Pope Francis a stranger to the US in many ways

[webfact]

Pope Francis a stranger to the US in many ways
By RACHEL ZOLL

NEW YORK (AP) — When Pope Francis sets foot on the tarmac at Andrews Air Force Base near Washington on Sept. 22, it won't just be his first time in the United States as pontiff. It will be his first time in the country — ever in his life.

The former Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina, never followed the footsteps of so many fellow Roman Catholic leaders of his rank, who sought to raise their profiles, along with funds for missions back home, by networking within the deeply influential and well-resourced U.S. church.

This gap in his resume can be explained in part by Francis' personality. He was a homebody who loathed being away and felt a profound obligation to stay near the people of his archdiocese. He also famously opposed ladder-climbing, condemning what he called "airport bishops" who spend more time traveling for their own prestige or pleasure than serving their flock.

Still, Francis' lack of firsthand experience of the U.S. stands out for many, especially those struggling to absorb his unsparing critique of the excesses of global capitalism and wondering whether this first Latin American pope harbors resentment over the history of U.S. policies in his native region.

"This trip to the United States will be the most difficult, the most challenging, and the most interesting because he's exploring a world that for him is more foreign than Asia, than the Philippines," where Francis traveled last January, said Massimo Faggioli, an expert in church history at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota. "It's not just a language barrier. It's a cultural barrier."

Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, an Argentine and one of Francis' key advisers at the Vatican, said he was aware of but disputed the perception that the pope disliked the United States. Francis' view that a global economic system focused on maximizing profits was destroying the poor and the environment has landed hard in a country considered the world headquarters for capitalism.

Sanchez Sorondo insisted Francis is not anti-capitalist and said the pope admires America for the principles of the Founding Fathers, who influenced the independence movement in his native Argentina. But Francis' outlook is also shaped by another history, including U.S. ties with Latin American dictators, America's treatment of Mexican and Central American immigrants, and longstanding U.S. policy toward Cuba, Sanchez Sorondo said. Francis recently helped negotiate a historic thaw in U.S.-Cuba relations that has led to restored diplomatic ties between the countries.

"I don't think the pope has anything against America," Sanchez Sorondo said in an interview in Rome. "What the pope might have is that he felt the repercussions of America in Latin America."

This is utterly new ground as well for American Catholics, accustomed to Francis' immediate predecessors, Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who both lived through World War II, when Americans were considered liberators and generous benefactors who rebuilt the war-ravaged continent.

When John Paul was Cardinal Karol Wojtyla, archbishop of Krakow, Poland, he traveled extensively in the U.S., especially among American Polish communities. As pope, he found broad common ground with Americans in the fight against communism.

Benedict, the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger from Germany, had been John Paul's guardian of doctrine for more than two decades, and not only visited the U.S., but also met with American church leaders regularly in Rome. In 2008, on Benedict's sole visit to the U.S. as pontiff, he greeted President George W. Bush at the White House, where the pope ended his remarks with the phrase, "God Bless America." That sign-off was taken by many Europeans and others as a stunning nod to the idea of American exceptionalism, Faggioli said.

"Pope Francis — his cultural roots, his formation — is completely different," Faggioli said.

Among those experiences was the 2001 Argentine economic crisis, which sparked riots, soaring unemployment and a quick succession of presidents as the government struggled to handle its massive debts. Bergoglio was intimately involved in trying to help Argentines and their leaders emerge from the turmoil, which many blamed on free-market policies promoted by the U.S.

Yet, that collapse could have easily compelled Bergoglio to finally visit America. It is common for overseas leaders to send a local cardinal as an informal emissary to "make sure that people in Washington, and the U.S. bishops, understood the impact," of America's policies abroad, said the Rev. Thomas Reese, a senior analyst with the National Catholic Reporter newspaper and author of "Inside the Vatican."

But that role would have been unthinkable for Bergoglio. He had very tense relations with much of the Argentine ruling class, often challenging them bluntly in national forums to abandon partisan self-interest and do more for the vulnerable and disadvantaged.

"It wasn't like he could get together with them, and say, 'OK, this is our strategy. Let's go lobby Washington on these things.' They often weren't on speaking terms with one another," Reese said.

However, Francis' belief about what it meant to be a faithful churchman was likely the biggest factor keeping him from the U.S., church experts say.

Like all Jesuits, Bergoglio vowed he would not seek higher ecclesial office. He is the first Jesuit in the 481-year history of the religious order to become pope. His 1992 appointment as a Buenos Aires auxiliary bishop came as a shock — for him and for Argentine Catholics, most of whom had never heard of him, according to Austen Ivereigh, author of "The Greater Reformer: Francis and the Making of a Radical Pope."

