4WD vs 2WD

[Jitar]

Everybody their choice, but this is Thailand.

I chose a 2wd when I changed rides, previous one was 4wd. Since I hardly ever really felt the need for 4ed. Yes, I have missed it, maybe 3 times in 3+ years. IMO not worth the extra expense.

I completely agree - in the case of a pickup, where 4x4 is for off-road use only, you better think long and hard if you really need it - otherwise it's just adding 'dead weight', literally.

In the case of cars with full time 4WD / AWD that's a different story though. For these, you have to weigh up whether the safety benefits are worth the extra initial cost, extra fuel usage, and extra insurance cost.

Again, looking at this video and considering the less experienced/capable drivers that might be piloting my cars, I'd be prepared to spend the extra on AWD: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/853053-i-hope-u-appreciate-my-driving-skills/

IMHOn, can you outline the 4wd systems used in the current pickups and suv's here? Is the 4wd version found in the new pjs/everest useable on tarmac? How about the ranger?

There are basically 3 different systems available on TH market pickups and PPV's:

Electronically controlled 2H/4H/4L - All pickups, Fortuner, MU-X, and Trailblazer:

Basic 4x4 systems suitable only for off-road use. On paved roads, these 4H and 4L modes are dangerous - both to the car (mechanical stresses) and to the occupants (forces traction loss).

Mitsubishi Super Select II - Pajero Sport GT-Premium:

A more advanced version of the above, with a Torsen limited slip in the transfer case, allowing it be used as a full-time 4WD if desired, suitable for use on pavement. Normal power split is 40% : 60% rear, with the ability to lock the centre diff and split power 50:50 (4HLc / 4LLc modes).

Ford Terrain Command - Everest 3.2L Titanium and Titanium+:

A much more advanced system that is permanent All Wheel Drive. Normal power split is 40:60, but the system is capable of sending over 90% of the available power to front or rear as needed. This system also has different mode selections that control not only the power split, but also throttle responsiveness, the traction control system, and the AT shift patterns. As an example, when driving in mud you don't actually want a slipping wheel to stop spinning as it impedes momentum - but on loose rocks/gravel you sure do want a low-traction wheel to stop it spinning, so you're not spraying the side of your car with rocks - the Everest's system has different modes for these different scenarios. It also has the ability to lock the centre diff 50:50, making it perform the same as the above 2 systems if desired.

The previous PJS Super Select system used a planetary center diff with viscous coupling. Did the new model change to a Torsen diff?

The last generation Fortuner used a torsen center diff.

Either of these are much better than their 2WD relatives on sealed roads if conditions are anything less than ideal, especially for the models without stability control.

Running the 4WD PJS in 2WD saves virtually no fuel. The Auto front axle disconnect Mitsu, Ford and Toyota use cut drive to one half shaft but the opposite side still rotates the diff center with no load.

Any body know if the Everest uses the Borg Warner Torque on Demand transfer case like the US Ford AWD's?

[IMHO]

Toyota Vigo 4x4 handbook states you can use 4x4 on WET, icy or snow covered roads to provide better traction. I have done the WET roads thing in 4x4 for 8 years now.The Vigo has a mechanical engagement to operate the front axle.

Are you sure it says that?

I just located the owners manual for your basic vintage of Hilux here: https://toyotamanuals.com.au/document/landing_page/hilux-owners-manual-mar-08-jul-08

and it says this about H4, on page 105:

Use this for driving only on tracks that permit the tires to slide, like off-road, icy or snow covered roads.

Edited September 4, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

The previous PJS Super Select system used a planetary center diff with viscous coupling. Did the new model change to a Torsen diff?

Apparently so:

Source: http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.th/all-new-pajero-sport/

[IMHO]

Toyota Vigo 4x4 handbook states you can use 4x4 on WET, icy or snow covered roads to provide better traction. I have done the WET roads thing in 4x4 for 8 years now.The Vigo has a mechanical engagement to operate the front axle.

Are you sure it says that?

I just located the owners manual for your basic vintage of Hilux here: https://toyotamanuals.com.au/document/landing_page/hilux-owners-manual-mar-08-jul-08

and it says this about H4, on page 105:

Use this for driving only on tracks that permit the tires to slide, like off-road, icy or snow covered roads.

I am absolutely sure...I double checked my English hand book before I posted.....

Page 93...........I can post it.......

Are you sure you didn't get a dodgy translation mate?

