SURVEY: Is the rising anger in the NE likely to erupt into political violence?

[Fat Haggis]

I would also ask that if there is 'rising anger' - is someone winding them up?

Of course there is, they're called " The Junta" !!

Please tell everyone what steps have been taken by the current bunch to bring about peace and reconciliation ?

Constant locking up of "attitude adjustment" for having opinions that differ from the big Pooh bear?

Paranoia and lack of self control are creeping into the way in which the current establishment are going these days, they can't stand criticism, and have thrown more teddies and spat more dummies out in the past 10 months than the previous year.

Can't stand the heat? You should have stayed out of someone else's kitchen General!!

[robblok]

I would also ask that if there is 'rising anger' - is someone winding them up?

Of course there is, they're called " The Junta" !!

Please tell everyone what steps have been taken by the current bunch to bring about peace and reconciliation ?

Constant locking up of "attitude adjustment" for having opinions that differ from the big Pooh bear?

Paranoia and lack of self control are creeping into the way in which the current establishment are going these days, they can't stand criticism, and have thrown more teddies and spat more dummies out in the past 10 months than the previous year.

Can't stand the heat? You should have stayed out of someone else's kitchen General!!

I agree partly, that he is a bit too fanatical, however making sure that the reds don't rise and start an other round of street protests combined with the killing they always seem to do is important too.

If the politicians would think of the country and give critique without rabble-rousing it would be ok. However given the past of the politicians its unlikely they would not do so.

I feel the current government should help the farmers that are hit by the drought, and punish those that still farm even when told not too. But its bad that the current government has not made any good plans / promises for support yet.

[Sam Jones]

Violence definately - probably even something close to Civil War the way this Govt acts ...

[ianf]

I would also ask that if there is 'rising anger' - is someone winding them up?

Of course there is, they're called " The Junta" !!

Please tell everyone what steps have been taken by the current bunch to bring about peace and reconciliation ?

Constant locking up of "attitude adjustment" for having opinions that differ from the big Pooh bear?

Paranoia and lack of self control are creeping into the way in which the current establishment are going these days, they can't stand criticism, and have thrown more teddies and spat more dummies out in the past 10 months than the previous year.

Can't stand the heat? You should have stayed out of someone else's kitchen General!!

And please tell me... what about Thaksin, the self-exiled human rights abuser, serial murderer and king of corruption? Is he better than the Junta? Or are they both as bad as each other? Or perhaps worse than the Junta?

[LivinLOS]

The portrayal by a bangkok based media as the poor as scroungers radically undermines the facts..

In the 'good old days' that the military is trying to return us to.. The 80s and 90s.. The rural economy received 5 - 10% of the countries budget allocation..

In 2001 that had risen to 16%.. and now it is in the low to mid 20% range.. Bangkok has 16% of the Thai population and 70% of its tax revenue.. Isaan has 30% the countries population and gets 6% of its revenue !!! A bangkok Thai gets 100's of per cent more proportionally spent on them.. Bangkok gets 400% the education budget per child.. 16x the medical spending per person..

But as Thailand works mostly on consumption taxes even tho income tax payments from the poor is low they contribute too.. VAT makes 50% of the government revenue and the poor pay that dis-proportionally than the rich.

Yet the yellow media would have you believe its the poor wanting handouts.. How about reducing the bangkok budget to nearer equality to the rural budgets based on populations..

These numbers are no longer a secret to the poor.. They know they are being given the crumbs while being accused of asking for too much.. The insult that is being told to live a 'sufficiency economy' while single shopping malls in bangkok consumer more electricity than entire provinces in the North is just stunning hypocrisy.

Those balances will be redressed.. either safely and calmly in the ballot boxes, or more dangerously outside of them.

How about the budget gets divided based on tax income, sounds fair to me most of the tax is paid in BKK and most of the money is made in BKK seems fair that most of it is spend there then too.

Based on population, of course not based on where the tax income is derived. That is much fairer investing in a place that makes money vs giving money to a bottomless well.

Please quote your sources and some actual numbers.. 30% of the countries population, issan, receives just 6% of the expenditure.. Given consumption taxes make the largest single section of government revenue I would assume 30% of the countries population contribute more then 6% of the budget..