Dubbed the "slum pope" for his dedication to the poor, he spent much of his time as archbishop in the shantytowns of Buenos Aires. Vacations generally meant staying in his church apartment and reading — just like he did on his Rome vacation this summer.

He didn't much like to be abroad. In the 1980s, when Bergoglio was sent to Germany for a few months for doctoral studies, he grew so homesick that he spent some nights watching planes take off from the airport for Argentina, Ivereigh wrote.

"It's not at all surprising to me that he hasn't been here," said the Rev. Matt Malone, editor-in-chief of the Jesuit magazine America, based in New York. "His whole life has been devoted to the people of Argentina and South America."

In a July question-and-answer session with reporters, Francis said he would spend the weeks ahead of his U.S. visit "studying" for the trip. In the past, he had expressed some unease with the English language, but he has given well-delivered — and well-received — speeches in English on two different trips, in South Korea and during his Sri Lanka-Philippines pilgrimage earlier this year. In America, he will be making remarks both in English and Spanish.

His introduction to the U.S. will begin in Washington, where he will address a joint meeting of Congress on Sept. 24, followed by an address to the U.N. General Assembly in New York, and outdoor Mass at the World Meeting of Families in Philadelphia.

But he will start the journey earlier and somewhere much more familiar, in Cuba, where from Sept. 19 to 22 he will mark the country's new era with the U.S., then travel directly here.

"Francis' heart is in the Third World and the Global South, but he has a way of proclaiming the Gospel that's very attractive to people in the United States," Reese said. "I think there will be an overwhelming response from the American people to him. I think they will be charmed by him."
____

Associated Press reporter Nicole Winfield contributed to this report from Rome.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-08-31

[NeverSure]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

[Usernames]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

Not much different than Communism.

[hard124get]

The US neocons don't like Pope Frank as he has exposed their very un-Christian ways.

[stevenl]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

The present pope is doing exactly that: standing up for the poor gut, like he has done his whole life.

[Johpa]

I am hoping for an hour long televised conversation between Pope Frances and the most influential Catholic in the US, Steven Colbert.

[oxo1947]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

What's up Never sure-----don't you believe in the odd miracle ....??

According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Palestine.

A country when I visited there in the 70s, all the people are named Abdul, Mounir, Aziz, Ahmed, Farid, Omar, Mohammed ,Youssouf, Mouloud, etc. etc

And yet his Dad was named Joe & his mother Mary

--He also managed to find 12 friends called John, Peter, Paul, James, Philip, Mark, Thomas, Luke, Matthew, Andrew and Simon . . . who all sat around & drank wine!

Now that's gotta be a miracle!....................................

[Bakseeda]

My wife has got 12 friends who sit around all day and drink wine.... When I pay for it..!

[wirat69]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

What's up Never sure-----don't you believe in the odd miracle ....??

According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Palestine.

A country when I visited there in the 70s, all the people are named Abdul, Mounir, Aziz, Ahmed, Farid, Omar, Mohammed ,Youssouf, Mouloud, etc. etc

And yet his Dad was named Joe & his mother Mary

--He also managed to find 12 friends called John, Peter, Paul, James, Philip, Mark, Thomas, Luke, Matthew, Andrew and Simon . . . who all sat around & drank wine!

Now that's gotta be a miracle!....................................

... ummmmm were names like Abdul, Mounir, Aziz, Ahmed, Farid, Omar, Mohammed ,Youssouf, Mouloud, etc. etc around 2,000 odd years ago, given that the Prophet Mohammed lived around 14-1500 years ago???

[Thaidream]

Normally, I would agree that the Catholic Church or any Church actually doesn't do much for the World's poor. However, I believe Pope Francis is an exception. His criticism of the United State as the seat of materialistic capitalism is correct. the United States also exports this philosophy to the World including Thailand. In the United States, the gap between the top earners in the country and those on the lower end is appalling. No one cares about poor people in the United States. During the Bush and Obama administrations the number of poor have increased considerably. At least Pope Francis is condemning those actions by governments that perpetuate the wealthy at the expense of the poor. How many bankers in the United States have been indicted or gone to jail for the economic meltdown during the past. Banks provided mortgages to people knowing they could not afford them and knowing they would repossess these properties. At the same time, they were making billions though the process of bundling and by selling these loans around the World. Millions of Americans lost their homes and the banks got richer and then they were bailed out by Bush/Obama and their henchmen over bad loans. This is just one of the things the Pope has been outspoken about. I hope he gives Obama an earful but it won't matter because all American politicians are tools of the wealthy. And the strange thing is the Donald Trump, apparently popular among certain Americans, is an example of greed at its worst.

[Merzik]

The US neocons don't like Pope Frank as he has exposed their very un-Christian ways.