[Jitar]

The previous PJS Super Select system used a planetary center diff with viscous coupling. Did the new model change to a Torsen diff?

Apparently so:

Screen Shot 2015-09-04 at 17.21.49.png

Source: http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.th/all-new-pajero-sport/

Doh.... Should have checked the hidden english bit in the brochure

[IMHO]

Here ya go...........

Scan-001.jpg

I still reckon that's a bad translation - no center diff = forced loss of traction on a grippy surface, it's just physics.

What year/month is it? - with that we can easily find the Aussie manual, with proper/checked English I guess

[IMHO]

Here ya go...........

Scan-001.jpg

I still reckon that's a bad translation - no center diff = forced loss of traction on a grippy surface, it's just physics.

What year/month is it? - with that we can easily find the Aussie manual, with proper/checked English I guess

Weeeeeell, as someone that has driven the thing for 8 years, I can tell you in H4 on a dry road it is a no no, on a wet road it is great, l believe cos the water under tyre acts "like" a lubricant...Best way I can describe it.. The ride is Aug 2007..

Sorry to say, but the Aussie version still says the same thing: https://toyotamanuals.com.au/docs/hilux-owners-manual-jul-07-feb-08/

I hope your luck continues mate

[MESmith]

I still reckon that's a bad translation - no center diff = forced loss of traction on a grippy surface, it's just physics.

What year/month is it? - with that we can easily find the Aussie manual, with proper/checked English I guess

Weeeeeell, as someone that has driven the thing for 8 years, I can tell you in H4 on a dry road it is a no no, on a wet road it is great, l believe cos the water under tyre acts "like" a lubricant...Best way I can describe it.. The ride is Aug 2007..

Sorry to say, but the Aussie version still says the same thing: https://toyotamanuals.com.au/docs/hilux-owners-manual-jul-07-feb-08/

I hope your luck continues mate

Lucky I have a Thai version eh..........

Maybe the 4WD doesn't actually work, hence no "buggered" truck

[1BADDAT]

A 4wd trasmission is more expensive to fix ... but nothing else on the car. I have been driving for 45 years now and never had a problem with a 4 or 2 wd transmission. In my view what you have been told is a half truth and it likely will never matter. I would never own a vehicle in my home country (Canada) without 4wd. Here in Thailand, not so sure it matters unless you are in the back of beyond on mud roads and if that is the case best add a power winch to the 4wd. In Thailand mostly 4wd is a marketing play ... slap a 4wd logo on the vehicle and it looks more butch .... will you ever use it .... likely not.

There is no difference between the transmission between a 2wd and 4wd vehicle in most cases. The transfer case is what is added to the vehicle to make it 4wd.

[cumgranosalum]

Unless you drive on a beach in sand or go off

Roading frequently, can't see any reason the

Average driver would even want 4WD??

Other than rain and thai roads..

I think one of the things about 4WD is knowing where and when to use it....many 4WD owners don't really consider this and the result is it never gets used......but they get through anyway.....so they don't find out how much easier it would have been in 4WD

interesting point, when should one use it?

A sShort answer - if you have a pickup 4WD it will tell you in the manual and maybe even on the sun-visor....it is basically designed for extra grip on poor road surfaces - e.g. dirt, mud, snow even (unlikely in Thailand).

I will use it for short periods on hard-top roads in the event of sudden heavy rain as that tends to make the surfaces very slippy.

On the other hand i've driven in places in Thailand & Laos where you know beyond doubt that you will need 4WD - if you want to get home that night.

Edited September 4, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[luwahn]

I still reckon that's a bad translation - no center diff = forced loss of traction on a grippy surface, it's just physics.

What year/month is it? - with that we can easily find the Aussie manual, with proper/checked English I guess

Here ya go...........

Scan-001.jpg

Weeeeeell, as someone that has driven the thing for 8 years, I can tell you in H4 on a dry road it is a no no, on a wet road it is great, l believe cos the water under tyre acts "like" a lubricant...Best way I can describe it.. The ride is Aug 2007..

Sorry to say, but the Aussie version still says the same thing: https://toyotamanuals.com.au/docs/hilux-owners-manual-jul-07-feb-08/

I hope your luck continues mate

Hey guys, I just noticed that my Isuzu MU 7 (English version) users manual's 4WD 4-H wording is practically verbatim to TA's Toyota manual!

