Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[BoristheBlade]

Judges in a fair and civilised courts would indeed make judgement on the evidence placed before them.

But this is not a civilised or fair country.

This is a trial for the murder of two ferangs, allegedly murdered by another two foreigners.

This is a case which the Dictator of his country, the Chief of Police, the British PM have personally intervened.

This is no ordinary case and the judgment in my opinion was made long before the trial began.

My only hope is if the two scapegoats are found guilty, the British , with Mr David Cameron as the spokes person blow this case sky high.

Will that happen ...NO ,,,,Politics

SHAME on all involved

Following the completion of this trial and the announcement of the verdict, human rights organizations are going to make their views on the fairness of the proceedings clear. My opinion is that, in the event of a not a guilty verdict, the assessment will not be complimentary. If a guilty verdict is handed down, the rights organizations are going to be outspoken in their criticism. Some will say Thailand does not care, but there are real consequences. Things like the US annual Reports on Human Rights Practices influence policies that impact on Thailand both diplomatically and economically.

Thailand may not care (much) what we think, but they very much care about what the human rights organizations like Amnesty are going to say.

I am sorry but Thailand not only does not care, it does not give a flying *uck!

Historical events are imminent in this country, hence the present military government, NOTHING will be allowed to interfere with the real reason power was ceased by the military.

You are witnessing an enormous fight for money, power and privilege and the opinions of Obama, Cameron the UN,. Greenpeace, amnesty and Co mater not a jot!!

This is a evil and wicked nation run by and for money...nothing else...and they have the shame to call themselves Buddhist...please

[GOLDBUGGY]

What a disgusting and poor piece of reporting by the washington post. with quotes like this

"A rusty hoe, its blade broken and caked in gore, lay nearby."

Its not gore its Hannah's Blood !

I wonder were they get such Rubbish from ?

“The second roti seller has been on the stand today, and it’s become very clear that he does not have much of grasp of Thai at all, so we don’t understand how he could have translated for police,” Andy Hall, a British migrant-rights advocate who is assisting the defense, told the newspaper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/15/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island/?postshare=5391442327496335

Yeah! Since they quoted several different newspapers I can only guess they got the same misinformation we have been getting for a year, except they didn't have time to decipher it like us, and throw out the garbage.

[seahorse]

Mr Miller arrives at Chopper Bar around 1:40am to find it closed for the night. He then walks east into an alley, stopping to buy a pair of sunglasses at a convenience store, which he hangs on his shirt. -

http://www.thephuketnews.com/koh-tao-trial-resumes-court-shown-footage-of-victims-final-night-53318.php

I know this has been mentioned before but why would David have been buying a pair of sunglasses at 1.40 in the morning? He was seen earlier in the evening with a pair of sunglasses hanging on his teeshirt. Having not seen the cctv clip and in light of all the other RTP/prosecution lies I remain suspicious as to whether it was glasses he was buying. The B2 were reported to have stolen his glasses as well as his phone - wonder if these were the pair the police allegedly say he purchased?

Another thought about the 'pool of blood' on the beach not being tested by the police for DNA - possibly this blood, or some of it belonged to the killer/s - if David put up a fight particularly. And I would also speculate that the blood could have belonged to a an unfortunate witness that cut short the staging of the crime and was also murdered and disposed of.

One of the foreign reporters said that he was unable to hire a Thai translator after dozens of locals declined the job offer, citing fear from “local mafia.”

Who is this 'local mafia'? Why would locals fear them?

Two Thai reporters also briefly attended the trial for less than an hour.

The silence from the local press speaks volumes.

The investigation into grisly murder has been followed closely by foreign reporters, human rights activists, and skeptics, who have expressed concern that the two Burmese men were arrested as scapegoats after police reached a series of dead ends in their efforts to pin down a suspect.

I guess Thai visa members are the "skeptics".

[MockingJay]

Serious question: Did anyone here during the whole "investigation" read anything about samples being retrieved from under Hannah's and David's fingernails ? I think I read something about defense wounds, but can't recall anything about fingernail samples...

[Aj Mick]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

The job of the defense team is to get the defendants free, not to bring justice to Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, the people that conflate the two things are in the process of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The defense strategy is not to prove the defendants innocent, is to thoroughly discredit the investigation; if the judge rules in their favour all the evidence collected will be useless in a future case, if they name a new suspect/s their lawyer will simply point at the previous ruling and they'll walk away.

The job of the defence team is to bring justice to all parties. It would be a travesty of justice to see a pair of scapegoats sentenced to death for the a crime they did not commit.

