Looking For Opinions On An English Business In Thailand

[WilliamCave]

Hi I am looking for expat views on opening a business in Thailand with my Thai wife in the construction industry, services and consulting.

I lived there for 4 years and helped my Thai wife with her business and noticed that she needed help with the english clients and they were thrilled to speak to someone in english and do business with. Not to take away from Thai companies but her business prospects grew from it. That we could do all ur business in English

So what do you think of the idea that her and I are looking at starting another business dealing with westerns in thailand and foreign companies in the construction and consulting business.

Any opinions welcome

Thanks

Edited September 28, 2006 by WilliamCave

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi I am looking for expat views on opening a business in Thailand with my Thai wife in the construction industry, services and consulting.

I lived there for 4 years and helped my Thai wife with her business and noticed that she needed help with the english clients and they were thrilled to speak to someone in english and do business with. Not to take away from Thai companies but her business prospects grew from it. That we could do all ur business in English

So what do you think of the idea that her and I are looking at starting another business dealing with westerns in thailand and foreign companies in the construction and consulting business.

Any opinions welcome

Thanks

Many Westerners that are in the construction industry in Bangkok have a very hard time keeping control of their workers on the job site. We don’t mind paying a premium price if the standards were the same as the work done by the foreign company overseas. However never in one single case have we found it to be the case, this standard was maintained as massive delays always happen and the blueprints were not followed. Instead lots of frustration stories how hard it is to control the workers.

That has been our experience and why we now use exclusively Thai firms with no foreigners involved.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[billaaa777]

Sunbelt, you provide lots of great advice on legal on visa issues. But, you really should stick to your expertise. Because as builder of stunning luxury condos that sell almost before I am finished with them I find your comments insulting and besides that completely wrong.

I do a complete gut job on each unit and knock out a single in four weeks and a double in seven weeks. All with new kitchens and new bathrooms. I guarantee each condo for a year and never had even one call to fix anything. I would like to see one of your Thai builders do that.

I find it amazing actually, that now you are not only Thailand’s most knowledgeable expert on the new Visa regulations but you have expanded your expertise into the construction field and became experts there too. Just wondering while you were attending law school and doing all the studying required to be a lawyer how you found time to work in the construction industry, gain that experience and receive a construction engineers degrees simultaneously? Must be really talented!! Or just like everybody else in Thailand, say yes I can do anything just to try and make a buck.

The more I think about it I can’t believe you answered this question! I can just see your advertisement in the yellow pages.

Law Firm: Corporate Law, Property Law, Civil Law, and then down at the bottom of the page in bold print. “WE WILL ALSO BUILD YOUR HOUSE TOO”

Embarrassing!!!!!

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt, you provide lots of great advice on legal on visa issues. But, you really should stick to your expertise. Because as builder of stunning luxury condos that sell almost before I am finished with them I find your comments insulting and besides that completely wrong.

I do a complete gut job on each unit and knock out a single in four weeks and a double in seven weeks. All with new kitchens and new bathrooms. I guarantee each condo for a year and never had even one call to fix anything. I would like to see one of your Thai builders do that.

I find it amazing actually, that now you are not only Thailand’s most knowledgeable expert on the new Visa regulations but you have expanded your expertise into the construction field and became experts there too. Just wondering while you were attending law school and doing all the studying required to be a lawyer how you found time to work in the construction industry, gain that experience and receive a construction engineers degrees simultaneously? Must be really talented!! Or just like everybody else in Thailand, say yes I can do anything just to try and make a buck.

The more I think about it I can’t believe you answered this question! I can just see your advertisement in the yellow pages.

Law Firm: Corporate Law, Property Law, Civil Law, and then down at the bottom of the page in bold print. “WE WILL ALSO BUILD YOUR HOUSE TOO”

Embarrassing!!!!!

I was giving a first hand experience.

I own/co-own 14 restaurants, four office centers as well as a condo and had a team do construction on a house we rent. What happens when we take over a location? We gut it and we have a construction team design and build. Do any of our team grab a hammer? NO!!!

Four of these construction firms were foreign firms. We still are forced to use one of the firms for chairs because of our franchise agreement. Don't get me started... I'll take you to two locations where over 40 chairs are broken. This is nothing compared to a project. We order 20 chairs two months ago and just got 10 chairs delivered last week. They have a guarantee on the chairs, yeah right. We have made many calls, even giving them another order which has taken months to get any back.

The last time we used a foreign firm for construction was well over 18 months ago. Since then we have been involved with 11 locations. All with Thais with no problems except minor ones. Always taken care of right away.

