HELP! Involved in an accident

[patyh]

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I was trying to cross to enter a business in the other side of a two lane road. Traffic was backed up to some lights, so quite unusually a car backed up so I could cross over. As I slowly moved forward a motorbike came racing up on the inside hard shoulder and slammed straight into the front of my car (which is fitted with bull bars). The male rider was uninjured, but his female pillion had a leg injury. The bike was bent too, but no damage to my car. The police arrived, and an ambulance, and we all made statements and produced our documents. The bike was uninsured, and tax out of date, and they were not wearing helmets. All my papers were good, but I didn't have comprehensive insurance. In the end, I was blamed and made to pay for the bike damage, her hospital bills and her loss of income..! We later found out that she wasn't working where she said she was, and we stopped all further payments. The police thought it was funny that I objected to the way they handled the case. I was later stopped and threatened with jail, if I didn't pay a substantial bribe. My opinion of the Thai Police was changed forever after..

I'm curious. What happened after that?

[alien365]

I will be buying a dashcam in the near future to try and protect myself against situations such as this.

[Sviss Geez]

....decent = stupid......

...you are dealing with primitive 'near-savages' here....

...you let them smell the fear in your sweat = blood for these predators...

...he smashed in to you....you were turning out...he was speeding...you were at a crawl...

...for a Thai in your position this never would have gone so far.....

...all theatrics.....

....the half-Thai murdered a policeman...ran away from the scene....probably intoxicated or worse....and barely paid anything.....

...next you'll be buying them a house....

..and that's right...talk with no one....

...did you want to show off your Thai language skills......???

That's right, insult the OP and call him primitive near-savage. If you spent more time reading the OP's posts instead of decorating yours with hundreds of fullstops and filling it with irrelevant nonsense you'd know that the OP is Thai.

[DrTuner]

Also had a scooter ram my door. Called insurance, guys came, off to police station to determine who was at fault. The scooter guy ended up paying me a decent amount in cash, as he had no insurance. All went textbook.

Had it not gone so, I would simply have deferred any conversations to the insurance agent. That's what I pay for.

[patyh]

....decent = stupid......

...you are dealing with primitive 'near-savages' here....

...you let them smell the fear in your sweat = blood for these predators...

...he smashed in to you....you were turning out...he was speeding...you were at a crawl...

...for a Thai in your position this never would have gone so far.....

...all theatrics.....

....the half-Thai murdered a policeman...ran away from the scene....probably intoxicated or worse....and barely paid anything.....

...next you'll be buying them a house....

..and that's right...talk with no one....

...did you want to show off your Thai language skills......???

That's right, insult the OP and call him primitive near-savage. If you spent more time reading the OP's posts instead of decorating yours with hundreds of fullstops and filling it with irrelevant nonsense you'd know that the OP is Thai.

It's ok. This is a forum. I expect this anyway. But his opinion is still much appreciated. Like many others in this thread have said many times over. Talk with no one. Well.. not with no one but if I'm not wrong, I should start pointing everything to my insurer.

Edited September 4, 2015 by patyh

[patyh]

I will be buying a dashcam in the near future to try and protect myself against situations such as this.

The thing is. I had one. And it was not working on the day of the incident.

Even if I have it, I guess it would only prove that while turning right, 2 vehicles have stopped and there was no oncoming traffic on the left most lane.

But damn.. Time to get a new dashcam..

[konying]

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I was trying to cross to enter a business in the other side of a two lane road. Traffic was backed up to some lights, so quite unusually a car backed up so I could cross over. As I slowly moved forward a motorbike came racing up on the inside hard shoulder and slammed straight into the front of my car (which is fitted with bull bars). The male rider was uninjured, but his female pillion had a leg injury. The bike was bent too, but no damage to my car. The police arrived, and an ambulance, and we all made statements and produced our documents. The bike was uninsured, and tax out of date, and they were not wearing helmets. All my papers were good, but I didn't have comprehensive insurance. In the end, I was blamed and made to pay for the bike damage, her hospital bills and her loss of income..! We later found out that she wasn't working where she said she was, and we stopped all further payments. The police thought it was funny that I objected to the way they handled the case. I was later stopped and threatened with jail, if I didn't pay a substantial bribe. My opinion of the Thai Police was changed forever after..