The statement that issan is asking for handouts is simply a crock.. Isaan is asking for a fairer rebalancing of the budgets.. And when Tacky did that, diverting just a few fractions of the government budget into infrastructure and investment in the poorest, the country boomed.. If you want to create a strong economy you create a strong middle class.. You do that by investing in the poor, and the whole country then benefits.

[Thaidream]

What is interesting is that as Thai's become more and more educated and interested in reform,and as different leaders emerge, Democracy Thai style will be successful. The problem is that the majority of former politicians have no real agenda, nor anything that resembles reform. They want the same old politics. While the Red shirts have an agenda, they also have no real leadership other than to criticize the other side. That leaves only the military as the arbiter of choice until a new generation of leaders comes into play. Of course, in the meantime it is a possibility that there will be a transition to a civilian appointed Prime Minister with a unity cabinet that will actually transition into elections. In the meantime, all we can hope is that the General can keep things together.

[Fat Haggis]

Please tell me about the Human Rights abuses under the current Junta, about the camps run by Military men, please tell me about the huge wealth of the current Police and Military when you are using the words corruption.

Please highlight where I've said Thaksin was better too.

You asked me if he's better or worse than the junta, no they are both the same, both power hungry who forgot their ways, and reasons for getting into the big chair.

I must have missed the part that Thaksin invented corruption in Thailand, it was there before him, it's there after him, he just simply took it to a higher level.

But he's not in charge now is he? Your beloved Junta has been running the show for 18 month now, has corruption ended? Of course not, it goes on daily, just because it's not in the news, doesn't mean it's eradicated, people only get to hear about the scales AFTER those involved get caught/found out.

What happened to these big lists of corrupt officials that went to the PM, it died a slow death and it was "trimmed down" because of the juntas curent agenda.

Please tell me about the Hughes increase in article 112 cases under this junta, most of which are politically motivated.

Please tell me about the murders of innocent people in the south by the Army, you are calling Thaksin a murderer, so would it be fair to call Prayuth the same? After all, many people were killed who were innocent under his command down there, and again recently when he was PM, fairs fair eh Ian?

Both Thaksin and Prayuth have taken the piss out of the very people they swore they were "doing it for" both deserve each other in the hall of shame for egomaniacs!!

[billd766]

As usual the question is about the 'North East'.

The North East of Thailand is so diverse in geography, political and economic situations, agricultural practices and so on, that people living here can't really answer this question. Full of Red shirts? That's Khon Kaen and Udon, hours and hours away from here. The economic situation of the average worker or farmer hasn't changed much here for years, rice subsidies had no affect whatever on most farmers here. If anything happens it will be manipulation by the usual suspects, politicians and rabble rousers.

It seems to be much the same over the other side of Thailand in Khampaeng Phet province. Politicians were only seen and heard from for a few weeks before an election after which the population was ignored.

The rural people have no faith in national politicians and not much faith in local politicians. Over the years they have learned that whichever political party is running the country they will be screwed in one way or another.

Sure, if somebody comes along with free money the people will take it but they are also taking election promises with shovels full of salt. Trust me I am your friendly politician, I am here to represent and work for you" doesn't get as much positive reaction any more.

[robblok]

The portrayal by a bangkok based media as the poor as scroungers radically undermines the facts..

In the 'good old days' that the military is trying to return us to.. The 80s and 90s.. The rural economy received 5 - 10% of the countries budget allocation..

In 2001 that had risen to 16%.. and now it is in the low to mid 20% range.. Bangkok has 16% of the Thai population and 70% of its tax revenue.. Isaan has 30% the countries population and gets 6% of its revenue !!! A bangkok Thai gets 100's of per cent more proportionally spent on them.. Bangkok gets 400% the education budget per child.. 16x the medical spending per person..

But as Thailand works mostly on consumption taxes even tho income tax payments from the poor is low they contribute too.. VAT makes 50% of the government revenue and the poor pay that dis-proportionally than the rich.

Yet the yellow media would have you believe its the poor wanting handouts.. How about reducing the bangkok budget to nearer equality to the rural budgets based on populations..

These numbers are no longer a secret to the poor.. They know they are being given the crumbs while being accused of asking for too much.. The insult that is being told to live a 'sufficiency economy' while single shopping malls in bangkok consumer more electricity than entire provinces in the North is just stunning hypocrisy.

Those balances will be redressed.. either safely and calmly in the ballot boxes, or more dangerously outside of them.

