Invoice numbering

[kaffeburk]

Is this a correct summary about the matter?

(1) VAT invoices are not true invoices, its just a bad translation of "ใบแจ้งหนี้ / ใบกำกับภาษี". In reality its a VAT-receipts that must be produced and given to the customer every time a payment of any kind is performed on a TRUE invoice.

(2) A VAT invoice will "emulate" a true invoice in regard to that articles, prices etc will be specified.

(3) The number series for outgoing (customer) VAT invoice will be provided by Thai authorities every month. The same goes for incoming VAT invoices from suppliers.

(4) Normal (True) invoices must have their own number series that will not be provided by Thai authorities.

(5) To a normal (True) invoice there can be any number of VAT invoice's depending of how many payments was received. One VAT invoice for every payment.

(6) The VAT invoice is always produced after the payment is made, never before (preferably direct after).

[lazygourmet]

Prime numbers played

[h90]

Out invoices have our numbers (not provided by Thai authorities. We have no other paper with other numbers.

But the numbers must be continuously......101, 102, 103, 104, etc

[Gulfsailor]

Our company issues a commercial invoice before the sale. After payment the receipt is issued. Both have a number system designed in-house to easily identify date and customer. However the last digits are a continuous rising number, so one can't remove issued receipts or invoices from accounting. Our registered accountant, auditor and RD accepted this system.

[h90]

Our company issues a commercial invoice before the sale. After payment the receipt is issued. Both have a number system designed in-house to easily identify date and customer. However the last digits are a continuous rising number, so one can't remove issued receipts or invoices from accounting. Our registered accountant, auditor and RD accepted this system.

Additional the company who issues the invoice and the customer company must have their tax number on the invoice and that "Headquarter" or "Branch 01" etc.

[p_brownstone]

There is really no such thing, officially, as a "VAT Receipt" - the Document which records VAT is the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

Please see :

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6043.0.html

in particular Section 6 "Tax Invoice".

In addition look at Section 5 "Time of Supply" :

Quote :

The time of supply of goods or services is important because it determines when a registered person should account for VAT. The time of supply will be determined as follows:

5.1 Goods

5.1.1 General goods, the earliest of :

• • the time of delivery; or
  • when ownership of goods is transferred; or
  • a payment is made; or
  • a tax invoice is issued.

Unquote:

Your Accountant should report to the Revenue Department all sale transactions (recorded on an Invoice / Tax Invoice) no later than the 15th of the following month and submit payment of all VAT you have charged to your Customers - less any amounts you have paid to suppliers against their Invoice / Tax Invoice they have given to you.

The date you receive payment from your Customer is completely irrelevant - the Revenue Department does not care if you give a Customer 6 months Credit, or have agreed with the Customer that he will pay in installments ............. or even if you never get paid at all; your Company is required to pay the full VAT on the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the month following the date of the Invoice / Tax Invoice as already mentioned.

All Invoice/Tax Invoices must have sequential numbers and if you are using a Computer program it must be one approved by the Revenue Department.

Patrick

Edited August 30, 2015 by p_brownstone

[kaffeburk]

First, as i understand it yes, there is no such thing officially as "VAT receipt" its officially called "VAT invoice" but in reality (in English vocabulary, in function) it is a receipt, not an invoice?


The rest not sure I understand. Lets take a case:

(1) An order is accepted.
(2) A "normal" invoice is produced that states production will start when deposit is payed.
(3) Deposit is payed.

(4) A "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?
(5) The production is completed.
(6) A new "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?
(7) The products and ownership is transferred to the customer.

Should i interpret this as when the money is paid it must be reported as that day (two days, two times) or not until ownership is transferred? Your example is when the merchandise precedes the payment, mine is the opposite, the payment precedes the handover (ownership) of the merchandise.

There is really no such thing, officially, as a "VAT Receipt" - the Document which records VAT is the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

Please see :

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6043.0.html

in particular Section 6 "Tax Invoice".

