SURVEY: Is the rising anger in the NE likely to erupt into political violence?

[Melyn]

If anything (in any country) is going to push people over the edge it will be a lack of food and/or money.

Shutting down rice farming and telling the farmers to grow something else is an extremely poor agricultural policy. Even more so.when rubber is high.in supply and the bottom is falling out of sugar.

The junta could, over time, be hoist by its own petard

[Gandtee]

There are to many factors to give a definitive Yes or No answer but my gut feeling is that something will happen before the next, whenever that is, election.

The red shirts may not be seen....or heard from so much, but they are there in the shadows getting on with their scheming and plotting!

By scheming and plotting I take it you mean wanting equality? While I do not support some of their tactics I do understand where they are coming from. It's too easy to dismiss them as trouble makers who inconvenience the big city dwellers.I predicted thirty years ago that there would be an uprising in Thailand. It began a few years ago, then petered out. It's still smouldering I suspect.

[Fat Haggis]

Let's be honest about all this- the reason Thaksin keeps coming up is the fact that he has tried to manipulate the elections and the governments to suit his own agenda. The last government tried to push through an amnesty bill- simply so he could return. He can return today if he wants to. Every Thai has the right of return. If he was interested in helping the country and he felt he was right, he would return to fight his case and conviction in the courts. Instead, he sits in luxury in another country and uses his wealth to continue his manipulation. When he was in power he used policies that were not sustainable in the long term to try and solidify his agenda. That agenda is greed and to solidify his Clan's power for their future- not the countries.

The other side is not without sin . The have not presented any programs or leadership that gets any buy in from the majority of people. They can't seem to find a leader that connects with all the people in every region. Part of this is that- during an election- messages cannot be brought to all sections of Thailand due to organised and often violent opposition funded from abroad by you know who.

What do you have left? The military . And they have the difficult task of sorting out this mess and trying to transition the country into one in which fair elections can be held. The General needs a chance to try and sort everything out and has not had enough time to do so. Even Western governments like the US and UK need time when they come to power to get their agenda passed. This normally takes years before any real change is noticed. Too many people in Thailand expect the General to do everything immediately If he used Section 44 for every decision, while quick, what would the outcry be then?

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

At least you're admitting to having a prejudice, and to a degree Thai dream is spot on, right up to the part about the military, the military are at the centre of everything, staging coups is about the best thing their military does as they keep staging them.

The minute the Military begin to be held accountable for their actions and coups will be punished accordingly, then Thailand stands a chance of moving forwards. The military are at the centre of every domestic issue, and have been since the 1930's, they are the common denominator in all of Thailands power struggles, not Thaksin, and the sooner some folks here realise this the better.

The army only care about two things, protecting the monarchy, and I hope this isn't breaking the rules here by saying that, and the other one is themselves.

They don't care about the general population, they care about what happens to them next.

They are a very large part in Thailands internal problems.

No need for them if YL had not brought up the amnesty, that is what fired it all off. Without it there would not have been street protests and no reason for a coup. The army only stepped in when the previous government made such a mess that people rose up against it. Without the violence from the reds there would still be no excuse (but again the bombings and shootings gave the army the perfect excuse).

The army just took advantage of the situation that was created, I do wonder what they would have done if the PTP had not offered them this golden opportunity.

Really? And here's me thinking that the protests in 2014 were all about stopping corruption ? Also pretty sure that the amnesty bill was killed off at the end of 2103 due to the backlash that happened during the first round of protests around November/December. And after Yingluck dis loved Parliament according to the constitution, to call for a General Election.

All done with the Royal Decree, which kind of makes me wonder why Suthep and his goons were not charged with LM , well we all know why don't we

The Army deployed on the streets early on, with a mandate to protect the "people" but the people they didn't bother protecting were the people trying to cast votes.

You had a democrat leader who didn't turn up for the party as he knew they'd be squashed like bugs, so his bottle went. Enter the Generals pit bull Suthep, who is ON RECORD as stating that him and Prayuth had been conspiring since 2011 to over throw the Shins, soon after that Suthep "decided to become a monk!!"

He does his penance but now is getting restless as none of the reforms his good people , his chosen group , want before any election happens again, time is running out for the Junta, they have already broken their initial elections soon promise, Suthep and the mental monk are now getting more and more vocal, but oddly enough it's not seen as political, and the junta allows them to stir the shit.

Where is the reconciliation fitting into all of this? The only time this country will be united is why a sad and dark occasion happens, but it will be only grief that unites them, and afterwards, the real power struggle begins.

This whole divide goes way way way beyond any amnesty bill mate, and I do believe you're not naive enough to not know this.

Have you never wondered what would have happened if the Army had protected the polling stations like they should have done, or had the spineless abhisit had actually believed that the PTP were done.

The polls and the kool aid drinkers keep churning out stats to make it sound like Prayuth is a Demi God and saviour of the country, but he and the likes of Surhep will keep putting off elections indefinitely. Well till after th dust has settled and the spoils have been divided ...why do you think that is?