How about the budget gets divided based on tax income, sounds fair to me most of the tax is paid in BKK and most of the money is made in BKK seems fair that most of it is spend there then too.

Based on population, of course not based on where the tax income is derived. That is much fairer investing in a place that makes money vs giving money to a bottomless well.

Please quote your sources and some actual numbers.. 30% of the countries population, issan, receives just 6% of the expenditure.. Given consumption taxes make the largest single section of government revenue I would assume 30% of the countries population contribute more then 6% of the budget..

The statement that issan is asking for handouts is simply a crock.. Isaan is asking for a fairer rebalancing of the budgets.. And when Tacky did that, diverting just a few fractions of the government budget into infrastructure and investment in the poorest, the country boomed.. If you want to create a strong economy you create a strong middle class.. You do that by investing in the poor, and the whole country then benefits.

I am quite sure that the people in Isarn they don't pay much tax at all, in Bangkok with its malls (they do charge vat there) and all its supermarkets and so on they pay VAT Isarn with their mom and pop shops.. (no VAT). Also the big companies pay wages tax, the farmers no tax.

So you can ask for fair payment, so do I let the tax flow back where it is made. More road tax is collected in BKK only normal that money for road tax a lot more is spend in BKK. Your division does not take that into account. Just pure population nr's dont mean squat.

Sorry just don't see eye to eye here with you.

Investing in Isarn, sure if the investment is going to pay itself back partially. Not saying no investments, but make it wise investments not just handouts to farmers. Let them change in order to get money, its just a bottomless pit this way.

[NanLaew]

I would also ask that if there is 'rising anger' - is someone winding them up?

Of course there is, they're called " The Junta" !!

Please tell everyone what steps have been taken by the current bunch to bring about peace and reconciliation ?

Constant locking up of "attitude adjustment" for having opinions that differ from the big Pooh bear?

Paranoia and lack of self control are creeping into the way in which the current establishment are going these days, they can't stand criticism, and have thrown more teddies and spat more dummies out in the past 10 months than the previous year.

Can't stand the heat? You should have stayed out of someone else's kitchen General!!

And please tell me... what about Thaksin, the self-exiled human rights abuser, serial murderer and king of corruption? Is he better than the Junta? Or are they both as bad as each other? Or perhaps worse than the Junta?

Oh dear... almost got to 3 pages before someone mentions the 'T' word. It's an improvement though since it used to be mentioned within the first dozen posts or so.

Junta guys, keep up the good work in making (most of) us (almost) forget the (real) reason you (were asked to) take over.

[LivinLOS]

I agree partly, that he is a bit too fanatical, however making sure that the reds don't rise and start an other round of street protests combined with the killing they always seem to do is important too.

If the politicians would think of the country and give critique without rabble-rousing it would be ok. However given the past of the politicians its unlikely they would not do so.

I feel the current government should help the farmers that are hit by the drought, and punish those that still farm even when told not too. But its bad that the current government has not made any good plans / promises for support yet.

Yes red protests to have, you know, things like elections and the universal suffrage counted.. Thats not to be tolerated..

But yellow protests and political activities (see Suthep recently, anti USA protests recently, etc etc) which enable a minority group to repeatedly bring down the elected leaders because "we dont like Thaksin" is perfectly fine ??

Why is it red rabble thats the issue.. when they win elections.. when they are ultimately the will of the population.. and yet yellow groups, a group thats shown to be a minority view at every election for the last 15 years , 5 in a row.. can block airports, cancel elections, unseat premiers for issues like sacking a subordinate or hosting a cooking show, and deny the will of the majority over and over..

If theres one group that needs to learn that elections are contested on platforms of programs and appealing to the mass of the people (who are unsurprisingly, the poor) its the Yellow / Dem / Junta alliances.. One side is accused of trying to amend a constitution, the other shreds it.. One side is accused of trying to promote their own people, the other does exactly that totally as it wishes.. One side is accused of populist policies and harming the economy, the other side crashes the economy (8 - 12 billion usd lost in one years growth alone !!) and instigates the same soft loans and policies it criticized. Its a mind blowing level of denial and hypocrisy..

When you repress people and take away their right of self determination, leaving only the course of violent resistance available.. Why would you expect anything other than violent resistance to come from that ??? It will take time but the way this economy is tanking, and the constantly shifting election dates, means its years away at best, and probably neutered to be meaningless anyway.