In addition look at Section 5 "Time of Supply" :

Quote :

The time of supply of goods or services is important because it determines when a registered person should account for VAT. The time of supply will be determined as follows:

5.1 Goods

5.1.1 General goods, the earliest of :

• • the time of delivery; or
  • when ownership of goods is transferred; or
  • a payment is made; or
  • a tax invoice is issued.

Unquote:

Your Accountant should report to the Revenue Department all sale transactions (recorded on an Invoice / Tax Invoice) no later than the 15th of the following month and submit payment of all VAT you have charged to your Customers - less any amounts you have paid to suppliers against their Invoice / Tax Invoice they have given to you.

The date you receive payment from your Customer is completely irrelevant - the Revenue Department does not care if you give a Customer 6 months Credit, or have agreed with the Customer that he will pay in installments ............. or even if you never get paid at all; your Company is required to pay the full VAT on the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the month following the date of the Invoice / Tax Invoice as already mentioned.

All Invoice/Tax Invoices must have sequential numbers and if you are using a Computer program it must be one approved by the Revenue Department.

Patrick

[kaffeburk]

I also find this confusing "6 TAXINVOICE VAT registered person or entity is required to issue tax invoices every time the transactions are made ". The exact definition of "transaction" is not explained.

Is every payment before the delivery a transaction or is only the delivery regarded as an transaction where a tax-invoice must be issued?

[kaffeburk]

TYPO (sorry)

Should i interpret this as when the money is paid it must be reported a taxinvoice created as of that day (two days, two times) or not until ownership is transferred? Your example is when the merchandise precedes the payment, mine is the opposite, the payment precedes the handover (ownership) of the merchandise.

[p_brownstone]

First, as i understand it yes, there is no such thing officially as "VAT receipt" its officially called "VAT invoice" but in reality (in English vocabulary, in function) it is a receipt, not an invoice?

The rest not sure I understand. Lets take a case:

(1) An order is accepted.

(2) A "normal" invoice is produced that states production will start when deposit is payed.

(3) Deposit is payed.

(4) A "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?

(5) The production is completed.

(6) A new "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?

(7) The products and ownership is transferred to the customer.

Should i interpret this as when the money is paid it must be reported as that day (two days, two times) or not until ownership is transferred? Your example is when the merchandise precedes the payment, mine is the opposite, the payment precedes the handover (ownership) of the merchandise.

There is really no such thing, officially, as a "VAT Receipt" - the Document which records VAT is the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

Please see :

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6043.0.html

in particular Section 6 "Tax Invoice".

In addition look at Section 5 "Time of Supply" :

Quote :

The time of supply of goods or services is important because it determines when a registered person should account for VAT. The time of supply will be determined as follows:

5.1 Goods

5.1.1 General goods, the earliest of :

• • the time of delivery; or
  • when ownership of goods is transferred; or
  • a payment is made; or
  • a tax invoice is issued.

Unquote:

Your Accountant should report to the Revenue Department all sale transactions (recorded on an Invoice / Tax Invoice) no later than the 15th of the following month and submit payment of all VAT you have charged to your Customers - less any amounts you have paid to suppliers against their Invoice / Tax Invoice they have given to you.

The date you receive payment from your Customer is completely irrelevant - the Revenue Department does not care if you give a Customer 6 months Credit, or have agreed with the Customer that he will pay in installments ............. or even if you never get paid at all; your Company is required to pay the full VAT on the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the month following the date of the Invoice / Tax Invoice as already mentioned.

All Invoice/Tax Invoices must have sequential numbers and if you are using a Computer program it must be one approved by the Revenue Department.

Patrick

To explain the procedure in the case you outline :

1) An Order is accepted.

2) You issue an Invoice / Tax Invoice for the required Deposit - and report the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month, paying them the VAT shown on the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

3) Deposit is paid and you issue a Receipt.

4) Production is completed.

5) You Deliver the equipment to your Customer together with an Invoice / Tax Invoice for the balance of the Order (total Order less Deposit already received), report the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month and pay the VAT shown on the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

6) The Customer pays for the balance of his Order and you issue a Receipt.

There is no need for a document you call a "Normal Invoice" anywhere in the process.

There are only 2 documents involved - Invoice / Tax Invoice and Receipt (and maybe a Delivery Order or some such Document which your Customer should sign and return to you on acceptance of the equipment for your own internal records).