Perhaps, just perhaps the good General and all his cronies really aren't as popular as they believe they are, as they keep changing the goalposts, doesn't sound like the actions of a confident man to me, sounds more like the actions of a desperate man, leading desperate people,who will hold on to the bitter end, just like Yingluck tried to do.

Personally I can't wait to see the courts treat and handle Prayuth and his cronies the same way they've treated the shins, over their abusers of power, article 44 being the ultimate abuse.

Somehow there's more chances of THAI airways A380's being flown by pigs than expecting Prayuth to keep to his word, and step down after elections, you might believe in him Rob, I don't, he's not fit to run a country, you don't get the support of the country by introducing bone ideas, like the single gateway, banning alcohol within 300M of schools without first having done feasibility studies. He's doing nothing to get the country to endear to him, when he locks people up for having "negative thoughts about him and his government" that sir is not how a great leader treats his people, that's what people who are certain word we're not allowed to use are

[LivinLOS]

The crashing of the economy can be blamed to the world economy and the policies of YL (rice program helped in bringing the rice prices down). Not really fair to say the current government has anything to do with it. Same as the fact that the fishing and human right stuff has been ignored by the previous governments and now it bites this one. Nice of you to blame them, must be those red glasses you wear.

The Junta stole power.. In doing so they rode over the will of the people, in who the people decided would be the best leaders... And said they know best.. Now its not going well, the responsibility for the problems lie entirely on thier shoulder, after all, if they didnt want the task, they should have left well alone..

As for blaming Yingluck.. Explain how theres a 38% drop in foriegn direct investment, since the Juntas in charge ?? Thats still 'Thaksins fault' is it ??

The reds are violent, that has been proven all the time, no problems with them if they were not. Can't compare the level of violence from them with the yellow group.

Funny how the side without an army, without tanks, without article 44 and without the tools of repression.. They are the violent ones ?!?!

As for democracy, it was failing before and abused by Thaksin and his proxies now the yellows abuse it. If there was a real democracy id support it but there was not. Secret votes, bullying people who came out with figures the rice program, voting for others with others cards. A amnesty to help clear 24.000 corruption cases. Face it there was no democracy and there is none now.

Yes democracy is messy, yes democracy is imperfect.. But you dont improve it by destroying it.. You dont call yourself a democrat, and they boycott elections your scared you wont win.

Thailand was improving radically at the start of the millennium, in almost all social measures.. And its been backsliding in almost all those same measures thanks to the actions of the military and Junta.

[LivinLOS]

I believe yes there will be problems as the rest of Thailand is treated differently to Bangkok. Where is the major developments for the north of the country? We only hear about progress for Bangkok region. Why aren't the government planning for jobs in the north. The list goes on while the poor still struggle to make ends meet.

But Issan is NOT all of Thailand, any more than Bangkok, southern, eastern, western or northern Thailand is. There are poor everywhere in Thailand NO government can fix everything for everybody. Instead of blaming this government (it is easy to do that), try asking why previous governments haven't invested more in the north east of Thailand. After all since 2001 the TRT/PPP/PTP governments were in power for at least 10 of those years, so what did they do when they had the power and the opportunity?

Its not just the NE.. Its the entire non urban economy and outside the small areas the establishment want to keep it to.. They need to stop pandering to bangkok alone and start investing in the poorest regions, bringing them up gives a far far greater bang for investment buck made..

As for why didnt the PT do it ?? They did.. universal healthcare, a huge boom in the provinces, massive infrastructure investment leading to big economic gains.. The biggest economic boom in modern Thai history.. Strong growth rates for the period.. Rising average wealth... And they did this while being fought tooth and nail by the same powers who have stolen control repeatedly..

The very fact Tacky was doing so much investment, which normally is done in handouts from a certain institution, was seen as undermining said institution.. Is one of the unspoken but known reasons why the generals felt they should jump on it in 06.. You say why didnt he ?? He was fought against when he did and ultimately unseated because of doing so..

[Eric Loh]

If ever the situation turns chaotic, it will not be the NE farmers but spark either by the students activists or within the military. The students will grow bolder and the junta is caught in a catch 22 situation. Tough action will result in a middle class uprising and soft action will embolden the students. Within the military, there are much discontent especially the senior officers that will pass over in promotion in favour of a certain faction. I think it is boiling for a long time and a certain officer death may be targeted for this reason in 2010.

[Prbkk]

Despite all the fevered rantings we read here, red-shirt leaders will will not order anything significant without the order (and more specifically funding) from abroad. Revolutions take place by people who are fighting for a cause, not just to reinstate corruption.

Bogeyman would like to disrupt the economy to put pressure on the Junta to hold elections before reform is complete and give the next bunch a fighting chance to get around them. People should know by now that any reforms which are not already law will be repeatedly delayed and never get passed.

But he also knows that Prayuth bites back if he does anything : his face is still smarting from having his police rank removed so publicly.

And of course that-which-cannot-be-discussed might happen soon leaving the possibility of a huge power vacuum which might be a golden opportunity not to be missed.