If IMHO is right and we all have bad translations, maybe we can start a class action lawsuit and take the proceeds and buy ourselves a EV Titanium+!!

[cumgranosalum]

Just my 2 cents worth.

There's all wheel drive & 4 wheel drive. All wheel drive is constant, like Subaru. Four wheel drive in most SUV. You have to select 4x4, you always have 4x4 with all wheel drive.

On wet roads all wheel or four wheel drive is somewhat of an advantage. Most sensible drivers adjust their driving to suit the prevailing conditions, so unless you are in a real hurry, you don't need any sort of 4x4. Yes, I know, I'll get conflicting opinions from some purists.

I've driven the length & breadth of Australia, beach, deserts, mountains. Bad tracks & no tracks, total wilderness. From memory have only ever needed 4x4 on 2 occasions. The main advantage of most 4x4 vehicles is the extra ground clearance. If you are sensible & use some caution there's few places you can't reach with a 2wd vehicle. As mentioned, ground clearance is the big advantage of 4x4.

So, unless you are tempted to explore the unexplored, driving where you were never meant to drive, have sufficient baht not to have to think about economics, you really don't need a 4 x 4.

To all the 4 x 4 experts out there.. I've owned & driven numerous Mitsubishi, Toyota & Nissan 4 x 4's All great vehicles. But in most instances you just don't need them.

Cheers..... Mal.

I don't understand how you and some other respondents to this post can belittle the importance of 4WD, as well as the increased likeliehood of breakdown and the extra expense.

My experience in driving 2WD pickups and sedans in the deserts of Southern California and Arizona and Utah has been than any vehicle is likely to get stuck out there in the boondocks and especially so if you are not very careful where you point your front wheels. Places where it rains very little in a year, if at all, there are lots of sandy areas, even on the dirt roads, that will catch your 2WD pickup, no matter what kind of tires you have. And if it has rained recently - though the sky is plain blue at present - there are puddles here and there where clayey soil has held the rainwater. So your tires spin and get clogged with clay and become clogged with clay in a minute. Then you sit and spin. You find out your 2WD is really 1-wheel drive, unless you have positraction - so the off-side wheel doesn't turn while the spinning wheel just digs in. It works much the same in snow.

I drive as sensibly, carefully as most people and I have gotten stuck in seemingly safe places and have blasted through flooded areas sometimes where momentum perhaps, with the weight of a small trailer behind the truck, helped push me through.

I remember in Borrego Springs, California, that rich kids from the city would come out to the desert in 4WD vehicles and party and - get stuck. Because they don't know how to drive off-road, and their expensive pickups are not the same as tanks.

And I feel like others who have mentioned the extra expense for 4WD and more parts to break and more chips to fail.

The Reason it matters to me is I have 20 acres of dirt in remote Utah - where people go because that is where they live - and they get stuck there - sometimes have to leave the truck and walk the remaining distance to the home and walk back to the truck in the morining after the water has maybe evaporated - or in the night, after the slush has frozen so they can drive over it - and I have ordinary Dodge pickup. When I start building there I will be driving in and out a lot and hauling materials. In the past I have driven off the dirt track over bushes to go around puddles in the low spots.

So, what i would like to know is what type of 4WD/AWD rig do you advise?

(Besides go back to Thailand and ride a motor scooter).

My two or three cents worth. I have been driving for 45 years, worked as a certified mechanic, ranch hand, driven through 48 out of fifty states as well as across Canada. Had a NASCAR license, and moonlighted as a wrecker driver. Bus driver and motorcycles.Just establishing my creds for my opinions.

Similar deal here. I have been living for ten years on thirty off-grid acres in Arizona, except for some time spent living with a woman in even more rugged country in NW New Mexico. She had a Dodge power wagon.

Lots depends on the terrain and soil composition of where you operate. In New Mexico I have gotten my 4WD 2500 series Dodge stuck both in deep snow, and on the level when monsoon weather turns the clayey soil of the back roads into snot. The only time I could not "work" the truck out was when it side slipped into a deep ditch after an 18 inch snow fall. That required shovels, shoring up with logs, etc., etc.

Two wheel drive vehicles are really alternating one wheel drive, unless you have a limited slip or posi rear differential, as mentioned before on this thread. Four wheel drive vehicles are in their simplest iterations really alternating two wheel drive. Again a posi rear diff will give you an effective three wheel drive. AWD are pretty cool. Really hard to get stuck, especially if you have rugged tires.