The NeoCons are overwhelmingly Jewish Zionists; but you are correct that they are very un-Christian . The roots of the NeoCons go back to the followers of Leon Trotsky

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j061303.html

Edited August 31, 2015 by Merzik

[lockman]

Normally, I would agree that the Catholic Church or any Church actually doesn't do much for the World's poor. However, I believe Pope Francis is an exception. His criticism of the United State as the seat of materialistic capitalism is correct. the United States also exports this philosophy to the World including Thailand. In the United States, the gap between the top earners in the country and those on the lower end is appalling. No one cares about poor people in the United States. During the Bush and Obama administrations the number of poor have increased considerably. At least Pope Francis is condemning those actions by governments that perpetuate the wealthy at the expense of the poor. How many bankers in the United States have been indicted or gone to jail for the economic meltdown during the past. Banks provided mortgages to people knowing they could not afford them and knowing they would repossess these properties. At the same time, they were making billions though the process of bundling and by selling these loans around the World. Millions of Americans lost their homes and the banks got richer and then they were bailed out by Bush/Obama and their henchmen over bad loans. This is just one of the things the Pope has been outspoken about. I hope he gives Obama an earful but it won't matter because all American politicians are tools of the wealthy. And the strange thing is the Donald Trump, apparently popular among certain Americans, is an example of greed at its worst.

Very true about the banks giving loans to people who couldn't afford to repay, as government misuse caused that.

[arjunadawn]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

Not much different than Communism.

This goes to what I was about to post. The pope is effectively a stranger to the US because even after 7 years of Obama at al communism remains effectively alien to most people in the US. Sure, the touchy feely socialist elements that take the brutality off communism have made European socialist like inroads into the US, but by and large most Americans viscerally real at the blatant, repugnant comments of the pope, chavaz, castro, obama, morales ilk. After all, it is the same bolt of the militant socialist playbook; some mix theology, other death squads and disappearances, but its effectively all the same.

The pope is a stranger to the US because the pope is a stranger to the Natural Rights of Humanity, believing rights devolve from his 3rd in a line of dead and rising gods, from Ahura Mazda to Horus. Or, alternately, from a god who stole the attributes of the trinity from Bhrama, Vishnu, and Shiva- the trimurti. Basically, theft and plagiarism of the most unseemly type. (You cant make this stuff up. A Hollywood script could not conceive such wanton usurpation and theft). America rails because the pope represents all that is wrong in the world today; well, at least the pretense of the flip side to islamic jihad. The pope is not a light. The pope is a divider, a temporal political agitator with his eyes set on crowns, not halos. The pope is the fruition of a very long and intricately laid assault upon both the church and western civilization.

[Credo]

Pope Francis, and he is a good man, can criticize the US system when he starts getting rid of the vast amounts of wealth, power and influence that the Catholic Church wields.

There are a lot of poor countries that are predominantly Catholic where he may start.

[chilli42]

I have a very difficult time to not admire, respect and wish to see this man succeede. If you can put aside your bias on God, religion and the Catholic Church, you see a man that is taking a ballsy stand on the poor, the ravages of uncontrolled capitalism, peace with the "enemy" the environment, reform within his own calcified organization etc. He does this as a religious leader, so no, he does not need to be realistic but he does need to be high minded. He also must manage this agenda amongst the mine field of people who hate what he says and hate what he represents ... all of them deadly powerful. To me the man is a hero ... he is the first global leader ever (OK maybe the Dalai Lama) religious or otherwise to take a stand on and try to do something about the most pressing issues facing humanity today. So you can piss away about the history of the Catholic Church and whether religion and God have a place in the world but I encourage you to stand back and look at the man, what he trying to accomplish and what he is up against in doing this and tell me this is not a man who you would not wish to see succeede.

[Baerboxer]

I have a very difficult time to not admire, respect and wish to see this man succeede. If you can put aside your bias on God, religion and the Catholic Church, you see a man that is taking a ballsy stand on the poor, the ravages of uncontrolled capitalism, peace with the "enemy" the environment, reform within his own calcified organization etc. He does this as a religious leader, so no, he does not need to be realistic but he does need to be high minded. He also must manage this agenda amongst the mine field of people who hate what he says and hate what he represents ... all of them deadly powerful. To me the man is a hero ... he is the first global leader ever (OK maybe the Dalai Lama) religious or otherwise to take a stand on and try to do something about the most pressing issues facing humanity today. So you can piss away about the history of the Catholic Church and whether religion and God have a place in the world but I encourage you to stand back and look at the man, what he trying to accomplish and what he is up against in doing this and tell me this is not a man who you would not wish to see succeede.