[robblok]

I agree partly, that he is a bit too fanatical, however making sure that the reds don't rise and start an other round of street protests combined with the killing they always seem to do is important too.

If the politicians would think of the country and give critique without rabble-rousing it would be ok. However given the past of the politicians its unlikely they would not do so.

I feel the current government should help the farmers that are hit by the drought, and punish those that still farm even when told not too. But its bad that the current government has not made any good plans / promises for support yet.

Yes red protests to have, you know, things like elections and the universal suffrage counted.. Thats not to be tolerated..

But yellow protests and political activities (see Suthep recently, anti USA protests recently, etc etc) which enable a minority group to repeatedly bring down the elected leaders because "we dont like Thaksin" is perfectly fine ??

Why is it red rabble thats the issue.. when they win elections.. when they are ultimately the will of the population.. and yet yellow groups, a group thats shown to be a minority view at every election for the last 15 years , 5 in a row.. can block airports, cancel elections, unseat premiers for issues like sacking a subordinate or hosting a cooking show, and deny the will of the majority over and over..

If theres one group that needs to learn that elections are contested on platforms of programs and appealing to the mass of the people (who are unsurprisingly, the poor) its the Yellow / Dem / Junta alliances.. One side is accused of trying to amend a constitution, the other shreds it.. One side is accused of trying to promote their own people, the other does exactly that totally as it wishes.. One side is accused of populist policies and harming the economy, the other side crashes the economy (8 - 12 billion usd lost in one years growth alone !!) and instigates the same soft loans and policies it criticized. Its a mind blowing level of denial and hypocrisy..

When you repress people and take away their right of self determination, leaving only the course of violent resistance available.. Why would you expect anything other than violent resistance to come from that ??? It will take time but the way this economy is tanking, and the constantly shifting election dates, means its years away at best, and probably neutered to be meaningless anyway.

The crashing of the economy can be blamed to the world economy and the policies of YL (rice program helped in bringing the rice prices down). Not really fair to say the current government has anything to do with it. Same as the fact that the fishing and human right stuff has been ignored by the previous governments and now it bites this one. Nice of you to blame them, must be those red glasses you wear.

The reds are violent, that has been proven all the time, no problems with them if they were not. Can't compare the level of violence from them with the yellow group.

As for democracy, it was failing before and abused by Thaksin and his proxies now the yellows abuse it. If there was a real democracy id support it but there was not. Secret votes, bullying people who came out with figures the rice program, voting for others with others cards. A amnesty to help clear 24.000 corruption cases. Face it there was no democracy and there is none now.

Just different people in charge, i prefer this mob of crooks, at least they do something for the country, and no more violent protests.

[billd766]

As usual the question is about the 'North East'.

The North East of Thailand is so diverse in geography, political and economic situations, agricultural practices and so on, that people living here can't really answer this question. Full of Red shirts? That's Khon Kaen and Udon, hours and hours away from here. The economic situation of the average worker or farmer hasn't changed much here for years, rice subsidies had no affect whatever on most farmers here. If anything happens it will be manipulation by the usual suspects, politicians and rabble rousers.

at the end of the day does it really matter what colour shirts they wear?

The bottom line is the political sentiment in the north-east of Thailand is polar opposite to that in Bangkok because they have different interests and there is no way to avoid an inevitable election result as has been shown several times now?

I believe yes there will be problems as the rest of Thailand is treated differently to Bangkok. Where is the major developments for the north of the country? We only hear about progress for Bangkok region. Why aren't the government planning for jobs in the north. The list goes on while the poor still struggle to make ends meet.

But Issan is NOT all of Thailand, any more than Bangkok, southern, eastern, western or northern Thailand is. There are poor everywhere in Thailand NO government can fix everything for everybody. Instead of blaming this government (it is easy to do that), try asking why previous governments haven't invested more in the north east of Thailand. After all since 2001 the TRT/PPP/PTP governments were in power for at least 10 of those years, so what did they do when they had the power and the opportunity?

[DennisF]

The portrayal by a bangkok based media as the poor as scroungers radically undermines the facts..

In the 'good old days' that the military is trying to return us to.. The 80s and 90s.. The rural economy received 5 - 10% of the countries budget allocation..