I am surprised lesson you did not seem to learn was to have insurance.

And you paid medical bills which were not only free but covered by compulsory insurance

[patyh]

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I was trying to cross to enter a business in the other side of a two lane road. Traffic was backed up to some lights, so quite unusually a car backed up so I could cross over. As I slowly moved forward a motorbike came racing up on the inside hard shoulder and slammed straight into the front of my car (which is fitted with bull bars). The male rider was uninjured, but his female pillion had a leg injury. The bike was bent too, but no damage to my car. The police arrived, and an ambulance, and we all made statements and produced our documents. The bike was uninsured, and tax out of date, and they were not wearing helmets. All my papers were good, but I didn't have comprehensive insurance. In the end, I was blamed and made to pay for the bike damage, her hospital bills and her loss of income..! We later found out that she wasn't working where she said she was, and we stopped all further payments. The police thought it was funny that I objected to the way they handled the case. I was later stopped and threatened with jail, if I didn't pay a substantial bribe. My opinion of the Thai Police was changed forever after..

I am surprised lesson you did not seem to learn was to have insurance.

And you paid medical bills which were not only free but covered by compulsory insurance

I think the lesson for everyone is this. Always have first class insurance. No matter how much it cost, as long as it's reasonable. So you don't have to worry about what happen in an accident.

[meltingpot2015]

The bigger vehicle is always at fault, in thailand. Yep!, sound crazy to foreigners. But I reckon its how Thai people Balance things out. In the west, you would just say tough Luck to the motorcyclist.

In Thailand, if he's hurt, and end up in hospital, even if its their fault, the car driver takes the blame. (provided they don't take you and the police for a mug and try to lie through their teeth). It'll be interesting if one day, a car driver ends up in hospital and the motorcyclist is unscathed (hardly ever happens).

I read a post here somewhere, where they said if the car driver was not always at fault, it would make the motorcycle (taxis) more careful.

Edited September 4, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[Tywais]

The bigger vehicle is always at fault, in thailand. Yep!

Still propagating that myth I see. Personal experience says otherwise.

[losworld]

I am sure at some point having low speed accidents with farang will become a new occupation. Another reason to not drive a car here.

[Si Thea01]

Firstly, do not listen to those who tell you not to involve Police. It is obvious they have no idea of the Lands and Traffic Act and what the rules and reguations stipulate. The Police have been involved so if instructed to attend a police station, do so but make sure you have a representative of your insurance company attend with you, and also you wife/gf so if you do not speak Thai, you will have someone else who can tell you what is happening..

Secondly, If the representative is not looking after your interests and the insurer, then contact the insurer ASAP and tell them so and request another representative. You should never have signed anything admitting fault, this has now left yourself and the insurer open to compensating the victim. Regardless of what anyone tries to get from you, always refer to you insurer and never deviate from that.

Given what you have stated about the insurer's rep, it would appear he is an independent and looking for a cut himself. The police tend to adopt this approach also, even from Thai nationals, not only farangs. Given your description, it appears you are at fault, however, the victim is now out to milk you if he can. Do not feel sorry for him, talk with him, do not visit him and just refer everyone to the insurer. Unfortunately, you were, as you said, at the wrong place at the wrong time and it will cost you, at least a fine, how much I cannot say, that will be up to the police.

If you follow half the advise being sprouted on here then you will end up in the deep end, as many have no idea even though they think they do. There are also quite a few sensible posters, you can see who they are, and their advise is correct.

In so far as meeting with police, you are required to do so, despite what some say, and this is where statements are taken and negotiations take place. You may be required to go two or three times but remember, if your not happy with the insurer's rep, as I previously said, advise them ASAP and have him replaced so you will not be placed more at risk than you are now. Hopefully, someone, who is honest, will be appointed and will be able to resolve the matter without causing you any more undue stress.

[patyh]

The bigger vehicle is always at fault, in thailand. Yep!

Still propagating that myth I see. Personal experience says otherwise.

It was true some years ago till for some reason it was changed to determine based on the right of way (Tang Ekk Tang Toh).

From this incident, it seems to be that way. Does not matter if the other party was Drunk, under the influence of drugs, driving without license, overtaking within 30m of a junction. They only seem to care where I was and where the other was at the point of impact.