A truck like mine does lose a little in the fuel efficiency department, but not enough to risk doing without when you need to haul a couple of tons of material over questionable terrain. Yes, over the course of 300,000 miles on this truck there have been expenses greater than for a similar two wheel drive truck. However, the two wheel drive would simply not have gone where I have to go, hauling what I have to haul. Also, when folks have gotten their two wheel drive vehicles stuck, they come knocking on my door.

I like my Dodge. It is 4WD, has a Cummins diesel engine, a limited slip differential, and if I tied a ten dollar bill to the steering wheel and sent it careening down into the canyon it would owe me no change..It can, and has, hauled in excess of 10,000 lbs.

I liked Nissan diesel 4WD trucks, Jeeps, and International scouts I have owned. The Toyota Land Cruiser when it first came along was great, (no experience with the latest models). I have sold a number of GMC trucks with the Duramax diesel engine and locker rear end... they are pretty cool, but pricey compared to the Dodge. Ford has a pretty good product, but seemed to have a tranny weakness. Maybe they have addressed that by now.

One ranch I worked in Nevada had a couple of surplus Dodge Power wagons, a six wheel drive weapons carrier, and a ten wheel drive recovery vehicle that could go anywhere. Maintenance and fuel would be a bitch on them, though.

Standard vs automatic, I call BS on some claims of one being innately superior to the other. I have driven most varieties, and actually learned to drive on a Model T Ford with a planetary transmission, so yes, I am claiming expertise. These days with creaky hips and knees I like the auto.

Thailand would be a good place for one outside of the cities. I have not driven there much so far, but I have seen places out in the boonies of Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, and Mae Hong Son that I would want a 4WD.

Thank you Yosemite Sam.......

[cumgranosalum]

Some really deep and technical information on here that if I am being honest, some of it goes above my head. Put simply should I be contemplating buying a 4WD say Fortuner or Escape or Pajero if most of my driving is road based although a bit will be on gravel roads and in farm land?

Its essentially going to be used as a passenger vehicle not hailing stuff about like a pickup. Seems like 4WD isnt essential but is a nice have. Does it make it more appealing when selling, hold its value better than a 2WD counterpart. Also I have noticed that very often the 4WD model is the one with all the extras ie the top model and I like some of those extras ;-)))

I didn't know the Fortuner and Pajeros were made in 2WD, at least I've never seen one. All Fortuners in my neck of the woods (Phetchabun) are 4WD and top speck "V" models. The roads round here are abysmal and a Fortuner is a status symbol to Thais. It shows the world that they don't need to hump sacks of rice around. Most farang here have a truck, a couple have an SUV, only one has a car.

A Fortuner or Pajero seems the right choice for you, and you won't be pestered to fit ten or fifteen family members in the back and drive to a funeral in Nakhon Nowhere.

actually you have to look pretty closely to see that one those is actually 2WD....they don't advertise.....

[cumgranosalum]

I think one of the things about 4WD is knowing where and when to use it....many 4WD owners don't really consider this and the result is it never gets used......but they get through anyway.....so they don't find out how much easier it would have been in 4WD

interesting point, when should one use it?

It depends on the 4WD system being discussed - some of them are designed for "Full Time" or "All Wheel Drive" use - which means, you can use it all the time to provide better traction.

Most pickups come with much more rudimentary systems that do not provide enough (or any) "wheel slip" to be used on paved roads - they are purely for off-road (loose surface) use only. Using these on a grippy surface is actually dangerous, as it can promote loss of traction.

A full time 4WD or All-Wheel-Drive car simply would not have been involved in the near miss shown in this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/853053-i-hope-u-appreciate-my-driving-skills/

Additionally, cars with stability control would have been able to correct the slide much quicker than the driver was able to do in this circumstance.

I'd say the main lesson to be learned from the thread you quote is that despite the repeated assertions about "Thai DRIVERS" one of the most dangerous things regarding road safety in Thailand is the ROADS - they are so badly built and maintained that this sort of thing ,which no-one would normally notice can kill.

Whether or not having 4wd and actually having it engaged would have changed that is a moot point.

[cumgranosalum]

Noooo, the Aus version in English is nothing like the Thai English version..It is not the same as the Aus version, In fact the Thai English handbook doesn't tell you which way to aim your farts in case you bloke up the A/C filter........