I did not criticize your work. I talked about our experience with firms we have used. But you certainly criticize our firm and me. Come to our office and I'll be happy to show you the work that

we had done on our behalf. That gives me the right I feel to give an opinion.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Dakhar]

Ahhh

This reminds me of the stroll I took this morning through a 6K SQD training center being built on my mother-in-laws property. Ahh yes, the gypsonite ceilling tile that was supposed to e acoustic cielling tile.... The cielling was half way complete, before I found this out. Now we get to spray the cielling with noise abatement material.

Lovely

Sunbelt is a tip top co. BTY

[billaaa777]

Well at least as a prominent sponsor of the site you did not have me kicked off the site and have my ability to post discontinued, as I expected. I will give you that much credit.

But, you said it all in the first line of your reply, “I was giving a first hand experience.”

Well then give first hand experience and do not use your logo and web site as some kind of supporting documentation for your supposedly expertise in the field. Just post your opinions as the rest of us are required!!!

As far as your problems with your contractors, we all have those same problems. But, a good manager of a project, whom is on the ball, identifies potential problems immediately, develops alternate solutions to the issues, selects the most cost effective substitute, and implements the resolution as soon as possible and moves on to the next matter.

As opposed to stating that a particular segment of the population is not capable of performing various types of work. Where I come from that’s called DISCRINATION, but I guess not from you stand point.

And as far as criticizing your firm, I could not state my opinion on this matter any stronger! I truly appreciate the effort your firm has made to clarify the new vise regulations. In fact on more than one occasion “And I think you were the poster” I have stated what a great post you made. You have answered my questions more than once with quality answers at no cost to me. Your expertise, effort and support of the individuals that utilize this forum should be applauded and appreciated!!!

That being said, you utilized your logo and your web site as an expert in another field (Construction,) that in my opinion your law firm is not qualified to state quantitative supposed expert opinions on. At the very least you needed to state a disclaimer at the bottom of you post, stating as you declared above, such as; “I was giving a first hand experience based on personal experience which are not connected to our law firm on my personal projects.”

Let’s see what happens next.

[jdinasia]

So .... sunbelt succintly expresses their personal experience ....... and gets jumped by someone 'claiming' to know sunbelt's experience better than them? wow! Sorry ... That's not accurate ... gets jumped by someone that suggests that sunbelt should create another screenname and then post on anything not directly associated with his business. <Now since sunbelt helps people in so many different ways including finding contacts in many areas ... AND has personal experience ... I just don't see the issue!>

Sunbelt ---- Keep up the good work. <I am with you on the building topic as well .... when we redid the condo we gave the contract to a local company>

Edited September 30, 2006 by jdinasia

[LaoPo]

Gents:

Please allow me, as an outsider, to comment on this topic.

1. The OP, WilliamCave, asks a question: "for expat views on opening a business in Thailand with my Thai wife in the construction industry, services and consulting"

2. Sunbelt answers: (a.o.) "That has been our experience and why we now use exclusively Thai firms with no foreigners involved"

3. Billaaa777 answers (as an expat builder): "Because as builder of stunning luxury condos that sell almost before I am finished with them I find your comments insulting........"

4. WilliamCave, the OP, hasn't answered as of yet.

5. I think that Sunbelt as well as Billaaa777 are both right in their own way.

6. Billaaa777 felt attacked since the phrase of Sunbelt: "we now use exclusively Thai firms with no foreigners involved" is indeed, in my own opinion, a little harsh towards 'Qualified Expat builders' such as Billaaa777 (I don't know the man).

7. Maybe Sunbelt could have left out just 4 words......."...with no foreigners involved".

It would have been more chique and a little less 'discriminating' since not ALL (100%)-Thai OR (100%)-Expat builders are that good or that bad.

LaoPo

[englishoak]

It would have been more chique and a little less 'discriminating' since not ALL (100%)-Thai OR (100%)-Expat builders are that good or that bad

That is more like it

For the OP. As an idea about starting a farang builing co or consultancy I would probably suggest as a consultant firm would be better than engaging as a full construction company. At least until you are confident in your labour and sub-contractors to carry off a European standard of Construction. To be competetive on price yet not lose on quality is going to be a tough order in Thailand.

Personally if I was a punter I would love a Project Manager who can communicate in Thai but is a European Builder and finishes to those standards even if it costs a bit more.

In big construction projects it seems to be possible but operating as a small contractor often seems to mean cheaper materials,labour etc etc. All too often.

Quite honestly the build quality, materials and finishings in most of Asia ( but not all ) are mostly sub standard. As a consultantcy you can still act for the client without being liable for your sub contactors.