So everything depends on whether bogeyman thinks he can get away with it. I don't think he can and he will wait patiently until the election then start the next election-corruption-protests-coup cycle. He will need his paid thugs again at that time and doesn't want his loyal servants locked up in prison when the time comes.

Meanwhile the red-shirt supporters who still think he is going to make them rich any time soon have been sold down the river ...

You persist with the myth that all is determined by Thaksin. The ill feeling in some quarters of Thai society has nothing to do with him, is not influenced or shaped by him. He is just a convenient bogey-man for those who seek to underestimate , for whatever motive, the level of anger and frustration of those who are dis-enfranchised by the Bangkok 'elite'.

You are either in denial or you completely misread the current relevance of Thaksin to Thai politics.

[LivinLOS]

Let's be honest about all this- the reason Thaksin keeps coming up is the fact that he has tried to manipulate the elections and the governments to suit his own agenda. The last government tried to push through an amnesty bill- simply so he could return. He can return today if he wants to. Every Thai has the right of return. If he was interested in helping the country and he felt he was right, he would return to fight his case and conviction in the courts. Instead, he sits in luxury in another country and uses his wealth to continue his manipulation. When he was in power he used policies that were not sustainable in the long term to try and solidify his agenda. That agenda is greed and to solidify his Clan's power for their future- not the countries.

The other side is not without sin . The have not presented any programs or leadership that gets any buy in from the majority of people. They can't seem to find a leader that connects with all the people in every region. Part of this is that- during an election- messages cannot be brought to all sections of Thailand due to organised and often violent opposition funded from abroad by you know who.

What do you have left? The military . And they have the difficult task of sorting out this mess and trying to transition the country into one in which fair elections can be held. The General needs a chance to try and sort everything out and has not had enough time to do so. Even Western governments like the US and UK need time when they come to power to get their agenda passed. This normally takes years before any real change is noticed. Too many people in Thailand expect the General to do everything immediately If he used Section 44 for every decision, while quick, what would the outcry be then?

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

At least you're admitting to having a prejudice, and to a degree Thai dream is spot on, right up to the part about the military, the military are at the centre of everything, staging coups is about the best thing their military does as they keep staging them.

The minute the Military begin to be held accountable for their actions and coups will be punished accordingly, then Thailand stands a chance of moving forwards. The military are at the centre of every domestic issue, and have been since the 1930's, they are the common denominator in all of Thailands power struggles, not Thaksin, and the sooner some folks here realise this the better.

The army only care about two things, protecting the monarchy, and I hope this isn't breaking the rules here by saying that, and the other one is themselves.

They don't care about the general population, they care about what happens to them next.

They are a very large part in Thailands internal problems.

No need for them if YL had not brought up the amnesty, that is what fired it all off. Without it there would not have been street protests and no reason for a coup. The army only stepped in when the previous government made such a mess that people rose up against it. Without the violence from the reds there would still be no excuse (but again the bombings and shootings gave the army the perfect excuse).

The army just took advantage of the situation that was created, I do wonder what they would have done if the PTP had not offered them this golden opportunity.

Erm.. When they had the coup..

The amnesty bill was long dead..

There was no violence from the reds..

Sutheps constant bringing bangkok to a standstill had run down to a few 100 grannies and happy clappers.. There was nothing to the yellow support left.. They had retreated back to the AC of thier condos and malls..

But as Suthep had run out of 'final pushes' they had to do something.. Firing an unwilling subordinate working against you.. better have a coup then.,

[eldragon]

I feel like the entire planet is edging closer to a series of revolutions. Just waiting to see which nation goes first.

ah a brother in charms a like minded thinker. I think some countries have already started they have just not reached the boiling point yet. As much as we progress tech wise in lifestyles we continue to regress back into our animal ancestry. Maybe in time we will all again become hunters and gatherers after we have soiled the bread basket we presently live in.

Decent chance of that, mate. It's interesting how we like to assume intelligence and progress are somehow inherited. But the potential to devolve is there. A couple cataclysmic events and a generation later we'll be right back to living in caves.

[jesimps]

Nothing will happen as long as the army keeps checks on the red rabble rouses. Without payment and organisation the farmers won't do a thing, so making sure the rabble rouses get punished and don't get a chance to start trouble will make sure the farmers behave.

That is why they are so tough with the reds, because if they get a chance they will start trouble and then we have fighting and deaths again. If they want to protest let them go to Chang Mai and bother their own.

I might not support the junta 100% but i support them 100% in making sure that we don't get the same street protests as before.

Àre you too dense to realise that the reason there are Redshirts is because there are so many military coups. Let democracy progress and the Redshirts will vanish. You don't see them active when a democratically elected govt is allowed to govern do you?

[Thai at Heart]

Nothing will happen as long as the army keeps checks on the red rabble rouses. Without payment and organisation the farmers won't do a thing, so making sure the rabble rouses get punished and don't get a chance to start trouble will make sure the farmers behave.

That is why they are so tough with the reds, because if they get a chance they will start trouble and then we have fighting and deaths again. If they want to protest let them go to Chang Mai and bother their own.

