumbags back in to continue raping and pillaging the place at the ever increasing rate that was occurring.

From the comments in the OP"s article what is being proposed and being gradually implemented is a different medicine and different approach by the Thai's. No democracies are the same and what works for some would not for others. Take two western democracies like New Zealand and the USA and while they are both built on the basic principles of democracy they are nothing like each other. New Zealanders would not tolerate the corruption and garbage of American politics, yet it works for America. And that is the key here for the Thai's. Build something that recognises the issues that exist with the potential for development of that system as it evolves. At least this current lot have the intelligence to recognise if one just keeps on churning out the same old garbage, without going to the root cause of the garbage stink, then nothing is going to change.

Will what is being propsed here work? Who knows. Without attacking patronage and enforcing law then probably not. But then those are also items on the agenda that are gradually being reformed. So possibly it might. One thing is for sure. Its different, its attacking the real stink in the country (one only has to listen to the criminal politicians bleating) and at least its trying to find solutions.

All democracies have one thing in common. Leaders appointed by voting of the people.

And all successful democracies are built on more of the pillar stones of democracy than just an election. One of the very first democratic principles that Thailand fails dismally on is "rule of law". Another that especially the political leaders with their mafia families and patronage systems fail on is empathy (morality, equality etc) for others.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Roadman

[cumgranosalum]

"Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand' along with a spherical planet, the laws of gravity, E=mc2, etc etc....

[rubl]

Democracy is overrated.

England, Australia, the USA - all democracies, all overregulated nanny states where inequality is increasing, the government follows the will of big business, and it's boring.

Democracy? Meh.

uninformed and uneducated post, so you prefer military juntas huh? western democracy ain't perfect but it's the best we got

A few interesting posters have told me proportional representation as part of the draft charter doesn't work in Thailand. It would seem some of those against anything the NCPO does agree with the chairman of the CDC.

[jlwilliamsjr18]

There is no form of democracy fit for Thailand. The country's history is riddled with reasons. It will never happen, sadly...it's become a country at war with itself. What it is is what it is.

[MZurf]

Yeah John, listen to the monkey. You can't criticize Thaksin's sycophants because Suthep ...............exists?

Hey, halloween. Good to have you back! Too bad you time off hasn't improved the quality of your posts, though.

The point I was actually making (and I know you find this hard to comprehend) is that Suthep is a key player in the group/faction that is currently in power so when John English, you, and the other cheerleaders do your perpetual Thaksin rants you're just a bunch of hypocrites.

There are new snouts in the trough, but they're definitively in the trough.

[rjcampbe]

Full-fledged western-inspired democracy 'unfit for Thailand'

Uh... No.

I am fairly certain that this should read "Thailand is unfit for full-fledged western inspired democracy."

[ddavidovsky]

Power disparity is too great. The right-wing have played a powerful game for a long time and have all the institutions that matter in its grip. Democracy struggles in that scenario, as we have seen.

All this talk is pointless. Just wait. History is slow sometimes, but it always happens.

[lostoday]

All democracies have one thing in common. Leaders appointed by voting of the people.

And all successful democracies are built on more of the pillar stones of democracy than just an election. One of the very first democratic principles that Thailand fails dismally on is "rule of law". Another that especially the political leaders with their mafia families and patronage systems fail on is empathy (morality, equality etc) for others.

No they aren't. Name one democracy that does not appoint leaders by election of the people? For example Singapore is not a democracy but has a rule of law. You are wrong.

[Always18]

Yes, it's bad enough if we "inflict" democracy on the Thai people but it's infinitely worse if we allow them to choose it for themselves.........................