Hope this is understandable but if you need clarification on any point just let me know.

Patrick

[kaffeburk]

First, as i understand it yes, there is no such thing officially as "VAT receipt" its officially called "VAT invoice" but in reality (in English vocabulary, in function) it is a receipt, not an invoice?

The rest not sure I understand. Lets take a case:

(1) An order is accepted.

(2) A "normal" invoice is produced that states production will start when deposit is payed.

(3) Deposit is payed.

(4) A "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?

(5) The production is completed.

(6) A new "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?

(7) The products and ownership is transferred to the customer.

Should i interpret this as when the money is paid it must be reported as that day (two days, two times) or not until ownership is transferred? Your example is when the merchandise precedes the payment, mine is the opposite, the payment precedes the handover (ownership) of the merchandise.

There is really no such thing, officially, as a "VAT Receipt" - the Document which records VAT is the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

Please see :

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6043.0.html

in particular Section 6 "Tax Invoice".

In addition look at Section 5 "Time of Supply" :

Quote :

The time of supply of goods or services is important because it determines when a registered person should account for VAT. The time of supply will be determined as follows:

5.1 Goods

5.1.1 General goods, the earliest of :

• • the time of delivery; or
  • when ownership of goods is transferred; or
  • a payment is made; or
  • a tax invoice is issued.

Unquote:

Your Accountant should report to the Revenue Department all sale transactions (recorded on an Invoice / Tax Invoice) no later than the 15th of the following month and submit payment of all VAT you have charged to your Customers - less any amounts you have paid to suppliers against their Invoice / Tax Invoice they have given to you.

The date you receive payment from your Customer is completely irrelevant - the Revenue Department does not care if you give a Customer 6 months Credit, or have agreed with the Customer that he will pay in installments ............. or even if you never get paid at all; your Company is required to pay the full VAT on the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the month following the date of the Invoice / Tax Invoice as already mentioned.

All Invoice/Tax Invoices must have sequential numbers and if you are using a Computer program it must be one approved by the Revenue Department.

Patrick

To explain the procedure in the case you outline :

1) An Order is accepted.

2) You issue an Invoice / Tax Invoice for the required Deposit - and report the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month, paying them the VAT shown on the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

3) Deposit is paid and you issue a Receipt.

4) Production is completed.

5) You Deliver the equipment to your Customer together with an Invoice / Tax Invoice for the balance of the Order (total Order less Deposit already received), report the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month and pay the VAT shown on the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

6) The Customer pays for the balance of his Order and you issue a Receipt.

There is no need for a document you call a "Normal Invoice" anywhere in the process.

There are only 2 documents involved - Invoice / Tax Invoice and Receipt (and maybe a Delivery Order or some such Document which your Customer should sign and return to you on acceptance of the equipment for your own internal records).

Hope this is understandable but if you need clarification on any point just let me know.

Patrick

Thankyou and hello again,

Yes its a bit more clear, but:

(1) is the "transaction" referring to the actual payment of the deposit or to the creation of the tax-invoice?

(2) The deliver/transfer of ownership will not take place until full payment is completed. Does that change anything?

(3) What happens with the first vat-invoice if the deposit never get paid and the order is cancelled?

(4) Yo write "There is no need for a document you call a "Normal Invoice" anywhere in the process." Why not? Some kind of commercial document issued by a seller to a buyer including payment terms must be produced and that is normally called invoice. Should then a separate contract be created when the term is "occupied". You cant make the agreement after the initial deposit payment is finalized.

[p_brownstone]

First, as i understand it yes, there is no such thing officially as "VAT receipt" its officially called "VAT invoice" but in reality (in English vocabulary, in function) it is a receipt, not an invoice?

The rest not sure I understand. Lets take a case:

(1) An order is accepted.

(2) A "normal" invoice is produced that states production will start when deposit is payed.

(3) Deposit is payed.

(4) A "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?

(5) The production is completed.

(6) A new "vat invoice" for that payment is produced?

(7) The products and ownership is transferred to the customer.

