Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[Gweiloman]

David was an adult, not a child, why would his parents need to know the IMIE number of their adult son?

The IMIE number is also on the iphone box, mine was on the side, it's possible that the parents found the box, and sent the IMIE number to Thailand for verification/confirmation, as it's already been pointed out to you, and oddly enough it's been pointed out many times here by posters, the IMIE was never confirmed, now it has.

Does it prove murder? no all it proves is nothing really, and it's also been shown that an IMIE number can be changed with software, pretty much the same as a single still from a CCTV isn't proof of being in a place at a certain time.

Would I be in the least bit surprised that certain information contained within every single Koh Tao thread doesn't make its way to the RTP investigating this case? Not in the slightest, people here who are in denial, have interests with the more darker side of Koh Tao.

Don't be surprised in the slightest that the RTP have been using these threads via their proxies and the contents to "assist them" in their dismal initial investigation.

What it definitely proofs is that the accused were in the possession of the phone of the murder victim.

It doesn't proof they murdered them, but it surely puts them in very hot water.

If the phone was smashed it most probably would not work anymore, and they would not be able to upload a "fake" IMEI number to it. Anyway the RTP didn't know David's IMEI number until a few days ago, so they wouldn't know which number to install in the phone.

I don't know about an Iphone, but all phones I have owned had the IMEI number under the battery, so no need to have a functional phone to discover the IMEI.

Imagine this scenario.

An altercation between DM and perps unknown takes place sometime after 2 am and before 4 am by the area where the B2 were earlier sitting, playing the guitar and having some drinks and smoking some cigarettes. During said altercation, DM's phone fell out of his pocket (he is unlikely to then put his hand up and said timeout, let me pick up my phone first). Said altercation continues, possible with DM running a distance away, towards where his body was eventually discovered (another possibility is that he was dragged to where his body was eventually discovered).

Sometime after said altercation, WP returns to where he was earlier to look for his shoes? guitar? I can't remember which. He finds a phone lying next to the log. He picks it up - whether he intends to keep it or hand it over to the police is irrelevant. He can't find the stuff he went to look for. He returns to his quarters and goes to sleep.

Very unlucky for him, as it turns out. Just imagine if you were walking along Sukhumvit and find a wallet in the street. There is a police station 100 metres ahead of you. As a good citizen, you pick the wallet up and start walking towards the police station to hand it in as a lost and found item. Halfway there, the owner of the wallet who mistakenly thought his wallet was stolen is walking back with some police. They stop and search you and find the wallet in your possession. Very unlucky for you. But, did you steal his wallet?

With regards to an iPhone and IMEI, since you don't know about it, you should have kept quiet instead of .............

[minikev]

Please refrain from calling me a troll simply because my version of events differs from yours.

Simply answer this question - how was it possible that David's phone was stolen from his pocket by Wei if, as they claimed, that they "never went anywhere near the crime scene" in fact they didn't even know that a rape and double murder had taken place on the beach that night if I recall rightly!!

Also, don't you think that the fact that they incriminated themselves by admitting that they violated Hannah's body carries a little bit of weight as to their guilt!!

If you can answer these two questions in a convincing manner then you may call me for trolling.

I will ask you again...The B2's DNA was not on the murder weapon....Others were...

Your thoughts.......?

I am starting to believe the B2 know more about this than they are letting on

admitting to "finding" what turns out to be Davids black coloured i phone on a sandy beach in the pitch dark sounds rather fortunate to say the least

losing clothes on the beach after going for a swim?...how far out were they swimming?...who would be around to steal cheap clothes in the middle of the night...its a useful tale if the clothes had blood on them

maybe i have missed something but when was this said?.. "the fact that they incriminated themselves by admitting that they violated Hannah's body"...?

i do not think they acted alone if in fact they were involved which would explain why their DNA was not on the hoe

with regard to the running man is there a possibility it could be their buddy who supposedly left the beach earlier to visit his g/f.....was his alibi fully checked out?

Yeh you missed something!

[stephenterry]

More IF's.