[Don Mega]

For starters if someone is employed, they are entitled to 30 sick days, so no income is lost .

Assuming they have not used up any sick days prior to the accident.

That would be their problem

Why is it their problem ?

You smash into someone you are liable to make good. If your insurance company is covering good for you but to say it is the persons problem if they do not have enough sick leave owing to cover your liabilities is a pathetic reply.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Don Mega

[patyh]

Firstly, do not listen to those who tell you not to involve Police. It is obvious they have no idea of the Lands and Traffic Act and what the rules and reguations stipulate. The Police have been involved so if instructed to attend a police station, do so but make sure you have a representative of your insurance company attend with you, and also you wife/gf so if you do not speak Thai, you will have someone else who can tell you what is happening..

Secondly, If the representative is not looking after your interests and the insurer, then contact the insurer ASAP and tell them so and request another representative. You should never have signed anything admitting fault, this has now left yourself and the insurer open to compensating the victim. Regardless of what anyone tries to get from you, always refer to you insurer and never deviate from that.

Given what you have stated about the insurer's rep, it would appear he is an independent and looking for a cut himself. The police tend to adopt this approach also, even from Thai nationals, not only farangs. Given your description, it appears you are at fault, however, the victim is now out to milk you if he can. Do not feel sorry for him, talk with him, do not visit him and just refer everyone to the insurer. Unfortunately, you were, as you said, at the wrong place at the wrong time and it will cost you, at least a fine, how much I cannot say, that will be up to the police.

If you follow half the advise being sprouted on here then you will end up in the deep end, as many have no idea even though they think they do. There are also quite a few sensible posters, you can see who they are, and their advise is correct.

In so far as meeting with police, you are required to do so, despite what some say, and this is where statements are taken and negotiations take place. You may be required to go two or three times but remember, if your not happy with the insurer's rep, as I previously said, advise them ASAP and have him replaced so you will not be placed more at risk than you are now. Hopefully, someone, who is honest, will be appointed and will be able to resolve the matter without causing you any more undue stress.

Hey there. Thank you for your opinion.

So what do you reckon will happen next? Spoke to a friend who studies law and agree that signing the admittance of fault was a big mistake.

As far as I know, I am liable for a fine of 400 Baht for "reckless driving". But compensating to the victim. Should that not be covered by my insurer or is there something I misunderstood.?

[NoshowJones]

I had a similar accident only a few days ago, and can only relate my experiences, although mine was in a rural area. I was in the process of making a right turn onto my road from the rural highway. There were 2 girls on a motorbike behind me. As I was turning right, the driver decided to speed up in order to pass me on the right, and hit the driver's side of the car creating a lot of damage covered by insurance.

Both girls flew off the bike, fortunately landing on grass and dirt. Driver hurt pretty much, and passenger only slightly. Police, and ambulance came, and took the more injured girl to the hospital. Although it was clearly the motorbike driver's fault, my wife (Thai) advised me to agree that it was mutual fault of both parties so we wouldn't have to go to court.

As is custom, we went to the hospital until the girl was released about an hour later (her whole family was also there). We then went to the police station where I had to pay a fine for not paying attention (400 baht), and reckless driving(100 baht). The other girl had to pay 1000 baht. When I asked my wife why she had to pay twice as much as me, she said it was because 2 of them were on the motorbike. Only in Thailand.

I was very relieved to get out of all of this so cheaply, but my wife said it would be nice if I went to the girls and gave each of them 1000 baht. I'll think about it.

but my wife said it would be nice if I went to the girls and gave each of them 1000 baht. I'll think about it. You will think about it????????????

[meltingpot2015]

OP: what is this about flashing your lights while making the turn?, because of the way Thai people drive?.

Also, you were sure the left lane was clear, so how come you had to flash the main beam?. Other oncoming cars had already stopped.

[billphillips]

It's quite simple, you have already stated that you have number 1 insurance ..... Leave it for the insurance company to sort / pay out. Do not, under any circumstances, become involved in any proceedings or discussions.

The police do not have any authority to "fine" you. Any claim for real or imagined compensation against you should be redirected towards the insurance company.

That's what you are paying for.

You may want to consider installing a dash-cam.