In 2001 that had risen to 16%.. and now it is in the low to mid 20% range.. Bangkok has 16% of the Thai population and 70% of its tax revenue.. Isaan has 30% the countries population and gets 6% of its revenue !!! A bangkok Thai gets 100's of per cent more proportionally spent on them.. Bangkok gets 400% the education budget per child.. 16x the medical spending per person..

But as Thailand works mostly on consumption taxes even tho income tax payments from the poor is low they contribute too.. VAT makes 50% of the government revenue and the poor pay that dis-proportionally than the rich.

Yet the yellow media would have you believe its the poor wanting handouts.. How about reducing the bangkok budget to nearer equality to the rural budgets based on populations..

These numbers are no longer a secret to the poor.. They know they are being given the crumbs while being accused of asking for too much.. The insult that is being told to live a 'sufficiency economy' while single shopping malls in bangkok consumer more electricity than entire provinces in the North is just stunning hypocrisy.

Those balances will be redressed.. either safely and calmly in the ballot boxes, or more dangerously outside of them.

How about the budget gets divided based on tax income, sounds fair to me most of the tax is paid in BKK and most of the money is made in BKK seems fair that most of it is spend there then too.

Based on population, of course not based on where the tax income is derived. That is much fairer investing in a place that makes money vs giving money to a bottomless well.

Please quote your sources and some actual numbers.. 30% of the countries population, issan, receives just 6% of the expenditure.. Given consumption taxes make the largest single section of government revenue I would assume 30% of the countries population contribute more then 6% of the budget..

The statement that issan is asking for handouts is simply a crock.. Isaan is asking for a fairer rebalancing of the budgets.. And when Tacky did that, diverting just a few fractions of the government budget into infrastructure and investment in the poorest, the country boomed.. If you want to create a strong economy you create a strong middle class.. You do that by investing in the poor, and the whole country then benefits.

Can you please refrain from bringing basic common sense into the discussion?

It adds nothing to the argument and could even curtail it.

[Thaidream]

Let's be honest about all this- the reason Thaksin keeps coming up is the fact that he has tried to manipulate the elections and the governments to suit his own agenda. The last government tried to push through an amnesty bill- simply so he could return. He can return today if he wants to. Every Thai has the right of return. If he was interested in helping the country and he felt he was right, he would return to fight his case and conviction in the courts. Instead, he sits in luxury in another country and uses his wealth to continue his manipulation. When he was in power he used policies that were not sustainable in the long term to try and solidify his agenda. That agenda is greed and to solidify his Clan's power for their future- not the countries.

The other side is not without sin . The have not presented any programs or leadership that gets any buy in from the majority of people. They can't seem to find a leader that connects with all the people in every region. Part of this is that- during an election- messages cannot be brought to all sections of Thailand due to organised and often violent opposition funded from abroad by you know who.

What do you have left? The military . And they have the difficult task of sorting out this mess and trying to transition the country into one in which fair elections can be held. The General needs a chance to try and sort everything out and has not had enough time to do so. Even Western governments like the US and UK need time when they come to power to get their agenda passed. This normally takes years before any real change is noticed. Too many people in Thailand expect the General to do everything immediately If he used Section 44 for every decision, while quick, what would the outcry be then?

[ianf]

Let's be honest about all this- the reason Thaksin keeps coming up is the fact that he has tried to manipulate the elections and the governments to suit his own agenda. The last government tried to push through an amnesty bill- simply so he could return. He can return today if he wants to. Every Thai has the right of return. If he was interested in helping the country and he felt he was right, he would return to fight his case and conviction in the courts. Instead, he sits in luxury in another country and uses his wealth to continue his manipulation. When he was in power he used policies that were not sustainable in the long term to try and solidify his agenda. That agenda is greed and to solidify his Clan's power for their future- not the countries.

The other side is not without sin . The have not presented any programs or leadership that gets any buy in from the majority of people. They can't seem to find a leader that connects with all the people in every region. Part of this is that- during an election- messages cannot be brought to all sections of Thailand due to organised and often violent opposition funded from abroad by you know who.

What do you have left? The military . And they have the difficult task of sorting out this mess and trying to transition the country into one in which fair elections can be held. The General needs a chance to try and sort everything out and has not had enough time to do so. Even Western governments like the US and UK need time when they come to power to get their agenda passed. This normally takes years before any real change is noticed. Too many people in Thailand expect the General to do everything immediately If he used Section 44 for every decision, while quick, what would the outcry be then?