Why would the bib ask the family for David's IMEI? Is it it normal that parents know the IMEI's from their children's phone?

you must be missing the news

Mr Miller's family claimed to have secured the identifying number of their son's phone and passed it to the Thai Embassy, after there was conflicting testimony as to whether the British authorities had helped the prosecution confirm ownership.

http://news.sky.com/story/1567511/british-family-intervenes-in-thai-murders-trial

No I didn't miss the news, in fact they came up with that almost a year after the phone was found, and that sounds to me as if they stumbled by coincidence on the IMEI number by going through Davids pc.

Do you have children and know the IMEI numbers of their phones?

David was an adult, not a child, why would his parents need to know the IMIE number of their adult son?

The IMIE number is also on the iphone box, mine was on the side, it's possible that the parents found the box, and sent the IMIE number to Thailand for verification/confirmation, as it's already been pointed out to you, and oddly enough it's been pointed out many times here by posters, the IMIE was never confirmed, now it has.

Does it prove murder? no all it proves is nothing really, and it's also been shown that an IMIE number can be changed with software, pretty much the same as a single still from a CCTV isn't proof of being in a place at a certain time.

Would I be in the least bit surprised that certain information contained within every single Koh Tao thread doesn't make its way to the RTP investigating this case? Not in the slightest, people here who are in denial, have interests with the more darker side of Koh Tao.

Don't be surprised in the slightest that the RTP have been using these threads via their proxies and the contents to "assist them" in their dismal initial investigation.

What it definitely proofs is that the accused were in the possession of the phone of the murder victim.

It doesn't proof they murdered them, but it surely puts them in very hot water.

If the phone was smashed it most probably would not work anymore, and they would not be able to upload a "fake" IMEI number to it. Anyway the RTP didn't know David's IMEI number until a few days ago, so they wouldn't know which number to install in the phone.

I don't know about an Iphone, but all phones I have owned had the IMEI number under the battery, so no need to have a functional phone to discover the IMEI.

There is no proof that the b2 murdered either of the victims. Get your head around it. Any court of law outside Thailand couldn't convict them. There's no DNA evidence. Period.

I suggest you take some reading lessons. Did I say it proofs they murdered either of the victims?

By implication, yes it could be inferred. I suggest you take English lessons to make sure that your posts are not misinterpreted.

[TheCruncher]

David was an adult, not a child, why would his parents need to know the IMIE number of their adult son?

The IMIE number is also on the iphone box, mine was on the side, it's possible that the parents found the box, and sent the IMIE number to Thailand for verification/confirmation, as it's already been pointed out to you, and oddly enough it's been pointed out many times here by posters, the IMIE was never confirmed, now it has.

Does it prove murder? no all it proves is nothing really, and it's also been shown that an IMIE number can be changed with software, pretty much the same as a single still from a CCTV isn't proof of being in a place at a certain time.

Would I be in the least bit surprised that certain information contained within every single Koh Tao thread doesn't make its way to the RTP investigating this case? Not in the slightest, people here who are in denial, have interests with the more darker side of Koh Tao.

Don't be surprised in the slightest that the RTP have been using these threads via their proxies and the contents to "assist them" in their dismal initial investigation.

What it definitely proofs is that the accused were in the possession of the phone of the murder victim.

It doesn't proof they murdered them, but it surely puts them in very hot water.

If the phone was smashed it most probably would not work anymore, and they would not be able to upload a "fake" IMEI number to it. Anyway the RTP didn't know David's IMEI number until a few days ago, so they wouldn't know which number to install in the phone.

I don't know about an Iphone, but all phones I have owned had the IMEI number under the battery, so no need to have a functional phone to discover the IMEI.

Imagine this scenario.

An altercation between DM and perps unknown takes place sometime after 2 am and before 4 am by the area where the B2 were earlier sitting, playing the guitar and having some drinks and smoking some cigarettes. During said altercation, DM's phone fell out of his pocket (he is unlikely to then put his hand up and said timeout, let me pick up my phone first). Said altercation continues, possible with DM running a distance away, towards where his body was eventually discovered (another possibility is that he was dragged to where his body was eventually discovered).

Sometime after said altercation, WP returns to where he was earlier to look for his shoes? guitar? I can't remember which. He finds a phone lying next to the log. He picks it up - whether he intends to keep it or hand it over to the police is irrelevant. He can't find the stuff he went to look for. He returns to his quarters and goes to sleep.