Many of the top-range Oz pickups built in Thailand or elsewhere have a more sophisticated 4WD system - akin to the kind on theAWD fortuners etc......so instructions may well differ.

i feel that the problems in leaving in $WD arise as said with the steering and the extra load/wear & tear of the transfer box that I suspect isn't built for sustained highspeeds.......I've forgetten I wads in 4WD and shot off up the motorway before but the system still seems to be functioning Ok after several years....

[Jitar]

Noooo, the Aus version in English is nothing like the Thai English version..It is not the same as the Aus version, In fact the Thai English handbook doesn't tell you which way to aim your farts in case you bloke up the A/C filter........

Many of the top-range Oz pickups built in Thailand or elsewhere have a more sophisticated 4WD system - akin to the kind on theAWD fortuners etc......so instructions may well differ.

i feel that the problems in leaving in $WD arise as said with the steering and the extra load/wear & tear of the transfer box that I suspect isn't built for sustained highspeeds.......I've forgetten I wads in 4WD and shot off up the motorway before but the system still seems to be functioning Ok after several years....

Depends on what you call sophisticated. AFAIK all of the pickups use part-time 4WD systems. Some may have switches to engage instead of levers but the transfer box is different to the constant 4WD system on the old Fortuner, (or PJS).

4WD pickups do not have a center diff so they should not be used in 4WD on grippy surfaces. TA uses his beloved Vigo occasionally on wet bitumen which is fine as long as it is slippery and/or the axles are under light load. He mentioned having trouble sometimes disengaging 4WD. This is because of axle windup. As long as the surface allows some slip and sharp turns are not needed, driving a pickup in H4 is fine. They usually handle well on loose gravel in H4.

On grippy surfaces like dry concrete or bitumen, speed is not the issue. Slightly different axle speeds when turning in 4WD create torsion on the drive-train between the axles. The driver can feel the steering and drive-train get tight as it winds up. The truck will feel like a dog to steer and occasionally clunks on sharp turns as one tyre lets go and releases the torsion.

If this is done frequently with enough load and grip, the weakest link will fail eventually, usually a universal joint, diff pinion tooth or spline.

[cumgranosalum]

For sure, but my English handbook in LOS is NOT the same as the Aus one, though perhaps in 2007 all Vigos were built in LOS. For sure I don't know but my handbook is nothing like the Aus version.. Sheila or mate isn't mentioned once, not even gooday in the LOS handbook...

Even then the vehicle specs were different for Oz.

[cumgranosalum]

Noooo, the Aus version in English is nothing like the Thai English version..It is not the same as the Aus version, In fact the Thai English handbook doesn't tell you which way to aim your farts in case you bloke up the A/C filter........

Many of the top-range Oz pickups built in Thailand or elsewhere have a more sophisticated 4WD system - akin to the kind on theAWD fortuners etc......so instructions may well differ.

i feel that the problems in leaving in $WD arise as said with the steering and the extra load/wear & tear of the transfer box that I suspect isn't built for sustained highspeeds.......I've forgetten I wads in 4WD and shot off up the motorway before but the system still seems to be functioning Ok after several years....

Depends on what you call sophisticated. AFAIK all of the pickups use part-time 4WD systems. Some may have switches to engage instead of levers but the transfer box is different to the constant 4WD system on the old Fortuner, (or PJS).

4WD pickups do not have a center diff so they should not be used in 4WD on grippy surfaces. TA uses his beloved Vigo occasionally on wet bitumen which is fine as long as it is slippery and/or the axles are under light load. He mentioned having trouble sometimes disengaging 4WD. This is because of axle windup. As long as the surface allows some slip and sharp turns are not needed, driving a pickup in H4 is fine. They usually handle well on loose gravel in H4.

On grippy surfaces like dry concrete or bitumen, speed is not the issue. Slightly different axle speeds when turning in 4WD create torsion on the drive-train between the axles. The driver can feel the steering and drive-train get tight as it winds up. The truck will feel like a dog to steer and occasionally clunks on sharp turns as one tyre lets go and releases the torsion.

If this is done frequently with enough load and grip, the weakest link will fail eentually, usually a universal joint, diff pinion tooth or spline.

I can tell you for sure that the top of the range Mitsu 4WD pickups in Oz have a centre diff, i suspect other models - all made in Thailand also do.

as far as I'm aware this option is not yet available on trucks for sale in Thailand.....I'd keep an eye on Mitsu and the big-engined Ford Ranger.

with no front diff lock at all and limited slip on the back on the standard Thai pickup, i'd have thought the risk of "wind-up" was pretty low?