I might not support the junta 100% but i support them 100% in making sure that we don't get the same street protests as before.

Àre you too dense to realise that the reason there are Redshirts is because there are so many military coups. Let democracy progress and the Redshirts will vanish. You don't see them active when a democratically elected govt is allowed to govern do you?

Until they get a truly independent judiciary nothing will change. Nothing.

[robblok]

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

At least you're admitting to having a prejudice, and to a degree Thai dream is spot on, right up to the part about the military, the military are at the centre of everything, staging coups is about the best thing their military does as they keep staging them.

The minute the Military begin to be held accountable for their actions and coups will be punished accordingly, then Thailand stands a chance of moving forwards. The military are at the centre of every domestic issue, and have been since the 1930's, they are the common denominator in all of Thailands power struggles, not Thaksin, and the sooner some folks here realise this the better.

The army only care about two things, protecting the monarchy, and I hope this isn't breaking the rules here by saying that, and the other one is themselves.

They don't care about the general population, they care about what happens to them next.

They are a very large part in Thailands internal problems.

No need for them if YL had not brought up the amnesty, that is what fired it all off. Without it there would not have been street protests and no reason for a coup. The army only stepped in when the previous government made such a mess that people rose up against it. Without the violence from the reds there would still be no excuse (but again the bombings and shootings gave the army the perfect excuse).

The army just took advantage of the situation that was created, I do wonder what they would have done if the PTP had not offered them this golden opportunity.

Really? And here's me thinking that the protests in 2014 were all about stopping corruption ? Also pretty sure that the amnesty bill was killed off at the end of 2103 due to the backlash that happened during the first round of protests around November/December. And after Yingluck dis loved Parliament according to the constitution, to call for a General Election.

All done with the Royal Decree, which kind of makes me wonder why Suthep and his goons were not charged with LM , well we all know why don't we

The Army deployed on the streets early on, with a mandate to protect the "people" but the people they didn't bother protecting were the people trying to cast votes.

You had a democrat leader who didn't turn up for the party as he knew they'd be squashed like bugs, so his bottle went. Enter the Generals pit bull Suthep, who is ON RECORD as stating that him and Prayuth had been conspiring since 2011 to over throw the Shins, soon after that Suthep "decided to become a monk!!"

He does his penance but now is getting restless as none of the reforms his good people , his chosen group , want before any election happens again, time is running out for the Junta, they have already broken their initial elections soon promise, Suthep and the mental monk are now getting more and more vocal, but oddly enough it's not seen as political, and the junta allows them to stir the shit.

Where is the reconciliation fitting into all of this? The only time this country will be united is why a sad and dark occasion happens, but it will be only grief that unites them, and afterwards, the real power struggle begins.

This whole divide goes way way way beyond any amnesty bill mate, and I do believe you're not naive enough to not know this.

Have you never wondered what would have happened if the Army had protected the polling stations like they should have done, or had the spineless abhisit had actually believed that the PTP were done.

The polls and the kool aid drinkers keep churning out stats to make it sound like Prayuth is a Demi God and saviour of the country, but he and the likes of Surhep will keep putting off elections indefinitely. Well till after th dust has settled and the spoils have been divided ...why do you think that is?

Perhaps, just perhaps the good General and all his cronies really aren't as popular as they believe they are, as they keep changing the goalposts, doesn't sound like the actions of a confident man to me, sounds more like the actions of a desperate man, leading desperate people,who will hold on to the bitter end, just like Yingluck tried to do.

Personally I can't wait to see the courts treat and handle Prayuth and his cronies the same way they've treated the shins, over their abusers of power, article 44 being the ultimate abuse.

Somehow there's more chances of THAI airways A380's being flown by pigs than expecting Prayuth to keep to his word, and step down after elections, you might believe in him Rob, I don't, he's not fit to run a country, you don't get the support of the country by introducing bone ideas, like the single gateway, banning alcohol within 300M of schools without first having done feasibility studies. He's doing nothing to get the country to endear to him, when he locks people up for having "negative thoughts about him and his government" that sir is not how a great leader treats his people, that's what people who are certain word we're not allowed to use are

Your right he is not fit to run the country.. just more fit as YL.It was all about the amnesty-bill cant believe you forgot it already. It was not really killed it was put to sleep and could have been revived after a certain period and brought back without a vote. That is why they wanted her to step down. Can't believe you slept through that one it was all over the news.

This divide goes beyond the amnesty bill but people rallied because of it, a fatal mistake made by your darling and without it she would still be in power. You cant blame the army, blame the one who is really responsible who wanted the amnesty.

His single gateway and other ideas are idiotic and I oppose them but he is better as the PTP thugs, have you seen any corruption cases being tried or land encroachment during YL .. no.. same as me. But during this government i see them and some is better as none.

I rather have Prayut step down as he is really a PR disaster, but I rather see him as YL and her goons. So actually I am not happy with either but I just choose the least bad.