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

[elgordo38]

The resources and influence of the actual fomenters is rapidly drying up. A final, desperate attempt to screw everything up again is not impossible, but things are looking very good for the moment. Look to the new bank in Shanghai to offer support. Once the worm turns good things will happen fast.

Sounds like another fortune teller. Do you charge for your readings? Once the worm turns good things will happen fast?? What the H does that mean. Our dear general is going to spin a chrysalis and when he emerges he will fly off?

[LannaGuy]

I would also ask that if there is 'rising anger' - is someone winding them up?

Of course there is, they're called " The Junta" !!

Please tell everyone what steps have been taken by the current bunch to bring about peace and reconciliation ?

Constant locking up of "attitude adjustment" for having opinions that differ from the big Pooh bear?

Paranoia and lack of self control are creeping into the way in which the current establishment are going these days, they can't stand criticism, and have thrown more teddies and spat more dummies out in the past 10 months than the previous year.

Can't stand the heat? You should have stayed out of someone else's kitchen General!!

And please tell me... what about Thaksin, the self-exiled human rights abuser, serial murderer and king of corruption? Is he better than the Junta? Or are they both as bad as each other? Or perhaps worse than the Junta?

haha here they go again.... BORING... if you don't support the Junta you're a red and a Thaksin lover

[elgordo38]

I feel like the entire planet is edging closer to a series of revolutions. Just waiting to see which nation goes first.

ah a brother in charms a like minded thinker. I think some countries have already started they have just not reached the boiling point yet. As much as we progress tech wise in lifestyles we continue to regress back into our animal ancestry. Maybe in time we will all again become hunters and gatherers after we have soiled the bread basket we presently live in.

Edited October 5, 2015 by elgordo38

[phycokiller]

I dont think Thailands problem is about who runs the country, reds or yellows, the problem is that once they have power they are above the law and can be as corrupt as they want

[elgordo38]

With all the pressure imposed on rice farmers it wont take long before poverty turns to anger , This governments only concern is for its own longevity and believes people can survive on nothing , it wont bother the government as they still get paid .

This governments only concern is for its own longevity and believes people can survive on nothing , it wont bother the government as they still get paid .

You are talking about the shin governments, right?

Does the public trough recognize a difference as to who is feeding at any given time??

[elgordo38]

As usual the question is about the 'North East'.

The North East of Thailand is so diverse in geography, political and economic situations, agricultural practices and so on, that people living here can't really answer this question. Full of Red shirts? That's Khon Kaen and Udon, hours and hours away from here. The economic situation of the average worker or farmer hasn't changed much here for years, rice subsidies had no affect whatever on most farmers here. If anything happens it will be manipulation by the usual suspects, politicians and rabble rousers.

at the end of the day does it really matter what colour shirts they wear?

The bottom line is the political sentiment in the north-east of Thailand is polar opposite to that in Bangkok because they have different interests and there is no way to avoid an inevitable election result as has been shown several times now?

Polar opposite to that in Bangkok now I wonder why? hmm maybe most of the tax money is spent there to appease only 17% of the population. I can remember the last flood when all the 7/11s' in the north had empty shelves. The reason given was that their stock had to come from Bangkok and the roads in between were flooded. The shelves remained empty for weeks. I am sure someone here in the north would have been more than capable to slap sandwiches together and bake a loaf of bread. I can also refer to another incident here in Chiang Mai and I am sure you all know what I am talking about when a very important service here was told that no funding was forth coming from on high sorry Bangkok. Bangkok has only themselves to blame if there is trouble. People want an evenly distributed central government not a dynasty stuck in its biggest city. I guess that is why the capitol of Thailand has moved so many times in the past.

[peterb17]

If there's rising anger in the NE it will be in the NE of England where residents will be pretty peed off at the loss of 1,800 jobs, resulting from a Thai company's failed foray into steel..

Nothing to with Thailand- losses of £500 million- downturn in world steel demand. It's a business decision.

[bazza40]

If there's rising anger in the NE it will be in the NE of England where residents will be pretty peed off at the loss of 1,800 jobs, resulting from a Thai company's failed foray into steel..