Very unlucky for him, as it turns out. Just imagine if you were walking along Sukhumvit and find a wallet in the street. There is a police station 100 metres ahead of you. As a good citizen, you pick the wallet up and start walking towards the police station to hand it in as a lost and found item. Halfway there, the owner of the wallet who mistakenly thought his wallet was stolen is walking back with some police. They stop and search you and find the wallet in your possession. Very unlucky for you. But, did you steal his wallet?

With regards to an iPhone and IMEI, since you don't know about it, you should have kept quiet instead of .............

I don't imagine any scenarios. Imagining scenarios are the brainchild of conspiracy theorists.

Regarding the IMEI of an Iphone, the truth seems to hurt you.

SIM CARD TRAY: The serial number and IMEI will be printed on the SIM tray of the iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 (GSM model), and iPhone 4S, as shown below. When an iPhone 4S is activated on a CDMA carrier, the SIM tray displays both the MEID and the IMEI number as 15 digits.Oct 2, 2012

How to Find the IMEI Number of Your iPhone - iClarified

www.iclarified.com/24882/how-to-find-the-imei-number-of-your-iphone

The IMEI number is engraved on the reverse of your iPhone. Flip the iPhone over and look for the long number engraved at the end of the text (the bit starting with "Designed by Apple in California"). The IMEI text is incredibly small, though, so you may need a magnifying glass. And once again you'll need to write it down manually.

Edited October 12, 2015 by TheCruncher

[Gweiloman]

Clearly the fact that there was no b2 DNA found on the hoe that was used to murder Hannah escapes some posters. The constant deviation of a phone is typical of misinformation deliberately used by trolls.

"Dr Pornthip, Thailand’s most famous forensic scientist, told the court that DNA would have been left on the hoe by anyone who handled it for more than 15 seconds."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11857706/British-backpacker-murder-trial-DNA-on-murder-weapon-does-not-match-accused.html

So maybe they didn't hold it for more than 15 seconds.

Try and get yourself up to speed on the crime. Take a look at the wounds on both the victims and tell me that that could be done in less than 15 seconds. Geez, some people.............

[Darkknight666]

The prosecution did show their hand somewhat today, Bringing last second evidence out and almost certainly by influencing the Miller family. It's shows, to me, that they're not at all confident in their case at this point, and they shouldn't be as most of us are aware. I have one last shred of hope and that is the judges do the right thing.

Don't engage the trolls guys! I know it's hard but chaos is what they seek... Don't participate in that junk.

[stephenterry]

There is no DNA evidence to support the Rtp assertions. Good and troll elsewhere.

The DNA match is clearly in the prosecution case.

As for being Troll should start with yourself that are showing here a sufficiently eloquent blindness.

The DNA match has been asserted but not substantiated. I consider you to be a troll. Go and troll elsewhere.

[Gweiloman]

Don't be surprised in the slightest that the RTP have been using these threads via their proxies and the contents to "assist them" in their dismal initial investigation.

What it definitely proofs is that the accused were in the possession of the phone of the murder victim.

It doesn't proof they murdered them, but it surely puts them in very hot water.

If the phone was smashed it most probably would not work anymore, and they would not be able to upload a "fake" IMEI number to it. Anyway the RTP didn't know David's IMEI number until a few days ago, so they wouldn't know which number to install in the phone.

I don't know about an Iphone, but all phones I have owned had the IMEI number under the battery, so no need to have a functional phone to discover the IMEI.

Imagine this scenario.

An altercation between DM and perps unknown takes place sometime after 2 am and before 4 am by the area where the B2 were earlier sitting, playing the guitar and having some drinks and smoking some cigarettes. During said altercation, DM's phone fell out of his pocket (he is unlikely to then put his hand up and said timeout, let me pick up my phone first). Said altercation continues, possible with DM running a distance away, towards where his body was eventually discovered (another possibility is that he was dragged to where his body was eventually discovered).

Sometime after said altercation, WP returns to where he was earlier to look for his shoes? guitar? I can't remember which. He finds a phone lying next to the log. He picks it up - whether he intends to keep it or hand it over to the police is irrelevant. He can't find the stuff he went to look for. He returns to his quarters and goes to sleep.

