filing late US income taxes? Help!?

[globalance]

Dear Fellow US ExPats here in Thailand. I am filing a late tax return for 2013 and I'm seeking a "US tax" knowledgeable person to hire for a 30 consultation. Its really as easy as it gets....but I'm a right-brained artist type and this stuff makes me crazy. I'm filing a "Schedule C-EZ" form but I don't where to place my $595 SS tax on the form....nor the 25% late filing fee. My income was so low that I don't have to pay any tax at all but I do want to pay my social security tax.....and the late fee.... if its necessary!

If anyone out there knows of a US tax expert (doesn't really need to be an honest to goodness "expert") please ask them to contact me here to set up a phone appointment ASAP! Thanks in advance for any help coming! Rollee, Buri Ram. Thursday August 27th

[BKKSnowBird]

Did you file for 2014? There is a list of accountants on the embassy website. Seems the going rate is is about 5k/hour.

[Smokin Joe]

There are no late fees or penalties for filing late as long as you don't owe any tax.

[globalance]

Smokin Joe! Are you sure about this man??? I do not owe any taxes at all because I earned less that the $8,000 plus standard deduction.......but I was thinking that the social security tax that I want to pay to increase my SS "Units" would come under the 25% penalty (5% per month that maxes out at 25%) plus the $135 minimum fee for late filing!!! If what you say is really true..... its FANTASTIC NEWS!

Please reassure me on this! Do you have personal experience with this as being factual? I really want to get this right the first time around. and the 5K per hour fee that Mr. BKK Snow Bird quoted me is way over my budget! Ha ha! Please do let me know!!! Thanks, Rollee

[Smokin Joe]

Smokin Joe! Are you sure about this man??? I do not owe any taxes at all because I earned less that the $8,000 plus standard deduction.......but I was thinking that the social security tax that I want to pay to increase my SS "Units" would come under the 25% penalty (5% per month that maxes out at 25%) plus the $135 minimum fee for late filing!!! If what you say is really true..... its FANTASTIC NEWS!

Please reassure me on this! Do you have personal experience with this as being factual? I really want to get this right the first time around. and the 5K per hour fee that Mr. BKK Snow Bird quoted me is way over my budget! Ha ha! Please do let me know!!! Thanks, Rollee

I don't know about the SS part but I have twice filed federal tax returns that were way past the Apr 15th deadline. One time I filed two years at the same time. I even called the IRS about filing a year late and they confirmed that as long as I didn't owe anything (I was due a refund each time) there were no penalties.

When I called the IRS they wouldn't come right out and say that it was OK to file late. They used phrases like "we encourage" or "prefer" everyone to file on time but any penalties are directly tied to any tax you owe. So if you owe no tax then there are no penalties.

[globalance]

Dear Smoking Joe......thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my questions TWICE!!! I really appreciate it buddy! However, the SS part is the only part I'm concerned about. I just want to file the dang stuff and then get credited with the SS payment asap! I think I'll take the chance and just file it without any penalties included.....and see what happens. The worst is that they will send me a bill for the penalties if there are any! Thanks again SJ!!! Rollee

[gk10002000]

If you want to Pay SS, then I am very sure you must fill out a full 1040 Long form. Sure most of the stuff will be blank, but when filing other Schedules the 1040 is pretty much mandatory. If you did C-EZ correctly, then you will file I believe Form SE (Self Employment). That is where you can get credit and pay into Social Security. I understand you are saying you make less than what is required to file a tax return. However, as soon as you start doing any other type of tax forms beyond a simple W-2 you pretty much have to use the 1040. But I think you know that if you got as far as knowing about filing a Schedul C

I can't speak to any penalties for late SS payments. While I have done late taxes once or twice, I have never been late on SSA stuff because I have always put into SSA via standard W-2s and wage deductions so I am not familiar with what the penalties are.

[BKKSnowBird]

Are you short your 40 quarters?

Paying SS tax on $8000 is not going to increase your PIA by much.

I used TaxAct for free to file when I was in Thailand. It is very easy.

Edited August 29, 2015 by BKKSnowBird

[JimGant]

As gk says, you have to file a Form 1040 even tho' you don't owe any income tax (not to be confused with the self employment tax you *do* owe). Why? Because if you have more than $400 in self-employed net income, you're required to file a 1040:

You have to file an income tax return ... if your net earnings from self-employment were $400 or more. (Pub 334 "Tax Guide for Small Businesses")

Makes sense -- because if you net at least $400, that's the threshold for when you're required to pay self employment tax. And the IRS likes to see that neat package of Form 1040, with attached Schedule C (or C-EZ) and Schedule SE. Also, the IRS needs this package before it can verify taxes paid, then send the data to the Social Security folks.

So, prepare your 1040 package, which shouldn't be too daunting, then send it in with your payment of $595 for SE taxes. Don't try to figure the penalty due, as you're not required to -- and they just might overlook it since they seem to be a little understaffed these days. But probably not, so expect a bill for $148.75 (595 x .25).

[JimGant]

I'm filing a "Schedule C-EZ" form but I don't where to place my $595 SS tax on the form....nor the 25% late filing fee.

You don't use the Sched C for figuring your SE tax. This is done on Schedule SE, and unless you're a minister, you should be able to use the short version, which only has a few lines to fill out -- the data of which is from your Schedule C-EZ. And neither the Sched C or Sched SE have line items for penalty owed.

According to working backwards on a Sched SE, your net self employment income was $4,211:

Line 2 and 3: $4,211

Line 4: $3,888.85 (4211 x .9235)

Line 5: $595 (3888.85 x .153)

So, indeed, you do have reportable income on your Form 1040 -- but it will only be your SE tax. So total owed on your 1040 will only be $595 (assuming $4,211 was your self employment income....?). Again, recommend you don't figure the penalty yourself, but let the IRS chew on that.

[globalance]

I just want to say "thanks tons" to all you folks who have helped me out with this!!! I really, really, REALLY appreciate it so very much!!!! You have together clarified the fuzzy areas that I was uncertain about!!! Good On You All, Rollee, in Buri Ram

[gk10002000]

I just want to say "thanks tons" to all you folks who have helped me out with this!!! I really, really, REALLY appreciate it so very much!!!! You have together clarified the fuzzy areas that I was uncertain about!!! Good On You All, Rollee, in Buri Ram

Happy to oblige. And you can see that JimGant was much better at the SS stuff than I was. I was a backup tax advisor once and over the years have done a fair amount of investment stuff with the associated forms. I can only get you in the ball park. Nowadays, since I have been contracting, I keep things simple because I often work in multiple states in a single year, and the simpler my Fed 1040 is, the simpler the State Forms will be. One year I had to file in 3 states! Pain in the keester. I don't even itemize since I just rent. However many of my friends that are contractors are self-employed, and some of them go 1099 versus W-2, so I have some idea of how they pay into SS, how they do their own SEP, etc. Luckily I have been able to go with Contracting agencies that have a 401k available so I have stayed on W-2s for simplicity.