Steel in the Western economies is pretty much a dead duck. Even the Japanese are hurting from cheap steel from China. Unless the West goes back to tariff barriers, the trend to plant closures will continue.

As a former employee in the steel industry in Australia, I would say this has been coming since as far back as 1982. With current environmental laws, the chances of a new coking coal plant or conventional blast furnace being built anywhere in the Western world are virtually zero.

I don't think the Thais can be blamed for the failure of a Teesside steel plant. At a rough guess, I'd say they bought an operation where the equipment was well and truly obsolete. Even an astute businessman like Mittal has fallen into the same trap.

[Fat Haggis]

Let's be honest about all this- the reason Thaksin keeps coming up is the fact that he has tried to manipulate the elections and the governments to suit his own agenda. The last government tried to push through an amnesty bill- simply so he could return. He can return today if he wants to. Every Thai has the right of return. If he was interested in helping the country and he felt he was right, he would return to fight his case and conviction in the courts. Instead, he sits in luxury in another country and uses his wealth to continue his manipulation. When he was in power he used policies that were not sustainable in the long term to try and solidify his agenda. That agenda is greed and to solidify his Clan's power for their future- not the countries.

The other side is not without sin . The have not presented any programs or leadership that gets any buy in from the majority of people. They can't seem to find a leader that connects with all the people in every region. Part of this is that- during an election- messages cannot be brought to all sections of Thailand due to organised and often violent opposition funded from abroad by you know who.

What do you have left? The military . And they have the difficult task of sorting out this mess and trying to transition the country into one in which fair elections can be held. The General needs a chance to try and sort everything out and has not had enough time to do so. Even Western governments like the US and UK need time when they come to power to get their agenda passed. This normally takes years before any real change is noticed. Too many people in Thailand expect the General to do everything immediately If he used Section 44 for every decision, while quick, what would the outcry be then?

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

At least you're admitting to having a prejudice, and to a degree Thai dream is spot on, right up to the part about the military, the military are at the centre of everything, staging coups is about the best thing their military does as they keep staging them.

The minute the Military begin to be held accountable for their actions and coups will be punished accordingly, then Thailand stands a chance of moving forwards. The military are at the centre of every domestic issue, and have been since the 1930's, they are the common denominator in all of Thailands power struggles, not Thaksin, and the sooner some folks here realise this the better.

The army only care about two things, protecting the monarchy, and I hope this isn't breaking the rules here by saying that, and the other one is themselves.

They don't care about the general population, they care about what happens to them next.

They are a very large part in Thailands internal problems.

[robblok]

Let's be honest about all this- the reason Thaksin keeps coming up is the fact that he has tried to manipulate the elections and the governments to suit his own agenda. The last government tried to push through an amnesty bill- simply so he could return. He can return today if he wants to. Every Thai has the right of return. If he was interested in helping the country and he felt he was right, he would return to fight his case and conviction in the courts. Instead, he sits in luxury in another country and uses his wealth to continue his manipulation. When he was in power he used policies that were not sustainable in the long term to try and solidify his agenda. That agenda is greed and to solidify his Clan's power for their future- not the countries.

The other side is not without sin . The have not presented any programs or leadership that gets any buy in from the majority of people. They can't seem to find a leader that connects with all the people in every region. Part of this is that- during an election- messages cannot be brought to all sections of Thailand due to organised and often violent opposition funded from abroad by you know who.

What do you have left? The military . And they have the difficult task of sorting out this mess and trying to transition the country into one in which fair elections can be held. The General needs a chance to try and sort everything out and has not had enough time to do so. Even Western governments like the US and UK need time when they come to power to get their agenda passed. This normally takes years before any real change is noticed. Too many people in Thailand expect the General to do everything immediately If he used Section 44 for every decision, while quick, what would the outcry be then?

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

At least you're admitting to having a prejudice, and to a degree Thai dream is spot on, right up to the part about the military, the military are at the centre of everything, staging coups is about the best thing their military does as they keep staging them.

The minute the Military begin to be held accountable for their actions and coups will be punished accordingly, then Thailand stands a chance of moving forwards. The military are at the centre of every domestic issue, and have been since the 1930's, they are the common denominator in all of Thailands power struggles, not Thaksin, and the sooner some folks here realise this the better.

The army only care about two things, protecting the monarchy, and I hope this isn't breaking the rules here by saying that, and the other one is themselves.