Very unlucky for him, as it turns out. Just imagine if you were walking along Sukhumvit and find a wallet in the street. There is a police station 100 metres ahead of you. As a good citizen, you pick the wallet up and start walking towards the police station to hand it in as a lost and found item. Halfway there, the owner of the wallet who mistakenly thought his wallet was stolen is walking back with some police. They stop and search you and find the wallet in your possession. Very unlucky for you. But, did you steal his wallet?

With regards to an iPhone and IMEI, since you don't know about it, you should have kept quiet instead of .............

I don't imagine any scenarios. Imagining scenarios are the brainchild of conspiracy theorists.

Regarding the IMEI of an Iphone, the truth seems to hurt you.

SIM CARD TRAY: The serial number and IMEI will be printed on the SIM tray of the iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 (GSM model), and iPhone 4S, as shown below. When an iPhone 4S is activated on a CDMA carrier, the SIM tray displays both the MEID and the IMEI number as 15 digits.Oct 2, 2012

How to Find the IMEI Number of Your iPhone - iClarified

www.iclarified.com/24882/how-to-find-the-imei-number-of-your-iphone

deleted

Edited October 12, 2015 by Gweiloman

[lucky11]

My first comment after reading and keeping abreast of the events. If I murdered someone on a beach at night I would certainly not pick up the victim's phone. If it was on KT island I would not pick up the phone to later smash it nor would I hand it in to the BIBs. Sorry if this has been covered before , but only today have I read so much about a smashed phone.

Exactly!! WP said as much himself with the following quote:

The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might belong to someone involved

Heard about the murders .

Your insinuation thus is that Wei Phyo knew about the murders. Share with us the evidence, otherwise, it's just an opinion, to which you're entitled.

What, so all of yours (and others) comical conspiracy theories are all facts are they?

Prove to me that they were tortured and threatened first. Some of the scenarios thought up by you super sleuths out there are so laughable that I'm surprised that I haven't fallen off the couch yet or got a stitch!!

You can try and ridicule me as much as you like - you won't get to me and I won't stop giving my views.

I feel sorry for you 'bigoted' lot - keep the barbs coming, I won't relent!!

[Nemesis7]

These RTP will realize the pain if any one from their own beloved ends up in the same scene

[boomerangutang]

Did I understand correctly that one of the defendants admits to finding the phone at 4 a.m.? And he still admits to it? To be honest, I haven't been following the case that closely lately. But if that's true, and he's truly innocent, then that's pretty bad luck on his part, isn't it?

And exceptionally good luck on the part of the police, if one would assume the theory that those two men were picked up as scapegoats what a fantastic coincidence that they'd try to frame up the two guys who just happened to had found that phone.

No, no coincidences, obviously they had found other evidence that pointed at those two men before the phone was found

Confirmation on the phone proves that the police had solid grounds to arrest them; the framing theories are now even more detached from reality than before, the insinuations that the Miller family were having doubts about the guilt of the defendants are blown away too.

Yes AleG, we know you're rooting for a guilty verdict. From the way this trial has been imploding for establishment forces, any little crumb would be looked upon as a feast for those wanting the B2 to be nailed. Wai apparently says he found the phone at the beach at 4 a.m. The crime most likely happened between 4:30 and 5 am. So he finds a phone a half hour before a crime, is that incriminating? Also, the phone was found far (50 to 100 meters?) from the crime scene - I don't know the exact words relating to distance, but saw a court observer saying 'far from crime scene'.

According the AH, he thinks the prosecution's case primarily hangs on their (RTP's) assertion of DNA in Hannah matching both the defendants'. Yet there's a problem with that: No hard evidence backing up the DNA trail. Only hearsay from RTP. Will the judges choose to believe the RTP regardless of no trail, or......?

Any reasonable person would see there are cartloads of other evidence and lack-of-evidence which clear the B2, but with the Thai establishment so bent on a conviction, it's still a toss-up. It would be like a football game where the establishment team just needed a one goal advantage to win, but the visiting team (defendants) needed a 30 goal advantage to win. 29 goals ahead by the closing whistle, and they lose the game.