[richard_smith237]

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I was trying to cross to enter a business in the other side of a two lane road. Traffic was backed up to some lights, so quite unusually a car backed up so I could cross over. As I slowly moved forward a motorbike came racing up on the inside hard shoulder and slammed straight into the front of my car (which is fitted with bull bars). The male rider was uninjured, but his female pillion had a leg injury. The bike was bent too, but no damage to my car. The police arrived, and an ambulance, and we all made statements and produced our documents. The bike was uninsured, and tax out of date, and they were not wearing helmets. All my papers were good, but I didn't have comprehensive insurance. In the end, I was blamed and made to pay for the bike damage, her hospital bills and her loss of income..! We later found out that she wasn't working where she said she was, and we stopped all further payments. The police thought it was funny that I objected to the way they handled the case. I was later stopped and threatened with jail, if I didn't pay a substantial bribe. My opinion of the Thai Police was changed forever after..

I am surprised lesson you did not seem to learn was to have insurance.

And you paid medical bills which were not only free but covered by compulsory insurance

I'm surprised at the response of many Foreigners in Thailand who are so easily intimidated by the BiB who are simply chancing their luck. They are like children who will try in the most obvious ways to get a 'little bit extra'...

Konying is clearly unintimidated by these people. In such situations he becomes somewhat of an 'a-hole'.. unfortunately, not to be taken advantage of, life sometimes forces us to become a person we don't like to be. In Thailand the weak are often taken advantage of.

Thus: When involved in an accident follow Konying's advice - he's right on the money with pretty much everything he's written in this thread so far.

In short: Become an 'a-hole' - Be firm but polite, be inflexible if you have to, don't sweat the small stuff, but don't bend over and take the blame unnecessarily, use your insurance...

Threats are just threats... laugh / shrug them off - its just part of a childish game.

[patyh]

OP: what is this about flashing your lights while making the turn?, because of the way Thai people drive?.

Also, you were sure the left lane was clear, so how come you had to flash the main beam?. Other oncoming cars had already stopped.

Allow me to explain.

Anyone driving along this road would know that when approaching Sukhumvit 81, they will avoid the left lane as there are buses and taxis parked along the left hand lane always. So unless you're turning, normally no one would come into the left hand lane.

As I was making the turn, the first two lane (Right lane and middle lane) had stopped for me to pass. However, the left lane was still vacant, but I could make out the usual taxi headlight near the entrance of the condo located next to BTS onnut.

Furthermore, the soi that I was entering was a stand for the motorcycle taxi, who would exit the soi and make a left turn to pick up the waiting passengers at the side of the walkway.

So the blinking headlight was for me to "warn" any motorcyclist either coming from the left lane or the motorcycle taxi that I'm coming through and requesting "permission" to pass. Normally I would not do so, but the number of motorcycle taxi for that night was quite heavy since there were still a lot of people going home.

Hope that explains my flashing lights. I know, not usual in a foreign country.. But TIT and I did it. Not sure if not doing so will make a difference or not.

Like I mentioned in the first post, the front of my car was already in the soi before I was hit.

As usual, I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time. No denying that.

[richard_smith237]

OP: what is this about flashing your lights while making the turn?, because of the way Thai people drive?.

Also, you were sure the left lane was clear, so how come you had to flash the main beam?. Other oncoming cars had already stopped.

Right or wrongly - Driving in Thailand needs to be approached with certain 'assertiveness' without which progress may be extremely slow and painful.

We have to edge out and force ourselves into traffic... The flashing headlights is one of these 'assertive' measures and very common in Thailand - it clearly shows your intentions.

In this case - it appears the Op was at fault for cutting across the path of the bike. But ask any intelligent bike rider if they would blindly ride through a junction where other cars were stopped. The bike rider is also culpable.

Western rules and attitudes do not apply here - they only work when everyone else follows the rules where the concept of 'the greater good' outweighs selfishness. In Thailand it is selfishness - self-centredness on the roads is prevalent and leads to 'pressure situations' whereby you have to 'push' a little if you are going to get anywhere.

[streboris]

Are you fully insured?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Opps! Forgot to add,

Car is a 2 years old Mitsubishi Attrage. Driving around with a First Class Insurance.