Should i interpret this as when the money is paid it must be reported as that day (two days, two times) or not until ownership is transferred? Your example is when the merchandise precedes the payment, mine is the opposite, the payment precedes the handover (ownership) of the merchandise.

There is really no such thing, officially, as a "VAT Receipt" - the Document which records VAT is the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

Please see :

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6043.0.html

in particular Section 6 "Tax Invoice".

In addition look at Section 5 "Time of Supply" :

Quote :

The time of supply of goods or services is important because it determines when a registered person should account for VAT. The time of supply will be determined as follows:

5.1 Goods

5.1.1 General goods, the earliest of :

• • the time of delivery; or
  • when ownership of goods is transferred; or
  • a payment is made; or
  • a tax invoice is issued.

Unquote:

Your Accountant should report to the Revenue Department all sale transactions (recorded on an Invoice / Tax Invoice) no later than the 15th of the following month and submit payment of all VAT you have charged to your Customers - less any amounts you have paid to suppliers against their Invoice / Tax Invoice they have given to you.

The date you receive payment from your Customer is completely irrelevant - the Revenue Department does not care if you give a Customer 6 months Credit, or have agreed with the Customer that he will pay in installments ............. or even if you never get paid at all; your Company is required to pay the full VAT on the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the month following the date of the Invoice / Tax Invoice as already mentioned.

All Invoice/Tax Invoices must have sequential numbers and if you are using a Computer program it must be one approved by the Revenue Department.

Patrick

To explain the procedure in the case you outline :

1) An Order is accepted.

2) You issue an Invoice / Tax Invoice for the required Deposit - and report the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month, paying them the VAT shown on the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

3) Deposit is paid and you issue a Receipt.

4) Production is completed.

5) You Deliver the equipment to your Customer together with an Invoice / Tax Invoice for the balance of the Order (total Order less Deposit already received), report the transaction to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month and pay the VAT shown on the Invoice / Tax Invoice.

6) The Customer pays for the balance of his Order and you issue a Receipt.

There is no need for a document you call a "Normal Invoice" anywhere in the process.

There are only 2 documents involved - Invoice / Tax Invoice and Receipt (and maybe a Delivery Order or some such Document which your Customer should sign and return to you on acceptance of the equipment for your own internal records).

Hope this is understandable but if you need clarification on any point just let me know.

Patrick

Thankyou and hello again,

Yes its a bit more clear, but:

(1) is the "transaction" referring to the actual payment of the deposit or to the creation of the tax-invoice?

(2) The deliver/transfer of ownership will not take place until full payment is completed. Does that change anything?

(3) What happens with the first vat-invoice if the deposit never get paid and the order is cancelled?

(4) Yo write "There is no need for a document you call a "Normal Invoice" anywhere in the process." Why not? Some kind of commercial document issued by a seller to a buyer including payment terms must be produced and that is normally called invoice. Should then a separate contract be created when the term is "occupied". You cant make the agreement after the initial deposit payment is finalized.

Let's go back a little before I reply to your specific questions.

In your "Case" above you start at a point where :

"1) An Order is accepted"

So I responded starting at that same point and detailed the documents required and when the transaction should be reported to the Revenue Department after that point.

However, other things must happen before that point is reached!

1) You cannot accept an Order until your Customer issues one

and

2) Your Customer cannot issue an Order until he has full information on your Products - price for example - and other details such as Delivery Time, Payment Terms etc..

So: when your Customer contacts you, you give him all this information in a Quotation (NOT an Invoice ..... "Normal" or of any other description). A Quotation is a Commercial document but is of no interest to the Revenue Department, and never enters your Company Accounts - you may issue hundreds of Quotations a month and only a percentage will result in an Order being given by the Customer.

So when a potential Customer approaches your Company and is interested in your Product the first thing you do is prepare a Quotation addressed to him, this can be a prepared Form or just an Email, in which you would say, for example.