[Fat Haggis]

looks to me like there an effort to bait posters and get this thread locked again.

[Gweiloman]

Heard about the murders .

Your insinuation thus is that Wei Phyo knew about the murders. Share with us the evidence, otherwise, it's just an opinion, to which you're entitled.

What, so all of yours (and others) comical conspiracy theories are all facts are they?

Prove to me that they were tortured and threatened first. Some of the scenarios thought up by you super sleuths out there are so laughable that I'm surprised that I haven't fallen off the couch yet or got a stitch!!

You can try and ridicule me as much as you like - you won't get to me and I won't stop giving my views.

I feel sorry for you 'bigoted' lot - keep the barbs coming, I won't relent!!

In order to ensure that the thread stays open, the mods have advised that we stick to the topic which is what I fully intend to do.

Courtesy dictates that when asked a question, I should reply. Nowhere in my hundreds of posts on this topic have I mentioned anything as fact that is not proven as fact. For eg, it is a fact that the B2 were on the beach on the night of the murders. Does not mean that they murdered David and Hannah. Not one person believes that the wounds on David were caused by the hoe. However, I did not say that it is a fact that a hoe did not inflict those wounds.

So, in response to your first sentence, my theories are exactly that - theories, not facts.

Asking me to prove to you that they were tortured is no different from me asking you to prove that they were not. Neither of us can do either. So your request is (as I'm sure you know), a baiting statement.

With regards to scenarios that you find laughable, the idea is that you should poke holes in it, not laugh at it. I take it that you've never had a debating session whilst in school?

As for ridiculing you, I am doing no such thing. Just disproving your theories and so called facts, either with evidence or with logic. Try doing the same sometime.

[stephenterry]

My first comment after reading and keeping abreast of the events. If I murdered someone on a beach at night I would certainly not pick up the victim's phone. If it was on KT island I would not pick up the phone to later smash it nor would I hand it in to the BIBs. Sorry if this has been covered before , but only today have I read so much about a smashed phone.

Exactly!! WP said as much himself with the following quote:

The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might belong to someone involved

Heard about the murders .

Your insinuation thus is that Wei Phyo knew about the murders. Share with us the evidence, otherwise, it's just an opinion, to which you're entitled.

What, so all of yours (and others) comical conspiracy theories are all facts are they?

Prove to me that they were tortured and threatened first. Some of the scenarios thought up by you super sleuths out there are so laughable that I'm surprised that I haven't fallen off the couch yet or got a stitch!!

You can try and ridicule me as much as you like - you won't get to me and I won't stop giving my views.

I feel sorry for you 'bigoted' lot - keep the barbs coming, I won't relent!!

I take it that you haven't been subjected to Rtp interrogation. You haven't a clue about what happens here. So much so that the law was changed to Not admit confessions obtained in an investigation in a court of law.

[Gweiloman]

Yes AleG, we know you're rooting for a guilty verdict. From the way this trial has been imploding for establishment forces, any little crumb would be looked upon as a feast for those wanting the B2 to be nailed. Wai apparently says he found the phone at the beach at 4 a.m. The crime most likely happened between 4:30 and 5 am. So he finds a phone a half hour before a crime, is that incriminating? Also, the phone was found far (50 to 100 meters?) from the crime scene - I don't know the exact words relating to distance, but saw a court observer saying 'far from crime scene'.

According the AH, he thinks the prosecution's case primarily hangs on their (RTP's) assertion of DNA in Hannah matching both the defendants'. Yet there's a problem with that: No hard evidence backing up the DNA trail. Only hearsay from RTP. Will the judges choose to believe the RTP regardless of no trail, or......?

Any reasonable person would see there are cartloads of other evidence and lack-of-evidence which clear the B2, but with the Thai establishment so bent on a conviction, it's still a toss-up. It would be like a football game where the establishment team just needed a one goal advantage to win, but the visiting team (defendants) needed a 30 goal advantage to win. 29 goals ahead by the closing whistle, and they lose the game.

I beg to differ boom. The establishment team does not need a one goal advantage, they just need a draw to win.