They don't care about the general population, they care about what happens to them next.

They are a very large part in Thailands internal problems.

No need for them if YL had not brought up the amnesty, that is what fired it all off. Without it there would not have been street protests and no reason for a coup. The army only stepped in when the previous government made such a mess that people rose up against it. Without the violence from the reds there would still be no excuse (but again the bombings and shootings gave the army the perfect excuse).

The army just took advantage of the situation that was created, I do wonder what they would have done if the PTP had not offered them this golden opportunity.

[Thaidream]

It's a question of which one is worse at the moment and there is really no choice. If Thaksin were in power- he would be doing what the Americans taught him- keep giving the people handouts to keep them happy and make them dependent on you. The sole reason is to keep he and his party in power. there is never any real plan to move the country forward or actually help the poor and disenfranchised on a long term basis. You can see this as evident in the prior government. The provision of a rice price above the World price in an attempt to corner the market was a disaster. This is how they operate except in this case when the bill came due they couldn't pay.

I am sure the military has its own skeletons but I do see this military as wanting to return to the barracks and go back to its normal role.It knows it is not suited for its current role, although listening to the General speak it is somewhat refreshing to hear him talk straight back to people telling them what he actually thinks instead of using a politicians script. Mot of the military governments in the past have a time frame in which they can operate before the public starts getting tired of waiting. Many of the missteps coming from staffers hearing that the General is interested in a certain position and then running off and trying to implement it without any of the groundwork being accomplished. The alcohol ban near schools was one of these. The government agrees in principle it is a good idea and then someone tries to actually do it without studying the idea and chaos ensues. A good idea in principle becomes a bad idea in execution.

The bottom line is that what we have in place now is what is going to decide how Thailand transitions into a fair election. I see the General trying to bring into the government some respected elder advisers who hopefully will assist in this difficult transition

Actually, much of the World is in turmoil. Look at the divisions in the United States which has disgusted the American electorate. Europe is in disarray with failing economies and a huge immigration problem. And there are more- mostly caused by elected politicians who care more about themselves than their country.They don't seem to realize the poor will inherit the Earth.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Thaidream

[wabothai]

Just compare the situation to a mosquito bugging the hell out of you.

[EnglishJohn]

Despite all the fevered rantings we read here, red-shirt leaders will will not order anything significant without the order (and more specifically funding) from abroad. Revolutions take place by people who are fighting for a cause, not just to reinstate corruption.

Bogeyman would like to disrupt the economy to put pressure on the Junta to hold elections before reform is complete and give the next bunch a fighting chance to get around them. People should know by now that any reforms which are not already law will be repeatedly delayed and never get passed.

But he also knows that Prayuth bites back if he does anything : his face is still smarting from having his police rank removed so publicly.

And of course that-which-cannot-be-discussed might happen soon leaving the possibility of a huge power vacuum which might be a golden opportunity not to be missed.

So everything depends on whether bogeyman thinks he can get away with it. I don't think he can and he will wait patiently until the election then start the next election-corruption-protests-coup cycle. He will need his paid thugs again at that time and doesn't want his loyal servants locked up in prison when the time comes.

Meanwhile the red-shirt supporters who still think he is going to make them rich any time soon have been sold down the river ...

[sgtsabai]

There is a low, quiet but very persistent rumbling amongst the people in Issan that are NOT red shirts. I don't know many red shirts, at least I don't think I do. The people in Issan, rightly or wrongly-I believe rightly, believe the "guvmint" doesn't like them. They are not all red shirts, by a long shot. In fact Udon is not all red shirt. On the other hand they aren't yellow shirts either. Much is whispered, and I hear from time to time the equivalent of "winter is coming". My wife's village, most definitely not red shirt had many if not most of it's leaders replaced by the junta's people and onerous requirements made so that it becomes almost impossible for locals to take even a local government job. Her's is not some grass hut poor village.

One of the reasons I said farangs need to have contingency plans is the dislike of the junta for farangs. In reply many say "yes but look at the money we spend supporting families in Issan". I say yes, every single satang I have goes into Issan and while I'm not rich, I have no problem what so ever with the monthly requirement for income. On the other hand, aside from the junta not liking us, he/it doesn't like Issan and could give give a damn less what happens to the families if we have to leave.