The defence is quite right in its strategy of discrediting a lamentable (and probably corrupt) investigation. The RTP have bought that discredit upon themselves, and those that put their faith in them. They are already regarded as the most corrupt and inept institution in Thailand. This case will not sully their reputation any more; it will just reinforce it.

I almost feel pity for the prosecutors, who were probably pressured into accepting the case, after rejecting it several times as flawed. Maybe even they will be pleased to lose the murder and rape charges, and see the lads deported after being found guilty of immigration and labour charges (in which they were surely aided and abetted by those who employed them, but are not on trial).

[Trisha61]

Hannah's clothing was missing from the prosecution evidence this is FACT and a very significant one and lends reasonable people to assume wrong doing on the part of the prosecution, of course a couple of posters on here would rather forget that fact

[GOLDBUGGY]

The concept of a forum is a great one--a place for free and open debate.

I personally don't want to see anyone muzzled, banned, otherwise shut down, or even called a troll or shill if they are just expressing their honest opinion, even if it's abhorrent to others. In this case, if someone strongly believes the B2 did this crime, then I think that should be respected no matter how strongly one disagrees with it.

It's my personal opinion (FWIW, not much I know) that at least a couple of the members who appear to be sure the B2 are guilty are truly that, they believe what they write. If one or more is resistant to changing that opinion, it could well be due to their really believing it. There's a large segment of society that is constitutionally disposed to accepting whatever the authorities tell them, and they can't be blamed for that no matter how misguided they are.

Apologies if I seem patronising, sometimes it's worth spelling out the obvious.

So, that said.....to me it's become obvious with various members that they are NOT engaging in an honest debate, i.e. they don't believe what they write but are doing it to serve an ulterior agenda (or maybe just sow discord i.e. classic trolling). This becomes very clear when they are engaged in sincere debate by other members, but don't respond (because they can't) to the points raised, but instead obfuscate, misdirect, get ad hominem, etc.

I've long advocated the "ignore" function for such folks, as is being seconded (thirded, fourthed?) above. It's really the best solution for all IMO.

I am very much in sympathy with everything you write, with one caveat. Sometimes, messages like "the defense turned down the opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA", while just a cynical attempt to suggest doubt about the Burmese kids' innocence, can be convincing to those who do not follow the case closely. It is important in such cases to ensure such messages are put in proper context. The court of public opinion, while often flawed, is an important tool here for those who want justice for the scapegoats.

I am sorry but I wasn't trying to be cynical.

It was clearly reported in the Media that the Defense had this opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA, and the Defense refused. Which at that time even surprised the reporter. I to found it odd as it seemed to me that they have been asking for this for months. I am on record as saying that I hoped they would be allowed to retest all the DNA, and I still am.

Later the Defense gave their reasons for that. But if you do not believe the Defense and it suggests to you they are guilty, well then this is your own opinion which you are entitled to.

[catsanddogs]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

Someone else might have had a motive to get rid of them.

[Aj Mick]

From the overly nested post above: I would suggest that there is NO basis to form any conclusion either way.

The Judges will make that decision most likely without ever hearing your suggestion.

And they are more likely to agree with me rather than you. Of course this is Thailand, so anything could happen.

Agree, and unfortunately agree, stephenterry.

[GOLDBUGGY]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

Do you agree that if the B2 are found guilty it will not bring closure for the families……..?

The families must surely know, along with most others, Thai and non Thai alike, that to find a pair of Burmese scapegoats guilty would be a miscarriage of justice almost as horrendous as the crime they currently stand accused of.

The only people it would bring closure to are the real culprits who have wriggled out of the frame in diverse corrupt ways (but have certainly not been cleared), their clan and cohorts, and RTP and a few big shots who have backed them.

The RTP manpower per 100,000 of population is on the high side of average (@344 in 2012 according to wikipeadia). They should certainly not be short of resources, and have access to the resources of other countries if only they would use them. They have acted totally unprofessionally throughout, and lost, "used up" or otherwise made unavailable key pieces of forensic material so they are not available for independent testing. If that does not suggest a cover up, then the attempts by the powers that be to limit press coverage, surely must.

Well lets see if they run short of resources.

+200 DNA Sample to run with a minimum of 4 hours each plus documentation is 800 Hours. How many hours did you say they had left?

[catsanddogs]

From the overly nested post above: I would suggest that there is NO basis to form any conclusion either way.

The Judges will make that decision most likely without ever hearing your suggestion.