[cumgranosalum]

Noooo, the Aus version in English is nothing like the Thai English version..It is not the same as the Aus version, In fact the Thai English handbook doesn't tell you which way to aim your farts in case you bloke up the A/C filter........

Many of the top-range Oz pickups built in Thailand or elsewhere have a more sophisticated 4WD system - akin to the kind on theAWD fortuners etc......so instructions may well differ.

i feel that the problems in leaving in $WD arise as said with the steering and the extra load/wear & tear of the transfer box that I suspect isn't built for sustained highspeeds.......I've forgetten I wads in 4WD and shot off up the motorway before but the system still seems to be functioning Ok after several years....

Depends on what you call sophisticated. AFAIK all of the pickups use part-time 4WD systems. Some may have switches to engage instead of levers but the transfer box is different to the constant 4WD system on the old Fortuner, (or PJS).

4WD pickups do not have a center diff so they should not be used in 4WD on grippy surfaces. TA uses his beloved Vigo occasionally on wet bitumen which is fine as long as it is slippery and/or the axles are under light load. He mentioned having trouble sometimes disengaging 4WD. This is because of axle windup. As long as the surface allows some slip and sharp turns are not needed, driving a pickup in H4 is fine. They usually handle well on loose gravel in H4.

On grippy surfaces like dry concrete or bitumen, speed is not the issue. Slightly different axle speeds when turning in 4WD create torsion on the drive-train between the axles. The driver can feel the steering and drive-train get tight as it winds up. The truck will feel like a dog to steer and occasionally clunks on sharp turns as one tyre lets go and releases the torsion.

If this is done frequently with enough load and grip, the weakest link will fail eventually, usually a universal joint, diff pinion tooth or spline.

sounds like you work on LandRovers!

[stament]

Way too technical for me now, I'm out.

Enjoy...

[Jitar]

Noooo, the Aus version in English is nothing like the Thai English version..It is not the same as the Aus version, In fact the Thai English handbook doesn't tell you which way to aim your farts in case you bloke up the A/C filter........

Many of the top-range Oz pickups built in Thailand or elsewhere have a more sophisticated 4WD system - akin to the kind on theAWD fortuners etc......so instructions may well differ.

i feel that the problems in leaving in $WD arise as said with the steering and the extra load/wear & tear of the transfer box that I suspect isn't built for sustained highspeeds.......I've forgetten I wads in 4WD and shot off up the motorway before but the system still seems to be functioning Ok after several years....

Depends on what you call sophisticated. AFAIK all of the pickups use part-time 4WD systems. Some may have switches to engage instead of levers but the transfer box is different to the constant 4WD system on the old Fortuner, (or PJS).

4WD pickups do not have a center diff so they should not be used in 4WD on grippy surfaces. TA uses his beloved Vigo occasionally on wet bitumen which is fine as long as it is slippery and/or the axles are under light load. He mentioned having trouble sometimes disengaging 4WD. This is because of axle windup. As long as the surface allows some slip and sharp turns are not needed, driving a pickup in H4 is fine. They usually handle well on loose gravel in H4.

On grippy surfaces like dry concrete or bitumen, speed is not the issue. Slightly different axle speeds when turning in 4WD create torsion on the drive-train between the axles. The driver can feel the steering and drive-train get tight as it winds up. The truck will feel like a dog to steer and occasionally clunks on sharp turns as one tyre lets go and releases the torsion.

If this is done frequently with enough load and grip, the weakest link will fail eentually, usually a universal joint, diff pinion tooth or spline.

sounds like you work on LandRovers!

I can tell you for sure that the top of the range Mitsu 4WD pickups in Oz have a centre diff, i suspect other models - all made in Thailand also do.

as far as I'm aware this option is not yet available on trucks for sale in Thailand.....I'd keep an eye on Mitsu and the big-engined Ford Ranger.

with no front diff lock at all and limited slip on the back on the standard Thai pickup, i'd have thought the risk of "wind-up" was pretty low?

Fortunately I don't work on Land Rovers anymore

You are right, Mitsu changed to the Super Select system for the later years of the previous generation Triton in Australia. The VW Amorak is constant 4WD as well. My comments were about Thai pickups, livin in LOS makes looking at other markets to depressing

Windup is not eliminated by open diffs, the difference in speed between front and rear axles when cornering remains. Diff locks would not be used in situations where wind up occurs, (i.e. good grip).