His he really trying to accomplish great things for the poor, reducing poverty, improving the lot of the common man? Or is he trying to strengthen and expand the power, control and influence of the Catholic church?

Clue - he's a Jesuit.

[NeverSure]

This Pope isn't doing anything for the poor. That's like me claiming that you don't do anything for the poor while criticizing your income and job wealth. Meanwhile I'm not about to do anything about my excess money that I actually got from the poor.

The Pope is a raving lunatic hypocrite. What is the Catholic Church if not capitalist? It sure isn't a vow of poverty for itself. It's a vow of poverty for the masses.

And BTW it bothers me to see people who lived in a prosperous country complain about the capitalism that made it prosperous. It seems they can't see that the really poor people live where there isn't capitalism. Go and move to The Philippines where there's Catholicism and be poor. Try Ukraine, Russia, North Korea, Cuba... That's where there really is a 1%.

Cheers.

[MZurf]

The US neocons don't like Pope Frank as he has exposed their very un-Christian ways.

True. Some of the most hypocritical people on the planet are the Christian right in the US.

[Thaidream]

There is a difference between Capitalism and materialistic Capitalism and Caveat Emptor. The United States runs on the latter. However, I grew up on the former- where a visit to a doctor was within the grasp of even the lower class; where a college education was affordable; where a father could take his family to a sporting event without breaking his budget; where business treated its customers as if they really cared .This was replaced by the Capitalism we have now- where the average person cannot afford a doctor; where education runs into a hundred thousand dollars; where a trip to Disneyland is over $100 per person; In addition, the American minimum wage in most states is so low it is not even considered a living wage; CEO's in major companies make 200 times what their lower wage employees make and the working poor continue to be taxed while the wealthy avoid taxation. If Pope Francis can use his pulpit to address these inequities , which should have been addressed by a whole succession of American Presidents, he will accomplished his mission. No one is asking for a return of the money. We're asking simply stop stealing it.

[55Jay]

The pope talks smack without any first hand knowledge or experience.

The most common advice from "the world" to America is:

1. Our business is none of your business. Butt out!

2. Fix your own problems first.

That's good advice for this uppity little bastard.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[Muzarella]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

What's up Never sure-----don't you believe in the odd miracle ....??

According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Palestine.

A country when I visited there in the 70s, all the people are named Abdul, Mounir, Aziz, Ahmed, Farid, Omar, Mohammed ,Youssouf, Mouloud, etc. etc

And yet his Dad was named Joe & his mother Mary

--He also managed to find 12 friends called John, Peter, Paul, James, Philip, Mark, Thomas, Luke, Matthew, Andrew and Simon . . . who all sat around & drank wine!

Now that's gotta be a miracle!....................................

A real miracle!..specially because Jesus was studying to be a Rabbi during his teenager days, and during his "revolt"..he was named INRI

Ieshua of Nazareth Reid of Israel

[MW72]

Who gives a shit what the Pope thinks? I've never seen another entity that could keep people so poor while getting itself so rich. Poverty stricken people in Mexico and S. America and even Italy struggle while in just about every small area there is an edifice called a Catholic Church that the people somehow paid for.

When the Pope gives up his private jet and luxury accommodations and gives all of the church's excesses to the poor, maybe he'll be worth listening to. In the meantime he's the biggest hypocrite on planet earth.

Catholicism is an economic trap that keeps millions of people enslaved, but the church in Rome is rich beyond belief all the while protesting against "capitalism". The Catholic church is no example to anyone. End of.

You have a polarising effect on me NS. I either agree or disagree with you and there isn't much middle ground. On this subject i couldn't agree more.

[MW72]

There is a difference between Capitalism and materialistic Capitalism and Caveat Emptor. The United States runs on the latter. However, I grew up on the former- where a visit to a doctor was within the grasp of even the lower class; where a college education was affordable; where a father could take his family to a sporting event without breaking his budget; where business treated its customers as if they really cared .This was replaced by the Capitalism we have now- where the average person cannot afford a doctor; where education runs into a hundred thousand dollars; where a trip to Disneyland is over $100 per person; In addition, the American minimum wage in most states is so low it is not even considered a living wage; CEO's in major companies make 200 times what their lower wage employees make and the working poor continue to be taxed while the wealthy avoid taxation. If Pope Francis can use his pulpit to address these inequities , which should have been addressed by a whole succession of American Presidents, he will accomplished his mission. No one is asking for a return of the money. We're asking simply stop stealing it.

A very sensible post imho. Capitalism is not bad. It is the type of capitalism that is the problem. The USA has some socialism. The type where the big banks get government support at the tax payers expense. It's time for real capitalism where the market decides the price of wages, goods and services and not governments. Governments tend to mess stuff up and become corrupt. Just like the church.