And they are more likely to agree with me rather than you. Of course this is Thailand, so anything could happen.

Says you. I would be more inclined to agree with you had there been previous reports of late night clothing robberies along the Koh Tao beaches ... or that the shoes that were missing were valuable Gucci loafers.

Here's one t shirt thief

So Maung was wearing the top at 1.52am. B2 said they went to bed sometime between 2 and 3am. Was it reported in the press that Maung said he left the B2 on the beach at 1am to see his girlfriend? Maung has a lot he needs to reveal so hope he is on the defence list for court.

[JLCrab]

So given the time lines and when and for how long they went swimming, the shirts might have had to have been stolen while they were still wearing them.

Edited September 16, 2015 by JLCrab

[mcm991]

Also from this post the Defense Team doesn't seem to have a problem running "Duplicated Samples" so I was surprised, like most, why they refused to run tests on the DNA from Hannah.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/24/uk-thailand-britain-murders-idUKKCN0PY0A820150724

because there was no way to prove its authenticity and the whole dna trail is corrupted and lost, I suspect on purpose for the very reason of making authentic retests impossible, all that is left is a cop saying the dna matched which is completely unacceptable in any court or very basic international standard that I am aware of - it is blatantly obvious that the police did not want this evidence retested so it was gotten rid of and therefore is inadmissible as evidence - anything with a brain the size of a meat ball could work that out.

and how many times do you have to be told this - I know from me it is at least 20 times now

I didn't write this Media Report. I only linked it.

It is not my fault the the Forensic Expert doesn't agree with you and says nothing is lost or corrupt and that all DNA was Replicated. Or the Defense saying they where happy about that and now have to decide what they want to retest.

So for the 20th time if you have a problem with what this media report says, then perhaps you should take it up with the writer, and not the messenger?

Before you post it 21 times ..... do some homework on what 'replicated DNA' actually refers to. (there is a really good post on this subject a week or two ago)

Perhaps then you will be able to figure out why the defence (or anyone else for that matter) is not remotely interested in it.

[BritTim]

I am very much in sympathy with everything you write, with one caveat. Sometimes, messages like "the defense turned down the opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA", while just a cynical attempt to suggest doubt about the Burmese kids' innocence, can be convincing to those who do not follow the case closely. It is important in such cases to ensure such messages are put in proper context. The court of public opinion, while often flawed, is an important tool here for those who want justice for the scapegoats.

I am sorry but I wasn't trying to be cynical.

It was clearly reported in the Media that the Defense had this opportunity to retest Hannah's DNA, and the Defense refused. Which at that time even surprised the reporter. I to found it odd as it seemed to me that they have been asking for this for months. I am on record as saying that I hoped they would be allowed to retest all the DNA, and I still am.

Later the Defense gave their reasons for that. But if you do not believe the Defense and it suggests to you they are guilty, well then this is your own opinion which you are entitled to.

If a semen sample still exists, I would very much like to see it tested. It may be that you have not read up on DNA testing and carefully read what the (deliberately confusing) statements of the prosecution witnesses imply. When a prosecution witness said that the samples "were used up", he was referring to the original samples. When a later witness referred to "replicated DNA" this refers to an intermediate step in the DNA testing process where cells are extracted and their DNA amplified. It is normal to keep some of this replicated DNA to run additional tests, but it is substantially different from the original sample. You cannot tell whether it originated with semen, saliva, sweat or whatever. Further, it degrades quite rapidly. To retest degraded replicated DNA taken from samples that were not properly documented and provided by the RTP that you already believe have falsified the results does not make sense.

When the defense were told the DNA samples were still available for retesting, they (like nearly everyone else) failed to read the small print. Only when they discussed this with forensic experts did they understand the truth.

[Aj Mick]

What's unfortunate is that even if the B2 are found not guilty, there still won't be any "closure" for the families of David and Hannah. The RTP will simply drop the case, and never seriously go after anyone else. They've been paid too well to do that.

I do agree with you that if the B2 are found not guilty that there probably won't be any closure on this case for the families, but not for the reasons you suggest. I feel it will because they will never be able to tie anyone else to this murder because of this DNA.

We know (or think at least) that matching DNA Samples from the accused to the victim have astronomical odds. DNA Testing takes a lot of the guess work out of the picture. But DNA Testing is also not a perfect science either.

If the Defense can show mishandling of the DNA in collection, distribution, and testing, to the point it discredits the DNA Samples, then these DNA Samples are spoiled. Not spoiled just for this case, but any others that may follow. How can you justify in a court of law that you are 100% sure that this match is the accused sitting their, then the next month say you were wrong? That now you are sure you have the right ones and right match this time.