[Fat Haggis]

I have often wondered what the Army actually get out of becoming the ruling body, when it was quite obvious that they control EVERYTHING that goes on, from the National budget, all the way down to controlling the flow and passage of information.

They are the ultimate fat kid let loose in a cake shop, and not a single check or balance in place to oversee them.

It's no wonder that relinquishing such control is hard to do when you're the only one who can put your hands into the cookie jar

[ginjag]

Nothing will happen as long as the army keeps checks on the red rabble rouses. Without payment and organisation the farmers won't do a thing, so making sure the rabble rouses get punished and don't get a chance to start trouble will make sure the farmers behave.

That is why they are so tough with the reds, because if they get a chance they will start trouble and then we have fighting and deaths again. If they want to protest let them go to Chang Mai and bother their own.

I might not support the junta 100% but i support them 100% in making sure that we don't get the same street protests as before.

Àre you too dense to realise that the reason there are Redshirts is because there are so many military coups. Let democracy progress and the Redshirts will vanish. You don't see them active when a democratically elected govt is allowed to govern do you?

Defender of the red shirt thugs---amazing-------and you calling a decent TVF member dense ???? your a joke---look in depth at what you posted------

[ginjag]

I have often wondered what the Army actually get out of becoming the ruling body, when it was quite obvious that they control EVERYTHING that goes on, from the National budget, all the way down to controlling the flow and passage of information.

They are the ultimate fat kid let loose in a cake shop, and not a single check or balance in place to oversee them.

It's no wonder that relinquishing such control is hard to do when you're the only one who can put your hands into the cookie jar

Your correct quote " HANDS ON IT " not IN IT like the last lot--------you amaze me.

[mikemac]

If there's rising anger in the NE it will be in the NE of England where residents will be pretty peed off at the loss of 1,800 jobs, resulting from a Thai company's failed foray into steel..

Steel in the Western economies is pretty much a dead duck. Even the Japanese are hurting from cheap steel from China. Unless the West goes back to tariff barriers, the trend to plant closures will continue.

As a former employee in the steel industry in Australia, I would say this has been coming since as far back as 1982. With current environmental laws, the chances of a new coking coal plant or conventional blast furnace being built anywhere in the Western world are virtually zero.

I don't think the Thais can be blamed for the failure of a Teesside steel plant. At a rough guess, I'd say they bought an operation where the equipment was well and truly obsolete. Even an astute businessman like Mittal has fallen into the same trap.

Good post bazza.

I used to be involved in the steel industry as well, installing rolling mills and performing maintenance on them.

The last mill we installed was for Welded Tube Mills in Brisbane, back in the late nineties. It was an Otto mill, rolling RHS up to 150mm round with 8mm wall thickness.

Since then the industry has declined, lots of companies like the one I worked for have folded. The tube mills are now importing cheap Chinese tube and reselling it.

That mill closing in the UK is one of many worldwide. Nothing to do with the fact a Thai company was involved.

[ginjag]

TOPIC Rising anger in the North East ??? I am smothering the area UDON and honestly ---I mean honestly without a word of a lie-----what rising anger ????????? city and locals are not even mentioning any thing. Not angry mood, this topic is provided to let us all see who are the agenda people on TVF. and it shows, rallying to the reds----Ha ha ha.

[Fat Haggis]

No, my quote is HANDS IN IT , do not attempt to change my quote, it's against the forum rules.

I know exactly what I meant.!!!

I'm not here to amaze you, what amazes me are you sycophants who still don't post how horrendous your lives were under the Shins, as my couple of years under Yingluck were not any different than they are now.

Well apart from reading more sycophantic bullshit here, other than that, no change, still have to comply with the laws of the land, still can't own a home still can't work without a permit.

[Fat Haggis]

TOPIC Rising anger in the North East ??? I am smothering the area UDON and honestly ---I mean honestly without a word of a lie-----what rising anger ????????? city and locals are not even mentioning any thing. Not angry mood, this topic is provided to let us all see who are the agenda people on TVF. and it shows, rallying to the reds----Ha ha ha.

Yes because they're all going to tell you, a complete stranger and a farang at they that they're pissed off with the junta... Dream on, maybe you missed the post by others who live in the North East, and I can also tell you that people are not happy in and around parts of Korat that I go to, and that's coming from family members, especially the ones who grow rice!!!

Your post smacks of ignorance and reeks of " I know it all" and that your some sort of expert, reality check is that like most farangs here, Thai people tell you what you want to hear, and I don't believe for one minute Thais you don't know openly discuss politics with you. Especially one who has an agenda!!

[Fat Haggis]

Thaidream is one of the few posters on Thai Visa who posts with intelligence and not prejudice. You are 100% right and you have expressed what is undoubtedly the case. Well done.

At least you're admitting to having a prejudice, and to a degree Thai dream is spot on, right up to the part about the military, the military are at the centre of everything, staging coups is about the best thing their military does as they keep staging them.

The minute the Military begin to be held accountable for their actions and coups will be punished accordingly, then Thailand stands a chance of moving forwards. The military are at the centre of every domestic issue, and have been since the 1930's, they are the common denominator in all of Thailands power struggles, not Thaksin, and the sooner some folks here realise this the better.