[TheCruncher]

My first comment after reading and keeping abreast of the events. If I murdered someone on a beach at night I would certainly not pick up the victim's phone. If it was on KT island I would not pick up the phone to later smash it nor would I hand it in to the BIBs. Sorry if this has been covered before , but only today have I read so much about a smashed phone.

Exactly!! WP said as much himself with the following quote:

The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might belong to someone involved

Heard about the murders .

Your insinuation thus is that Wei Phyo knew about the murders. Share with us the evidence, otherwise, it's just an opinion, to which you're entitled.

What, so all of yours (and others) comical conspiracy theories are all facts are they?

Prove to me that they were tortured and threatened first. Some of the scenarios thought up by you super sleuths out there are so laughable that I'm surprised that I haven't fallen off the couch yet or got a stitch!!

You can try and ridicule me as much as you like - you won't get to me and I won't stop giving my views.

I feel sorry for you 'bigoted' lot - keep the barbs coming, I won't relent!!

I take it that you haven't been subjected to Rtp interrogation. You haven't a clue about what happens here. So much so that the law was changed to Not admit confessions obtained in an investigation in a court of law.

Just a quick question.

Since you ridicule another posters comment since he can not know what happened because he hasn't been subject to RTP interrogation.

Are you knowledgeable of torture tactics, because you have been subject to RTP interrogation?

[stephenterry]

Heard about the murders .

Your insinuation thus is that Wei Phyo knew about the murders. Share with us the evidence, otherwise, it's just an opinion, to which you're entitled.

What, so all of yours (and others) comical conspiracy theories are all facts are they?

Prove to me that they were tortured and threatened first. Some of the scenarios thought up by you super sleuths out there are so laughable that I'm surprised that I haven't fallen off the couch yet or got a stitch!!

You can try and ridicule me as much as you like - you won't get to me and I won't stop giving my views.

I feel sorry for you 'bigoted' lot - keep the barbs coming, I won't relent!!

In order to ensure that the thread stays open, the mods have advised that we stick to the topic which is what I fully intend to do.

Courtesy dictates that when asked a question, I should reply. Nowhere in my hundreds of posts on this topic have I mentioned anything as fact that is not proven as fact. For eg, it is a fact that the B2 were on the beach on the night of the murders. Does not mean that they murdered David and Hannah. Not one person believes that the wounds on David were caused by the hoe. However, I did not say that it is a fact that a hoe did not inflict those wounds.

So, in response to your first sentence, my theories are exactly that - theories, not facts.

Asking me to prove to you that they were tortured is no different from me asking you to prove that they were not. Neither of us can do either. So your request is (as I'm sure you know), a baiting statement.

With regards to scenarios that you find laughable, the idea is that you should poke holes in it, not laugh at it. I take it that you've never had a debating session whilst in school?

As for ridiculing you, I am doing no such thing. Just disproving your theories and so called facts, either with evidence or with logic. Try doing the same sometime.

Excellent post.

[glenmohr]

This sham trial has been an exercise in cynicism.

Bangkok decided long ago that the B2 must be found guilty.

Therefore the date of Dec 24 has been selected to show the world what a horrible country Thailand can be at times and they are hoping on that date western countries will be too busy to notice. Shame on you Thailand.

[stephenterry]

My first comment after reading and keeping abreast of the events. If I murdered someone on a beach at night I would certainly not pick up the victim's phone. If it was on KT island I would not pick up the phone to later smash it nor would I hand it in to the BIBs. Sorry if this has been covered before , but only today have I read so much about a smashed phone.

Exactly!! WP said as much himself with the following quote:

The next day we heard about the murders and we were worried it might belong to someone involved

Heard about the murders .

Your insinuation thus is that Wei Phyo knew about the murders. Share with us the evidence, otherwise, it's just an opinion, to which you're entitled.

What, so all of yours (and others) comical conspiracy theories are all facts are they?

Prove to me that they were tortured and threatened first. Some of the scenarios thought up by you super sleuths out there are so laughable that I'm surprised that I haven't fallen off the couch yet or got a stitch!!

You can try and ridicule me as much as you like - you won't get to me and I won't stop giving my views.

I feel sorry for you 'bigoted' lot - keep the barbs coming, I won't relent!!