You never forget Patya you stated this at the end. Stupid TV members can't bother to read properly,

lol he went back and stated it at the end in an edit... which he highlighted as an edit with 'post edit'

[meltingpot2015]

OP: what is this about flashing your lights while making the turn?, because of the way Thai people drive?.

Also, you were sure the left lane was clear, so how come you had to flash the main beam?. Other oncoming cars had already stopped.

Right or wrongly - Driving in Thailand needs to be approached with certain 'assertiveness' without which progress may be extremely slow and painful.

We have to edge out and force ourselves into traffic... The flashing headlights is one of these 'assertive' measures and very common in Thailand - it clearly shows your intentions.

In this case - it appears the Op was at fault for cutting across the path of the bike. But ask any intelligent bike rider if they would blindly ride through a junction where other cars were stopped. The bike rider is also culpable.

Western rules and attitudes do not apply here - they only work when everyone else follows the rules where the concept of 'the greater good' outweighs selfishness. In Thailand it is selfishness - self-centredness on the roads is prevalent and leads to 'pressure situations' whereby you have to 'push' a little if you are going to get anywhere.

"assertive measures"? the op was flashing his lights because "we all know how drivers in Thailand drive". Not to assert himself through the turning.

He wasn't attempting to close a deal on European Integration. Your comment is self-contradicting, because the OP was actually being overly cautious.

OP flashing the main beam - Motorcyclist having to "...blindly ride through a junction" - Indeed.

[patyh]

OP: what is this about flashing your lights while making the turn?, because of the way Thai people drive?.

Also, you were sure the left lane was clear, so how come you had to flash the main beam?. Other oncoming cars had already stopped.

Right or wrongly - Driving in Thailand needs to be approached with certain 'assertiveness' without which progress may be extremely slow and painful.

We have to edge out and force ourselves into traffic... The flashing headlights is one of these 'assertive' measures and very common in Thailand - it clearly shows your intentions.

In this case - it appears the Op was at fault for cutting across the path of the bike. But ask any intelligent bike rider if they would blindly ride through a junction where other cars were stopped. The bike rider is also culpable.

Western rules and attitudes do not apply here - they only work when everyone else follows the rules where the concept of 'the greater good' outweighs selfishness. In Thailand it is selfishness - self-centredness on the roads is prevalent and leads to 'pressure situations' whereby you have to 'push' a little if you are going to get anywhere.

"assertive measures"? the op was flashing his lights because "we all know how drivers in Thailand drive". Not to assert himself through the turning.

He wasn't attempting to close a deal on European Integration. Your comment is self-contradicting, because the OP was actually being overly cautious.

OP flashing the main beam - Motorcyclist having to "...blindly ride through a junction" - Indeed.

Being over cautious I might have been. But still it did not help since he still hit me.. So.. yeah... I need to spend more time on the road and be even more careful.

[meltingpot2015]

I think you may have been "too careful". There clearly was no need for "flashing lights". If you concentrated more on making the turn and less on "flashing lights' .....

[Si Thea01]

Firstly, do not listen to those who tell you not to involve Police. It is obvious they have no idea of the Lands and Traffic Act and what the rules and reguations stipulate. The Police have been involved so if instructed to attend a police station, do so but make sure you have a representative of your insurance company attend with you, and also you wife/gf so if you do not speak Thai, you will have someone else who can tell you what is happening..

Secondly, If the representative is not looking after your interests and the insurer, then contact the insurer ASAP and tell them so and request another representative. You should never have signed anything admitting fault, this has now left yourself and the insurer open to compensating the victim. Regardless of what anyone tries to get from you, always refer to you insurer and never deviate from that.

Given what you have stated about the insurer's rep, it would appear he is an independent and looking for a cut himself. The police tend to adopt this approach also, even from Thai nationals, not only farangs. Given your description, it appears you are at fault, however, the victim is now out to milk you if he can. Do not feel sorry for him, talk with him, do not visit him and just refer everyone to the insurer. Unfortunately, you were, as you said, at the wrong place at the wrong time and it will cost you, at least a fine, how much I cannot say, that will be up to the police.

If you follow half the advise being sprouted on here then you will end up in the deep end, as many have no idea even though they think they do. There are also quite a few sensible posters, you can see who they are, and their advise is correct.