The army only care about two things, protecting the monarchy, and I hope this isn't breaking the rules here by saying that, and the other one is themselves.

They don't care about the general population, they care about what happens to them next.

They are a very large part in Thailands internal problems.

No need for them if YL had not brought up the amnesty, that is what fired it all off. Without it there would not have been street protests and no reason for a coup. The army only stepped in when the previous government made such a mess that people rose up against it. Without the violence from the reds there would still be no excuse (but again the bombings and shootings gave the army the perfect excuse).

The army just took advantage of the situation that was created, I do wonder what they would have done if the PTP had not offered them this golden opportunity.

Really? And here's me thinking that the protests in 2014 were all about stopping corruption ? Also pretty sure that the amnesty bill was killed off at the end of 2103 due to the backlash that happened during the first round of protests around November/December. And after Yingluck dis loved Parliament according to the constitution, to call for a General Election.

All done with the Royal Decree, which kind of makes me wonder why Suthep and his goons were not charged with LM , well we all know why don't we

The Army deployed on the streets early on, with a mandate to protect the "people" but the people they didn't bother protecting were the people trying to cast votes.

You had a democrat leader who didn't turn up for the party as he knew they'd be squashed like bugs, so his bottle went. Enter the Generals pit bull Suthep, who is ON RECORD as stating that him and Prayuth had been conspiring since 2011 to over throw the Shins, soon after that Suthep "decided to become a monk!!"

He does his penance but now is getting restless as none of the reforms his good people , his chosen group , want before any election happens again, time is running out for the Junta, they have already broken their initial elections soon promise, Suthep and the mental monk are now getting more and more vocal, but oddly enough it's not seen as political, and the junta allows them to stir the shit.

Where is the reconciliation fitting into all of this? The only time this country will be united is why a sad and dark occasion happens, but it will be only grief that unites them, and afterwards, the real power struggle begins.

This whole divide goes way way way beyond any amnesty bill mate, and I do believe you're not naive enough to not know this.

Have you never wondered what would have happened if the Army had protected the polling stations like they should have done, or had the spineless abhisit had actually believed that the PTP were done.

The polls and the kool aid drinkers keep churning out stats to make it sound like Prayuth is a Demi God and saviour of the country, but he and the likes of Surhep will keep putting off elections indefinitely. Well till after th dust has settled and the spoils have been divided ...why do you think that is?

Perhaps, just perhaps the good General and all his cronies really aren't as popular as they believe they are, as they keep changing the goalposts, doesn't sound like the actions of a confident man to me, sounds more like the actions of a desperate man, leading desperate people,who will hold on to the bitter end, just like Yingluck tried to do.

Personally I can't wait to see the courts treat and handle Prayuth and his cronies the same way they've treated the shins, over their abusers of power, article 44 being the ultimate abuse.

Somehow there's more chances of THAI airways A380's being flown by pigs than expecting Prayuth to keep to his word, and step down after elections, you might believe in him Rob, I don't, he's not fit to run a country, you don't get the support of the country by introducing bone ideas, like the single gateway, banning alcohol within 300M of schools without first having done feasibility studies. He's doing nothing to get the country to endear to him, when he locks people up for having "negative thoughts about him and his government" that sir is not how a great leader treats his people, that's what people who are certain word we're not allowed to use are

Your right he is not fit to run the country.. just more fit as YL.It was all about the amnesty-bill cant believe you forgot it already. It was not really killed it was put to sleep and could have been revived after a certain period and brought back without a vote. That is why they wanted her to step down. Can't believe you slept through that one it was all over the news.

This divide goes beyond the amnesty bill but people rallied because of it, a fatal mistake made by your darling and without it she would still be in power. You cant blame the army, blame the one who is really responsible who wanted the amnesty.

His single gateway and other ideas are idiotic and I oppose them but he is better as the PTP thugs, have you seen any corruption cases being tried or land encroachment during YL .. no.. same as me. But during this government i see them and some is better as none.

I rather have Prayut step down as he is really a PR disaster, but I rather see him as YL and her goons. So actually I am not happy with either but I just choose the least bad.

Yingluck was nothing by eye candy, a distraction to what was going on, she's not my darling, none of the shins would have got my vote if I had one, she is attractive to a degree, but then again so are hundreds of ladyboys, she was aesthetically more pleasant on the eye to the outside world than Thaksin, but about as efficient and effective as a tits on a fish.

I don't get too animated about these amnesties Rob, because you just never know what the next "leader" will grant, it's just an excuse. Do you think that the amnesty bill was any different than the junta giving themselves amnesties for this current coup, and any subsequent ones?

It's called stacking the decks in your favour, NOBODY should be above the law, but every man and his dog knows that this is where Thailand is indeed different, in the fact the rich and powerful are well above the law, and the current junta have done NOTHING to change that, granting themselves amnesties for past,present and future coups hardly sets an example, and it makes them no better than the ones the amnesty bill was trying to absolve.