I take it that you haven't been subjected to Rtp interrogation. You haven't a clue about what happens here. So much so that the law was changed to Not admit confessions obtained in an investigation in a court of law.

Just a quick question.

Since you ridicule another posters comment since he can not know what happened because he hasn't been subject to RTP interrogation.

Are you knowledgeable of torture tactics, because you have been subject to RTP interrogation?

Read my post. The law was changed...

[Stuart21]

Yes AleG, we know you're rooting for a guilty verdict. From the way this trial has been imploding for establishment forces, any little crumb would be looked upon as a feast for those wanting the B2 to be nailed. Wai apparently says he found the phone at the beach at 4 a.m. The crime most likely happened between 4:30 and 5 am. So he finds a phone a half hour before a crime, is that incriminating? Also, the phone was found far (50 to 100 meters?) from the crime scene - I don't know the exact words relating to distance, but saw a court observer saying 'far from crime scene'.

According the AH, he thinks the prosecution's case primarily hangs on their (RTP's) assertion of DNA in Hannah matching both the defendants'. Yet there's a problem with that: No hard evidence backing up the DNA trail. Only hearsay from RTP. Will the judges choose to believe the RTP regardless of no trail, or......?

Any reasonable person would see there are cartloads of other evidence and lack-of-evidence which clear the B2, but with the Thai establishment so bent on a conviction, it's still a toss-up. It would be like a football game where the establishment team just needed a one goal advantage to win, but the visiting team (defendants) needed a 30 goal advantage to win. 29 goals ahead by the closing whistle, and they lose the game.

I beg to differ boom. The establishment team does not need a one goal advantage, they just need a draw to win.

Anybody know when they plan to show the video of the confessions, to show that they were not coerced?

[stephenterry]

This sham trial has been an exercise in cynicism.

Bangkok decided long ago that the B2 must be found guilty.

Therefore the date of Dec 24 has been selected to show the world what a horrible country Thailand can be at times and they are hoping on that date western countries will be too busy to notice. Shame on you Thailand.

I agree completely. Deliberate choice. The authorities are transparent in their deviousness. Double shame on you Thailand.

[Fat Haggis]

Now your deliberately trying to close the thread cruncher, it's very odd you "turning up " like this as you've been pretty inconspicuous in all the other Koh Tao threads

You're not offering anything new, just stoking the embers, where have you been all through the trial ?

Suspicious indeed.

[HUH]

The latest reports regards this phone must have the RTP jumping up and down and patting themselves on the back, even though the suspect admitted taking a phone anyway! Well its certainly got the RTP defenders going anyway. Lets face it they needed something to shout about because just about everything else so far displayed by them is in serious doubt.

Here's a very partial list of the serious doubts in the prosecution case:

Disappearing bite mark on Hannah's body pointed out by the UK coroner

Evidence gathered from a contaminated crime scene

No evidence of the rape of Hannah

DNA evidence presented by the prosecution lacks chain of custody documents so not verifiable by international standards

Cigarette butts destroyed and no longer available for dna testing

Hoe no DNA of suspects

Serious allegations of torture that need investigating independently but obviously wont be.

Torture allegations investigated by the Thai Human rights and they confirm it occurred.

Hair in Hannah's hand that does not belong to Hannah, David or the suspects

Hannahs clothes not tested and not produced in court as evidence

Massive contradictions in court from some of the prosecution witnesses with perjury seriously suspected and needing to be investigated.

A crime scene scenario that has been the basis of the RTP case has turned out to be completely unrealistic

Enough to give a guilty verdict on anyone?

[TheCruncher]

Now your deliberately trying to close the thread cruncher, it's very odd you "turning up " like this as you've been pretty inconspicuous in all the other Koh Tao threads

You're not offering anything new, just stoking the embers, where have you been all through the trial ?

Suspicious indeed.

I am a TV member same like all the others, and are entitled to my opinion, which doesn't need to be the same as your regardless of how much you regret that.

If you try to blame me, why don't you talk to your friend Gweiloman for baiting me?