In so far as meeting with police, you are required to do so, despite what some say, and this is where statements are taken and negotiations take place. You may be required to go two or three times but remember, if your not happy with the insurer's rep, as I previously said, advise them ASAP and have him replaced so you will not be placed more at risk than you are now. Hopefully, someone, who is honest, will be appointed and will be able to resolve the matter without causing you any more undue stress.

Hey there. Thank you for your opinion.

So what do you reckon will happen next? Spoke to a friend who studies law and agree that signing the admittance of fault was a big mistake.

As far as I know, I am liable for a fine of 400 Baht for "reckless driving". But compensating to the victim. Should that not be covered by my insurer or is there something I misunderstood.?

I really cannot say what you can expect next and I will not speculate either way, why cause any more stress than is necessary. All I can say, if it's not too late, contact your insurer ASAP and tell them what has occurred with the rep. Be guided by your insurer, not some of the ridiculous advise proffered by a few on here.

[patyh]

I think you may have been "too careful". There clearly was no need for "flashing lights". If you concentrated more on making the turn and less on "flashing lights' .....

I understand your point.. But I'm not sure how much more attention could I paid. Since like I've mentioned, I was hit next to my "B" Pillar.. Just a tiny winy bit more the insurer would have point his finger to the motorcycle. I can't speed through the junction as well, since the number of people crossing the entrance of the soi is quite heavy as well.

Edited September 4, 2015 by patyh

[lostinisaan]

Let the insurance guy deal with it and do not get involved. The bloke wants money and so do the cops. I'm talking from experience.

Best of luck !!!!

[streboris]

I would always have full insurance in Thailand. It's very easy to be in a serious accident where someone is killed and it will be your fault as a falang. If someone is hurt badly or worse you can very easily find yourself in jail, so I have full insurance for the bail bond and think of the other benefits as a bonus.

My step daughter had a very serious accident 18 months ago. A motorbike hit her head on. He turned right onto the shoulder on the wrong side of the road and ploughed into her.

The bike that hit her was being ridden by an old man with his daughter and grandaughter on it with him. The grandfather and 3yr old grandaughter both died and he had no insurance.

My daughter had to have reconstructive surgery on her face.

It was clearly the old man that was at fault, but his daughter lost her dad and daughter. So we paid for their funerals. This is the thai way and I believe it was the right thing to do.

When the daughter came to say thank you, she saw me and baht signs.

2 days later the police told my wife she was demanding 600,000 baht... the police were on our side, but they never saw me. I dunno if things would have changed if they knew my wife had a falang husband. Eventually the old man's daughter gave up. Also I think my wife having such a big family also helped us.

This accident made me realise, that if it was me, rather than my daughter, I could easily have ended up in jail...

It's the same here in saudi and I put a dash cam in my car here. It's not strictly legal here and possibly would get ignored, but it gives me piece of mind. I will do the same in Thailand.

Edited September 4, 2015 by streboris

[pbonline]

I had a similar accident only a few days ago, and can only relate my experiences, although mine was in a rural area. I was in the process of making a right turn onto my road from the rural highway. There were 2 girls on a motorbike behind me. As I was turning right, the driver decided to speed up in order to pass me on the right, and hit the driver's side of the car creating a lot of damage covered by insurance.

Both girls flew off the bike, fortunately landing on grass and dirt. Driver hurt pretty much, and passenger only slightly. Police, and ambulance came, and took the more injured girl to the hospital. Although it was clearly the motorbike driver's fault, my wife (Thai) advised me to agree that it was mutual fault of both parties so we wouldn't have to go to court.

As is custom, we went to the hospital until the girl was released about an hour later (her whole family was also there). We then went to the police station where I had to pay a fine for not paying attention (400 baht), and reckless driving(100 baht). The other girl had to pay 1000 baht. When I asked my wife why she had to pay twice as much as me, she said it was because 2 of them were on the motorbike. Only in Thailand.

I was very relieved to get out of all of this so cheaply, but my wife said it would be nice if I went to the girls and gave each of them 1000 baht. I'll think about it.

If It was me I would change wife..

You shouldn´t take any blame and the girl who drove the motorbike should end up paying for the damages on your car.

Edited September 4, 2015 by pbonline