Quote

Thank you for your Enquiry, we are pleased to offer as follows :

20 Units Carrier Airconditioner Model XXXXX, 25,000 BTU

Price : Baht XXXXX per set - price does NOT include VAT

Delivery : 6 - 8 weeks after receipt of Order and Deposit

Payment : 50% Deposit with Order

50% Balance 30 days after delivery

Price Validity : 30 days from the date of this Quotation

Unquote

Once the Customer receives this he can decide whether or not to place an Order; if he does then you follow the procedure I detailed earlier after "1) An Order is accepted".

To answer you other questions:

1) "Transaction" refers to the issue of an Invoice / Tax Invoice.

2) When there are 2 or more payments agreed upon between you and the Customer only the final payment is "Transfer of Ownership", all earlier payments - Deposits, whatever, fall under the heading of "payment made".

3) If the Customer changes his mind after the Invoice / Tax Invoice has been issued by you, you simply create a Credit Note which reverses all the details on the original Invoice / Tax Invoice and submit that to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month and the VAT you already paid on the original Invoice will be Credited to your Account with them.

However if the Customer refuses to pay the final Invoice after he has received the equipment you cannot claim a refund from the Revenue Department - as I said earlier, they don't care if you don't get paid for goods delivered - the only recourse you have is via the Courts.

Patrick

(Sorry for Quoting all the earlier Posts by the way - I can't figure out how to delete a few!)

Edited August 30, 2015 by p_brownstone

[kaffeburk]

Let's go back a little before I reply to your specific questions.

In your "Case" above you start at a point where :

"1) An Order is accepted"

So I responded starting at that same point and detailed the documents required and when the transaction should be reported to the Revenue Department after that point.

However, other things must happen before that point is reached!

1) You cannot accept an Order until your Customer issues one

and

2) Your Customer cannot issue an Order until he has full information on your Products - price for example - and other details such as Delivery Time, Payment Terms etc..

So: when your Customer contacts you, you give him all this information in a Quotation (NOT an Invoice ..... "Normal" or of any other description). A Quotation is a Commercial document but is of no interest to the Revenue Department, and never enters your Company Accounts - you may issue hundreds of Quotations a month and only a percentage will result in an Order being given by the Customer.

So when a potential Customer approaches your Company and is interested in your Product the first thing you do is prepare a Quotation addressed to him, this can be a prepared Form or just an Email, in which you would say, for example.

Quote

Thank you for your Enquiry, we are pleased to offer as follows :

20 Units Carrier Airconditioner Model XXXXX, 25,000 BTU

Price : Baht XXXXX per set - price does NOT include VAT

Delivery : 6 - 8 weeks after receipt of Order and Deposit

Payment : 50% Deposit with Order

50% Balance 30 days after delivery

Price Validity : 30 days from the date of this Quotation

Unquote

Once the Customer receives this he can decide whether or not to place an Order; if he does then you follow the procedure I detailed earlier after "1) An Order is accepted".

To answer you other questions:

1) "Transaction" refers to the issue of an Invoice / Tax Invoice.

2) When there are 2 or more payments agreed upon between you and the Customer only the final payment is "Transfer of Ownership", all earlier payments - Deposits, whatever, fall under the heading of "payment made".

3) If the Customer changes his mind after the Invoice / Tax Invoice has been issued by you, you simply create a Credit Note which reverses all the details on the original Invoice / Tax Invoice and submit that to the Revenue Department by the 15th of the following month and the VAT you already paid on the original Invoice will be Credited to your Account with them.

However if the Customer refuses to pay the final Invoice after he has received the equipment you cannot claim a refund from the Revenue Department - as I said earlier, they don't care if you don't get paid for goods delivered - the only recourse you have is via the Courts.

Patrick

(Sorry for Quoting all the earlier Posts by the way - I can't figure out how to delete a few!)

Ok the first step is "Offer and acceptance", or as You call it "Quotation". Then the customer send an order. Lets just clear the definitions:

(1) An invoice is a request for payment.
(2) A receipt is a confirmation of a payment.
(3) A "vat invoice" is a confirmation of either a payment or the transfer of ownership, what ever comes first?

In order to receive a payment you first have to request the payment and that is done by a invoice. Perhaps its possible to do that without an invoice but would it be practical? If you not want to use an invoice to inform your customer of the payment he have to do, what will you use instead?