It is nice to think that a country like Thailand has unlimited manpower and resources to solve a case, but like many other they don't. I would venture to guess (and it is only a guess) that Thailand has probably spent more manpower and resources on this case then they normally do. So I can't see them later spending more on a case that they may never be able to prove or solve. Baring new information or a confession that can be believed, which I also don't see coming this way after a year.

For the NS Conspiracy Theorists his DNA has been tested already and came up Negative. You can never get away from that now as any lawyer would bring this up. One day not him, but the next day it is??? Even if you could prove his DNA was doctored, and a bride was involved, which I highly doubt as after a year nothing of the kind has happened, you will still never be able to tie him to Hannah's DNA. As that would have been proved already that this was spoiled from this case. So even if they wanted to go after him, which I see absolutely no reason why they would or should, they would know they would never be able to prove this anyway. So why bother?

Do you agree that if the B2 are found guilty it will not bring closure for the families……..?

The families must surely know, along with most others, Thai and non Thai alike, that to find a pair of Burmese scapegoats guilty would be a miscarriage of justice almost as horrendous as the crime they currently stand accused of.

The only people it would bring closure to are the real culprits who have wriggled out of the frame in diverse corrupt ways (but have certainly not been cleared), their clan and cohorts, and RTP and a few big shots who have backed them.

The RTP manpower per 100,000 of population is on the high side of average (@344 in 2012 according to wikipeadia). They should certainly not be short of resources, and have access to the resources of other countries if only they would use them. They have acted totally unprofessionally throughout, and lost, "used up" or otherwise made unavailable key pieces of forensic material so they are not available for independent testing. If that does not suggest a cover up, then the attempts by the powers that be to limit press coverage, surely must.

Well lets see if they run short of resources.

+200 DNA Sample to run with a minimum of 4 hours each plus documentation is 800 Hours. How many hours did you say they had left?

If the Burmese lads go down because they lack the resources to discredit a seriously flawed investigation by the RTP, resulting in the seriously flawed case bought by the prosecutors, it would be a travesty of justice.

It would bring closure only to the real culprits, their amoral clan, mates and supporters (a few here among them), and their corrupt protectors, as ya'll (figuratively) dance upon the graves of the deceased…..

Edited September 16, 2015 by Aj Mick

[Aj Mick]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

So you can see my posts.

1. Do you now believe the the B2 were tortured into confessing?

2. Do you honestly believe the prosecution's case against the B2?

And…….

1. Why your interest in this case?

2. What is your connection to Koh Tao, and those involved in the case?

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Reminder Koh Tao murder trial will re-commence for 4 final defense witness days of 18 day scheduled hearings 22-25 Sept at Koh Samui court.

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

The defense team will call expert witnesses concerning DNA, torture, crime scene investigation and migrant worker Koh Tao situation/policy

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao murder case defendants Wai Phyo/Zaw Linn yet to complete/start their testimony 2 Samui court, international experts still remain too

Edited September 16, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[T_Dog]

Has the photo mentioned in this article ever been published or found?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

[GOLDBUGGY]

We all know that the DNA is all the prosecution has left so it is the crux of the case no but I cannot remember the order. Did they arrest the B2 because they matched their DNA prior, or did they arrest them first and then get a DNA match after their arrest?

Match was after confessions - who would have thought it?

So they had no DNA match, they arrested the B2, THEN they say they found David's phone behind their residence, and THEN they matched their DNA.

So what led them to arrest the B2 in the first place??

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

[BoristheBlade]

There are no samples left for a simple, but very important reason.

They could and almost certainly would implicate people who are at large on Koh Tao and make liars of the leader of the country and the police.

In any civilised court if the prosecution was to tell the court that all samples were lost or "used" I would expect the judge to dismiss the case immediately and probably humiliate the prosecution publicly.

But this is Thailand....

[stephenterry]

We all know that the DNA is all the prosecution has left so it is the crux of the case no but I cannot remember the order. Did they arrest the B2 because they matched their DNA prior, or did they arrest them first and then get a DNA match after their arrest?

Match was after confessions - who would have thought it?

So they had no DNA match, they arrested the B2, THEN they say they found David's phone behind their residence, and THEN they matched their DNA.

So what led them to arrest the B2 in the first place??

A DNA Match from a Cigarette Butt found near the crime scene and log which matched Hannah's. Upon further investigation they tracked it down to 3 migrant workers playing a guitar there on the night of the murders. During this investigation they announced to the Media that they were looking for these people playing a guitar.