[stament]

I think one of the things about 4WD is knowing where and when to use it....many 4WD owners don't really consider this and the result is it never gets used......but they get through anyway.....so they don't find out how much easier it would have been in 4WD

interesting point, when should one use it?

It depends on the 4WD system being discussed - some of them are designed for "Full Time" or "All Wheel Drive" use - which means, you can use it all the time to provide better traction.

Most pickups come with much more rudimentary systems that do not provide enough (or any) "wheel slip" to be used on paved roads - they are purely for off-road (loose surface) use only. Using these on a grippy surface is actually dangerous, as it can promote loss of traction.

A full time 4WD or All-Wheel-Drive car simply would not have been involved in the near miss shown in this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/853053-i-hope-u-appreciate-my-driving-skills/

Additionally, cars with stability control would have been able to correct the slide much quicker than the driver was able to do in this circumstance.

I take it my honda crv would is an all drive based on your post? ie I cannot change it, its set at 4WD all the time

[IMHO]

I take it my honda crv would is an all drive based on your post? ie I cannot change it, its set at 4WD all the time

Correct

[Stuart21]

Use this for driving only on tracks that permit the tires to slide, like off-road, icy or snow covered roads.

I am absolutely sure...I double checked my English hand book before I posted.....

Page 93...........I can post it.......

Are you sure you didn't get a dodgy translation mate?

Low traction conditions permit slip, reducing the amount of windup & possibility of damage. Particularly important on winding roads.

[Stuart21]

Use this for driving only on tracks that permit the tires to slide, like off-road, icy or snow covered roads.

I am absolutely sure...I double checked my English hand book before I posted.....

Page 93...........I can post it.......

Are you sure you didn't get a dodgy translation mate?

Low traction conditions permit slip, reducing the amount of windup & possibility of damage. Particularly important on winding roads.

However, by 'requiring' slip, P/T 4WD can actually reduce traction, as the condition at one or more of the tyre contact patches changes from static friction to sliding friction. This would mainly be a concern when cornering at or near the limits of (reduced) adhesion, low or no power.

[IMHO]

Use this for driving only on tracks that permit the tires to slide, like off-road, icy or snow covered roads.

I am absolutely sure...I double checked my English hand book before I posted.....

Page 93...........I can post it.......

Are you sure you didn't get a dodgy translation mate?

Low traction conditions permit slip, reducing the amount of windup & possibility of damage. Particularly important on winding roads.

However, by 'requiring' slip, P/T 4WD can actually reduce traction, as the condition at one or more of the tyre contact patches changes from static friction to sliding friction. This would mainly be a concern when cornering at or near the limits of (reduced) adhesion, low or no power.

Thank you - this is why part time systems without centre diff are not recommended for use on wet roads - where reality is, you actually do have traction most of the time, so windup is going to occur, ergo a forced loss of traction.

Would I instruct my family to use part-time 4x4 on wet pavement? no. Each to their own though

Edited September 6, 2015 by IMHO

[cumgranosalum]

I am absolutely sure...I double checked my English hand book before I posted.....

Page 93...........I can post it.......

Are you sure you didn't get a dodgy translation mate?

Low traction conditions permit slip, reducing the amount of windup & possibility of damage. Particularly important on winding roads.

However, by 'requiring' slip, P/T 4WD can actually reduce traction, as the condition at one or more of the tyre contact patches changes from static friction to sliding friction. This would mainly be a concern when cornering at or near the limits of (reduced) adhesion, low or no power.

Thank you - this is why part time systems without centre diff are not recommended for use on wet roads - where reality is, you actually do have traction most of the time, so windup is going to occur, ergo a forced loss of traction.

Would I instruct my family to use part-time 4x4 on wet pavement? no. Each to their own though

on wet slippy roads the "forced loss" of traction would occur only momentarily on wheels that in 2WD would have no traction at all.

[IMHO]

on wet slippy roads the "forced loss" of traction would occur only momentarily on wheels that in 2WD would have no traction at all.

Just because a wheel doesn't have power, does not mean it's without traction.

[Ace of Pop]

Ford have a special powered spare.

[cumgranosalum]

on wet slippy roads the "forced loss" of traction would occur only momentarily on wheels that in 2WD would have no traction at all.

Just because a wheel doesn't have power, does not mean it's without traction.

that's an oxymoron.