Sunbelt I am surprised you give such a damning statement re: foreign involvement but of course personal experience will colour anyones opinion. I suspect price comes into it a lot too.

Billaaa777 You sound like you have been here a while good luck to you.I would be curious to know if you employ a large team or even sub contractors on your jobs or are you doing work on a job by job basis with a smaller team?.

A lot of buildings I see here are very very cheaply done and will not last a decade without serious problems let alone a lifetime. The saying of you get what you pay for is quite true normally, the only problem is that some of the buildings I am talking about are in the 7M + and not the cheaper 2-3M range you would expect. Any cheaper than 2M is a bargain and you should not complain about anything much.Now when you consider my home in the UK is already 130 years old and is far far better built than most places I see in Thailand and for it's age is still in excellent condition. It's price although a lot higher is also far better value over time. That said i'd only want 40 years or so out of a house anyway so i'd not throw too much at a place anyway. 2-3M would be fine.

Just be real careful if you buy or construct and remember the labour may be cheap but often it's the materials that people/firms try to save on. I seriously would not expect any property built or purchased In Thailand to last like back home.

[Sunbelt Asia]

You'll find good construction companies and then you'll find bad construction companies.I want to clear up something else, NOT all Thai firms are good. We have heard nightmare stories as well bout them.

Why did we select a foreign firm in the first place?

Because you can easily communicate with them. They assure you that all problems will be handled. The quality of work you feel sjhould be high.

For that you expect to pay a premium price and do.

However in our case, this has unfortunately never worked out. I realize that us using four firms that were bad out of the one hundred foreign firms may of been bad luck. The other foreign 96 firms could be good. But its like touching a stove to see if it is hot or cold. After you get your hand burnt four times, you just don't want to go near the stove.

I'm not going to go into all the frustrations we had with these firms. Its like a bad beat story in poker, 90% of the people won't care and the other 10% will be happy.

Lets just sum it up like this, easily and I mean easily over 200 calls. It could even be 500+ calls for follow up problems. We are talking just 4 million Baht in projects. In every case, they always blame the screw-up on the Thais, that they would not listen to them.

With the one firm we use now, its been less than 5 calls to them on follow ups. Over 70 million Baht in projects. This firm gets it. As for price, this is not the biggest concern. We in fact have given them small projects without asking them how much it would cost. You grow to trust a firm that they are good and will not gouge you.

Now your firm may be just like the Thai firm. Maybe you know how to motivate and communicate with your staff in Pattaya. I did say this before...

Many Westerners that are in the construction industry in Bangkok have a very hard time keeping control of their workers on the job site.

I understood other firms do exist in other parts of Thailand we and have not used their service.

But what I don't like in your post, was you implying that Sunbelt said it to somehow benefit from the statement of using a Thai firm.

Stop and think about it.

If that was the case. It would be the stupidest post ever by Sunbelt.

Why?

Most of our business is with foreign firms. How could it benefit to speak highly of a Thai firm? Does this Thai firm need work permits, visas, company set up, usufruct, 30 year leases?

Will you use Sunbelt after a post talking about foreign construction firms in BKK?

How bout the Op? How do we benefit by saying its a hard business? No company set up, no visas, no work permit if the OP goes to another country. But what if he did come and had a hard time communicating and was told the opposite in the beginning. How does that help our firm?

Also, one of the foreign firms, we have used, asked us to refer foreigners to them and they would give us a 10% fee. The Thai firm, never offered and we never would ask or accept if asked. It's not how we do business. However, one thing is for sure, if I did reco this foreign firm to get the 10%, we would lose business because when the client had to make 50 or more calls, who is he going to blame? You got it... Sunbelt!

As for us, going to go into the construction business and build houses. LOL I rather put a gun to my head. It never ever will happen. But what I don't understand is for you to imply we would when I already said we have better luck with a Thai firm. How could we all of a sudden reverse this and then do it as a foreign firm? It would simply makes no sense.

We are honest and have found let the business take care of itself. Even if in the short term, it may of paid to say something different. It's how we do business.

Well at least as a prominent sponsor of the site you did not have me kicked off the site and have my ability to post discontinued, as I expected. I will give you that much credit.

We like a forum format and like feedback. But in your case, your post in refrence to our motive for the post was flat out wrong. It clearly was a very bad post by us if we were motivated by money, to post it. It was however, only my experience as a client of construction firms.

We wish you well in the business. We hope others give you a chance to prove yourself. Here's to you being just like the one of the construction firms we use now.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com