Win soon after took a night ferry and was caught the next morning on the Mainland, where he was taken in for questioning. Win was the first to confess which lead to Lin and Muang's arrest shortly afterwards. Muang was released when his DNA did not match Hannah's, Win and Lin said he was not involved, and he had an alibi as he left earlier to be with his girlfriend.

NONE of which has been substantiated. I would think you have understood that by now. Clearly not. There has been no testimony other than we have a DNA match by a procession of senior police officers. How many more times does that need to be explained or are you thick?

[sweatalot]

From the overly nested post above: I would suggest that there is NO basis to form any conclusion either way.

The Judges will make that decision most likely without ever hearing your suggestion.

.. but hopefully not without considering and pondering the defense material

[thailandchilli]

Says you. I would be more inclined to agree with you had there been previous reports of late night clothing robberies along the Koh Tao beaches ... or that the shoes that were missing were valuable Gucci loafers.

And they are more likely to agree with me rather than you. Of course this is Thailand, so anything could happen.

Here's one t shirt thief

So Maung was wearing the top at 1.52am. B2 said they went to bed sometime between 2 and 3am. Was it reported in the press that Maung said he left the B2 on the beach at 1am to see his girlfriend? Maung has a lot he needs to reveal so hope he is on the defence list for court.

No if you look at the time stamp with MM it states 2.01am +52 sec but yes the B2 said they left the beach between 2 and 3am. I agree MM has more information I'm sure, but he's in Burma and won't be returning.

[JLCrab]

From the overly nested post above: I would suggest that there is NO basis to form any conclusion either way.

The Judges will make that decision most likely without ever hearing your suggestion.

.. but hopefully not without considering and pondering the defense material

The Judges may consider this: Is the defense's alibi credible?

[GOLDBUGGY]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

Unless of course if someone left a pair of shoes or other clothes at the crime scene they swore they were never at. I do know some of these were checked and a DNA Test was carried out on some shoes. I wonder why they would do a DNA Test on those if they just belonged to David or Hannah.

But then if you went for a swim and when you got out your clothes and shoes weren't their, well then anyone could have taken them. Even the real Murder who may have left them at the crime scene for all we know.

[thailandchilli]

From the overly nested post above: I would suggest that there is NO basis to form any conclusion either way.

The Judges will make that decision most likely without ever hearing your suggestion.

.. but hopefully not without considering and pondering the defense material

The Judges may consider this: Is the defense's alibi credible?

Whatever you say Crab carry on with the last word as normal, par for the course

[z42]

Troll posts and replies have been removed.

Look harder, plenty more that I can see that have been missed. Just saying

[stephenterry]

The clothes that the suspects were wearing on the night of they allegedly carried out a bloody murder, not important.

It's not as if they were involved in the murders they would have a motive to get rid of them or anything...

Unless of course if someone left a pair of shoes or other clothes at the crime scene they swore they were never at. I do know some of these were checked and a DNA Test was carried out on some shoes. I wonder why they would do a DNA Test on those if they just belonged to David or Hannah.

But then if you went for a swim and when you got out your clothes and shoes weren't their, well then anyone could have taken them. Even the real Murder who may have left them at the crime scene for all we know.

Give it a rest GB. The only missing clothes of any consequence are those of Hannah's. I think even you would realize that DNA on them would identify the murderers. And maybe even you could understand that the absence of any provided by the prosecution shows that the b2 are scapegoats.

[Basil B]

So Maung was wearing the top at 1.52am. B2 said they went to bed sometime between 2 and 3am. Was it reported in the press that Maung said he left the B2 on the beach at 1am to see his girlfriend? Maung has a lot he needs to reveal so hope he is on the defence list for court.

He does not need a defence list... he is not on trail.

Though I am starting too losing the plot here... I think we need a "Who's Who" thread.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Basil B

[thailandchilli]

They may want to try and find out who the blonde hair belongs to also that was in Hannah's hand, and those snagged in an iphone. Thats if it was blonde, great forensics dept that cant establish the colour of a hair let alone extract DNA. Perhaps they should have brought it to court and asked somebody that was not colour blind........oh wait do they know where it is now???

The doctor revealed also that he found a hair pulled out at its root in Ms Witheridge’s hand that he thought was blonde. “It was sent to the lab to be tested, but they were unable to establish its colour,” said Dr Pawat. “To my eyes, it was blonde.”

Edited September 16, 2015 by thailandchilli