The amnesty bill is just a red herring, smoke and mirrors as to the real reasons why the big green need to be the de facto ruling body.

Don't keep making the same mistake Rob, in thinking that anti junta posters like myself see the red shirts as the answer, I have said from day one, I supported the protests, which isn't something a "rabid red" would do, right up to the point where they stopped the people voting.

At that point the protests were getting more radical, and aggressive, and it just paved the way for the red lunatics to start their own violent attacks on them.

The country had two chances to vote the Shins out last year, in February, and again the following July, on both occasions that opportunity was denied to the country, by one way or another. It's being denied now, citing unrest, and now we have the bold Ginjag staring he "smothers" UD and that there's no rest at all, and that its all bullshit.

That bullshit is coming from the Junta, they're the ones who keep making references to "national security"
And "unrest" in this particular region. And that's why elections cannot be held, so I must commend Ginjag really for actually proving the point that the Junta are indeed lying and spreading false information because according to him it's all lies about the unrest!!

Of course it is, the majority of posters also know it is, try telling the junta that, as they're the ones who keep referring to the unrest there, they are the ones spreading false propaganda !!!!

[robblok]

@haggis

Do your research its reuters and Thaivisa who are spreading false propaganda not the government they are the source of this article. No idea how you link it to the government. Newspapers have to be sold just put some juicy content in.

As for the generals giving themselves amnesty for a coup, that is normal here and totally different from what YL was trying to do. This coup would not have happened without the amnesty that got the protests.

You can say that the army had to step in because of the oncoming event, maybe yes maybe no but we will never know because YL put the door wide open because she thought her brother was more important as stability in Thailand.

I think the army would have a lot more problems staging a coup without any unrest and without the amnesty bill people would not have gone out.

[Thaidream]

You are absolutely correct- Thais will tell you what they think you want to hear and will not be open to an outsider especially if you have not lived in the village a long time. Not everything is Thaksin's fault per se but his influence and meddling still overshadow the land. The government is not reaching into every village to remove prior officials. One of my relatives is a Red Shirt supporter and still has his job. The debate has gone beyond Red Shirts vs Other Shirts. It centers on how to reconcile a fractured society. The haves do not want to part with any of their privilege and the wants must have more support to survive.

The General well knows the government is on borrowed time and he is attempting to get the committee together to get the organic laws written so an election can take place. It takes time. The worst thing that could happen now is demonstrations or a counter coup which will set everything back and cause a real backlash destroying what business there is and ruining the Tourist industry. .

In addition, I see no resentment at all to foreigners in Thailand by either the average person or the Government. The Visa mess right now is the over reaction due to the bombing. Remember in America, after 9/1, the United States borders were sealed. Governments react to provocation. The watchword now is patience.

[mojorison]

Thailand is fractured. The fractures are evident in BKK also. The RTP, BMA and everyone else of note are completely at odds with each other... all are motivated by greed. Ultimately the status quo will swing in the peoples favor. There is nothing surer. At the moment the "powers that be" are clinging on for the last lick of the ice-cream. How long you ask?... me don't know.

[Fat Haggis]

No Rob, why was Martial Law maintained and replaced with article 44?

One of the main reasons was that there was still "unrest" coming from a certain Region.

There's enough articles published by Thai Visa from the Nation about the juntas claims of unrest in the North East.

Wasn't there a promise to hold elections sooner, rather than later, but this was canned with " still concerns about national security"

Bloody right there's concerns, it was the same concerns that dismissed the Erawan bombing as a "grudge" but the fact it was carried out by foreigners is a national security concern.

Just who was it here in this very forum, that was linking this bombing to the red shirts right from the get go.

Who in Govenment stated pretty much within days that this was an internal political issue?

Which former Police chief has stated that there's links to the red shirts in their perfectly concluded case?

These are not coming from Reuters or Thai Visa, they are coming from Govenment officials Rob, the press are then reporting what is being fed to them.

It's simple, if Ginjag is correct, and that its a load of crap and that the North East is as calm as a pond, lift article 44, lift martial law country wide, and return everything as it was prior to the coup.

I will bet you that's never going to happen anytime soon.

[englishoak]

If there's rising anger in the NE it will be in the NE of England where residents will be pretty peed off at the loss of 1,800 jobs, resulting from a Thai company's failed foray into steel..

Steel in the Western economies is pretty much a dead duck. Even the Japanese are hurting from cheap steel from China. Unless the West goes back to tariff barriers, the trend to plant closures will continue.

As a former employee in the steel industry in Australia, I would say this has been coming since as far back as 1982. With current environmental laws, the chances of a new coking coal plant or conventional blast furnace being built anywhere in the Western world are virtually zero.

I don't think the Thais can be blamed for the failure of a Teesside steel plant. At a rough guess, I'd say they bought an operation where the equipment was well and truly obsolete. Even an astute businessman like Mittal has fallen into the same trap.

Good post bazza.

I used to be involved in the steel industry as well, installing rolling mills and performing maintenance on them.