[enufsaid]

If they've never been to thailand they wouldn't be aware of the corruption

[IslandLover]

fritzzz25, on 12 Oct 2015 - 08:18, said:

As Andy has stated

"Today, Wai Phyo testified in court he found an iPhone on the beach around 4am in the morning on 15th Sep 2014. Wai Phyo's friend testified on Oct 14 2014 previously in a pre-trial hearing that he has smashed this phone up and dumped it behind his house after Wai Phyo found it and gave it to him as was worried whose it was and that it may be related for the murders. That's all that has come to light today. Wai Phyo testified today he didn't know whether the phone the prosecution and police have in their possession and which allegedly matches the IMEI of David Miller's phone (as confirmed only by the deceased's parents, although the prosecution claim the UK government confirmed this phone as David's phone but the UK government deny they ever confirmed such information to the Thai Government) is the phone he found in the early morning of 15th Sep 2014 whilst out alone looking for his guitar and clothes. Wai Phyo denied that he took the mobile phone from the same place where the bodies of the deceased were found. Hope that clears up what was discussed today in court."

Questions were raised, and this was the reply

"You jump to many conclusions when you were not in the court and didn't hear the full testimony, my friend. Wai Phyo testified today he found the phone but he didn't care much for it as it was no battery. He asked his friend however to charge it and when charged, found it was security locked. Wai Phyo then gave the phone to his friend to do as they wanted. When he asked about the phone, his friend said he had already smashed it and thrown it behind the house. His friend also testified the same as that on Oct 14th 2014."

Available to the public on a famous social media site. This can clear up some of the information that has been posted by the media.

Yes indeed, Wei Phyo never said he smashed the phone and disposed of it himself. His friend did it of his own accord. Some friend that turned out to be. Where is that friend now? And how much was he paid? And who's to say that that particular smashed phone is the same one that has been confirmed as being David Miller's? We have seen photos in the press of several smashed phones being paraded by the RTP shortly after the murders.

[Nigeone]

OK so if I understand this correctly, the police compared semen found inside Hanna to these guys among many others and concluded a match, interrogated them and found them to be at the crime scene, and also found one of the victims phones. The police due to incompetence did not follow correct procedures and have botched up the DNA evidence. Now they have testified that at least one was in the area at 04:00. You guys all still think they are innocent?

Yes!! All your statements don't hold up...re read the last 3 months or so postings and come back with a sensible statement please

[HUH]

So one Burmese guy shouts to the other..

" Hey, don't hold that thing for more than 15 seconds, I read it on the Net and in the Sunday Times so must be true"

"Ok mate, 10 seconds now, will drop it for 10 then carry on"..."Sounds cool, watch your step, dumped phones all over the place"..

I know this is a serious subject but thats brilliant transam thanks for the smile you put on my face

[lucky11]

I'm going to keep repeating this. Neither of the b2 DNA was found on the hoe, the weapon that was used to murder Hannah. Her blood was on the blade. Anything else is circumstantial.

LOADS OF DNA ON THE MURDER WEAPON BUT NOT FROM THE B2..

IS THAT CLEAR..............?

Feeeeeeerk the phone, the hotdog wrapper, a zillion fags on the beach, but wait.....a coke bottle had the B2's DNA on it found in BKK....Must be them......

Gawd.....................

Clearly the fact that there was no b2 DNA found on the hoe that was used to murder Hannah escapes some posters. The constant deviation of a phone is typical of misinformation deliberately used by trolls.

"Dr Pornthip, Thailand’s most famous forensic scientist, told the court that DNA would have been left on the hoe by anyone who handled it for more than 15 seconds."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11857706/British-backpacker-murder-trial-DNA-on-murder-weapon-does-not-match-accused.html

So maybe they didn't hold it for more than 15 seconds.

Very true - explains why they didn't find DNA from the perpetrators of the crimes on the hoe!!

Dr Porntip has held a grudge with the RTP for a long long time and just doesn't she love being in the limelight with her 'rainbow hair' - it just say's 'look at me'. She was irked about being left out of the initial investigation (how can they do this to me, snubbing such an important and valuable resource) and so I believe she fabricated her findings to discredit the RTP. I wouldn't trust her with a barge pole and disregard her DNA evidence as being falsified just to undermine the police investigation.

[stephenterry]

The only certainty that matters is that the suspects DNA was not found on the hoe that was used to murder Hannah. How many more times does it take to emphasize that?