The last mill we installed was for Welded Tube Mills in Brisbane, back in the late nineties. It was an Otto mill, rolling RHS up to 150mm round with 8mm wall thickness.

Since then the industry has declined, lots of companies like the one I worked for have folded. The tube mills are now importing cheap Chinese tube and reselling it.

That mill closing in the UK is one of many worldwide. Nothing to do with the fact a Thai company was involved.

So you dont think a totally inslovent Thai business purchasing an added asset they couldnt fund or pay for other than with more massive loans had nothing to do with it ?

Utter rubbish, Tata sold it have they collapsed ? yes the steel industry is declining and closing up is one thing but thats not what happened here is it ? this is about a totally bankrupt ( and probably corrupt to get such loans ) business buying others in the first place when insolvent and should have never been allowed to... as much as the industry is in decline this happens to be Thai company and its obvious mismanagement, or are you referring to thainess and the standard refusal to accept responsibility here ?

Edited October 5, 2015 by englishoak

[pmugghc]

I have often wondered what the Army actually get out of becoming the ruling body, when it was quite obvious that they control EVERYTHING that goes on, from the National budget, all the way down to controlling the flow and passage of information.

They are the ultimate fat kid let loose in a cake shop, and not a single check or balance in place to oversee them.

It's no wonder that relinquishing such control is hard to do when you're the only one who can put your hands into the cookie jar

Was it any different when the PTP was in power? I think not!

I agree that strong checks & balances plus separation of powers are fundamental to a true democracy.

We're lacking it now. We lacked in when Thaksin was in charge, he actually did his best to clip the wings of the auditor general and the free press among other actions. It's lacking and has always been lacking in Thailand.

Edited October 5, 2015 by pmugghc

[Fat Haggis]

Totally agree but people here can't let the past go, they live in it.

[sgtsabai]

If one thinks that there is not smoldering dissatisfaction in the NE, and especially in Udon area among Thais and expats you are living in a bubble world. Nong Khai same. As I said, I don't believe I know any red shirts, and certainly not active past or present red shirts. No, politics, especially those that might be considered anti junta are not publicly discussed, that will get one into re-education camp or if you are farang maybe after re-education a nice little stamp in your passport and a get out, NOW! Politics were/are barely discussed in hushed tones in my house and very seldom at that. While I am quite outspoken about the long misguided right wing road the US has taken since the Reagan regime I'm not about Thai politics. Discretion is the better part of valor. Most Thais I know are reluctant to discuss their political feelings, and I don't push. Still, with patience, the info trickles out.

[robblok]

No Rob, why was Martial Law maintained and replaced with article 44?

One of the main reasons was that there was still "unrest" coming from a certain Region.

There's enough articles published by Thai Visa from the Nation about the juntas claims of unrest in the North East.

Wasn't there a promise to hold elections sooner, rather than later, but this was canned with " still concerns about national security"

Bloody right there's concerns, it was the same concerns that dismissed the Erawan bombing as a "grudge" but the fact it was carried out by foreigners is a national security concern.

Just who was it here in this very forum, that was linking this bombing to the red shirts right from the get go.

Who in Govenment stated pretty much within days that this was an internal political issue?

Which former Police chief has stated that there's links to the red shirts in their perfectly concluded case?

These are not coming from Reuters or Thai Visa, they are coming from Govenment officials Rob, the press are then reporting what is being fed to them.

It's simple, if Ginjag is correct, and that its a load of crap and that the North East is as calm as a pond, lift article 44, lift martial law country wide, and return everything as it was prior to the coup.

I will bet you that's never going to happen anytime soon.

Unrest is under control because the army is on top of it. The PTP and the redshirts are under control. Do i like all the new laws no.. Do i like the red shirts not causing trouble yes. Do I think they would cause trouble if the army would not keep a tight lit on them. YES. I guess we see different things, its quiet because the army is on top of things.

The bombing could be linked to the red shirts, the guy Oat is a connection, unless he is just a hired hand (quite possible). Personally I see the connection. But I don't see this as a red plan or something, just a connection that is all.

To be honest, i have not had any problems with that article, what is your beef with it ? how did it change your life ?

Sorry I just don't trust the reds, they caused too much trouble and without the army they would do so again. Once they get paid they would be at it again doing the bidding of their Master. The only reason they don't is the strong army. That does not mean it can't be quiet in the NE, it might well be. But is it quiet because of the army or because they really don't want to cause trouble. That is something we both cant prove.

I hope the whole constitution thing is done fast and that it will be a good one that can control the next government but at the same time does not give the army too much power. (balance is needed). But as far as governments concerned this is the least bad one. (though my support for them is decreasing as I see more stupid things done by them, but it will take a while before I think the PTP is any better)

[z42]

Something is gonna have to give. The junta did some good when they first "took over" but lately they've completely started to take the pi$$ and the people who are getting trampled are the little people.

It seems like Thailand has no white knight who could (or would) save it from the abyss. The country just seemingly gets milked relentlessly by anybody who has even the smallest window of opportunity to do so. Very sad. There will be some dark times ahead before it can be determined what it'll come out looking like in the future